Tragedy played out on Facebook as sick and uninsured Bangkok expat dies on the way to hospital

[billd766]

4 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

The points you make are very valid. I don`t think too often because it makes my brain hurt but this thread has really got me thinking.

 

I am British and not having returned to the UK for several years nor having any homes there I am no longer eligible for medical treatment under the National Health.  I am also at the medical insurance bygone age, meaning at my age many medical insurance companies won`t even take me on or I`d have to pay a King`s ransom for premiums every month. As a retiree in Thailand I am not entitled to cheap or free medical care under the Thai social security system, so in fact I am in medical limbo and if the crunch came to the crunch I could end up at the tender mercies of the private hospitals where the final medical bills could be anything, the sky`s the limit with them.

 

So here`s some questions for anyone who maybe in the know: Could it be possible to create an expat cooperative in Thailand whereas members pay an amount of money into a fund each month that would cover medical fees for serious health issues as in the tragic case of the OP, with certain conditions imposed?

 

Here`s an example; each member could pay a sum of 5000 baht per month and considering the probably thousands of expats living in Thailand who are in similar situations as me, most would jump at the opportunity and the kitty would draw in millions of bahts each month, more than enough to give all it`s members coverage. So come on you TV experts, give us your opinion?

 

I am in the same position that you are in.

[smotherb]

On 2/25/2017 at 2:53 PM, marinediscoking said:

Not sure where you get 250K? Looks to me like a 92 honda cb 400? So you could drop 200K off that estimate. 

 

RIP

It looks bigger to me--Jap bike--still doesn't mean B250k, older bikes of 750cc go for under B100k, 1000cc for B125k and that is with book, without book, half that price. I have a great running 750cc Honda Magna V4,  90hp, but it has no book, so B50k is about all you can get.

[Notadoctor]

On 2/25/2017 at 2:18 PM, rkidlad said:

Regardless of what you think about him having no insurance, he should have gone to the best and nearest hospital. Doctors swear an oath. 

 

Get treated first and worry later. Life and death should have no price tag.

"Doctors swear an oath. " - it is a common misconception amongst expats that doctors in Thailand are bound by the same sort of ethics as in the USA or Europe.....such blind faith is unfortunate and potentially dangerous.

[ajarngreg]

3 minutes ago, Notadoctor said:

"Doctors swear an oath. " - it is a common misconception amongst expats that doctors in Thailand are bound by the same sort of ethics as in the USA or Europe.....such blind faith is unfortunate and potentially dangerous.

 

Please see the post a foreign doctor from Buri Ram.

 

   Thai doctors do not know anything about such an oath, but they do know who "Hello Kitty" is. 

[mommysboy]

Regarding health plans: I suppose it's making a plan according to your ability to pay.  In my case I'm at least reassured that I will have access to some health care reasonably priced for me at a Government Hospital.  Albeit that healthcare in the worst health scenario is going to be palliative and not curative.

 

But I rather think that in the west too, health care for geriatrics is heading this way.  Quite simply free long term health care is unsustainable.  So it will be end of life care for three months and that's your lot unless you can pay for it.  Still, dosed up on narcotics and out of it is not a bad way to go.

 

I also ask myself what are you getting for a wonderful health plan?  four or five years of funded pain and misery in most cases.

[earlinclaifornia]

10 hours ago, paulbj2 said:

I am assuming that you are talking ONLY about the USA.There are lots of nationalities on this forum so it's probably best to be specific about which country's services you are citing. 

 

The Social Security where I was living until recently, Luxembourg, do pay all overseas costs up to the maximum fees applicable in the "home" country. I was twice treated in hospital here in Thailand, whilst on holiday and the Luxembourg Social Security paid the bills in full. I believe the same applies in Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands and doubtless many other European countries.

Good point that i needed to specify USA.Personally I maintain a supplement insurance along with Medicare but need to return if it becomes necessary.

Edited February 26, 2017 by earlinclaifornia

[catman20]

On 2/25/2017 at 2:39 PM, fstarbkk said:

No money for health insurance, but riding around on a THB 250K motorcycle. Priorities?

sadly i know a man with poor priorities also, pays some hooker to live with him. hes only on a small pension. shes is only there for the money, no feelings for him, he is in denial of course, no insurance, very ill, expects friends to pick up the tab.

Edited February 27, 2017 by catman20

[metisdead]

Off topic posts as well as inflammatory posts have been removed. 

[Gonefortea]

Not seen anywhere yet that the motor bike actually belongs to the chap. But regardless of that if he was in pain maybe that over road any sensible thoughts on his behalf. And again why should  he get  criticism on here because he owned a bike ? if it was his. None of us know his circumstances leading up to his tragic death or the months years before or any reasons as to why he had no money. Most of you think you do and criticised accordingly. A normal practice on here 

Edited February 27, 2017 by Gonefortea

[hawker9000]

Many posters here seem not to understand the basic principles of health insurance. It is not a form of pre-payment wherein you can expect to get back as much as you pay,and if you don't then you have somehow been scammed.

It works through risk sharing. The majority of people will pay more in premiums than they will get paid out in benefits; they do this knowingly as a safeguard in case they end up in the minority of people whose insurance payouts vastly exceed what they paid in premiums. The one group subsidizes the other, and since there is no way of being sure which group you'll be in, it is prudent to participate.

I have been insured here for decafes. Insurance has paid per policy provisions without fail. Many, many cases on the health forum with same to report including a man with a 3 million baht bill for cancer and heart surgery. (And no, the company did not cancel his policy nor hike up his rates right after.)

Of course not all policies and insurers are the same. One has to do due diligenve in selection and read the policy thoroughly. An astounding number of people fail to do this.

VERY well written! It's precisely the case that so many simply don't understand what "insurance" actually is! That's also why medical insurance outfits don't cover previously existing conditions (unless populist politicians make them in order to buy votes). A policy that does so is a "care plan" and not actually "risk-sharing" and so not really an "insurance" policy.

In either case, insurance against unforeseeable but potentially catastrophic medical needs OR a care plan, the responsibility for foreigners traveling in Thailand logically rests with the foreigner, NOT the thai taxpayer and NOT the thai government. If you're not responsible enough to have the coverage you SHOULD have before traveling (expensiveness or obtainability is YOUR problem!) then you shouldn't be traveling. But if you do, then have a problem & can't pay, Thailand should provide you only immediate necessary treatment, then, since you're a proven deadbeat, deport & blacklist you regardless of the property or family issues that might create for you. Word will get out, the deadbeats will taper off, and some will learn to take their responsibilities more seriously.

[Thaidream]

Absolute nonsense- everyone can have insurance at a reasonable cost if the government of any country let's its resident- that means expats buy into it. Your vision is not only heartless and cruel- it shows the selfishness that so many people now exhibit toward their fellow man.

In addition- many insurance companies do cancel policies after a catastrophic illness and if not raise the rates so high that a person can no longer afford to pay it. I know, I have had the experience with a very large American insurance company. Private Insurance is a scam- their goal is to make as much money as possible off the misery of others, That is why Healthcare must be a human right and administered as such by Governments. Private insurance needs to be put out of business.

[localczar]

On 2/25/2017 at 7:02 PM, NCC1701A said:

RIP fellow biker. Sad that he did not have a friend to help navigate the system here in Thailand.

 

A small 15 baht bottle of Hydrogen Peroxide that you can buy at Boots Pharmacy poured all over any wound IN THE EARLY STAGES would have killed all the bacterial whether it was "antibiotic resistant" or not. Great for when you walk on the beach barefoot or get scratched hiking or just trying to walk down the street. The small bottle will fit in your pocket and the bottle is plastic.

 

You can gargle and rinse your mouth out with 3% Hydrogen Peroxide. 

 

I drink a whole bottle when I am in Pattaya. :)

 

The larger bottles are 6%. Just pore it all over any new wound and repeat until completely clean. Costs like nothing. Keep a eye on your wound and if it shows signs of infection go to the hospital right away for more VERY CHEAP treatment. But remember, hospitals are home to the most antibiotic resistant bacteria so get the hell out of there fast.  :)

 

Hua Hin hospital (not Bangkok Hospital) has a Farang VIP desk and I have trouble spending more than 1000 baht there for simple things like blood tests or something like strep throat.

 

 

"Using hydrogen peroxide or rubbing alcohol to clean an injury can actually harm the tissue and delay healing. The best way to clean a minor wound is with cool running water and mild soap. Rinse the wound for at least five minutes to remove dirt, debris, and bacteria"

 

Bad advice dude.

[Gary A]

1 hour ago, localczar said:

"Using hydrogen peroxide or rubbing alcohol to clean an injury can actually harm the tissue and delay healing. The best way to clean a minor wound is with cool running water and mild soap. Rinse the wound for at least five minutes to remove dirt, debris, and bacteria"

 

Bad advice dude.

If you have some road rash, I think you are better off to go to the doctor. Years ago, I had a bad road rash. Fortunately the doctor sprayed it with something that at least partially numbed the area then he actually used a scrub brush to clean the wound. I definitely gritted my teeth. He apologized for causing me pain and explained that there was no other way to get all the dirt out. Quire often road rash wounds get infected.

[localczar]

15 minutes ago, Gary A said:

If you have some road rash, I think you are better off to go to the doctor. Years ago, I had a bad road rash. Fortunately the doctor sprayed it with something that at least partially numbed the area then he actually used a scrub brush to clean the wound. I definitely gritted my teeth. He apologized for causing me pain and explained that there was no other way to get all the dirt out. Quire often road rash wounds get infected.

ouch, should consider wearing some form of body armor.

[LannaGuy]

I have no wish to curtail someone's fun but this REALLY is not the place to be riding big bikes.

 

I am nervous on my little Vespa let alone big machines weaving in and out and no matter how proficient you are, trained to the hilt in farangland, you are in the Wild West here and just asking to throw the dice every time you get on yer big bike. Just say NO and don't do it. As for insurance it won't cover you so keep a few 100k in the bank because THAT DAY is coming if you can't curb your 'I'm still in the 1970/80s' fetish for big bikes.  Good luck to all.

[Galactus]

RIP Chris:(

and for the posters here assuming things about Chris, you know nothing about him and you guys are just assuming from your as..es sorry to say.

insurance or his post in facebook regarding his feet has nothing to do with his sad demise.

and want to punch the idiot designed those bridges with no safety for motorcycles. even a car can fly from that short barrier!

so, please focus on such things that make sense guys.

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Absolute nonsense- everyone can have insurance at a reasonable cost if the government of any country let's its resident- that means expats buy into it. Your vision is not only heartless and cruel- it shows the selfishness that so many people now exhibit toward their fellow man.

In addition- many insurance companies do cancel policies after a catastrophic illness and if not raise the rates so high that a person can no longer afford to pay it. I know, I have had the experience with a very large American insurance company. Private Insurance is a scam- their goal is to make as much money as possible off the misery of others, That is why Healthcare must be a human right and administered as such by Governments. Private insurance needs to be put out of business.

I too found that post deeply offensive and ill thought out.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Gary A said:

If you have some road rash, I think you are better off to go to the doctor. Years ago, I had a bad road rash. Fortunately the doctor sprayed it with something that at least partially numbed the area then he actually used a scrub brush to clean the wound. I definitely gritted my teeth. He apologized for causing me pain and explained that there was no other way to get all the dirt out. Quire often road rash wounds get infected.

 

Many years ago my mate was riding his Triumph 110 in the UK and got T-boned. He was wearing helmet, leathers, gloves and boots and spent a while face down in the hospital treatment room whilst a pleasant nurse used tweezers to pick out the bigger lumps of road rash followed up like you with the local anesthetic, Dettol I think, warm water and the scrubbing brush.

 

His bike was a write off but at least he was still alive.

[billd766]

48 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

I have no wish to curtail someone's fun but this REALLY is not the place to be riding big bikes.

 

I am nervous on my little Vespa let alone big machines weaving in and out and no matter how proficient you are, trained to the hilt in farangland, you are in the Wild West here and just asking to throw the dice every time you get on yer big bike. Just say NO and don't do it. As for insurance it won't cover you so keep a few 100k in the bank because THAT DAY is coming if you can't curb your 'I'm still in the 1970/80s' fetish for big bikes.  Good luck to all.

 

Of course it is. Big bike or small bike will make little difference if get hit or involved in an accident. You are probably better off with a bigger bike as you have better acceleration to get out of scrapes and better brakes to stop you quicker.

 

I got T-boned about 4 years ago by a red light runner whilst riding my Honda Phantom 200 cc. I simply couldn't accelerate or turn quickly enough to get out of the way. On my Honda CB400 I could have whacked the throttle wide open and the pick up would have missed me. As it was it hit me on my rear crash bar and pannier and threw me off. I was lucky to get away with a few scrapes, a bent wrist and a not too badly bent bike.

 

They stopped up the road and the accident happened right outside the police box at the lights where a cop was outside and saw it happen. Their fault and we went to the local police station where we came to an agreement and they paid up in cash.

[cheapskatesam]

I'm amazed at all the Brits here who think somehow the NHS won't treat them if they've not been here a while.. Why would they not?

Just because you live abroad you will still be registered with a GP.. and they'll still have your medical records

 

[AGareth2]

medical records get removed from the GP after a few years

you need to re-register and request your records from a central store

[cheapskatesam]

7 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

medical records get removed from the GP after a few years

you need to re-register and request your records from a central store

 

easy to register with a GP.. if you have a form of ID with you (if they even bother asking for it).. 

What are they going to do? Liase with the UKBA and find out if you've been out the country for a long period of time?

I registered with a GP years ago when i left the military.. i'm 99% sure they didn't even ask me for anything.. just fill out a form and bobs your uncle.

 

If you had a condition like this poor fellow had you could just walk into A&E.. wait a long time but get seen to 

Edited February 27, 2017 by cheapskatesam

[paulbj2]

15 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

medical records get removed from the GP after a few years

you need to re-register and request your records from a central store

That appears to be correct. I never told anyone in the UK that I was moving overseas so I assumed that my registration with my old GP would still be alive and that my medical records would still be at his practice. Not so; my registration had be expunged and the records had been sent to a central storage facility. When I was on holiday in my sometime hometown

 

I had the gross misfortune to come across a "Jobs-worth". The address on my records file had been recorded slightly wrongly (No 40 in the road I lived instead of No 42) and despite the fact that the chances of there being another NHS patient with my combination of Christian names, date of birth and extremely rare surname living next door to where I actually  lived tend towards zero, she refused to associate me with my medical records. The silly bitch even used the famous words "...more than my jobs worth - data protection act!" Apparently, common sense no longer trumps complying with ill thought through legislation even if it could mean putting the patient's life at risk. 

Edited February 27, 2017 by paulbj2

[Gonefortea]

5 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

VERY well written! It's precisely the case that so many simply don't understand what "insurance" actually is! That's also why medical insurance outfits don't cover previously existing conditions (unless populist politicians make them in order to buy votes). A policy that does so is a "care plan" and not actually "risk-sharing" and so not really an "insurance" policy.

In either case, insurance against unforeseeable but potentially catastrophic medical needs OR a care plan, the responsibility for foreigners traveling in Thailand logically rests with the foreigner, NOT the thai taxpayer and NOT the thai government. If you're not responsible enough to have the coverage you SHOULD have before traveling (expensiveness or obtainability is YOUR problem!) then you shouldn't be traveling. But if you do, then have a problem & can't pay, Thailand should provide you only immediate necessary treatment, then, since you're a proven deadbeat, deport & blacklist you regardless of the property or family issues that might create for you. Word will get out, the deadbeats will taper off, and some will learn to take their responsibilities more seriously.

Jesus's why not go the whole hog and hang draw and quater them. Seriously "proven deadbeat" snob is a word I would say to you.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Gonefortea

[mommysboy]

5 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

VERY well written! It's precisely the case that so many simply don't understand what "insurance" actually is! That's also why medical insurance outfits don't cover previously existing conditions (unless populist politicians make them in order to buy votes). A policy that does so is a "care plan" and not actually "risk-sharing" and so not really an "insurance" policy.

In either case, insurance against unforeseeable but potentially catastrophic medical needs OR a care plan, the responsibility for foreigners traveling in Thailand logically rests with the foreigner, NOT the thai taxpayer and NOT the thai government. If you're not responsible enough to have the coverage you SHOULD have before traveling (expensiveness or obtainability is YOUR problem!) then you shouldn't be traveling. But if you do, then have a problem & can't pay, Thailand should provide you only immediate necessary treatment, then, since you're a proven deadbeat, deport & blacklist you regardless of the property or family issues that might create for you. Word will get out, the deadbeats will taper off, and some will learn to take their responsibilities more seriously.

 

What also falls on deaf ears is that an increasing number of people simply cant afford adequate health care.  At least half of any population is poor these days.  I agree they haven't quite realised that yet though!

 

Then some of us have children.  It is allowed, even for the poor.

 

It's all very well talking about the need for good health plans, but if there's no money...

[mommysboy]

59 minutes ago, cheapskatesam said:

I'm amazed at all the Brits here who think somehow the NHS won't treat them if they've not been here a while.. Why would they not?

Just because you live abroad you will still be registered with a GP.. and they'll still have your medical records

 

Yes.  It isn't that difficult to stay ahaead of the game. The law says more than 6 months out the country you can no longer use NHS, but in practice nobody really checks.  You remain on GP's register for at least 5 years, and in any case you simply turn up at hospital and they are very unlikely to ask questions as you are self evidently British.

 

In the worst case scenario, even if you were rumbled they would still treat you, and might present a bill, but if you can't pay there is little NHS could do.

 

Say if you were extremely ill, then you would be admitted to hospital, and it would also be NHS duty to keep you there, and you could nopt be discharged until a nursing home became available, and since you would have no funds, the local care authority would be obliged to pay.

 

May change though.

[Thaidream]

How can Healthcare  not be a right when every Constitution ever written states each person has a right to life. Right now in the US- this is a very hot issue because of the rising costs associated with 'Obamacare'. It is  incredible to me that of all the Nations on this Earth that America has the highest defense budget in the World and cannot provide universal healthcare to its citizens and residents and the current President Trump does not have a real plan to provide even what Canada, the UK , Japan or even Thailand has.

 

He does have a plan to raise the defense budget even more while US citizens will continue to die from lack of funds for ever rising healthcare and pharmaceutical costs. The insurance companies; Big Pharma; and those associated with the Medical industry will continue to get wealthier while Americans die and the politicians will support the system because the medical industry and its hangers on will continue to 'lobby'  the politicians.

 

The suckers are the American public who actually believe Government cares about them. Is there no one who will step up and stop this madness?  If there is not a change for the better Worldwide where every person on Earth is assured of healthcare, one day we will see Worldwide revolution and anarchy.

[mommysboy]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

How can Healthcare  not be a right when every Constitution ever written states each person has a right to life. Right now in the US- this is a very hot issue because of the rising costs associated with 'Obamacare'. It is  incredible to me that of all the Nations on this Earth that America has the highest defense budget in the World and cannot provide universal healthcare to its citizens and residents and the current President Trump does not have a real plan to provide even what Canada, the UK , Japan or even Thailand has.

 

He does have a plan to raise the defense budget even more while US citizens will continue to die from lack of funds for ever rising healthcare and pharmaceutical costs. The insurance companies; Big Pharma; and those associated with the Medical industry will continue to get wealthier while Americans die and the politicians will support the system because the medical industry and its hangers on will continue to 'lobby'  the politicians.

 

The suckers are the American public who actually believe Government cares about them. Is there no one who will step up and stop this madness?  If there is not a change for the better Worldwide where every person on Earth is assured of healthcare, one day we will see Worldwide revolution and anarchy.

 

When I hear American friends speak against universal health care, I think they are plain mad: turkeys voting for christmas.

 

Likewise when they emphasise individuality- christ! the majority of us only make it past 35 because society evolved as a collective to meet needs that we as individuals can't possibly organize or pay for ourselves.

 

They even play catch games and call it football!!!

 

Great country, great people.  We Brits will always be here for our crazy cousins

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

FYI, there are lots of Americans, and probably in increasing numbers, who think the current system in the U.S. is woefully inadequate and are looking for some kind of universal care solution.

 

But, stupid people keep electing loons like Trump for reasons that probably don't have much to do with health care policy, and who knows what's going to happen now. The Obama administration supposedly early on tried for a version of universal health, but it just wasn't going to fly with opposition from the Republicans in Congress and big pharma, etc.

 

In my working years in the U.S., I always had good health insurance subsidized by my employers and never really was lacking for anything. But even so, I recognized then and even more now that lots of my fellow countrymen remained uninsured or under-insured and thus were being denied affordable health care. That's why I've always supported some version of universal care.

 

However, I think the one thing that scares a lot of Americans on that subject are the reports we read coming out of places like Canada, the UK, etc. of sick people under their national health plans having to wait months/many months for particular services/operations because of demand backlogs. And no one wants to find themselves in that kind of situation. In my years of private health insurance in the U.S., I never had to wait for anything...

 

 

[Travel2003]

On 2/25/2017 at 8:53 AM, marinediscoking said:

Not sure where you get 250K? Looks to me like a 92 honda cb 400? So you could drop 200K off that estimate. 

 

RIP

Hair splitting.

You obviously did not get the point.