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MSPs call for separate Scottish immigration deal over Brexit


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1 hour ago, Grouse said:

 

Wow! Great stuff!

 

Essential reading I would say!

 

The "huge" number of Brexiteers who ignore me should really read this! 

 

Especially the bit about people who voted remain being more likely to be pack animals following trends :biggrin:.

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4 hours ago, jpinx said:

There was - and still isn't - any physical wall along the UK -- Ireland border.  This is not Trumpsland ;)

While both the republic of Ireland (Eire) and Northern Ireland (the UK) were both members of the EU, there was no real need for a rigid border between the two countries, but with the UK out of The EU and Eire still in it, the issues of immigrants, freedom of movement and possible import duties come to the fore. Eire will have to accept freedom of movement of labour and the EU's open door policy on immigration so strict border controls will be needed to prevent those people merely travelling across to the UK.   

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2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

 

All new applicants to join the EU have to agree, among other criteria, to join the EUs economic, financial and political institutions and adopt EU law. This includes adopting the Euro and joining the Schengen Area.

 

Not all EU members use the Euro at present; but, except for the UK and Denmark, who negotiated opt outs when it was introduced, will have to as soon as their economic circumstances allow.

 

Not all EU members are in the Schengen Area at present; though most are, as are all the EEA sates and Switzerland. The UK and the RoI were able to opt out of Schengen at the very beginning, but again new EU members are expected to join, as are those states who are already EU members and didn't opt out when they had the chance.

 

Of course, there are those who argue that Scotland is already in the EU. Well, it is; in the same way that England, Wales and Northern Ireland are; because it is part of the UK. It is the UK which is a member, not the individual component parts.

 

Would the EU allow an independent Scotland to automatically be part of the EU? Doubtful, it would set a precedent which many countries, Spain because of the Basque region for example, would abhor and those countries would almost certainly veto it.

 

Would an independent Scotland be allowed to join on the same terms that the UK previoulsy had, especially regarding the Euro and Schengen? again, almost certainly to be vetoed because of the precedent such a move would create.

 

So, whatever happens to the Euro and the Schengen Area in the future, and the future of both is not certain, an independent Scotland would have to apply for membership and meet the Copenhagen Criteria.

All correct BUT I believe the EU will have to show some flexibility if only to avoid brittle fracture. 

 

You mention Spain; both Catalonia and the Basque area would remain strongly EU as would the rump of Spain. Somewhat different to the UK situation.

 

BTW, just watched Michael Moore's "Where to Invade Next". Great stuff.

 

Recommended for Brexiteers and Trumpites who would like to know more about Europe!

Edited by Grouse
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1 hour ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

While both the republic of Ireland (Eire) and Northern Ireland (the UK) were both members of the EU, there was no real need for a rigid border between the two countries, but with the UK out of The EU and Eire still in it, the issues of immigrants, freedom of movement and possible import duties come to the fore. Eire will have to accept freedom of movement of labour and the EU's open door policy on immigration so strict border controls will be needed to prevent those people merely travelling across to the UK.   

 

Ireland will not "have to accept freedom of movement of labour" post Brexit; it had to accept that when it joined the EEC, now the EU, in 1973; just as the UK and all other members did before and since.

 

What do you mean by "the EU's open door policy on immigration?"

 

If you mean there is an 'open door policy' for non EEA nationals; there isn't one! Just ask the many members here who have tried getting a Schengen visa for their Thai partner; even though as the qualifying family member of an EEA national obtaining that should be simple and straightforward!

 

Of course, once one has entered the Schengen Area then one can travel to all other Schengen states. As explained previously, the UK and the RoI are not a Schengen states, so to travel to one or both from a Schengen state the appropriate UK or RoI visa is required.

 

But anyone who enters the UK from the RoI without the appropriate visa, if one is required, would be in the UK illegally. That is the situation now and will be the situation after Brexit..

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1 hour ago, Grouse said:

All correct BUT I believe the EU will have to show some flexibility if only to avoid brittle fracture. 

 

You mention Spain; both Catalonia and the Basque area would remain strongly EU as would the rump of Spain. Somewhat different to the UK situation.

 

But it was the situation during the Scottish independence referendum.

 

Didn't stop Salmond and Sturgeon claiming that an independent Scotland would 'remain' in the EU, though!

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13 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I have gotten to that age where reading glasses are a must, but even with them on  I have no idea what I am looking at - is red least aggressive and blue most? I am confused about Russia sitting in the middle - they seem, to a man, to be war war...

Don't the SNP understand that England has been Scotland's most successful colony - and if the Stuarts hadn't screwed up a Stuart would have been on the UK Throne now. ;)

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12 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Especially the bit about people who voted remain being more likely to be pack animals following trends :biggrin:.

Nobody has replied to my request for analysis on age/ethnicity/education correlations posted earlier, so I can only assume that I am correct.  Older age-groups do not have the education that youngsters have, now that the standards have been lowered, and foreign educational qualifications are not recognised much.  The net result of this is a vast skew in those much-vaunted statistics showing the clever youngsters mostly voting to remain.

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2 hours ago, jpinx said:

Don't the SNP understand that England has been Scotland's most successful colony 

That makes me think of the Kevin Spacey line in The Usual Suspects, "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

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19 hours ago, 7by7 said:

I'm not sure I believe that; do you have the source?

Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing To Fight A War For Their Country

Map created by reddit user Spartharios

 

 

The map above shows the percentage of residents in various European countries who are willing to fight and go to war for their country.

Full results below:

 

From high to low, these are the percentages by country:

  • 74% – Finland
  • 73% – Turkey
  • 62% – Ukraine
  • 59% – Russia
  • 58% – Kosovo
  • 55% – Bosnia and Herzegovina
  • 55% – Sweden
  • 54% – Greece
  • 47% – Poland
  • 46% – Serbia
  • 41% – Latvia
  • 39% – Switzerland
  • 38% – Ireland
  • 38% – Macedonia
  • 38% – Romania
  • 37% – Denmark
  • 29% – France
  • 28% – Portugal
  • 27% – United Kingdom
  • 26% – Iceland
  • 25% – Bulgaria
  • 23% – Czech Republic
  • 21% – Austria
  • 21% – Spain
  • 20% – Italy
  • 19% – Belgium
  • 18% – Germany
  • 15% – The Netherlands

The results are from a 2015 WIN/Gallup International global survey. The sample size and methodology was as follows:

A total of 62,398 persons were interviewed globally. In each country a representative sample of around 1000 men and women was interviewed either face to face (30 countries; n=32258), via telephone (12 countries; n=9784) or online (22 countries; n=20356). Details are attached. The field work was conducted during September 2014 – December 2014. The margin of error for the survey is between 2.14 and 4.45 +3-5% at 95% confidence level.

Europe is the continent with the fewest people willing to fight a war for their country. Globally, an average of 61% of respondents in 64 countries said they would. Morocco (94%), Fiji (94%), Pakistan (89%), Vietnam (89%) and Bangladesh (86%) had the highest percentage willing to fight.

The country with the fewest people willing to go to war was Japan, with just 11% of respondents saying they would fight.

 

Since World War Two, Europe has been relatively peaceful with major exceptions of the Yugoslav Wars in the 1990s and various political suppressions during the Cold War. However, the 19th century was also a relatively peaceful time for Europe that ended with the start of World War I.

For more on European wars and conflict have a look at the following books:

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