Travails of a stateless Thai-born university graduate

[Bullie]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Could you tell me the procedure , as I would like to do the same . 

 

Get confirmation that he is enrolled in a Thai school,  copy of the ID card from the child, front and back (my son hold a pink ID card starting with the number 7), copy ID card from the mother, front and back (pink card starting with a 6 2301 64 etc) and copy tabian ban from mother and child (1 copy each)  copy from first registration of mother in the Ampur (when she came to Thailand), the birth certificate of the child and a copy of my passport. Take all this to the Apur, and they will give it a go. It all has to be Bangkok-approved though, so I am not holding my breath.

[Bullie]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

That wouldnt be legal though .

Also, there may be no records of her being Burmese (in Burma) , so they wouldnt "register" her there 

Her Parents may have been born in Thailand .

Yes, it would definitely be legal. Any person on earth has the right (in principle) to return to the place where he or she was born. And of course there would be a register, because her father was a MYANMAR MIGRANT.  Maybe next time you read the original article first??

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, Bullie said:

Yes, it would definitely be legal. Any person on earth has the right (in principle) to return to the place where he or she was born. And of course there would be a register, because her father was a MYANMAR MIGRANT.  Maybe next time you read the original article first??

 

   She was born in Thailand , besides, it would still be illegal to cross the border without going through immigration .

   As her Father would have been born 40-50 years ago , there may be no records of his existence in Burma

[sanemax]

36 minutes ago, Bullie said:

Alternatively she can apply to a position abroad, and apply for a " laissez-passer", which the Thai government is obliged to give due to international law.

  " Laissez passer" is a travel document issued by the U.N. , the Thai Gov are not legally obliged to issue her with one, actually, they cannot issue her with one, let alone be obliged to

[sanemax]

56 minutes ago, Bullie said:

Yes you are. My son, 7 years old, Dutch and Cambodian, born in Thailand is currently applying for Thai citizenship. See the Speech on januari 1, 2017,  by the government.

I did hear that speech .

But did the Thai Government actually change the law to allow people who were born in Thailand , who do not have a Thai parents , to become Thai citizens .

Was it just a speech, or did the law get changed ?

[Mook23]

1 hour ago, Briggsy said:

Please read the story again. Her mother does not hold Thai citizenship.

Indeed. She is a shan without thai citizenship living (born) in thailand. Same as there are thai born in southern burma without thai nationality. The borderlands are like that. Mon karen shan etc can be born in thailand and going to school here without being granted FULL citizenship. If the girl marries a thai man their children will be thai. 

Anyway the argument she can go to myanmar is idiotic as she is not burmese citizen either. she is STATELESS but im sure there are ways for her, taking time, to get thai citizenship.

My ladyfriend was granted thai citizenship although she was born near myeik, in a thai family, in myanmar. But it took time and loads of red tape.

[Bullie]

19 minutes ago, sanemax said:

  " Laissez passer" is a travel document issued by the U.N. , the Thai Gov are not legally obliged to issue her with one, actually, they cannot issue her with one, let alone be obliged to

Sir, you are mincing words. Hails to the chief. Thailand often ACKNOWLEDGES UN issued Laisser Passer. Happy now?

[Bullie]

7 minutes ago, Mook23 said:

Indeed. She is a shan without thai citizenship living (born) in thailand. Same as there are thai born in southern burma without thai nationality. The borderlands are like that. Mon karen shan etc can be born in thailand and going to school here without being granted FULL citizenship. If the girl marries a thai man their children will be thai. 

Anyway the argument she can go to myanmar is idiotic as she is not burmese citizen either. she is STATELESS but im sure there are ways for her, taking time, to get thai citizenship.

My ladyfriend was granted thai citizenship although she was born near myeik, in a thai family, in myanmar. But it took time and loads of red tape.

I prefer not to be called an idiot, sir. She can become a burmese citizen in THE SAME WAY that your ladyfriend became a  thai citizen. Because, simply, she was born in a Myanmar family in Thailand. Not, really, difficult, at, all. It did exactly that with my (stateless) Cambodian son in Cambodia.

[Bullie]

14 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I did hear that speech .

But did the Thai Government actually change the law to allow people who were born in Thailand , who do not have a Thai parents , to become Thai citizens .

Was it just a speech, or did the law get changed ?

My family is at the very verge of finding that out, we are the first in the province of Trat to apply. The Amphur thinks we stand a good chance. If it was just a speech, they would have turned us down already. Tomorrow we go to deliver the last information (passport photo's of our son), and then it gets sent of to Bangkok.

[Mook23]

10 minutes ago, Bullie said:

I prefer not to be called an idiot, sir. She can become a burmese citizen in THE SAME WAY that your ladyfriend became a  thai citizen. Because, simply, she was born in a Myanmar family in Thailand. Not, really, difficult, at, all. It did exactly that with my (stateless) Cambodian son in Cambodia.

Not at all. Thay yai's arent all burmese citizens. There are shans in burma, thailand, china... like there are karens on thai side with thai id and karens on other side with myanmar id. my thai lady friend born near myeik came here as refugee at a very young age. Like this girl she went to school here, near the border, etc. This thai yai girl has no relationship with myanmar nor did her mother. Borderland people, minorities, should be entitled the same rights to the nation where they were brought up/born. There is no, zero, logic in giving her burmese nationality. 

[Bullie]

13 minutes ago, Mook23 said:

Not at all. Thay yai's arent all burmese citizens. There are shans in burma, thailand, china... like there are karens on thai side with thai id and karens on other side with myanmar id. my thai lady friend born near myeik came here as refugee at a very young age. Like this girl she went to school here, near the border, etc. This thai yai girl has no relationship with myanmar nor did her mother. Borderland people, minorities, should be entitled the same rights to the nation where they were brought up/born. There is no, zero, logic in giving her burmese nationality. 

Let me make this very, very, clear. HER FATHER IS A MYANMAR MIGRANT. In any, any country in the world this gives a child the right to her fathers nationality. I reluctantly accept your humble apologies, sir.

[Mook23]

Just now, Bullie said:

Let me make this very, very, clear. HER FATHER IS A MYANMAR MIGRANT. In any, any country in the world this gives a child the right to her fathers nationality. I reluctantly accept your humble apologies, sir.

Wrong again because she was never registered in myanmar and she never lived there and because her mother is stateless thai jay on thai side, most probably born here (not clear in article) which simply means shes a shan-thai who never bothered to get thai citizenship as things were less complicated back in the day and didnt care about voting or office job or abroad travels being a hilltribester. The mother has no thai *citizenship* but she surely has baht thai which means she is not illegal. And the girl will be granted thai citizenship if she applies and goes through the red tape and shows she was born here and went to school here and adapted thai cystoms... and knows the national anthem and loves the king ? 

[jdlancaster]

A Myanmar migrant doesn't necessarily have Burmese citizenship... they use a tiered citizenship system giving only some rights to some people.... Myanmar migrants are often also stateless hilltribe people... but the Myanmar option is rather pointless... a migrant worker who is long gone... it is more difficult for her to prove Burmese citizenship than  apply to become thai. Here in Chiang rai hilltribe people who don't have citizenship get citizenship after jumping through red tape. There is a legal process for them to do this.

 

http://www.unhcr.org/news/latest/2015/12/565db8939/thousands-stateless-people-given-nationality-thailand.html

 

The Thai government enacted laws in 2005 and 2008 in order to allow the hilltribe peoples to apply for citizenship. It is also a great initiative of Her Royal Highness Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn to help the hilltribe people gain citizenship.

[jdlancaster]

It should also be stated that the government has set a goal of citizenship for every stateless person in Thailand by 2024.... unlikely to be fully accomplished, but some progress will likely be made.

[DerekMarshall]

On 2/6/2017 at 4:36 PM, Bullie said:

Yes you are. My son, 7 years old, Dutch and Cambodian, born in Thailand is currently applying for Thai citizenship. See the Speech on januari 1, 2017,  by the government.

 

Jus Soli laws on Thailand is a very complicated issue and can be revoked by changes in law, which has happend many times. Even living abroad can cause loss of nationality based on 2008 changes to Just soli laws. 

 

 

[metisdead]

A flame post has been removed as well as a reply.

[piersbeckett]

On 06/02/2017 at 6:58 AM, thai3 said:

 

How is it 'racist'? both parents are Asian, the same race, one is a different nationality. Racist is banded about far too often when there is none

And that's if you believe that humans consist of more than one 'race'; a lot of PC, lefty, 'we're all the same' types believe that there is only the one human race as the difference in genetic make up in what used to be referred to as the three most prolific races of humans i.e. mongoloid, caueasoid and negroid is so negligible as not to constitute separate sub-species. 

 

So, presumably when the 'we're all the samers' accuse someone or some body/organisation of being 'racist' they mean in the old fashioned sense, that sense that they, themselves, believe is non-existent. 

 

Obviously what they are referring to is a dislike or even hatred of foreigners just because they're foreigners i.e. of a different tribe, village, country or continent, a deep rooted natural human tendency tapped into, historically, by leaders to persuade people to kill each other.

 

So, we need a new word like, 'regionist'.

[IMA_FARANG]

there was once a post on thaivisa of a man who grew up in the u.s. thinking he was a u.s citizen.

he went through u.s schools and then decided to join the u.s  amy to go to one of their  technical schools.

he was accepted for the army school if he presented his birth certificate to them.

then he discovered his parents who were thai had come to the u.s illegally and therefore he had no legal  birth certificate for him.

he spoke no thai as his parents did not want anyone to know they had come to the u.s. illegally.

he discovered that b his surprise he was not a u.s. citizen and for that reason the army would not allow him to joi them and attend their technical school.

pure nonsense as he was a good student and would have been  an outstanding recruit for the army.

the real question is, why would parents do that to a not yet 20 year old boy who though he was a legitimate u.s. citizen.

sometimes the law is a fool.

l.