"Double" charging of foreign tourists is killing our business, say Krabi long tail boat operators

[Matt96]

2 minutes ago, phycokiller said:

so everyone here in in favor of free trade. thats good

no. they are in favor of the idea that Thailand owe's them just because they want it.

[jdf2231]

2 minutes ago, Matt96 said:

no. you did not pay more. but your friend paid less. because he is a Thai citizen and you are not. He is teh co owner of Muang Thai. and you are not. why it's so hard to accept?

Well, there is differential pricing for the same thing. If they really needed the extra 270 THB (300-30), charge everyone 40 THB... lol. Why charge 5% of your visitors 10x when you can charge 100% of the visitors 10 baht more. No one complains at the end of the day.

[chrissables]

7 minutes ago, Matt96 said:

no. you did not pay more. but your friend paid less. because he is a Thai citizen and you are not. He is teh co owner of Muang Thai. and you are not. why it's so hard to accept?

You really are showing your ignorance now. It is a private company, so his Thai friend did pay less due to being a co owner. 

 

Keep it up! You are so funny.

[sahibji]

1 minute ago, Matt96 said:

and they will be kicked out of business on the next day. because they broke the regulation.

 

why don't you show an example of "ignoring officials" by  entering Thailand without visa, for example?  they are money grabbers! why do you have to pay for visa - you are entitled to enter everywhere for free!

not quite true. many countries are charging visa fee.

 

Just now, jdf2231 said:

Well, there is differential pricing for the same thing. If they really needed the extra 270 THB (300-30), charge everyone 40 THB... lol. Why charge 5% of your visitors 10x when you can charge 100% of the visitors 10 baht more. No one complains at the end of the day.

that is far more sensible.

[phuketlive]

It happens to thai people too.

 

A thai girl told me one day, she sent her son to buy sum tam. She lives in an esan village.

 

Next day, she went to buy sum tam herself at the same shop but it was more expensive than what her son paid the day before.

She learned that people knew she was living with a farang so charged her more for what she orders.

 

So she has to send her son to buy food there to pay the normal price...

 

Even with each others, they are like this.

What a shame.

[anotheruser]

 lol This is funny on many levels. Something strange is afoot when transport mafias of any kind are defending the best interest of Farang. National parks charging ten times the local rate to enter seems to be in conflict with the long tails who would basically do the same thing if they know they can get away with it. 

 

I am sure they are genuinely concerned that we are being over charged rather than deeply disturbed they can no longer make easy money fleecing us themselves. On behalf of Farang from all over the planet let me extend my sincere gratitude to these magnanimous long tail operators. Can you imagine what a conversation between a boat driver and a tuk tuk driver would go like? 

 

Boat driver at the dock when tuk tuk arrives: " You ripped the passenger off so badly how am I supposed to make a living?" 

 

 

[munchlet]

5 minutes ago, Matt96 said:

and they will be kicked out of business on the next day. because they broke the regulation.

 

why don't you show an example of "ignoring officials" by  entering Thailand without visa, for example?  they are money grabbers! why do you have to pay for visa - you are entitled to enter everywhere for free!

Do you negotiate with the police when they stop you? Or do you just pay what they ask, I know what most self respecting Thais and Farangs do not pay what is asked. You point about immigration is farcical, that is the one bit of the Thai civil service, that at the point of entry at least, really does work, after you are in that's when the fun (and the negotiations) start.....

Edited February 10, 2017 by munchlet
grammar

[Arandora]

1 hour ago, Familyaffairs said:

You can call it whatever, but it is called racial discrimination, unlawful under Thai law, and other countries should apply the same to Thai visitors to teach them a lesson of how it feels.to pay 10 x more than others, and if they think it is justified.

It is not racial discrimination. It is discrimination between Thai nationals, visitors and non-Thai residents irrespective of race, colour or creed. 

It is dual pricing and exists in different forms in many countries. I'm a UK pensioner on a decent pension, more than those less fortunate than me (and there are millions in the U.K. Workforce) who earn less in full time employment. Yet I can get discounts on attractions, entry fees, buses (even free on some!) compared to UK residents and visitors. 

However, the dual pricing system has in the past been used corruptly and its current application is tainted with that reputation. 

Solution? Not me. I avoid on principle and use my Thai Driving Licence where I swallow my principles! ?

[Matt96]

14 minutes ago, chrissables said:

Did i say it did?

 

What does mean mean Thailand as a country should factor this into it's pricing.

 

Except for people like you who seem to like paying 10 fold prices and support the idea. If you actually went to some of the National Parks, you would see, they are not even worth the Thai price. 

 

Phi Phi Island were taking the park fees and pocketing it. Is that alright in your warped thinking?

"Thailand as a country should factor this into it's pricing."

may I ask you, who you think you are to tell an independent nation what it should and should not do?

 

"they are not even worth the Thai price. " cool! so what's a problem! just don't go there. seems like Thailand will servunve without having you as a visitor. lol

"Phi Phi Island were taking the park fees and pocketing it. Is that alright in your warped thinking?" if some government officials were pocketing something -it's an issue for Thai citizen, not for a foreigner. it's none of your business where your fee will go. you have a simple choice - pay and go or not pay and stay at home. deal  with it without whining that Thais owe you something.

 

[darksidedog]

3 hours ago, heybuz said:

Had the same problem in pattaya years ago, the cost did not bother me but when they charged my then wife 50 bht and me 200 i said no on principal.

I agree. I first ran into dual pricing in India. Because I was working there and paying tax, I was able to pay the same as locals, but I would refuse to go in anywhere that had the policy.

The Thai constitution says that all people should be treated equally, regardless of race, religion or origin.

So charging foreigners extra flies in the face of the most basic law of the land.

I don't see foreigners in London being charged extra to use the tube, the screams of outrage would be audible here if it were the case.

Dual pricing is a rip off and fundamentally wrong, regardless of if it is affordable or not..

Edited February 10, 2017 by darksidedog

[crazygreg44]

1 hour ago, Matt96 said:

and it's perfectly reasonable. Thai society exists to make Thai people happy, not foreigners.

 

and foreigners will whine a bit and accept it. and those who can't afford 400 baht fee - who in Thailand needs them? anyway they are not going to spend significant amount of money -just cheap beer, cheap guesthouse and a cheap whore.

 

Tourist business exists to make money, not to make foreigners happy. it's not charity.

so you think it is fully justified to charge a holidaying family of four (father, mother, son & daughter) four times 1600 Baht park fee, along with the longtail boat price for the 4 islands trip of 1200 THB per person ?  No wonder they will think twice before allowing 6400 THB being pulled out of their noses for a half days trip

 

It's not only the park fees . . the longtail boat operators are demanding absolutely ridiculous prices for these trips

 

this story is about greed meeting more greed, enough said

Edited February 10, 2017 by crazygreg44

[hotchilli]

How about reducing it to the same price as every Thai pays....

It's a racist act pure & simple....

 

[phuketlive]

What is funny in this story is just that long tail boats found people who are greedier than them. haha

 

As long tail boat over charge farangs too.

 

Greedier might not be the right word, more stupid is probably more appropriate.

[Matt96]

1 minute ago, munchlet said:

Do you negotiate with the police when they stop you? Or do you just pay what they ask, I know what most self respecting Thais and Farangs do not pay what is asked. You point about immigration is farcical, that is the one bit of the Thai civil service, that at the point of entry at least, really does work, after you are in that's when the fun (and the negotiations) start.....

I dont negotiate anything because I get use to not shit where I live. That's why I don't encourage Thai police officers for taking bribes.

 

benefit for the country is more important for me than saving 200 baht by paying a bribe.

 

"after you are in that's when the fun (and the negotiations) start" oh yeah, you politely smile while asking to be let in the country and them take part in eroding the system by bribes. for your own small benefit. the system  which was made by people who kindly let you in.

 

That's why Thailand does not want people like you to be a citizen.

[anotheruser]

Just now, Arandora said:

It is not racial discrimination. It is discrimination between Thai nationals, visitors and non-Thai residents irrespective of race, colour or creed. 

It is dual pricing and exists in different forms in many countries. I'm a UK pensioner on a decent pension, more than those less fortunate than me (and there are millions in the U.K. Workforce) who earn less in full time employment. Yet I can get discounts on attractions, entry fees, buses (even free on some!) compared to UK residents and visitors. 

However, the dual pricing system has in the past been used corruptly and its current application is tainted with that reputation. 

Solution? Not me. I avoid on principle and use my Thai Driving Licence where I swallow my principles! ?

 

okay we are going to do this conversation again... I have no problem with dual pricing as you say other countries also do this. The issue for me with Thailand is the amount they charge. In the USa if you use a state park and are not a state resident you generally pay 1.5 or 2 times what a state resident does. 

 

400 Baht is more than a days wage in Thailand. Minimum wage in the USA is about 6 bucks an hour. So imagine a park charging more than $60 a day per person to enter a park. People would be up in arms.

 

Anyway that is just my take on it that the price is simply too high and it seems the boat operators are beginning to notice as many people are voting with their wallets. On the bright side with how little resources are put into caring for the parks from this fees the parks would do better with less people visiting them anyway.

 

If you actually care about Thailand's parks do them a favor and simply not visit them.

[anotheruser]

4 minutes ago, Matt96 said:

"Thailand as a country should factor this into it's pricing."

may I ask you, who you think you are to tell an independent nation what it should and should not do?

 

"they are not even worth the Thai price. " cool! so what's a problem! just don't go there. seems like Thailand will servunve without having you as a visitor. lol

"Phi Phi Island were taking the park fees and pocketing it. Is that alright in your warped thinking?" if some government officials were pocketing something -it's an issue for Thai citizen, not for a foreigner. it's none of your business where your fee will go. you have a simple choice - pay and go or not pay and stay at home. deal  with it without whining that Thais owe you something.

 

 

Actually the entire point of this article is that people are having trouble making a living with out visitors. For many backpackers 400 Baht a day isn't realistic. 

[Bluespunk]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

They think that reducing the fees to 200 for adults and 100 for children would be reasonable and would lead to the return of the tourists.

I don't.

 

Same price for all please.

[anotheruser]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

I don't.

 

Same price for all please.

 

Add transparency to what these fees actually pay for while you are at it. 

[Matt96]

1 minute ago, crazygreg44 said:

so you think it is fully justified to charge a holidaying family of four (father, mother, son & daughter) four times 1600 Baht park fee, along with the longtail boat price for the 4 islands trip of 1200 THB per person ?  No wonder they will think twice before allowing 6400 THB being pulled out of their noses for a half days trip

 

It's not only the park fees . . the longtail boat operators are demanding absolutely ridiculous prices for these trips

yes. it's fully justified. a good costs as much as it's possible to sell for.

and as we see from statistics there are plenty of people who are eager to pay this money. and sure there will be many cheap Charlies who truly believe that other people, countries, nations owe them, whining about that.

 

some nations have oil as a resource. they sell it. some have nature.

 

why don't you go to Saudi Arabia and tell them how unfair it is to sell oil to foreign buyers much more expensive than gasoline for their citizen?

[Matt96]

4 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

okay we are going to do this conversation again... I have no problem with dual pricing as you say other countries also do this. The issue for me with Thailand is the amount they charge. In the USa if you use a state park and are not a state resident you generally pay 1.5 or 2 times what a state resident does. 

 

400 Baht is more than a days wage in Thailand. Minimum wage in the USA is about 6 bucks an hour. So imagine a park charging more than $60 a day per person to enter a park. People would be up in arms.

 

Anyway that is just my take on it that the price is simply too high and it seems the boat operators are beginning to notice as many people are voting with their wallets. On the bright side with how little resources are put into caring for the parks from this fees the parks would do better with less people visiting them anyway.

 

If you actually care about Thailand's parks do them a favor and simply not visit them.

some people think that Maserati car is overpriced. and others just buy it and enjoy.

[anotheruser]

Just now, Matt96 said:

yes. it's fully justified. a good costs as much as it's possible to sell for.

and as we see from statistics there are plenty of people who are eager to pay this money. and sure there will be many cheap Charlies who truly believe that other people, countries, nations owe them, whining about that.

 

some nations have oil as a resource. they sell it. some have nature.

 

why don't you go to Saudi Arabia and tell them how unfair it is to sell oil to foreign buyers much more expensive than gasoline for their citizen?

 

When long tail operators who are pretty famous for overcharging foreigners themselves begin to complain the price is too much you might take notice.

[GarryP]

1 minute ago, Matt96 said:

yes. it's fully justified. a good costs as much as it's possible to sell for.

and as we see from statistics there are plenty of people who are eager to pay this money. and sure there will be many cheap Charlies who truly believe that other people, countries, nations owe them, whining about that.

 

some nations have oil as a resource. they sell it. some have nature.

 

why don't you go to Saudi Arabia and tell them how unfair it is to sell oil to foreign buyers much more expensive than gasoline for their citizen?

So if I bought gasoline in Saudi for my car, I would have to pay more for it than the locals? Something tells me you are lacking in logic. 

[munchlet]

5 minutes ago, Matt96 said:

I dont negotiate anything because I get use to not shit where I live. That's why I don't encourage Thai police officers for taking bribes.

 

benefit for the country is more important for me than saving 200 baht by paying a bribe.

 

"after you are in that's when the fun (and the negotiations) start" oh yeah, you politely smile while asking to be let in the country and them take part in eroding the system by bribes. for your own small benefit. the system  which was made by people who kindly let you in.

 

That's why Thailand does not want people like you to be a citizen.

When they start putting their cuddly Poo Yai in jail, I may reconsider my position, but if, I paid nothing here, nothing gets done here, if I pay what they ask, I will have empty pockets very quickly, when in Rome do as the Romans do. When they show an example and clean up their act at  the very top, then we will be able to talk about morality and country benefits.  Until then? Just look at the squirming about the Rolls Royce bribes, every one knows who S and G are, but no one wants to go after them.......another farce.

[Matt96]

4 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

Actually the entire point of this article is that people are having trouble making a living with out visitors. For many backpackers 400 Baht a day isn't realistic. 

no. people are having troubles because too many of them exploit the nature. they believe that if the price will be lower there profit will rise

1)it's not true

2) it will damage the nature (which attracts customers) much more.

 

This is a small group of people comparing to the amount of all boat drivers. where is the proof that the majority thinks the same?

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

4 minutes ago, Matt96 said:

yes. it's fully justified. a good costs as much as it's possible to sell for.

and as we see from statistics there are plenty of people who are eager to pay this money. and sure there will be many cheap Charlies who truly believe that other people, countries, nations owe them, whining about that.

 

some nations have oil as a resource. they sell it. some have nature.

 

why don't you go to Saudi Arabia and tell them how unfair it is to sell oil to foreign buyers much more expensive than gasoline for their citizen?

If you buy fuel  within Saudi Arabia its the same price for foreigners as it is for nationals

[anotheruser]

Just now, Matt96 said:

no. people are having troubles because too many of them exploit the nature. they believe that if the price will be lower there profit will rise

1)it's not true

2) it will damage the nature (which attracts customers) much more.

 

This is a small group of people comparing to the amount of all boat drivers. where is the proof that the majority thinks the same?

 

Did you bother to read the article which states that long tail boat drivers are observing that people are not using their services and attribute this to the entry fee for the park being excessive?

[Arandora]

7 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

okay we are going to do this conversation again... I have no problem with dual pricing as you say other countries also do this. The issue for me with Thailand is the amount they charge. In the USa if you use a state park and are not a state resident you generally pay 1.5 or 2 times what a state resident does. 

 

400 Baht is more than a days wage in Thailand. Minimum wage in the USA is about 6 bucks an hour. So imagine a park charging more than $60 a day per person to enter a park. People would be up in arms.

 

Anyway that is just my take on it that the price is simply too high and it seems the boat operators are beginning to notice as many people are voting with their wallets. On the bright side with how little resources are put into caring for the parks from this fees the parks would do better with less people visiting them anyway.

 

If you actually care about Thailand's parks do them a favor and simply not visit them.

I didn't say I did not agree with dual pricing in Thailand, merely that is us not racial discrimination. 

I agree that the current rates are too high for visitor families with children but it could be argued that on an income basis they are high for a local family with children. 

The perfect solution for visitors? Free to all. Now, who pays and how? 

[Matt96]

2 minutes ago, GarryP said:

So if I bought gasoline in Saudi for my car, I would have to pay more for it than the locals? Something tells me you are lacking in logic. 

yes! citizen of Saudi Arabia have special cards for gasoline which  foreigners can't get.

Also in Saudi Arabia women can't drive a car and can't work if they are not married.

why don't you go to fight with injustice there? may be because they will cut your head for telling them how to live?

[hotchilli]

21 minutes ago, Arandora said:

It is not racial discrimination. It is discrimination between Thai nationals, visitors and non-Thai residents irrespective of race, colour or creed. 

It is dual pricing and exists in different forms in many countries. I'm a UK pensioner on a decent pension, more than those less fortunate than me (and there are millions in the U.K. Workforce) who earn less in full time employment. Yet I can get discounts on attractions, entry fees, buses (even free on some!) compared to UK residents and visitors. 

However, the dual pricing system has in the past been used corruptly and its current application is tainted with that reputation. 

Solution? Not me. I avoid on principle and use my Thai Driving Licence where I swallow my principles! ?

Racism is discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity.

[anotheruser]

Just now, Arandora said:

I didn't say I did not agree with dual pricing in Thailand, merely that is us not racial discrimination. 

I agree that the current rates are too high for visitor families with children but it could be argued that on an income basis they are high for a local family with children. 

The perfect solution for visitors? Free to all. Now, who pays and how? 

 

Sure that is a good question. To determine a fair way of paying we would need to see where these fees go... You could also charge based upon impact to the park and who does more damage. I am sure the Thais would not come out favorably if we charged in that way. 

 

Show where all of these fees go and they may be able to build up some good will about paying it. It isn't just the price that people are unhappy with but the over all condition of the parks that charge these fees. I get the impression when i enter some of these places that my money will be used to buy petrol for the park warden's chain saw.