The power struggle behind Thailand's temple row

[Stargeezr]

So this temple and people are a society unto them selves. Does that mean they can be above the

laws?  If their former abbott is a criminal then start arresting anyone of them who likely knows

the where abouts of this criminal until they give him up, also fine the temple for the labour

costs of the military and police who are involved with this corrupt incident. Start charging

the temple every day, and post it on TV.

Geezer

[ddavidovsky]

Religion is what people want it to be. And it needs money to run. After any Christian church service the begging bowl goes round. People are usually happy to donate out of moral compunction or keeping the culture going or whatever. Let them.

 

Dhammakaya offered something more disciplined and organised than the demotic disorder at typical Thai temples - that suits many people's temperament,  and no doubt also gives them a heightened sense of community.

 

Screaming corruption is the usual smokescreen the establishment uses to purge all threats to its sense of control. Remember Suthep and his mob with their whistles? People always fall for it because it's possible to get some dirt on everyone. That's not the real issue they are going after this temple though. The comparison with the persecution of Falun Gong in China is appropriate.

[NCC1701A]

" "Nirvana is for sale and the more you give, the better you become,"

 

My thoughts about Pattaya exactly.

[reenatinnakor]

Religion is what people want it to be. And it needs money to run. After any Christian church service the begging bowl goes round. People are usually happy to donate out of moral compunction or keeping the culture going or whatever. Let them.

 

Dhammakaya offered something more disciplined and organised than the demotic disorder at typical Thai temples - that suits many people's temperament,  and no doubt also gives them a heightened sense of community.

 

Screaming corruption is the usual smokescreen the establishment uses to purge all threats to its sense of control. Remember Suthep and his mob with their whistles? People always fall for it because it's possible to get some dirt on everyone. That's not the real issue they are going after this temple though. The comparison with the persecution of Falun Gong in China is appropriate.

Thai Monks prey on the weak minded to further their own financial gains. It's all superstition and ritual mumbo jumbo but Thai woman will always give money in the hope of a better life that never materializes but still they give money to temples and monks because they say giving will result in more financial rewards for yourself! Thai people that make money don't realize it's because of their hard work and not because they went to the temple that made their wish come true, so they will keep on giving to the temple on the false assumption that giving makes them rich because the monk deceivedly said so.

I've been to over 100 temples and always wish the same thing to prove my gf wrong! The whole Thai monk industry is a scam and should be exposed but off course it never will be... Could you imagine the libel suits?!

Sent from my LG-H990 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[ddavidovsky]

1 hour ago, reenatinnakor said:

 

Thai Monks prey on the weak minded to further their own financial gains. It's all superstition and ritual mumbo jumbo but Thai woman will always give money in the hope of a better life that never materializes but still they give money to temples and monks because they say giving will result in more financial rewards for yourself! Thai people that make money don't realize it's because of their hard work and not because they went to the temple that made their wish come true, so they will keep on giving to the temple on the false assumption that giving makes them rich because the monk deceivedly said so.

I've been to over 100 temples and always wish the same thing to prove my gf wrong! The whole Thai monk industry is a scam and should be exposed but off course it never will be... Could you imagine the libel suits?!

Sent from my LG-H990 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

Intellectuals like you and me don't need the mumbo-jumbo, but ordinary simple-minded people do. Let them have it. Keeps them quiet.

[lvr181]

A bunch of criminals and their non-thinking followers using Buddhism to suit their own ends, being power and money!

[Smarter Than You]

rumble, rumble, rumble.....the whole edifice that has filled the pockets of the few will surely come crashing down, in just a little more time they will inevitably bring about their own demise - hoorah!

[canthai55]

17 hours ago, lvr181 said:

A bunch of criminals and their non-thinking followers using Buddhism to suit their own ends, being power and money!

This would be more correct -

 

A bunch of criminals and their non-thinking followers using politics to suit their own

ends, being power and money!

 

As is true the world over.

[canthai55]

I have not read one post on this thread from any poster who shows the most remote understanding of Buddhism. Starting with the first one - 100% manure

[Lannig]

Well, enlighten us, then.

[scorecard]

On 2/24/2017 at 9:46 PM, ddavidovsky said:

Religion is what people want it to be. And it needs money to run. After any Christian church service the begging bowl goes round. People are usually happy to donate out of moral compunction or keeping the culture going or whatever. Let them.

 

Dhammakaya offered something more disciplined and organised than the demotic disorder at typical Thai temples - that suits many people's temperament,  and no doubt also gives them a heightened sense of community.

 

Screaming corruption is the usual smokescreen the establishment uses to purge all threats to its sense of control. Remember Suthep and his mob with their whistles? People always fall for it because it's possible to get some dirt on everyone. That's not the real issue they are going after this temple though. The comparison with the persecution of Falun Gong in China is appropriate.

 

OK but you make no comment about stealing (billions of Baht) the deposits of credit union members.

[lvr181]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

This would be more correct -

 

A bunch of criminals and their non-thinking followers using politics to suit their own

ends, being power and money!

 

As is true the world over.

YES and no - they are wearing the orange/saffron robes hence the connection to Buddhism. Nothing wrong with Buddhism only something wrong with those who use it as a cloak for their nefarious activities, political, criminal, power or money. I do see your point.

[ddavidovsky]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

OK but you make no comment about stealing (billions of Baht) the deposits of credit union members.

Because I haven't seen any evidence that the temple stole anything. They received a donation which they returned. What is your proof that they knew where that money came from, and that such a thing was regularly practiced - any other known cases?

 

I don't do the torch-and-pitchfork faux-outrage thing, which has compelled many people around here to believe that every monk at the temple is somehow actively involved in a grand money-laundering scheme. Ridiculous. What I have seen is a grotesque anti-religion bias from TV members, and anti-Dhammakaya propaganda from the establishment who want to get rid of the place for reasons you have seen me describe clearly already. I weigh one set of empirical observations against another.

 

 

[canthai55]

3 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

 What I have seen is a grotesque anti-religion bias from TV members, and anti-Dhammakaya propaganda from the establishment who want to get rid of the place for reasons you have seen me describe clearly already. I weigh one set of empirical observations against another.

 

 

Agree. If you look at the posters, the same ones go on every topic, in every thread, and beat the drum denouncing anything and everything. All Monks are ...  All RTP are ...  All (insert here) are ... Never a constructive post. Only insults, slander, and abuse.

[scorecard]

19 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

don't do the torch-and-pitchfork faux-outrage thing, which has compelled many people around here to believe that every monk at the temple is somehow actively involved in a grand money-laundering scheme. Ridiculous.

Yes your comment is ridiculous, I can't recall reading any comment from anybody suggesting that every monk at the temple is somehow actively involved in a grand money-laundering scheme.

[Moonmoon]

Dhammakaya is explicit that giving brings merit. When that "bears fruit", it brings more wealth, which means more donations - to support Buddhist activities.

 

same idea as the prosperity gospel we have seen so many rich preachers preached about.

 

The rich n well to do willingly believe this scam because they have acquired much wealth and they want to bring it to the afterlife or the next life with them.  Its like how the ancient kings or powerful person of some ancient civilizations will bring their wealth, servants and wives to be buried alive in the graves with when he is dead.

 

Its all about fear.

[greenchair]

Basically, it's nobodies business how much money the temple or its followers have. The people donate the money because they feel happiness doing that. If it was a poor temple with thousands of poor followers needing health treatment , would anyone  be so interested in taking it over? ??

[scorecard]

4 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Basically, it's nobodies business how much money the temple or its followers have. The people donate the money because they feel happiness doing that. If it was a poor temple with thousands of poor followers needing health treatment , would anyone  be so interested in taking it over? ??

 

Not if the money has been stolen from the depositors of a credit union.

[bannork]

1 hour ago, ddavidovsky said:

Because I haven't seen any evidence that the temple stole anything. They received a donation which they returned. What is your proof that they knew where that money came from, and that such a thing was regularly practiced - any other known cases?

 

I don't do the torch-and-pitchfork faux-outrage thing, which has compelled many people around here to believe that every monk at the temple is somehow actively involved in a grand money-laundering scheme. Ridiculous. What I have seen is a grotesque anti-religion bias from TV members, and anti-Dhammakaya propaganda from the establishment who want to get rid of the place for reasons you have seen me describe clearly already. I weigh one set of empirical observations against another.

 

 

The proof will come out at Tammachayo's trial. Why do you think he's hiding from the police? If he was innocent of embezzlement he would have been to see the authorities a long time ago

Do you know their history and list of  dubious characters such as Sia Song's brother and allegations of stock market manipulation.

Please read today's Bangkok post and the article where one of the backers talks about massing 5 million followers and then they will be unstoppable. Their talk of the light forces overcoming the dark forces bears an eerie similarity to the Falun gong  cult indeed.

 

Edited February 26, 2017 by bannork

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

Not if the money has been stolen from the depositors of a credit union.

It wasn't. The people that stole it donated it to the temple. 

The temple wanted to give the money back. 

Bit like the radjaphat project that gave money to the amulet trader ??who then gave the money back. 

[bannork]

19 minutes ago, greenchair said:

It wasn't. The people that stole it donated it to the temple. 

The temple wanted to give the money back. 

Bit like the radjaphat project that gave money to the amulet trader ??who then gave the money back. 

If you believe that you believe in Father Christmas. Look how much each monk received. They only wanted to give the money back after they got caught.

[reenatinnakor]

Because I haven't seen any evidence that the temple stole anything. They received a donation which they returned. What is your proof that they knew where that money came from, and that such a thing was regularly practiced - any other known cases?
 
I don't do the torch-and-pitchfork faux-outrage thing, which has compelled many people around here to believe that every monk at the temple is somehow actively involved in a grand money-laundering scheme. Ridiculous. What I have seen is a grotesque anti-religion bias from TV members, and anti-Dhammakaya propaganda from the establishment who want to get rid of the place for reasons you have seen me describe clearly already. I weigh one set of empirical observations against another.
 
 

I've been to Thailand 8 years and forgot how many monks and temples I have visited with the gf... I'm an atheist and don't believe in magic but the gf believes it so I play along to keep her happy. I have never seen a thai monk that doesn't like receiving money. Every bhuddist monk I have seen in this world has taken money and likes it, even when I met them outside thailand. Not saying theres anything wrong with it, US preachers make millions from their bs sermons and people are on with it, but ordinary people know what the score is a scam with those preachers. Thai bhuddist monks are just in it for the money.

Sent from my LG-H990 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[Baerboxer]

On 2/24/2017 at 6:31 PM, wakeupplease said:

Reenatinnakor

Thanks for that, sort of missed it but very true. Have to excuse me now, as I have a debate coming on with the wife and her spending, which just got cut.

The Temple in Birmingham is 95% women on open day, now I know why.

Happy Chappy today learned something and it will save me money

Thanks R

 

Women in general, not just Thai and not just Buddhism, tend to be more spiritual and in touch with their spiritual and emotional sides than men. 

 

Not sure which of the 2 temples in Birmingham you refer to. But I always saw a healthy number of husbands there whenever we went. True mainly ladies but not near 95%. I always put that down to most being wives and many husbands dropping them off with the kids. 

 

Good luck with the spending debate. I always find the discussions around budgets, cash flow and where it actually went most enlightening. Baffling, devoid of all accounting and mathematical logic but creative in it's own unique way. Usually followed by a bout of sourness that could curdle milk 

[greenchair]

22 hours ago, bannork said:

If you believe that you believe in Father Christmas. Look how much each monk received. They only wanted to give the money back after they got caught.

All I can see on that chart is the temple and monks recieved donations. When they found out where it came from, they offered to give it back. 

It doesn't show that they knew the money was stolen . 

Doesn't amount to anything .

Same as rajaphat, only wanted to give back after they got caught. 

Except in this case, they haven't been caught doing anything. Unless you have something else to show. 

[ddavidovsky]

21 hours ago, reenatinnakor said:

 

I've been to Thailand 8 years and forgot how many monks and temples I have visited with the gf... I'm an atheist and don't believe in magic but the gf believes it so I play along to keep her happy. I have never seen a thai monk that doesn't like receiving money. Every bhuddist monk I have seen in this world has taken money and likes it, even when I met them outside thailand. Not saying theres anything wrong with it, US preachers make millions from their bs sermons and people are on with it, but ordinary people know what the score is a scam with those preachers. Thai bhuddist monks are just in it for the money.

Sent from my LG-H990 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

I agree it looks shabby, especially when they have those all-day fundraising events in the temples when money is strung out in long chains, or when people pay loy baht to pick up a basket of groceries and deliver it to a monk, only to see the basket carried back to the  pick-up point for the next person to 'buy'.

 

I'm not sure cynicism is really justified though. The people understand about it and don't mind giving. And don't forget how extensive Buddhism is in Thailand. The monkhood is enormous and reaches down into ordinary society. A lot of people become monks for a while or spend weekend retreats at the monasteries. It takes money to keep it all running. The temple next door to me has just had a lot of renovation done including a new roof. It's not going on Mercs for the abbot, though a lot of people on this forum to have that idea. Ordinary well-meaning people make use of the temples every day. It's the culture, and it's Thailand. Not sure why anyone would want to change it.

[bannork]

2 hours ago, greenchair said:

All I can see on that chart is the temple and monks recieved donations. When they found out where it came from, they offered to give it back. 

It doesn't show that they knew the money was stolen . 

Doesn't amount to anything .

Same as rajaphat, only wanted to give back after they got caught. 

Except in this case, they haven't been caught doing anything. Unless you have something else to show. 

When they got caught  they decided to pay it back:

An awful lot of money, from 435 million baht to 100 million baht  going to individual monks at Wat Thammakai.