No Uber allowed to pick up passengers at Suvarnabhumi Airport

[Dibbler]

9 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

Fleece the public, with a 50 baht surcharge ? What taxi mafia are you talking about ? I never get fleeced, and get from the airport to home for next to nothing, on the meter. The charges are already ridiculously low, especially compared to the flat fee rates in Phnom Penh or the ripp-off rates in Vientiane. Not to mention the rates in more developed countries around Thailand.

 

Uber does not comply with some of the requirements any average taxi driver has to comply with, so I am not surprised they cannot pickup up any passengers at BKK or DMK, surprised they are even allowed to operate in Thailand, I thought they were banned.

Yes like you I never get fleeced as I speak Thai and have lived here for more than two decades so I know all the tricks public taxi drivers use to get passengers to understand that as soon as they get beyond the boundary of the airport, the meter must stop and they must ask for 400THB or get out of the car and walk thank you.  No, that never happens to me anymore but for the average tourist coming to either of the airports, it happens EVERYDAY to somebody.  For this reason tourists are far better off riding a clean usually newish Uber car with a normally courteous driver who doesn't need to drink M150 to stay awake on the road.

[PremiumLane]

Tell us again how all Uber drivers are happy. The reason most will not complain about it to passengers is because a, they will get a bad review and b, they are being professional 

 

I suggest you Google about Uber's CEO having a run in with an Uber Black driver, and how the company puts too many cars on the road, lies to new drivers, encourages drivers to buy expensive cars and get in debt, cut prices and other shady practices.

 

Typical zero hour contract rubbish that benefits the ultra-rich only 

[hobz]

On 3/1/2017 at 5:04 PM, PremiumLane said:

Tell us again how all Uber drivers are happy. The reason most will not complain about it to passengers is because a, they will get a bad review and b, they are being professional 

 

I suggest you Google about Uber's CEO having a run in with an Uber Black driver, and how the company puts too many cars on the road, lies to new drivers, encourages drivers to buy expensive cars and get in debt, cut prices and other shady practices.

 

Typical zero hour contract rubbish that benefits the ultra-rich only 

Yes, I believe that uber exploits the drivers. But they do not force the drivers...

 

You say uber benefits ultra-rich only? I say it also benefits thw customers, specially in chiang mai where the taxi situation sucks for various reasons.

 

I think uber will stay in chiang mai no matter what, because they have faced law enforcement and mafia in other cities around the world and prevailed. They even combat law enforcement like this https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/technology/uber-greyball-program-evade-authorities.html?_r=0&referer=

[booji]

Tell us again how all Uber drivers are happy. The reason most will not complain about it to passengers is because a, they will get a bad review and b, they are being professional 
 
I suggest you Google about Uber's CEO having a run in with an Uber Black driver, and how the company puts too many cars on the road, lies to new drivers, encourages drivers to buy expensive cars and get in debt, cut prices and other shady practices.
 
Typical zero hour contract rubbish that benefits the ultra-rich only 

Most uber drivers are not doing it as a sole source of income, but rather part-time or fill-in for other work.

I always talk to my uber drivers about their experience - almost all of them love the chance to make some extra money, or help to support the cost of their vehicle. I met one driver in Malaysia who told me he is retired and only drives because he wants to get out of the house every now and then. Another was a property agent that had a few hours down time without clients. There are many like this.


If they did not think it was worthwhile for them, they would not be doing it.




Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[mtls2005]

Actually, sorry to say this, but your claim that drivers from (or to) the Airport NEVER put on the meter is laughable as well as a straight lie. 

 

Since the DLT instituted the various complaint channels (call center, web and mobile app) there have been tens of thousands of complaints, 99% of which are from Thais. The complaints fall into a few broad categories: driver will not take passenger, driver will not use meter, driver displays poor driving, driver threatens passenger

 

There have been dozens of articles re: taxi issues (including non-use of the meter) from the airport in the press, and here on ThaiVisa, over the past 2 - 3 years.

 

My own experience is ~ 5% there is an issue from the airport (over ~ 150 trips; mostly issues using the meter), and less than 1% going to the airport (~ 150 trips). I have been using GrabTaxi for trips to the airport since it was introduced and ave not had any issues. In ~ 1,700 taxi trips around town I've had issues maybe two or three times, but I do dislike those times when I have to "hunt" for a taxi/driver willing to go to my destination, and use the meter.

 

Comparing prices with other countries is not really relevant. Most taxi trips are taken by Thais, and the price is set by the DLT with an eye on the ability of the local market to bear the price.

 

 

[PremiumLane]

14 hours ago, booji said:

 

Most uber drivers are not doing it as a sole source of income, but rather part-time or fill-in for other work.

I always talk to my uber drivers about their experience - almost all of them love the chance to make some extra money, or help to support the cost of their vehicle. I met one driver in Malaysia who told me he is retired and only drives because he wants to get out of the house every now and then. Another was a property agent that had a few hours down time without clients. There are many like this.


If they did not think it was worthwhile for them, they would not be doing it.




Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

But not the experience of a lot of drivers in the US, where Uber are exploitative - Google is your friend :) 

[Dibbler]

But not the experience of a lot of drivers in the US, where Uber are exploitative - Google is your friend :) 

But TIT, we are not in the US. Uber provides extra source of income and most Thai Uber drivers I have spoken to, around 70-80 now, have few if any complaints .

[booji]

On 3/5/2017 at 0:31 AM, PremiumLane said:

But not the experience of a lot of drivers in the US, where Uber are exploitative - Google is your friend :) 

 

It may be anecdotal, but every single ride I took in the US it was the same case - met a social case worker, a teacher, a startup owner, a real estate agent, a student and a retired person. I've also met a guy who was recently laid off and was thinking about what next.  I think I've met only one that said he as driving full time.

[millwall_fan]

On 28/02/2017 at 5:33 PM, wealthychef said:

 

Wow, I can report the driver? That's wonderful!  But if I'm a clueless tourist, or just don't feel like having a big argument with a crooked taxi driver, then the damage is done and the taxi runs off with extra money.  I had a taxi refuse to use his meter last week, from Don Meuang, even though I had a ticket from the counter and there was a big sign saying not using the meters is illegal.  

 

But I am assuming (maybe naively) that as you have found your way onto ThaiVisa and posted over 100 times, you are not  a clueless tourist.  Clueless tourists will always be ripped of to some extent the world over. Sure there are some  rogue drivers - with anything up to 200,000 taxis in Bangkok there are bound to be a few. All I can say is that I've never had any problems. I speak rudimentary Thai, but not enough to win an argument. I've taken taxis home after a good skinful and although drivers uniformly refused to use the meter I could always find one for 100 Baht whereas the meter fare is 70B and I usually give a 20B tip, that's only 10B more than the meter. As I used to be a minicab driver in London maybe I'm a bit biased in favour of the taxi drivers.

[bubba]

...and Uber is one of the best things ever to preclude ripoffs of clueless tourists on holidays in countries where they do not have even rudimentary language skills.

 

Also, there is never an argument, Uber always uses the meter, and you will not get lost or driven around because you have your route plotted out right there on your phone. At least in Bangkok, UberX is cheaper than a taxi as well.

 

I think I am not seeing very many benefits of taking a taxi over taking Uber.

[hobz]

9 minutes ago, millwall_fan said:

 

But I am assuming (maybe naively) that as you have found your way onto ThaiVisa and posted over 100 times, you are not  a clueless tourist.  Clueless tourists will always be ripped of to some extent the world over. Sure there are some  rogue drivers - with anything up to 200,000 taxis in Bangkok there are bound to be a few. All I can say is that I've never had any problems. I speak rudimentary Thai, but not enough to win an argument. I've taken taxis home after a good skinful and although drivers uniformly refused to use the meter I could always find one for 100 Baht whereas the meter fare is 70B and I usually give a 20B tip, that's only 10B more than the meter. As I used to be a minicab driver in London maybe I'm a bit biased in favour of the taxi drivers.

I dont really see a need for uber in bangkok. Because the taxi meters usually use the meter and pricing is fair. 

I guess uber is slightly better due to the trip planning feature where it could be problematic to explain to driver where u want to go...

 

But in Chiang mai the taximeters NEVER use the meter and uber has been a blessing.

[PaPiPuPePo]

On 2/27/2017 at 10:14 AM, Snig27 said:

Absolutely true. We take Uber all over the world all the time and talk with countless drivers. I've never had one anywhere who has said they are unhappy. Most love the freedom and the extra cash. For very few is it a full time job.  BKK is not an anomaly at all. There is a self-righteous arrogance in assuming that Uber drivers are stupid or being screwed.  

 

Nice bit of projection there pal.

 

You think that every one who's being exploited will be aware of that? So there's no such thing as a con or scam? Riiiight. The level of reasoning on this forum is so often depressingly low. It's a truism that the less informed an opinion, the more stridently it's defended.

 

Here's part nine of a long series on Uber's business model. Written by people with way more expertise in economics than either you, me, or I'll wager 99%+ of Uber drivers.

 

In a nutshell, few drivers take costs of maintenance and depreciation into account when calculating their income (you can bet most Thais won't). And without massive subsidies from investors Uber wouldn't be a viable operation (they've already openly cut drivers' income per ride many times and reduced their take in less obvious ways through price and service changes). Anyway these articles spell it out in detail, enjoy your education:

 

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/03/can-uber-ever-deliver-part-nine-1990s-koch-funded-propaganda-program-ubers-true-origin-story.html

[Blindedbythelight]

I use the same Uber driver every week; just call his mobile number. I tell me my flight time. He waits on the Highway, when I get through customs, I tell him to meet me at door number 3. Perfect. Saves time and money. Tax free, and no line ups.

[PaPiPuPePo]

For those unable or unwilling to read the report I linked to, here's info on the author:

 

By Hubert Horan, who has 40 years of experience in the management and regulation of transportation companies (primarily airlines). Horan has no financial links with any urban car service industry competitors, investors or regulators, or any firms that work on behalf of industry participants.

 

And one small snippet that's nevertheless more informational than pages of opinion based (at best) on anecdotal experience:

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Uber’s business model is radically different from past tech unicorns and has (and will continue to) massively reduce overall economic welfare

Most of this series has focused on the economics of Uber, and how the growth of Uber has, and will continue to massively reduce overall economic welfare. Earlier posts presented a wide range of evidence documenting Uber’s hugely unprofitable operations and how its growth had been driven by predatory behavior, its uncompetitive costs, its false claims about innovation and competitive advantage, and that investor returns always depended on industry dominance and anti-competitive market power.

The growth of Uber is massively misallocating resources because Uber is a less efficient producer of urban cars services than the operators it has been driving out of business. Uber cannot achieve sustainable profits or investor returns without achieving the quasi-monopoly industry dominance it has been aggressively pursuing and exploiting anti-competitive market power

The original growth of companies like Google, Amazon, Ebay and Facebook was driven by powerful competitive efficiency advantages and natural scale/network economies that generated massive consumer welfare benefits, although these welfare gains were somewhat offset by the ability to exploit market power once they achieved industry dominance.

Uber is radically different from these past unicorns because its business model is focused entirely on the second (exploit anti-competitive market power) part of this equation[1]. It skipped the difficult first part, which requires creating a totally new product that consumers value, or finding major efficiency breakthroughs so consumers can enjoy much more service at much lower cost.

As a result, Uber required a massively greater investment base than any prior unicorn in order to fund years of predatory subsidies. Amazon could fund much of its growth out of the positive cash flow generated by legitimate competitive advantages and scale/network economies. Uber’s growth required $13 billion in cash — 1600 times Amazon’s pre-IPO investment funding.

While these massive subsidies may have provided some temporary benefits to consumers and drivers they are not sustainable. In reality, they are hugely welfare-reducing because they are designed to destroy more efficient industry capacity and create the anti-competitive market power Uber’s investors need in order to eventually earn returns on that $13 billion.

----------------------------------------------------------------

In the original the bolded sections link to earlier articles. Those interested in better understanding Uber can go to the original webpage I linked to.

 

 

[booji]

For those unable or unwilling to read the report I linked to, here's info on the author:
 

By Hubert Horan, who has 40 years of experience in the management and regulation of transportation companies (primarily airlines). Horan has no financial links with any urban car service industry competitors, investors or regulators, or any firms that work on behalf of industry participants.

 

And one small snippet that's nevertheless more informational than pages of opinion based (at best) on anecdotal experience:

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Uber’s business model is radically different from past tech unicorns and has (and will continue to) massively reduce overall economic welfare

Most of this series has focused on the economics of Uber, and how the growth of Uber has, and will continue to massively reduce overall economic welfare. Earlier posts presented a wide range of evidence documenting Uber’s hugely unprofitable operations and how its growth had been driven by predatory behavior, its uncompetitive costs, its false claims about innovation and competitive advantage, and that investor returns always depended on industry dominance and anti-competitive market power.

The growth of Uber is massively misallocating resources because Uber is a less efficient producer of urban cars services than the operators it has been driving out of business. Uber cannot achieve sustainable profits or investor returns without achieving the quasi-monopoly industry dominance it has been aggressively pursuing and exploiting anti-competitive market power

The original growth of companies like Google, Amazon, Ebay and Facebook was driven by powerful competitive efficiency advantages and natural scale/network economies that generated massive consumer welfare benefits, although these welfare gains were somewhat offset by the ability to exploit market power once they achieved industry dominance.

Uber is radically different from these past unicorns because its business model is focused entirely on the second (exploit anti-competitive market power) part of this equation[1]. It skipped the difficult first part, which requires creating a totally new product that consumers value, or finding major efficiency breakthroughs so consumers can enjoy much more service at much lower cost.

As a result, Uber required a massively greater investment base than any prior unicorn in order to fund years of predatory subsidies. Amazon could fund much of its growth out of the positive cash flow generated by legitimate competitive advantages and scale/network economies. Uber’s growth required $13 billion in cash — 1600 times Amazon’s pre-IPO investment funding.

While these massive subsidies may have provided some temporary benefits to consumers and drivers they are not sustainable. In reality, they are hugely welfare-reducing because they are designed to destroy more efficient industry capacity and create the anti-competitive market power Uber’s investors need in order to eventually earn returns on that $13 billion.

----------------------------------------------------------------

In the original the bolded sections link to earlier articles. Those interested in better understanding Uber can go to the original webpage I linked to.

 

 

I know Hubert - not sure I trust his views as he's always a contrarian


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[PaPiPuPePo]

1 hour ago, booji said:

 

 

I know Hubert - not sure I trust his views as he's always a contrarian


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

Well then I guess you need to read the whole article as well as many others corroborating this article's information.

 

Here's another with wider implications:

 

http://anildash.com/2017/03/tech-and-the-fake-market-tactic.html

 

 

and one regarding just one of Uber's shenanigans:

 

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ubers-phantom-cabs

 

Hopefully these writers aren't too "contrarian" to pass muster with you :-)

 

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by PaPiPuPePo

[PaPiPuPePo]

Here's another:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/12/why-everyone-hates-uber-seven-step-playbook

[SABloke]

Was leaving the airport the other day from the taxi stand...noticed that all the taxis had a cloth that was covering the meter. Nothing's changed with the taxi drivers there despite the "crackdown". -_-

Now if I were the police I would have 1 officer stationed at the underground exit: if that officer spotted a taxi leaving with no meter he would call ahead to the police at a ckeckpoint a few hundred metres down the road. The taxi would be stopped and receive a spot fine of 2000 Baht. Also, I wouldn't announce the plan to he public. I would also cycle the days and position of the checkpoints. A nice moneymaker if I ever saw one.

[janclaes47]

13 minutes ago, SABloke said:

Was leaving the airport the other day from the taxi stand...noticed that all the taxis had a cloth that was covering the meter. Nothing's changed with the taxi drivers there despite the "crackdown". -_-

Now if I were the police I would have 1 officer stationed at the underground exit: if that officer spotted a taxi leaving with no meter he would call ahead to the police at a ckeckpoint a few hundred metres down the road. The taxi would be stopped and receive a spot fine of 2000 Baht. Also, I wouldn't announce the plan to he public. I would also cycle the days and position of the checkpoints. A nice moneymaker if I ever saw one.

 

After 20 years the police still isn't "able" to fine bikers all over the country who don't wear a helmet, and you think they gonna catch taxi drivers who have their meters disabled?

[SABloke]

 
After 20 years the police still isn't "able" to fine bikers all over the country who don't wear a helmet, and you think they gonna catch taxi drivers who have their meters disabled?

Of course not, which is why I said "If I..."

[gk10002000]

So... how about taking the free shuttle to the transportation center and catching the Uber there?  This is still silly, but it is a significant issue.  Many airports and cities in the USA along with the Taxi cab unions, the airport authorities have been discussing this sort of issue for a long time.  Local state and city laws come into play.  I am not surprised Thailand is now having to deal with the Uber and Commercial versus non commercial transport issues

[bubba]

9 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

So... how about taking the free shuttle to the transportation center and catching the Uber there?  This is still silly, but it is a significant issue.  Many airports and cities in the USA along with the Taxi cab unions, the airport authorities have been discussing this sort of issue for a long time.  Local state and city laws come into play.  I am not surprised Thailand is now having to deal with the Uber and Commercial versus non commercial transport issues

I was in Kuala Lumpur recently and there are Uber adverts on the baggage carousels. When requesting a car, the app has it all sorted out by specify which door you are at for the car to find you. If you have been to KL and used taxis, you know how notoriously dishonest the taxi drivers are there, unlike anything in Bangkok. 

 

I think we will not be seeing this any time soon at BKK.
 

By the way, several of the Uber drivers I have had in KL have told me that they are routinely worried about violence from taxi drivers. Some have their cars bashed, and other have had taxi drivers attempt to open their doors and drag them out. When going to a locale with a high density of taxi drivers, they will often ask you to ride in the front with them so the Uber aspect is not as obvious. 

[bubba]

11 hours ago, SABloke said:

Was leaving the airport the other day from the taxi stand...noticed that all the taxis had a cloth that was covering the meter. Nothing's changed with the taxi drivers there despite the "crackdown". -_-

Now if I were the police I would have 1 officer stationed at the underground exit: if that officer spotted a taxi leaving with no meter he would call ahead to the police at a ckeckpoint a few hundred metres down the road. The taxi would be stopped and receive a spot fine of 2000 Baht. Also, I wouldn't announce the plan to he public. I would also cycle the days and position of the checkpoints. A nice moneymaker if I ever saw one.

The "cloth over the meter" tactic was something I frequently saw when I lived in Beijing a long time ago. Here is how it works:

 

Just as you said , they have a police officer stationed at the exit to pull any taxis with a passenger that did not have the meter on (on duty light at the windscreen was off). The driver had indeed switched on the meter to avoid that, but the cloth covered the meter so the passenger couldn't see. As you reached your destination, the driver would quickly reset the meter and give you a flat (exorbitant) rate. Asking to see the meter, of course it was off.