Tragedy played out on Facebook as sick and uninsured Bangkok expat dies on the way to hospital

[stoneyboy]

Recurring problem which with a continuing ageing ex pat population here will only become more prevalent as the years go on.

 

Thailands a lovely place to live if you can afford it but when you start factoring children and education and health care and western living standards into the equation there are far to many people here who in reality can't actually afford to be here it's plain as day I'm afraid.

 

If you don't mind taking risks in life and being here on a shoestring budget happy days,if you care to have a lifestyle resembling that of your home country one must ensure the supply of cash is continuous and ample enough to cover you for emergencies,repatriation home etc etc one should always carry a get out of jail free card.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, bipper said:

Thoughtful, respectful, nice.....<deleted> I knew him.

WOW!!! I happened to see his FB post and the photo of the infection on his leg. It looked bad, though not VERY large.

 

U really do have to watch out for yourself here and be very careful. Because chances are, if u dont, no one else is going to.

 

Sad way to go.

[mommysboy]

Tough situation that wouldn't have happened in a civilised country, but anyone who is commited to live here will likely be in a similar situation sooner or later. Health insurance only tends to go so far anyway.  I do rather wonder too whether it was an accident in the truest sense.  I hope I am brave enough to find a way out when the time comes.

 

 

[paulbj2]

This is a world wide problem that requires a visionary, international solution.

 

People visiting Thailand or indeed anywhere else in the world, from most (but not all) EU countries are automatically covered by the healthcare provider in their home countries. The only private insurance that these people need is against the risk of serious injury or illness that requires specialized medical repatriation. Is it beyond the wit of governments worldwide to get together and arrange some sort of fall-back medical cover that would these sorts of situations arising?

 

 

[ajarngreg]

12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

WOW!!! I happened to see his FB post and the photo of the infection on his leg. It looked bad, though not VERY large.

 

U really do have to watch out for yourself here and be very careful. Because chances are, if u dont, no one else is going to.

 

Sad way to go.

 

 

 

 

 

       It looks like a serious Staphylococcus Aureus infection where the flesh underneath the skin's already dead. Only treatable by specialists, as most Antibiotics do not help anymore.

 

    You really need to see a specialist when your leg looks like his leg. There's a microbiologist needed to find the right treatment and it takes a damn long time to treat such an infection. I know what I'm talking about because I had one and almost lost my leg.

 

   The problem for a doctor is that you might only see a little spot that doesn't heal. But under this spot is the total destruction. 

 

  

Edited February 25, 2017 by ajarngreg

[seancbk]

RIP to Christian.


Can someone who understands Thai please explain if that video was an Ambulance or a news crew?    

 

[ajarngreg]

8 minutes ago, seancbk said:

RIP to Christian.


Can someone who understands Thai please explain if that video was an Ambulance or a news crew?    

 

 

 

 

    + 1 RIP. It seems to be one of these rescue cars. And one of the crew made this movie. 

 

  Here's a message from one of his friends. The video was made by a rescue car guy. 

 

Guys. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but unfortunately it looks like we lost one of our members today. Christian Melzer. I learned this from watching a video of the rescue guys on FB. The video clearly shows his driving license. It seems like he came off the highway and somehow fell from quite some height to the ground. RIP Christian

Edited February 25, 2017 by ajarngreg

[Sheryl]

Actually it sounds like he was insured, under "social security", unclear what that meant.

 

If he meant Thai SS then it seems he simply did not know how the system worked; there is no upfront payment at the hospital one is registered at.

 

If some sort of home country SS then it could be that for care abroad it is on a reimbursment basis, would depend on the country and specifics of the plan.

 

Very sad, but he does not seem to have had his act together in terms of provision for emergency health care - either he did not understand how to access his coverage (if it was Thai SS) or had a type of coverage that required him to pay upfront but lived here without emergency funds sufficient to do that.

[mommysboy]

4 minutes ago, paulbj2 said:

This is a world wide problem that requires a visionary, international solution.

 

People visiting Thailand or indeed anywhere else in the world, from most (but not all) EU countries are automatically covered by the healthcare provider in their home countries. The only private insurance that these people need is against the risk of serious injury or illness that requires specialized medical repatriation. Is it beyond the wit of governments worldwide to get together and arrange some sort of fall-back medical cover that would these sorts of situations arising?

 

 

 

Yes. I like what you say.  Certainly, I think Canada and USA has such a benefit. UK and Australia- I don't think so.

 

It needs to said though: this could have been cured without extreme cost, but the Thai authorities would not do it.

 

So you need to know where you stand.  Personally, I think if you don't have substantial cash or a good policy, then you really need to factor an unfortunate premature death in to the equation, because it's likely going to happen sooner or later.

 

It's very short sighted of Thai authorities given the money they make from tourism.  More bad publicity.

 

[elgordo38]

1 hour ago, fstarbkk said:

No money for health insurance, but riding around on a THB 250K motorcycle. Priorities?

Yes I have to agree the thought had occurred to me. I wonder what other resources he had at his disposal. At the very least he should have had the leg looked at at a public hospital much earlier. As we age here medical insurance or the ability to cover illness should become priority 1. One should make a life plan here. He seemed to be under the misapprehension that Social Security covers him. Like Location location location its clarification clarification clarification 

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

Actually it sounds like he was insured, under "social security", unclear what that meant.

 

If he meant Thai SS then it seems he simply did not know how the system worked; there is no upfront payment at the hospital one is registered at.

 

If some sort of home country SS then it could be that for care abroad it is on a reimbursment basis, would depend on the country and specifics of the plan.

 

Very sad, but he does not seem to have had his act together in terms of provision for emergency health care - either he did not understand how to access his coverage (if it was Thai SS) or had a type of coverage that required him to pay upfront but lived here without emergency funds sufficient to do that.

 

Yes, that is likely the top and tail of it.  How did it get to this stage though?  It seems he had visits to hospital.  Somewhere along the line it seems likely to me that he was denied much needed treatment.

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, elgordo38 said:

Yes I have to agree the thought had occurred to me. I wonder what other resources he had at his disposal. At the very least he should have had the leg looked at at a public hospital much earlier. As we age here medical insurance or the ability to cover illness should become priority 1. One should make a life plan here. He seemed to be under the misapprehension that Social Security covers him. Like Location location location its clarification clarification clarification 

Asssuming there is such a comprehensive solution, isn't that beyond most peoples' means?  How much would it cost a 55 year old for the same unlimited cover as in UK for instance?

[ajarngreg]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Actually it sounds like he was insured, under "social security", unclear what that meant.

 

If he meant Thai SS then it seems he simply did not know how the system worked; there is no upfront payment at the hospital one is registered at.

 

If some sort of home country SS then it could be that for care abroad it is on a reimbursment basis, would depend on the country and specifics of the plan.

 

Very sad, but he does not seem to have had his act together in terms of provision for emergency health care - either he did not understand how to access his coverage (if it was Thai SS) or had a type of coverage that required him to pay upfront but lived here without emergency funds sufficient to do that.

 

From reading his posts on FB, it seems that he had the Thai SS and didn't know details.

[seancbk]

4 minutes ago, ajarngreg said:

9 minutes ago, seancbk said:

RIP to Christian.


Can someone who understands Thai please explain if that video was an Ambulance or a news crew?    

 

 

 

    + 1 RIP. It seems to be one of these rescue cars. And one of the crew made this movie. 

 

 

Thank you Ajarngreg.

I reckon the driver was wearing the camera given the way the image was moving during the drive.   
 

I thought the driving was pretty good, fast but not taking stupid risks and the other drivers seemed to do their best to get out of the way.     

I did wonder why when they arrived at the scene there were already two other ambulances there.  Perhaps Bangkok doesn't have a centralised system to limit multiple ambulances from heading to the same accident.  

[ajarngreg]

8 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

Yes, that is likely the top and tail of it.  How did it get to this stage though?  It seems he had visits to hospital.  Somewhere along the line it seems likely to me that he was denied much needed treatment.

 

 

 

 He posted this yesterday:

 

 

Who can tell me a good, really good hospital which I can visit with Social Security???

Never mind in which area in BKK Ort around. I have 6 months to fight with an infection and my hospital (Chalurat 9) not get it away ...

I have much pain and I don't know what to do anymore ..

 

 

  P.S. Doctors from Chalurat 9 obviously didn't want to lose face by sending him to a specialised hospital for his injuries. He must have gone through hell. 

Edited February 25, 2017 by ajarngreg

[bipper]

55 minutes ago, bipper said:

He had government social insurance. The same as any worker in Thailand has. On Thai wages personal BUPA cover was most likely unaffordable for him, unlike the fat armchair keyboard warriors on this site. He was most likely going to a hospital recommended to him by his Facebook biker group who I must say like myself are shocked at this tragic death which was most likely caused by being pushed into a wall by a driver who didn't stop. Christian was an experienced big bike rider. Next time you guys are on the road in your Isuzu or Toyoto Hilux keep your sleepy eyes open for motorcyclists. Much better than spewing <deleted> on this site I read day by day. <deleted>!    

 

[elgordo38]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

Asssuming there is such a comprehensive solution, isn't that beyond most peoples' means?  How much would it cost a 55 year old for the same unlimited cover as in UK for instance?

Try BUPA if you wish good till 70. The Chevrolet coverage only goes so far. The Cadillac is pricey rather depends on what you can afford. Bangkok Bank has a good accident coverage for 5 to 8 thousand bahts a year. 

[ajarngreg]

Just now, seancbk said:

 

 

Thank you Ajarngreg.

I reckon the driver was wearing the camera given the way the image was moving during the drive.   
 

I thought the driving was pretty good, fast but not taking stupid risks and the other drivers seemed to do their best to get out of the way.     

I did wonder why when they arrived at the scene there were already two other ambulances there.  Perhaps Bangkok doesn't have a centralised system to limit multiple ambulances from heading to the same accident.  

 

 

 It's a very sad " who comes first, gets the cash- provision system." These rescue car drivers receive a certain amount from the hospital they bring the patient to.

 

          They all try to be the first when an accident occurs, most of them are private. 

 

    

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, rkidlad said:

Regardless of what you think about him having no insurance, he should have gone to the best and nearest hospital. Doctors swear an oath. 

 

Get treated first and worry later. Life and death should have no price tag.

But it isn't regardless ...

 

When there was discussion about requiring tourists and foreign residents to pay for or have proof of medical insurance there were howls of protest on TV.

 

If you're traveling you should have insurance coverage and if you decide to settle in Thailand you should face the fact that medical needs have to be planned for. Waiting until you get sick or have an accident and then carrying on about poor me and someone should give me care for free,  is just irresponsible. 

 

It's tragic that this man died, although it apparently had nothing to do with his infected leg (which had been treated). If he had survived the accident he would have been treated for his injuries in hospital, but whether or not he could pay for it, someone would have to.

 

One of the things that affects the prices we all have to pay for medical treatment is the provision that hospitals have to make to cover the cost of treating people who can't pay. If you want to pay for those without funds or insurance, then please step forward with cash in hand the next time some foreigner is reported in hospital with hundreds of thousands in unpaid bills.

 

Even in western nanny states medical treatment for non-residents/citizens is limited or non-existent.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2017 by Suradit69

[paulbj2]

4 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

But it isn't regardless ...

 

When there was discussion about requiring tourists and foreign residents to pay for or have proof of medical insurance there were howls of protest on TV.

 

If you're traveling you should have insurance coverage and if you decide to settle in Thailand you should face the fact that medical needs have to be planned for. Waiting until you get sick or have an accident and then carrying on about poor me and someone should give me care for free,  is just irresponsible. 

 

It's tragic that this man died, although it apparently had nothing to do with his infected leg (which had been treated). If he had survived the accident he would have been treated in hospital, but whether or not he could pay for it, someone would have to.

 

One of the things that affects the prices we all have to pay for medical treatment is the provision that hospitals have to make to cover the cost of treating people who can't pay. If you want to pay for those without funds or insurance, then please step forward with cash in hand the next time some foreigner is reported in hospital with hundreds of thousands in unpaid bills.

 

Even in western nanny states medical treatment for non-residents/citizens is limited or non-existent.

 

 

"Even in western nanny states medical treatment for non-residents/citizens is limited or non-existent."

 

Who told you this? I don't know of one single "western nanny state" where something like this would not have been treated on a "treat first, ask questions later" basis and by the way I have lived in quite a number of western nanny states!!

Edited February 25, 2017 by paulbj2

[mommysboy]

4 minutes ago, elgordo38 said:

Try BUPA if you wish good till 70. The Chevrolet coverage only goes so far. The Cadillac is pricey rather depends on what you can afford. Bangkok Bank has a good accident coverage for 5 to 8 thousand bahts a year. 

 

I'd guess though that if you are not killed off by some event like a fatal heart attack, then healthcare as you sicken and die will be a very expensive process.  Sooner or later, my guess is that you will be in Christian's situation.

[ajarngreg]

4 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

But it isn't regardless ...

 

When there was discussion about requiring tourists and foreign residents to pay for or have proof of medical insurance there were howls of protest on TV.

 

If you're traveling you should have insurance coverage and if you decide to settle in Thailand you should face the fact that medical needs have to be planned for. Waiting until you get sick or have an accident and then carrying on about poor me and someone should give me care for free,  is just irresponsible. 

 

It's tragic that this man died, although it apparently had nothing to do with his infected leg (which had been treated). If he had survived the accident he would have been treated for his injuries in hospital, but whether or not he could pay for it, someone would have to.

 

One of the things that affects the prices we all have to pay for medical treatment is the provision that hospitals have to make to cover the cost of treating people who can't pay. If you want to pay for those without funds or insurance, then please step forward with cash in hand the next time some foreigner is reported in hospital with hundreds of thousands in unpaid bills.

 

Even in western nanny states medical treatment for non-residents/citizens is limited or non-existent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But there are exceptions, take Merkelland for example. On the other hand, is she doing all to remove such "goodies."

 

  Regardless of race and nationality, all hospitals in Germany will and have to help you. 

[natway09]

Very sad .

Every time something like this comes up we get the same blah blah about health insurance.

For the more cautious of you take the time to find out the exact circumstances should the need arise

for finding say 1.4 mil Bht for emergency treatment & (or unavoidable confinement) with insurance or cash.

Its all very well to blame hospitals here but why should they or the Government be responsible for a non tax paying

expat who is unprepared & underfunded?

Has anybody talked to a hospital group here & suggested paying say  5,000 Bht a month on your account?

 

[tonywillo]

On 24/02/2017 at 6:42 PM, lgking said:

There are no Buddhists in Thailand

 

1 hour ago, brianwl said:

I have can't get health insurance in Thailand because of pre-existing conditions.  

Then you'd best go back home before your luck runs out. 

[brianwl]

"If you're traveling you should have insurance coverage and if you decide to settle in Thailand you should face the fact that medical needs have to be planned for. "

 

You're correct.  In regard to the US Veterans program, they said they take care of everything for Veterans with a high disability rating.

 

In reality, this is not true and you can't get private insurance to fill the gap.

 

Plus, the things that are paid for by then, are not direct billed.  Its a pay first and we'll reimburse you when we get around to it.

[mommysboy]

6 minutes ago, ajarngreg said:

But there are exceptions, take Merkelland for example. On the other hand, is she doing all to remove such "goodies."

 

  Regardless of race and nationality, all hospitals in Germany will and have to help you. 

 

UK too. And most western countries.

 

As to the cost in the scheme of things, a fraction surely.  Most farangs are insured or can pay at least some, and anyway the farang population is tiny compared to Thais.

 

And of course if a Thai gets injured in farangland he gets treated.

 

Not really any good excuse in my books. Christian's problem did not look especially costly.

 

Sheryl made a good point though, it is possibly a tragic breakdown in communication.  I'd still put the onus on authorities to do the bidding, because sick people behave irrationally.

 

With negotiation and some goodwill it could be they would have entered in to some payment arrangement.

Edited February 25, 2017 by mommysboy

[ajarngreg]

12 minutes ago, elgordo38 said:

Try BUPA if you wish good till 70. The Chevrolet coverage only goes so far. The Cadillac is pricey rather depends on what you can afford. Bangkok Bank has a good accident coverage for 5 to 8 thousand bahts a year. 

 

For those who still don't have an insurance, it's in English:

 

         http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/BuildYourWealth/Bancassurance/NonLifeInsurance/Pages/NewPA1st.aspx

[Prbkk]

Have an account earmarked for medical, untouchable; keep a foreign credit card account open. In the event of something acute or for longer term chronic...the funds are there even if insurance is not ( or is too slow).

[seancbk]

6 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

9 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Actually it sounds like he was insured, under "social security", unclear what that meant.

 

If he meant Thai SS then it seems he simply did not know how the system worked; there is no upfront payment at the hospital one is registered at.

 

If some sort of home country SS then it could be that for care abroad it is on a reimbursment basis, would depend on the country and specifics of the plan.

 

Very sad, but he does not seem to have had his act together in terms of provision for emergency health care - either he did not understand how to access his coverage (if it was Thai SS) or had a type of coverage that required him to pay upfront but lived here without emergency funds sufficient to do that.

 

Yes, that is likely the top and tail of it.  How did it get to this stage though?  It seems he had visits to hospital.  Somewhere along the line it seems likely to me that he was denied much needed treatment.

 

I agree with his friend who posted earlier, the accident that killed Christian likely had nothing to do with the infection, other than it was that which caused him to be on the road at that time and that he was likely clipped by another vehicle.

So far as the infection goes, only people that know him and who he may have spoken to would perhaps know how and why he got that infection.  

It is very easy to get infected.     I grew up in Asia and used to never bother to clean scrapes right away, believing that my immune system would fight off bugs.   The a couple of years ago I broke the skin on my shin leaping out of the pool at my condo. 
It was a minor scratch so I left it.  I did rinse off in the shower a couple of hours after the swim.  Normally I would expect a scrape like that to heal in less than a week on it's own.   This one just wouldn't, 2 weeks later it was still open and not scabbing over...  eventually I went to a clinic and got some medicated cream, and eventually my little wound did heal.   But it left a small but unsightly scar on my leg.  

 

Now I have a stock of alcohol wipes and sterile gauze etc so any time I break the skin I immediately clean the area and ensure that I don't let bacteria gain a foothold.

For those of you who haven't lived in Asia a long time and who are likely to be sensitive to mosquito bites (they do not affect me at all), getting bitten and scratching the bite often leads to nasty infected spots and is more prevalent in you older gentlemen who don't usually have the rapid healing abilities of younger people.

 

[bipper]

Why all the rubbish about health insurance? A man's dead most likely caused by a car/truck driver. Drive safely! Be aware!

 

Christian didn't die by blood poisoning he was most likely killed by driver carelessness.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2017 by bipper