Divorce

[DaveD]

Hi,i apologise in advance if this query is in the wrong area.

I got married to my thai wife in thailand in the ampher office,a legal marriage.

The marriage was recognised in my country and my wife came to live with me.

All was fine for 5 years.

Have been seperated now for 5 years and getting divorced here in ireland.

Will this divorce be recognised in thailand?

Bought land in thailand in the wifes name ,subsequent to the marriage.

What happens with the land.

Thanks for all advice ,i can enlarge where needed.

[AlexRich]

I'm not sure about the divorce question, but as far as the land is concerned it's legally your ex-wife's ... but to be 100% on this topic best get some legal advice in Thailand.

[Kwasaki]

What do you actually want. ?

Better to ask your lawyer and discuss what arrangement you have agree with your wife.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Kwasaki

[daveAustin]

I would posit it is hers... did you sign anything in the land office saying monies for land was a gift to wife?

[oxo1947]

33 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

I would posit it is hers... did you sign anything in the land office saying monies for land was a gift to wife?

This has been covered by what was our resident law firm--(about 200 times) they no longer post here, I don't know if I can post a link to them , where they also state this.

 

It doesn't matter what is signed in the land office when it comes to Marriage law--if purchased while you are married---your money or hers doesn't matter, it is in law a 50-50 split. This is called

 

SIN SOMROS –Property acquired during marriage.

To have property before marriage is SIN SUAN TUA

But even the profit's from Sin Suan Tua, belong 50% to the partner..in plain words have a condo  (before your married) rent it out--& the rent belongs to you both. It is called

"The Fruits of the Sin Suan Tua"

 

I have sat through 3 of these court cases over 18 years (the guys got the 50% even on the one where the wife pretended she had sold the house to her sister) but it can be a bit of a grind...so think about if its worth the hassle. Is the land worth that much? Is it really just a revenge thing ??  wouldn't it be better just to write it off, get on with your life.

 

Good luck anyway.......

[theoldgit]

I'll move this to a more appropriate forum, where you might get better advice.

[happylarry]

If you divorce in Ireland it will be recognized world wide but the land is in your wife's name and nothing will change. However if you decide to get divorced in Thailand then as others have said the complete assets acquired during the marriage will then get shared 50/50. The divorce is straightforward because you have been separated for more than three years and only one of you needs to go to the court but you have to use a lawyer to represent you and do everything.

If both parties are in agreement about both the divorce and sharing the assets then you can get a quickie divorce at an amphur and the sharing of assets will be put in the agreement for divorce, but both parties have to be present.

I will send you my wife's business card by pm in case you want any more info from someone who works in the courts on a weekly basis.

HL

[cyberfarang]

20 hours ago, oxo1947 said:

This has been covered by what was our resident law firm--(about 200 times) they no longer post here, I don't know if I can post a link to them , where they also state this.

 

It doesn't matter what is signed in the land office when it comes to Marriage law--if purchased while you are married---your money or hers doesn't matter, it is in law a 50-50 split. This is called

 

SIN SOMROS –Property acquired during marriage.

To have property before marriage is SIN SUAN TUA

But even the profit's from Sin Suan Tua, belong 50% to the partner..in plain words have a condo  (before your married) rent it out--& the rent belongs to you both. It is called

"The Fruits of the Sin Suan Tua"

 

I have sat through 3 of these court cases over 18 years (the guys got the 50% even on the one where the wife pretended she had sold the house to her sister) but it can be a bit of a grind...so think about if its worth the hassle. Is the land worth that much? Is it really just a revenge thing ??  wouldn't it be better just to write it off, get on with your life.

 

Good luck anyway.......

I was always under the belief that land and property purchased in Thailand had to be financed by the Thai wife`s money if she is married to a Farlang and therefore if not the case then it means the real estate was purchased illegally by the Farlang husband so he cannot claim 50% in a divorce dispute. In some cases I have heard that if the whole deal was illegal in the first place, the government can confiscate the estate and auction the whole lot off.

[oxo1947]

15 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

I was always under the belief that land and property purchased in Thailand had to be financed by the Thai wife`s money if she is married to a Farlang and therefore if not the case then it means the real estate was purchased illegally by the Farlang husband so he cannot claim 50% in a divorce dispute. In some cases I have heard that if the whole deal was illegal in the first place, the government can confiscate the estate and auction the whole lot off.

Your first part  is correct cyber..that you sign a waver in the land office , however (as in most countries) family law always overrules most other law.You can not get 50% of the land-of course, just recompense for the amount the land is worth.--(& that's always up for debate) If you do a TV search your see the law firm (one of the largest farang type law firms in Thailand) explaining the procedure many times, when they used to contribute to this forum. Answering all Law questions etc.

Signing the waver does confuse many people--I have never heard of the Thai government taking a house/Land from a farang wife and auctioning it off, there has been some problems with forming fake companies in the  past, just to buy a house---but of course that isn't a marriage thing.

Most of the time the Thai person is advised by her lawyer what the law is -- and an agreement is reached, but for the few I have witnessed in court. Its quick when it gets there...but the getting there can take an age sometimes.

 

I will PM you  a link to the law firm.....but it does come up in the search here.

[cyberfarang]

1 hour ago, oxo1947 said:

Your first part  is correct cyber..that you sign a waver in the land office , however (as in most countries) family law always overrules most other law.You can not get 50% of the land-of course, just recompense for the amount the land is worth.--(& that's always up for debate) If you do a TV search your see the law firm (one of the largest farang type law firms in Thailand) explaining the procedure many times, when they used to contribute to this forum. Answering all Law questions etc.

Signing the waver does confuse many people--I have never heard of the Thai government taking a house/Land from a farang wife and auctioning it off, there has been some problems with forming fake companies in the  past, just to buy a house---but of course that isn't a marriage thing.

Most of the time the Thai person is advised by her lawyer what the law is -- and an agreement is reached, but for the few I have witnessed in court. Its quick when it gets there...but the getting there can take an age sometimes.

 

I will PM you  a link to the law firm.....but it does come up in the search here.

Hi oxo and thank you for the link.

 

I read the report but it still gives only a general rundown of facts, it does not specify the differences between Farang to Thai marriages and Thai to Thai marriages.

 

My Thai girlfriend and I have been together for many years in Thailand. We rent her brother`s very fine home. My GF wants us to officially marry and buy her brother`s house with land, with my money of course and for me being on a retirement extension here I cannot see any good reasons to commit myself on a deal where I can only stand to lose out. You may be correct with the 50/50 process but I`m not willing to make investments in something based on the loyalties and trust of others. I had an English friend here some years ago, he bought a house and land in his Thai wife`s name, about 5 million bahts worth, she died from an illness, within one week after her death her family turned up to claim the lot. He went to court and lost. Then there is the big case going on at the moment where an English guy invested 10 million dollars in land and property and his Thai wife with the assistance of a lawyer screwed him for all that he is worth. Whatever the family laws are, this is still Thailand and they know all the cons and tricks on how to separate the Farlang from his assets. So I am saying; it`s not worth taking the risk and I won`t be pushing my luck at anytime soon.

[oxo1947]

Hi cyber

I think your wise --if unsure do nothing is the best policy .

 

The firm that you  refer to makes most of its money through dealing with farangs re Thai law--it was quoting that in relation to all people...that's why it was written in English. As I mentioned a search here will show you that was the most asked question of them--and repeatedly answered in the affirmative of the 50% whether your skin is white or brown

.

The 2 items you mentioned are not anything to do with Marriage law...one is the inheritance law...and yes you can come out of that quite badly IF THERE IS NO WILL... the second  one you mentioned is about a scam where the husband allowed the "shanuk" (ownership papers) to just sit in the draw, the wife (with others) cooked up a scheme where she sold it under the market price.....and you know the rest.

 

People do not treat the Shanuk with the importance that they should, the farrang partner should hold it in a safe place..(or with a friend etc) because if the wife does not have it--and wants to do something like this--she has to then report it missing---go to the police station sign an affidavit that it has been destroyed or lost and wishes to apply for a new one.  It can be done but the forging of this police report etc..... (making written false statement under oath is classed as forging under Thai law) would I think been enough to stop what happened to this poor sod in Phuket.

 

If your not yet married and wish to do something --then your position is even stronger Cyber...(as a contract between man & wife isn't valid in Thai law) hence the prenup or a 30 year lease or the strongest one of all "Usufruct" You can own the house of course, and a written right to access it..(if you are not married when signed)

 

 

 

[cyberfarang]

My long term Thai girlfriend wants us to officially get married and buy her brother`s fine land and house that we now rent, with my money of course. I am a retiree and can`t see any benefits of marrying and investing in land and property I can never own and only others stand to benefit, like hell no.

 

I would not be here unless I have a minimum of 4 million baht stacked away in a Thai savings bank after paying all the expenses for setting myself up here.

Have a minimum secured monthly income of 50000 baht without the need to run a business or work.

 

I would NEVER invest in land and property, buy into a business or start my own business in Thailand. And unless I can hold a rock solid legal right to part or full ownership of real estate and a business here, then I don`t care what words of hope anyone tells me, my staunch on this subject will not change.

 

 

[DaveD]

Hi and thank you all for your input.

I did sign the waiver in the land office  and i think it was shown that the purchase money was my wifes.

However i have been told by a law office in thailand that because the purchase was subsequent to the marriage then the land becomes an asset to be divided 50/50 regardless of who purchased it.

I am not greedy for the land ,but my wife declared it here in ireland in her statement of means so a decision will have to made here.

I dont know how this will work in thailand.

[happylarry]

The waiver you sign in the land office is only for the land office and means nothing to any other department especially the divorce courts.

How do you mean "how this will work in Thailand" ?

HL

[DaveD]

Hi and thanks again for advice.

As the land has been declared as a joint asset,i think the court here will have to make a decision on how the asset will be shared.

My guess is that the courts decision here regardiing the land can not be  binding in thailand even if both parties here accept the courts ruling.im sorry i know im not putting this very well.

[happylarry]

You are correct Dave, whatever the Irish court decides about the assets would mean zilch in Thailand. So basically if you want your 50 per cent then you need to divorce over here in Thailand.

HL

[DaveD]

my wife has already stated in a sworn legal document that i have a 50% share of the land in thailand.

i am assuming that our divorce will be recognised in thailand,but to what degree?

there are no children involved, my ex is still living in ireland ,has a new partner and has a child with him.

i have no problem with the divorce  except that she said some pretty unsavoury things about me none of which are  true.

the land in question is rented out to the benefit of my wifes father.

[Odysseus123]

12 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

My long term Thai girlfriend wants us to officially get married and buy her brother`s fine land and house that we now rent, with my money of course. I am a retiree and can`t see any benefits of marrying and investing in land and property I can never own and only others stand to benefit, like hell no.

 

I would not be here unless I have a minimum of 4 million baht stacked away in a Thai savings bank after paying all the expenses for setting myself up here.

Have a minimum secured monthly income of 50000 baht without the need to run a business or work.

 

I would NEVER invest in land and property, buy into a business or start my own business in Thailand. And unless I can hold a rock solid legal right to part or full ownership of real estate and a business here, then I don`t care what words of hope anyone tells me, my staunch on this subject will not change.

 

 

Yes-spot on.

 

..and I wish that I had read this post 6 years ago.However,I didn't and that is that.Next step is to go back and if I ever come back to Thailand to have as good a grip on reality as this poster obviously has.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Odysseus123
clarity.