UK state pension increases: how is the year calculated?

[AbeSurd]

Apparently you need to be in the UK for 182 days a year to qualify for state pension increases.

How is the year calculated? I can't find this info on the internet. I can think of three alternatives:

(1) the anniversary of when you first took the pension
(2) the tax year
(3) the calendar year

I'd guess it's (1). Anyone know?

Thanks.

[rickp]

Although (1) seems logical, if you are a pensioner liable to pay UK income tax, that will be calculated on residency status, which is based on the tax year. So maybe it's (2). I'm also having difficulty finding the info online. It's probably easier to phone the International Pensions Centre.

[meatboy]

pension increase used to be based on the RPI.[RETAIL PRICE INDEX] now i am not sure it might be the CBI.PRICE INDEX.

[DGS1244]

Actually it is not as easy as that, if you return to the UK then they will increase your pension to the correct amount, if you then leave within three months your pension will return to what it was before you arrived and they also can ask for the amount of increase to be paid back. Does not depend upon tax year etc. only on your date of arrival back to the UK. The UK pension Webb site has more information.

[robertthebruce]

 

 

Tell them nothing, problem solved.

 

collect what we are due.......

 

 

[AbeSurd]

44 minutes ago, rickp said:

Although (1) seems logical, if you are a pensioner liable to pay UK income tax, that will be calculated on residency status, which is based on the tax year. So maybe it's (2). I'm also having difficulty finding the info online. It's probably easier to phone the International Pensions Centre.

Thanks. That's a good point re residency status and income tax.

 

I see now that pension increases seem to come in every year in April, so that would also indicate the tax year is how they look at this.

 

So, in as much as they use the 182 day (6 months) rule, with each April increase they would likely look at your time in the UK during previous tax years.

 

Needless to say I haven't yet reached state pension age. Am just trying to get myself prepared.

[Surasak]

I am sure you will find that any continuous stay of 182 stay will entitle you to the pension increase. I also believe an increase can be claimed for any length of stay over 28 days, but will stop on leaving the UK. What that means is the increase may be paid only for the time you spend in the UK, but will revert to the original amount on leaving.It is also up to you to inform the DWP of your time of arrival and departure. None of this is proven fact, so should be checked via the international pensions office. What I can say is, I claimed the increase for 5 weeks back in 2015 with no problems, other than informing the DWP of the dates I was resident.

[Deepinthailand]

182 days in the pit to qualify for a few extra pounds no thank you. I'll take whatever I get for not living there.

[lungbing]

An increase to the current rate is payable after a stay of one day, ie if you are there for a one month holiday you get the current rate for that month.  But it reverts when you leave.  You must  tell Newcastle the dates of course.

[dabhand]

59 minutes ago, lungbing said:

An increase to the current rate is payable after a stay of one day, ie if you are there for a one month holiday you get the current rate for that month.  But it reverts when you leave.  You must  tell Newcastle the dates of course.

Any idea if that also apply for visits to EU countries (for now, anyway) and other non-frozen locations such as the Philippines?

[Jonmarleesco]

In the first place, residency is no longer calculated on the number of days per year you spend in the U.K. In the second, I'm far from sure that it would have any influence on the annual pension increase, other than that you would receive a pro-rata increase for any time spent in the U.K., or in any country that has a 'reciprocal' agreement with the U.K. - including, surprisingly, the Philippines.

 

FTR, the U.K. pension year is the same as the tax year: 6th April to 5th April.

[Jonmarleesco]

3 hours ago, Surasak said:

I am sure you will find that any continuous stay of 182 stay will entitle you to the pension increase. I also believe an increase can be claimed for any length of stay over 28 days, but will stop on leaving the UK. What that means is the increase may be paid only for the time you spend in the UK, but will revert to the original amount on leaving.It is also up to you to inform the DWP of your time of arrival and departure. None of this is proven fact, so should be checked via the international pensions office. What I can say is, I claimed the increase for 5 weeks back in 2015 with no problems, other than informing the DWP of the dates I was resident.

Any length of time, from one day on. You need to inform them within six months of your visit.

[Jonmarleesco]

5 hours ago, DGS1244 said:

Actually it is not as easy as that, if you return to the UK then they will increase your pension to the correct amount, if you then leave within three months your pension will return to what it was before you arrived and they also can ask for the amount of increase to be paid back. Does not depend upon tax year etc. only on your date of arrival back to the UK. The UK pension Webb site has more information.

Wrong. You are entitled to a pro-rata increase for time spent in the U.K., and in any country that has a reciprocal agreement with the U.K.

[Jonmarleesco]

5 hours ago, rickp said:

Although (1) seems logical, if you are a pensioner liable to pay UK income tax, that will be calculated on residency status, which is based on the tax year. So maybe it's (2). I'm also having difficulty finding the info online. It's probably easier to phone the International Pensions Centre.

You will be liable for tax on your pension after allowances, irrespective of your residence status, because the income is UK-sourced. 

Edited February 11, 2017 by Jonmarleesco

[Jonmarleesco]

5 hours ago, meatboy said:

pension increase used to be based on the RPI.[RETAIL PRICE INDEX] now i am not sure it might be the CBI.PRICE INDEX.

RPI, or 5.0%, which ever is the lower.

[HHTel]

You get pension increases in all the following countries,  BUT NOT THAILAND!

 

• Austria
• Belgium
• Bulgaria
• Croatia
• Cyprus
• Czech Republic
• Denmark
• Estonia
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Greece
• Hungary
• Iceland
• Ireland
• Italy
• Latvia
• Liechtenstein
• Lithuania
• Luxembourg
• Malta
• Netherlands
• Norway
• Poland
• Portugal
• Romania
• Slovakia
• Slovenia
• Spain
• Sweden

• Barbados
• Bermuda
• Bosnia-Herzegovina
• Jersey
• Guernsey
• the Isle of Man
• Israel
• Jamaica
• Kosovo
• Macedonia
• Mauritius
• Montenegro
• the Philippines
• Serbia
• Turkey
• USA

 

[peterpop]

I am not quite sure how it happened but after I informed the UK Government that I was married to a Thai Lady and that I was still in Thailand THEY informed me that the international Pension Service had FROZEN my pension.  Actually they did not use the word FROZEN.  They just told me that I had officially left the UK on 39:09:2008.  The unspoken actuality was that my pension is now frozen at that date.  

I have returned to UK many times since then and have always told the International Pension Service of the relevant dates and they have paid the current applicable UK rate.

I was told that if I stayed 6 months in UK it would be permanently upgraded.  True but only as long as you stay in UK.  Upon leaving it will revert to [in my case] the 2008 level.  To PERMANENTLY UPGRADE is almost impossible once they have made up their minds that you are an ex-pat.  You have to convince a committee that your return to uk was permanent.  That is, provide proof of quitting Thailand, selling house, cars, motorcycle, generally burning your boats.  In UK buying or renting on long lease a house, car, telephone, bank account and all very personal possessions repatriated. Then after a minimum of 6 months they will consider your case.  BUT they can rescind their decision if you subsequently return to Thailand, and they do not believe your reasons are genuine.

It matters not to the UK Government that this treatment of their pensioners is unfair and immoral.  There are no votes involved.  

[Farang99]

17 hours ago, rickp said:

Although (1) seems logical, if you are a pensioner liable to pay UK income tax, that will be calculated on residency status, which is based on the tax year. So maybe it's (2). I'm also having difficulty finding the info online. It's probably easier to phone the International Pensions Centre.

As far as I can tell your pension year starts from your birth date, as that stipulates when you qualify. Unless you are going to spend more than half the year in the UK your pension will be frozen at the value when you moved to Thailand.

 

[Deepinthailand]

8 minutes ago, Farang99 said:

As far as I can tell your pension year starts from your birth date, as that stipulates when you qualify. Unless you are going to spend more than half the year in the UK your pension will be frozen at the value when you moved to Thailand.

 

Interesting so if you move to Thailand before state pension age is it set at the rate of when you hit state pension age. That's of course if you ever do the change the goal posts so much.

[theoldgit]

The rate is set from when you actually claim your pension, my birthday is in March so I deferred my claim until the new rate kicked in the following month, it was frozen at the higher rate.
When you defer you obviously lose your payments in the interim period, though they do add a small amount to your base pension. 

[rickudon]

16 hours ago, Jonmarleesco said:

RPI, or 5.0%, which ever is the lower.

WRONG. State pension is upgraded on the triple lock system, which is the highest of Price inflation (currently RPI i think), average wage increases or 2.5%, whichever is the highest. Has been since 2010, but there are hints it may be scrapped soon.

 

Wish people didn't post the first thought which came into their head. Some company pensions use Jonmarlesco's formula.

[Farang99]

21 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

Interesting so if you move to Thailand before state pension age is it set at the rate of when you hit state pension age. That's of course if you ever do the change the goal posts so much.

Exactly. I moved here in 1998 but did not qualify for the pension until 2000, so that was the rate at which it remains frozen

[evadgib]

 

Edited February 13, 2017 by evadgib

[thai3]

12 hours ago, Farang99 said:

Exactly. I moved here in 1998 but did not qualify for the pension until 2000, so that was the rate at which it remains frozen

How much is that for comparison to what you would get now?

[dabhand]

37 minutes ago, thai3 said:

How much is that for comparison to what you would get now?

The attached document (pg 10) indicates it was £67.50 in 2000. Currently I believe it is £119.30, obviously this is under the old system and at the full basic rate. So, being frozen. means a reduction of over £50/week. Disgraceful.

 

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06762/SN06762.pdf

[Farang99]

10 hours ago, dabhand said:

The attached document (pg 10) indicates it was £67.50 in 2000. Currently I believe it is £119.30, obviously this is under the old system and at the full basic rate. So, being frozen. means a reduction of over £50/week. Disgraceful.

 

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06762/SN06762.pdf

There have been years of protest and legal challenges to this unfair treatment of expats, with absolutely no chance of success. No government could afford to put it right. It doesn't matter that we put no burden on the social or health services, and we paid the tax all our working lives, just as UK residents did. It is not a question of fairness - just money.

[thai3]

Yet they have the money to keep treating health tourists to the tune of millions a years foreign aid to nuclear power countries and even pop groups in Ethiopia. They should look after our own first before saying they cannot afford it.

Edited February 13, 2017 by thai3

[steve187]

On 2/11/2017 at 8:05 PM, Jonmarleesco said:

Any length of time, from one day on. You need to inform them within six months of your visit.

The increase for being in the UK , can not be backdated, inform them on day one.

[theoldgit]

On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 4:34 PM, steve187 said:

The increase for being in the UK , can not be backdated, inform them on day one.

I don't think you're required to tell them on day one, I've never done when I've informed them by telephone, and I've always been paid the full amount. I usually tell them a day or so after I arrived, and as I usually stopover in the EU on the way to the UK and when leaving, I include those dates in my claim. 
I've even claimed six months after I've returned to Thailand, and they paid that claim that claim as well, though I did have to say why I advised them after so long a period.

 

If you put in a written request for uprating, the guidelines say this

Please keep this form until the end of your present stay in the UK. Just before you leave fill in the attached reply slip and send back to us straight away. Out address is shown at the top of this form. Please tell us of any future visits to the UK or another country where annual increases are paid straight away, or at least one month after your arrival.

[evadgib]

There's an interesting article re 'going abroad' (ie from a 'frozen' to a 'non frozen' country but not necessarily UK) in the latest issue of 'Justice' from the ICBP...