Bangkok’s street food under threat from gentrification

[trogers]

44 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Like many other posters I have lived here for many years and enjoyed the street food and the food halls. Making the footpaths actually negotiable for pedestrians is indeed a fine idea, but keeping that in mind, street food and vendors do provide for local needs not just backpackers in tourist areas. Cheap food is essential if you work  six days a week in a factory for less than 100 dollars a month.

Many food halls are now charging so much rent and regulating prices that the vendors cannot make a profit and many now have few sellers and little choice.

The 'Middle Path" used to be  a Buddhist doctrine, but it seems to have been replaced with "Profit Rules".

What factories are still in Bangkok? Nearest ones are now at adjacent provinces of Pathumthani, Samut Sakorn and Samut Prakan.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

28 minutes ago, trogers said:

What factories are still in Bangkok? Nearest ones are now at adjacent provinces of Pathumthani, Samut Sakorn and Samut Prakan.

You don't know Bangkok very well....

You don't need to go far from the CBD into the near suburbs to find factories.

Check your facts, I am not talking about nailing together foreign cars or petrochemicals.

There are hundreds of small packaging and clothing manufacturers etc all in the metropolitan Bangkok area.

Just to add to what I said, not everyone works in a shopping mall, but how much do you imagine the car park boys get paid or the cleaners?

Edited February 13, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[MyFriend You]

I had to look up  "gentrification"  and hell no, I don't agree with it, street food is Bangkok's way of life...............how else will we get immune to jelly belly if we don't eat local food ???

[trogers]

4 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

You don't know Bangkok very well....

You don't need to go far from the CBD into the near suburbs to find factories.

Check your facts, I am not talking about nailing together foreign cars or petrochemicals.

There are hundreds of small packaging and clothing manufacturers etc all in the metropolitan Bangkok area.

Just to add to what I said, not everyone works in a shopping mall, but how much do you imagine the car park boys get paid or the cleaners?

Sorry to bust your concept bubble: these people you mentioned are either not Thai or not drawing only 100 USD a month.

 

My part time Thai maid cleaner is drawing over 18k a month, her husband a security guard at 16k and their daughter working in 7-11 at 13k. And they all stay in a rented apartment at Sukhumvit 22 paying 6k rent. They cook their own breakfast and dinner at home, because my maid told me so.

 

Even stay-in maids from neighbouring countries get 8k a month with free food and lodging. 100 USD a month? Did you come visiting here from Laos or Myanmar

[mca]

5 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I had to look up  "gentrification" 

Yeah I thought it meant walking around sporting a monocle and top hat whilst coming out with phrases like " Jolly good show old bean" and " He's a rotten bounder and unmitigated cad"

[LandOfWiles]

I doubt this is an end of street food as some have suggested above. More likely, vendors will have to find new homes but they won't need to move very far. I've seen this in my area where the construction of a new residential building is underway. A full market street has gone but most have found new homes nearby. It's not clear if they will move back once construction is complete. This market serves working and middle class Thais almost exclusively by the way, not backpackers, hookers and tuk tuk drivers. You have to wonder if some people know Bangkok beyond a few farang/tourist sois. 

 

Thai street food is excellent and one of the greatest pleasures for me as a resident here. I only recall one poor bowl of noodles out of the many that I've eaten and that was bought near a BTS station from a vendor that works from the early hours of the morning through to early morning. The broth was like the klong water plus MSG mixture described above. Thais will not eat poor quality food, so those vendors that can make a living in Thai residential areas are generally good. 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

16 hours ago, trogers said:

Sorry to bust your concept bubble: these people you mentioned are either not Thai or not drawing only 100 USD a month.

 

My part time Thai maid cleaner is drawing over 18k a month, her husband a security guard at 16k and their daughter working in 7-11 at 13k. And they all stay in a rented apartment at Sukhumvit 22 paying 6k rent. They cook their own breakfast and dinner at home, because my maid told me so.

 

Even stay-in maids from neighbouring countries get 8k a month with free food and lodging. 100 USD a month? Did you come visiting here from Laos or Myanmar

You didn't burst any bubble, I know, and there have been recent reports about the legal Thai factory workers not getting minimum wages here inside Bangkok area, that is ฿300 a day. I admit that works out to more than 100 USDs, I should have said under 175 (six days a week, average 26 days a month).

The two weekly (where my mistake was) pay slips I have seen show around ฿2,500 less deductions.

I'm not talking about sweatshops either, some well known international companies.

You concede there are many factories inside the Bangkok Metropolitan area now do you?

The people you are talking about must be very fortunate.

[trogers]

1 minute ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

You didn't burst any bubble, I know, and there have been recent reports about the legal Thai factory workers not getting minimum wages here inside Bangkok area, that is ฿300 a day. I admit that works out to more than 100 USDs, I should have said under 175 (six days a week, average 26 days a month).

The two weekly (where my mistake was) pay slips I have seen show around ฿2,500 less deductions.

I'm not talking about sweatshops either, some well known international companies.

You concede there are many factories inside the Bangkok Metropolitan area now do you?

The people you are talking about must be very fortunate.

Nothing to do with fortune. Lowly educated women can make much more than minimum wage as cleaners, if they so choose. Lots of newly completed condos and landed properties looking for them. It's more a status issue.

 

Also, lowly paid foreign workers in construction sites in Bangkok or factories in the surrounding provinces cannot even afford street food. I would imagine they would do the same as Thai workers in Singapore a couple of decades ago. They take turn to undertake chef duties to cook all 3 meals for the others. The workers packed lunch to their work places...

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

12 minutes ago, trogers said:

Nothing to do with fortune. Lowly educated women can make much more than minimum wage as cleaners, if they so choose. Lots of newly completed condos and landed properties looking for them. It's more a status issue.

 

Also, lowly paid foreign workers in construction sites in Bangkok or factories in the surrounding provinces cannot even afford street food. I would imagine they would do the same as Thai workers in Singapore a couple of decades ago. They take turn to undertake chef duties to cook all 3 meals for the others. The workers packed lunch to their work places...

Many construction sites I have seen the workers live on site in tin shack dormitories.

The "fortunate" ones that get jobs in high class condos and shopping malls down town may well get more money, but you have just admitted not everyone gets the jobs that are available in these higher paid sectors.

Have you seen any any slips?

[trogers]

1 minute ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Many construction sites I have seen the workers live on site in tin shack dormitories.

The "fortunate" ones that get jobs in high class condos and shopping malls down town may well get more money, but you have just admitted not everyone gets the jobs that are available in these higher paid sectors.

Have you seen any any slips?

The last time I have seen Thais staying in zinc sheets workers camp was a decade ago. Now, such workers are primarily from Myanmar or Cambodia.

 

Thais that are still working in this sector would be tradesmen and their assistants, being paid Bt500 or higher per day. Thais working in shopping malls may only get Bt320 per day excluding tips or commissions.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

49 minutes ago, trogers said:

The last time I have seen Thais staying in zinc sheets workers camp was a decade ago. Now, such workers are primarily from Myanmar or Cambodia.

 

Thais that are still working in this sector would be tradesmen and their assistants, being paid Bt500 or higher per day. Thais working in shopping malls may only get Bt320 per day excluding tips or commissions.

So, basically you agree with what I said and you have never seen a pay slip.

Only last year two tin shacks were put up in my soi to build extensions to buildings, and while many occupants would be from poor neighboring states not all of them were.

Getting back on subject, I think you get my drift: street food is an essential part of life for many Thais, not just for backpackers.

[trogers]

47 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

So, basically you agree with what I said and you have never seen a pay slip.

Only last year two tin shacks were put up in my soi to build extensions to buildings, and while many occupants would be from poor neighboring states not all of them were.

Getting back on subject, I think you get my drift: street food is an essential part of life for many Thais, not just for backpackers.

No. The existing shophouses in the city are capable of providing similarly priced food without polluting and congesting the footpaths, because volume of business per shophouse would increase multifolds.

 

The easing of footpaths to street stalls and carts was a populist move to appease a voter base.

[manarak]

2 hours ago, trogers said:

No. The existing shophouses in the city are capable of providing similarly priced food without polluting and congesting the footpaths, because volume of business per shophouse would increase multifolds.

 

The easing of footpaths to street stalls and carts was a populist move to appease a voter base.

I consider the stalls (food and non-food) to be an essential liberty in any society, especially in Thailand. I wish there were more in Europe.

 

On the other hand, I also consider that many stalls in Thailand are hampering other people's freedoms, such as the freedom of walking on a sidewalk or the freedom of being operate a brick & mortar shopfront.

Clearly, the stalls need regulation instead of a ban.

[smokie36]

A meal at Terminal 21 food court can be enjoyed for 35 Baht.

 

Lots of similar places have sprung up all over Bangkok.

 

Street food has simply moved into the aircon...which judging by the queues I see every day at 1030 at my local Central is what the locals want.

[SaintLouisBlues]

25 minutes ago, smokie36 said:

Street food has simply moved into the aircon...which judging by the queues I see every day at 1030 at my local Central is what the locals want.

But that's not what the tourists want to see. They want authentic!

[LandOfWiles]

30 minutes ago, smokie36 said:

A meal at Terminal 21 food court can be enjoyed for 35 Baht.

 

Lots of similar places have sprung up all over Bangkok.

 

Street food has simply moved into the aircon...which judging by the queues I see every day at 1030 at my local Central is what the locals want.

As someone who has had to travel a fair bit around Bangkok lately, I can tell you that street food is alive and well. 

 

Foods courts are great too but they are not new. I'd bet some vets on here were eating in food courts 20+ years ago. They have probably existed as long as shopping malls and supermarkets. If I'm shopping in Central then I would eat at the food court or at one of the restaurants. But I still mainly eat at street vendors and markets because they serve good food and they're right on my doorstep. Aircon is not such a big draw in the evening either when most Thais (in my area at least) take their food home with them.

[zorro1]

But that's not what the tourists want to see. They want authentic!

Real doller tourists don't slurp chicken soup at a road side stall. This is the domain for teachers the occasional back packer, street whores and taxi guys

T21 is packed with thais every day and seating is non existent 12 to 1pm. Thais still have access to cheap food so no damage done there

Now that the rats in the sewers are no longer receiving home delivery of food scraps they may just turn cannibal

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

[SaintLouisBlues]

11 minutes ago, zorro1 said:

Real doller tourists don't slurp chicken soup at a road side stall. 

They don't want to do it. They want to photograph other people doing it, usually "the locals" - hence the authenticity

[zorro1]

They don't want to do it. They want to photograph other people doing it, usually "the locals" - hence the authenticity

They loved feeding the elephants banana and taking selfies as well. Maybe they should bring them back.. You know to appease the tourists
Holding a city hostage and stopping progress just so farang can take happy snaps? That's just wrong on so many levels

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[smokie36]

7 hours ago, LandOfWiles said:

As someone who has had to travel a fair bit around Bangkok lately, I can tell you that street food is alive and well. 

 

Foods courts are great too but they are not new. I'd bet some vets on here were eating in food courts 20+ years ago. They have probably existed as long as shopping malls and supermarkets. If I'm shopping in Central then I would eat at the food court or at one of the restaurants. But I still mainly eat at street vendors and markets because they serve good food and they're right on my doorstep. Aircon is not such a big draw in the evening either when most Thais (in my area at least) take their food home with them.

 

I live a hop step and a pint from Asoke.

 

Thais in this area are less concerned with the loss of street food and more the loss of local Thai restaurants.

 

Of course there are still plenty of places to get food outside on Asoke particularly at lunchtime.

 

In the suburbs more food places open early evening to cater for workers returning home.

 

Nothing will really change in that respect.

 

I'm not particularly bothered either way as I can still eat for under 100 Baht.

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

It's not about tourists. The shop house rents are way out of the ability of street sellers to pay and keep their prices low. Some posters have got the understanding as to how it works, but others (trogers etc) are bogged down in the street food outside Nana and other tourist spots down town.

I've have eaten in food courts since the early 90s, fine for lunch but most close early. Opposite where I live now a in the daytime until early evening there are loads of food stalls on the sub soi. Later a small shop house opens a big street restaurant at about 6pm. It is in front of a building supplies shop which shuts at 5.30pm, in the parking/loading area on the sub soi. There is also a small covered take-away street food area, non of which close until 5am or so the same as the street restaurant. It is entirely used by local shift working people.

I only ever see the odd lost tourist, and a few guys with Thai wives shopping around here, and then only one or two in a month. There will be a BTS station near here soon so it's not that far out of town.

The pavements have been cleared of other sellers, but remain blocked by advertising signs, rubbish bins etc so walkers still have to step onto the busy road.

I've eaten street food for 30+ years here all over the country, without a problem.

 

 

[bkkcanuck8]

On 2/15/2017 at 5:06 AM, manarak said:

such as the freedom of walking on a sidewalk or the freedom of being operate a brick & mortar shopfront.

Clearly, the stalls need regulation instead of a ban.

On my soi the food vendors operate in a symbiotic relationship with the brick and mortar places.  The Isan food near the front pays the business that it sits in front - for water, and is allowed to operate (probably for rent) in front of the business until the business opens (at 5pm).  Another place pays to be allowed to plug in and get electricity (obviously there is a relationship there).  The food vendor I frequent was allowed to operate in front of a business until it opened (it had to move down a bit after the place was sold and opened earlier).  I would not be surprised to find all of the vendors on my street have some financial arrangement to use the space in front.....  It is a way of earning a bit more money when you would be earning nothing.  If a business was dead set against a vendor who was interfering with business.... they would be gone (I know certain places do not allow it).

Edited February 18, 2017 by bkkcanuck8

[rosst]

On 2/13/2017 at 6:27 AM, trogers said:

You meaning food in Bangkok will get cleaner and healthier?

 

No more throwing of food scraps and gravy down street drains and breeding rats and roaches that may visit the storage and surfaces of cooking and eating utensils?

 

No more blasts of street dirt and traffic fumes to enhance the exotic taste of street food?

Yes, let us make it as sterile and expensive as Singapore, that will work

 

[rosst]

On 2/13/2017 at 5:05 PM, mcfish said:

Hmmm did it occur to you that thais may want their streets back? It's not all about the once a year visitor.
Bangkok was the last Asian city to have the foot paths Gridlocked with food carts and rubber dildo, fake cotton t shirts and wooden frogs.. Mostly just over priced garbage.

Those food cards were for the most serving hookers and motor taxis. Some backpackers.. Who cares, time to move on

It's called progress, it's how a developing country develops. The tourists do not come here to buy the above. Bangkok is becoming a grown up city and the Thais deserve it!

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk
 

Please close the door quietly when you leave, obviously nothing here for you, move along please, move along.

 

[trogers]

51 minutes ago, rosst said:

Yes, let us make it as sterile and expensive as Singapore, that will work

 

When I first came to Bangkok in 1983, food were being sold in shophouses and not food carts along the footpaths.

 

These shophouses have proper kitchen facilities to handle food preparation and the washing thereafter, and their prices are similar to those sold by food carts.

 

What has that to do with Singapore prices?

[eddie61]

On 2/13/2017 at 11:35 AM, trogers said:

Those recycled corn or palm cooking oil and grilled meat and pork knuckle rice are really healthy street food...for the heart...

 

http://www.india.com/food-2/reusing-cooking-oil-not-a-great-idea-168914/

Ok.... well wait until you die of senile dementia, after a life of complete boredom. Personally, I choose street food any day over a bigmac. Not necessarily khao kha moo every day... phak boong fai daeng is always ok, so is phad kraphaow khai dao, or bhami moo daeng once in a while. Bigmac and KFC are an insult to Thai food culture....

Edited February 24, 2017 by eddie61

[trogers]

4 hours ago, eddie61 said:

Ok.... well wait until you die of senile dementia, after a life of complete boredom. Personally, I choose street food any day over a bigmac. Not necessarily khao kha moo every day... phak boong fai daeng is always ok, so is phad kraphaow khai dao, or bhami moo daeng once in a while. Bigmac and KFC are an insult to Thai food culture....

So speaks the man until he experiences the first tightening of his chest and shooting pain in his arm...then a long period of reflection...

[Eagle60]

On 2/13/2017 at 3:57 PM, trogers said:

I wonder if you hope Bangkok and Thailand remain poor and exotic in your eyes, and never progress like where you come from.

 

Wasn't your city and home nation exotic 50 to 60 years ago? So, progress killed off the exotic appeal?

Progress hmmm. be careful using a word that has a multifaceted meaning. Progress is great if it includes all parts of the spectrum of society. Sadly it does not. Ask a Londoner like  a nurse, teacher, artist or average person who are the majority, how they feel about the fact they can not longer afford to live where there work is and travels hours to work because the city centres are owned by a spoiled few and overseas investors. Nothing wrong with progress, but sadly it lacks intelligent planning.

[trogers]

36 minutes ago, davidcc said:

Progress hmmm. be careful using a word that has a multifaceted meaning. Progress is great if it includes all parts of the spectrum of society. Sadly it does not. Ask a Londoner like  a nurse, teacher, artist or average person who are the majority, how they feel about the fact they can not longer afford to live where there work is and travels hours to work because the city centres are owned by a spoiled few and overseas investors. Nothing wrong with progress, but sadly it lacks intelligent planning.

Same cannot be said for a nurse living in an ex-colony of Great Britain - Singapore.