Time Up For Some 30 Day Visa Runners

[cobra]

[ ... Selective and partial enforcement is the best I can see..

Yes, this is how I see it playing out,

[gpt]

Sure they are. They are long staying tourists as evidenced by the fact they travel to another country every 30 days.

Going to another country, staying for a few hours for the sole purpose of getting a visa does not make them tourists.

[kangeroo]

big deal all anyone needs is a few passports or new passport, i dont think they will have a data base on the border crossings.

[falux]

Some people will hate me for saying this, but actually I appreciate the ruling. It costs me a lot of stress and a total of over 100,000 Baht each year (including tax) to be here on a legal basis with non-b and work permit.

Why in he_ll should some bar owners be allowed to do more money and pay no tax? Oh, because they eat food and make those people gain money. Ridiculous.

[thomas3940]

I think the value of the western farang is about to be understood.

The value of the western farang who comes here to do legitimate business or has the financial resources to obtain a retirement visa or comes as a tourist is already understood and Thailand continues to welcome them.

The western farang who hasn't the resources to do anything other than scurry across the border every 30 days before returning to some work that generates minimal income but no foreign exchange is also understood, which is why they want them to go home.

From your post I see you must be a happy holder of a visa and or work permit. You probably have sufficent funds in your account and live life happily here in Thailand. By reading your words when you talk about people scurrying across borders makes me see your care and concern for the elderly living in this country. Possibly they wish to reside here as the weather, taxes and quality of life back home make it hard for them to have a good life. Maybe they have worked hard all their lives but weren't as fortunate as you? Maybe they have a pension less than the required amount necessary to get a visa.

Do they spend their pension checks here? Oh yes Do they help the Thai economy? More than you know!

Where is you compassion for these people? So many westerners here have such a bad attitude towards there fellow country men? Are the 30 day visa runners of lower statue in life because they fall through the cracks of the Immigrtion regultions? Not all 30 day visa runners are scum! Many are good people who just wish a better life!

Try compassion for your fellow fanang not contempt!

[gpt]

Sorry to be so pedantic on this wonderful sunny morn. I have seen the term 'western farang', is there such a thing as an 'eastern farang'?

[endure]

I think the value of the western farang is about to be understood.

The value of the western farang who comes here to do legitimate business or has the financial resources to obtain a retirement visa or comes as a tourist is already understood and Thailand continues to welcome them.

The western farang who hasn't the resources to do anything other than scurry across the border every 30 days before returning to some work that generates minimal income but no foreign exchange is also understood, which is why they want them to go home.

From your post I see you must be a happy holder of a visa and or work permit. You probably have sufficent funds in your account and live life happily here in Thailand. By reading your words when you talk about people scurrying across borders makes me see your care and concern for the elderly living in this country. Possibly they wish to reside here as the weather, taxes and quality of life back home make it hard for them to have a good life. Maybe they have worked hard all their lives but weren't as fortunate as you? Maybe they have a pension less than the required amount necessary to get a visa.

If they don't have sufficient resources to satisfy the visa regulations why should the Thai goverment allow them to enter?

[NolaK]

The value of the western farang who comes here to do legitimate business or has the financial resources to obtain a retirement visa or comes as a tourist is already understood and Thailand continues to welcome them.

The western farang who hasn't the resources to do anything other than scurry across the border every 30 days before returning to some work that generates minimal income but no foreign exchange is also understood, which is why they want them to go home.

Not always the correct stereotype! I am retired with ample resources, but only 40 = no retirement visa. Female = no pseudo marriage visa (Thank heavens). I just like to escape my 7 month winters back home. While here I volunteer for local animal rescues, spend plenty of money and rarely do I scurry when crossing the border. I left Thailand 3 weeks ago because of these regs. South Africa gets the rest of my “Anti-Winter” money and volunteer hands this year.

[MartinBKK]

I am 28 and am one of these people who are financially secure but too young to obtain a retirement visa. I do not work illegally and wish to live and spend money in Thailand.

I have managed to get a 1 year non - immigrant visa in the last couple of weeks however according to the regulations i am not sure im really entitled to one. The intention of immigration is fine wanting every long stayer to obtain a visa but they have rushed thru a system that is not possible to implement IMHO. There needs to be a complete overhaul of the current visa categories so people can stay legally if they benefit Thailand.

[DrDweeb]

I really do not have any interest in economics as I am financially secure. I do not wish to get anyones backs up and do not need advice about my social activites thanks.

You said ''Your opinion about what constitutes a "tourist" is that, an opinion (i do not necessarily disagree btw)'' Please explain my opinion on tourists as when is a tourist not a tourist? If on a tourist visa how are they not tourists?

Your ignorance on terrorism is very strange. Do you not read newspapers or watch television. I think you should start.

a) Ignorance is bliss

I do not recall mentioning your social activities.

c) My comment regarding terrorism dealt specifically with how illogical your statement was in the context of this thread - not the issue per se. If you would like my bibliography of books read this year alone on the subject, I will be happy to provide it, but ... (see point (e))

d) Your opinion is your opinion - I have not challenged it - merely reminded you that it is just your opinion. You are entitled to it as are other theirs. Since you clearly do not actually research anything you say (see previous notes on economic & tax for example), your opinion might be construed by the studious follower of this thread to be less than worthy of merit.

e) Take Remedial Reading 101 as well

Dweeb

[jumnien]

Anyone who was previously staying in Thailand on 30 day visa runs can now stay on 2 or 3 month vacations to exotic foreign locales such as Penang to get a proper tourist visa. No one need go home or god forbid South Africa.

[Krub]

I dont need your advice about economics thanks as I am not interested in it. I am talking about 'the so called 'tourists' who may contribute to the economy by spending money, however they are possibly evading paying taxes in Thailand and possibly their own countries simply by remaining as tourists.

Lets face it tourists are tourists and should expect to be treated respectfully in a foreign country but equally they should respect the country they are visiting by not trying to buck the system as so many do in Thailand and at last the rules are being tightened up.

No one ever heard of global terrorism? Any country with an open door policy is crazy.

I can understand why so many are upset with the rule changes but at the end of the day those people complaning are only TOURISTS on a temporary stay and cannot expect a country to change its laws to suit 'tourists'.

How many long term 'tourists' are there? I am sure that those long term 'tourists' are a minority compared to the tourists who come here on their vacation and then go home, so I cannot see how their disapearance will have much effect on any economy.

I dont really care to be honest as I will be upfront with the proper authorities and pay taxes as necessary. If the laws change and I am unable to stay then I will sell up and go else where. Thailand is not the end all and be all.

If you are not eligible for a 'long term' Visa then sorry but youll have to go, end of.

Having proclaimed your ignorance of basic macro-economics and desire to remain in blissful ignorance, it behooves you to cease your pontifications about subject matter of which you are painfully and admittedly ignorant.

Your opinion about what constitutes a "tourist" is that, an opinion (i do not necessarily disagree btw)

You terrorism comment is illogical to put it mildly - please try Logic 101 at your nearest community college.

Your desire to pay taxes is admirable, though largely misplaced in Thailand - probably due to some childhood problem growing up in Scandinavia or some such place. The idea that "economic benefit = pay tax" is not a universal truism or a logical necessity.

The number of 30day visa-runner residents is very substantial and their contribution to local economy is significant. And remember, almost all of these people know a great deal more about the way the Kingdom operates than your average 14 day tourist.

As others have pointed out - the reason that 30 day visa-runner residents exist is because there is NO ADEQUATE VISA for the reasonably well heeled sub-50yo wishing to retire in Thailand, and for those over 50, the hassle and cost has been seen as far greater than the result, especially as Thai authorities have de-facto and/or explicitly accepted the model for decades. Many of the 30 day people will convert, but there will be a group for whom no adequate way to remain legally in the country will exist and their loss will be a net loss to the economy.

Sure, there are some wanting to be below the radar, they will have to find another shallow, but for most, it is just a great deal of hassle that they would rather be without.

It is also well to remember, farangs have almost no rights, we get nothing for free, and we pay "farang-price" for everything. 1 farang is not the economic equal of 1 thai - nor is the equal in legal terms - just ask Steve Millers family !

If Thais really succeed in implementing their xenophobic tendencies and driving the farangs away, it will be to the detriment of their economy - peiod. Same goes for every other developing nation. We have the wealth, capital knows no boundries, and we can vote with our feet.

That being said, I personally do not have a big problem with the 90/180 rule - its a pain, but I can live with it.

Please don't forget you are in Thailand. The Thais make the rules. You might not like them but they have the right to enforce them. 30 days stamps are for 30 days and not residence. If there are no residence visas is available move on or take the risk to be denied entry.

Money does not give you the right to dictate what should or not be allowed

[tropo]

i did my 3d run, since october 1st, yesterday

two things stand out in my mind:

1) when checking in on the thai side there was very little hesitancy about stamping my passport with another 30 day satmp. but, i did, somehow, have the impression that they had my history well documented on the computer. my conclusion is that it wouldn't be all that difficult to enhance existing computer programs to track the number of days a person spends in thailand.

2) while talking with one of the shop owners on the burmese side, and this will apply to the thai side as well, she asked when i would be back. i had always responded automatically, 'in a month', but this time i realized that i won't be back there for 4 months! me and several hundred other farangs are going to make a big difference in the eating habits of several thousand thais and burmeses dependent on our continuing business month after month.

there is going to be a big drop in income for the next 4 months...

Assuming of course the people are going to come back in 4 months. A lot of people are going to adjust their lifestyles as a result of these new regulations which will probably mean finding a friendlier country in which to reside.

Some will adjust to doing 3 monthly or 6 monthly tourist visa runs combined with 30-day stamps if that is going to be allowed, others will just leave.

I'll be most curious to see how the Penang, and other nearby embassies and consulates are going to cope with thousands of extra tourist visa applicants.

Edited December 17, 2006 by tropo

[rocky]

I think the value of the western farang is about to be understood.

The value of the western farang who comes here to do legitimate business or has the financial resources to obtain a retirement visa or comes as a tourist is already understood and Thailand continues to welcome them.

The western farang who hasn't the resources to do anything other than scurry across the border every 30 days before returning to some work that generates minimal income but no foreign exchange is also understood, which is why they want them to go home.

YOU ARE WRONG WRONG WRONG

The only people the Thais can view in this light are the old or the working.

I am 37, not married to a Thai, Independently wealthy, do not work here in Thailand. I return to my home country, wish to stay here for 11 months of the year. There are no provisions for this situation.

Take your blinkers off, there are more than 3 shelves of long term visitors in Thailand.

Here is another.

My friends is retired here and married. His daughter recently from the UK has had problems, so my friend has invited his daughter to stay with him here in Jomtien so she can take some time out of life. The only visa she can obtain is a 3 month tourist visa.

Her father is wealthy and can keep her financially. She will not be working, But after 3 months will need to return to England. Where is the provision for this.

This new rules will cost more than Thailand ever imagined. It will hurt many individual Thai families, local economies, business both small and large, government Tax.

Here is another.

Wealthy travelers, between commitments (maybe redundant with cash) in the west visits southeast asia with the thought of traveling throughout. Get to Thailand and decide to stay and not visit the other countries. After three months has to leave. Cannot be bothered to go back to their home country so just continue with their travels around asia taking spending money in other countries.

Here is another

Student 12 months traveling, same as above

GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE WORLD HAS MANY DIFFERNET PEOPLE WISHING TO TRAVEL THAT CANNOT NOW STAY IN THAILAND LONG TERM. And the biggest loser will be Thailand

If you are so "rich" and want to stay in Thailand 11 months of the year, why don't you invest a bit of your "wealth" and get yourself a business visa?.

Thai law has the provisions to allow "wealthy" farangs to live in Thailand.

I aplaude Thailands efforts to get rid of undesirables from their country and this is a very positive step in the right direction.

So why are you here Rocky? its not for business....Is it the beautiful beaches perhaps? nice clean air?....it can't be because its cheap because you've allready told us you're "rich". Why are you here?

Hong Kong, Singapore, KL, Shanghai, all have cleaned up their image long ago and they did not go broke. Idead their wealth soared. Now it is Thailands turn.

Because my father lives here, he is a retire visa, He has lived here for many years, has a thai wife. I live here with my western wife, i have no problems with the bar scene, but i am no sex tourist,

ANY MORE QUESTIONS ?

[aussiestyle1983]

You cant really blame anyone except for the Thai government for allowing people to live here on 30 days visa exempt stamps for many years. Weather they work here legally or illegally, they have been allowed to recieve their free 30 day stamp because of the Thai immigration laws. As far as im concerned, its Thailands fault for allowing this to happen so there is no need for saying farangs abbuse the system, the system was set up to be abbused. Also the immigration officers could clearly see that some passports were full of years and years of back to back stamps but they continued to give you your 30 days stamp. So the only people to blame for this mess are the Thai government officials themselves.

I have no problem with this new rule because I have a 1 year visa and I am here legally, but it is good to see a change that may weed out some of the un-wanted. At the end of the day, many people will not just give up and go home, if they want to stay here bad enough, they will find a way.....

[Heng]

No that is not what I'm saying. Those 'tourists 'are the one who dont benefit the country by avoiding paying taxes or running a business or doing anything basically. How can they be a benefit to the Thais?

err... surely those who do nothing still have to eat? And drink? :-) And buy fuel (VAT and duty paid: you can't fiddle that)

So some money from overseas goes into the pockets of Thai traders that wouldn't be there otherwise, which gives more money for said traders to spend elsewhere, some of which might actually be taxed.

This is called an economy.

That's also the argument many illegal immigrants in Texas make. The 'I eat and sh*t here and have had babies here and now they must eat and sh*t too. So I have a right to stay' argument.

IMO the gov't here wants to try to make a clearer cut division between those who contribute to the LOS and those who simply have become addicted to the LOS and are trying to cling to it like folks with a cigarette/heroin/etc. habit.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Sorry to be so pedantic on this wonderful sunny morn. I have seen the term 'western farang', is there such a thing as an 'eastern farang'?

A farang is a white person.

[CRUNCHER]

As I understand it the 30 day visa exempt entry was for the purposes of tourism. The fact that you could re-enter Thailand and get another 30 days was to encourage tourists to use Thailand as a base for touring South East Asia. The fact that the Thai Government has not enforced this for years is neither here nor there. It is still an abuse (and yes, I have used it myself). If the Thai Government wanted people to stay here permanently on this sort of arrangement they would issue 10 year visa exempt entry stamps. Or perhaps make a lot of ,money renewing the 30 days at the local immigration office for a fee.

Long term tourist (those spending say 3 to 9 months a year here) can get multi entry tourist visas. Those living here full time can various other visas/ work permits etc. provided they meet certain conditions. These visas seem to be easier to get is America, Europe, Oz etc. Presumably the Thai Government feels that people returning to these places at least once a year are not taking up permantent residency here (yes I know there are some exceptions, but it the norm that is important).

I cannot see much wrong with Thailand insisting that visiters to this country have the proper visas appropriate to their stay. Almost evry other country in the world does this. No one is saying farang are not welcome - just get your paper work sorted out.

[astral]

Hey can someone tell me the best place to go to get a visa right now. For tourist visas?

I expect you can get one in your home country.

[hhhhhhhttttttt2000]

Time up for some 30 day visa runners

Farangs living in Thailand with a 30 day stamp on arrival, and renewing it by continuous monthly visa runs to the Cambodian border, face big problems from next month. New regulations introduced on October 1 2006 mean that these farangs will currently be on their third 30 days visa run (October, November and December) with the limit of 90 days in a 6 months’ block about to bite.

Since October, immigration officers at Thai airports and border posts have been underlining 30 days stamps in visitors’ passports with a yellow marker pen.

Once three such stamps have been issued in a 6 months’ period, entrants are likely to be refused another in the short term. They are likely to be given a temporary 7 days’ stamp and told to quit Thailand for at least three months. These changes had been introduced by the immigration bureau nationally as it was felt the discretion of the 30 days stamp on arrival was being abused by foreigners trying to turn it into an unofficial residency permit.

Bureau chief police lieutenant general Suwat Tumrongsrikul had indicated that he had evidence that some such “residents” were running bars illegally or abusing Thai hospitality in other ways. If the perpetual 30 days on arrival farangs wish to continue to live in Thailand they have to break the cycle by leaving the country and requesting a prior visa (60 or 90 days) at a Thai consulate or embassy abroad. The most popular destinations in Asia are Penang and Vientiane, but most applicants are currently being restricted there to a single entry tourist visa (60 days plus an extension of 30 days).

The British embassy Pattaya based officer, Barry Kenyon, said all of the options needed financial resources. “Foreigners over 50 can apply for a one year retirement option,” he said, “but they need to have at least 800,000 baht made up of a Thai bank book deposit and probably proof of income or pension in their first country.” He added that men under 50 wanting a one year visa were mostly restricted to the “married man’s extension” or a valid work permit issued by the Labour office. Another option for foreigners with funds is to return to their own countries to obtain a multiple entry tourist or non-immigrant visa.

It is increasingly the pattern that multiple entries are being given only in the applicant’s home country. The Thai government recently introduced a new three year business visa, again awarded only in the first country, but this requires the support of the Thai commerce ministry or board of investment as well as proof of liaison with business partners in Thailand. A Pattaya based visa and travel agent said that he thought that some impecunious farangs might go into overstay as they could not afford to leave the country, thus risking jail and deportation procedures. But he wondered whether the new rules might be softened later in the year. “The whole thing was introduced without much notice, “he said, “and it might not be long term as it stands. Nobody knows.” The immigration bureau stresses that the new rules about 30 days do not apply to holiday tourists or holders of prior visas issued in countries outside Thailand.

A spokesman said tourists were very welcome and there were procedures in place to permit long stays. “We are concerned only with the abuse of the 30 days stamp by foreigners who are renewing it month after month after month at border posts. It is not a residency permit,” he explained.

--Pattaya Today 2006-12-16

http://www.pattayatoday.net/index.php?acti...ews&id=2030

either totally stupid or totally confused, so would someone help me

I have american 60 day tourist, starting sept 14. Bangkok Immigration added 30 days to that. Dec 12 I went to Cambodia, so now I

am good till Jan 10, 2007. How many times can I still go to cambodia

Please help

[astral]

(clue.. Get a second passport.. wow that was tough)..

Get a second passport and use that! These are definitely the words of a genius! How many people who do not have dual nationality can get a second passport legally? 'Lose' your passport and then file a false police report, a false declaration to your embassy and pick up your new passport. Then, because you still have your old passport with the entry stamp in it, use it to leave the country. That, as I said before, is a touch of genius and now all you have to do is explain why you are leaving the country on a VOID passport.

I cannot speak for other nationalities, but the British government will issue a second passport,

if you can justify the need.

1. Travelling to one country, and then to a second the does not recognise the first. Say Israel, then needing to visit an arab country.

2. Need to trave whilst your passport is with an embassy to obtain a visa.

There may be other acceptable reasons.

A friend who works for a major newspaper has no less that 7 UK passports.

[astral]

Thailand needs teachers to teach their population proper English. Thailand has a very poor level of English knowledge... considering if they've been through high school and college they've had quite a bit. There are plenty of expats living here and speaking English and yet -go to Ubon and you will be hard pressed to find someone speaking enough English to accomplish anything at all.

I wonder when the Thai's will get round to your point of view??

[Maestro]

No one need go home or god forbid South Africa.

South Africa is a nice tourist destination. The world is big and there are many countries aside from Thailand where it is congenial to spend a few months during Europe’s winter.

Anyway, for the poster who mentioned South Africa, who lives in Europe and has been spending 7 months every winter in Thailand, the new rules have changed nothing as far as I can see except that he can no longer stay a total of 7 months with monthly visa-exempt border runs. Instead, he could come with a double-entry tourist visa obtained from a Thai consulate in his home country, extend each 60-day entry by 30 days, then add one visa-exempt border run. Voilà, 7 months! Depending on his country of residence, a Thai consulate may even give him a multiple-entry non-O visa for visiting friends, although these appear to be more difficult to get nowadays.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

I have american 60 day tourist, starting sept 14. Bangkok Immigration added 30 days to that. Dec 12 I went to Cambodia, so now I

am good till Jan 10, 2007. How many times can I still go to cambodia

Two more times for visa-exempt entries for a 30-day stay per entry. Then, if you still haven’t seen enough of Thailand yet as a tourist, you need to get a new tourist visa from a Thai consulate somewhere in the world.

--

Maestro

[jetzie]

i'm a singaporean, looks from the case that when you're in your home country, you wouldnt have much problems recieving tourist visas?

so for me i could arrive in bangkok with a single 60days, and after the extention carry on with border runs, after which i can just return to my country (not that far and cheap if planned ahead with budget airlines) to get a tourist visa.

am i right on that ?

//Edited by Maestro

[ovenman]

i'm a singaporean, looks from the case that when you're in your home country, you wouldnt have much problems recieving tourist visas?

so for me i could arrive in bangkok with a single 60days, and after the extention carry on with border runs, after which i can just return to my country (not that far and cheap if planned ahead with budget airlines) to get a tourist visa.

am i right on that ?

//Edited by Maestro

Theoretically, yes, but your home country is so close and so easily accessible with the low-cost airlines, why mess around with making border runs from Bangkok? Or was this simply a rhetorical question?

[Maestro]

Yes, you are right on that, Jetzie. As long as you can convice the Thai consulate that you are a genuine tourist and do not work illegally in Thailand you can get a tourist visa every 6 months. But how will you make them believe that you are living in Thailand as a tourist for years on end?

--

Maestro

[rexall]

If they don't have sufficient resources to satisfy the visa regulations why should the Thai government allow them to enter?

Because the concept of "equal protection under the law" is a modern principle of international human rights that discourages government action which discriminates on the basis of race, religion, etc., including socio-economic status. True, adhering to principles of humane, fair and equal treatment may not always be convenient to a government who hopes to accomplish some end by enacting a law. However, it is no longer acceptable to just willy-nilly discriminate against poor people unless there are other very compelling issues at stake.

Aloha,

Rex

[stevenjm]

I think the value of the western farang is about to be understood.

The value of the western farang who comes here to do legitimate business or has the financial resources to obtain a retirement visa or comes as a tourist is already understood and Thailand continues to welcome them.

The western farang who hasn't the resources to do anything other than scurry across the border every 30 days before returning to some work that generates minimal income but no foreign exchange is also understood, which is why they want them to go home.

From your post I see you must be a happy holder of a visa and or work permit. You probably have sufficent funds in your account and live life happily here in Thailand. By reading your words when you talk about people scurrying across borders makes me see your care and concern for the elderly living in this country. Possibly they wish to reside here as the weather, taxes and quality of life back home make it hard for them to have a good life. Maybe they have worked hard all their lives but weren't as fortunate as you? Maybe they have a pension less than the required amount necessary to get a visa.

Do they spend their pension checks here? Oh yes Do they help the Thai economy? More than you know!

Where is you compassion for these people? So many westerners here have such a bad attitude towards there fellow country men? Are the 30 day visa runners of lower statue in life because they fall through the cracks of the Immigrtion regultions? Not all 30 day visa runners are scum! Many are good people who just wish a better life!

Try compassion for your fellow fanang not contempt!

Tim? (ozball)

[Pakboong]

I dont need your advice about economics thanks as I am not interested in it. I am talking about 'the so called 'tourists' who may contribute to the economy by spending money, however they are possibly evading paying taxes in Thailand and possibly their own countries simply by remaining as tourists.

Lets face it tourists are tourists and should expect to be treated respectfully in a foreign country but equally they should respect the country they are visiting by not trying to buck the system as so many do in Thailand and at last the rules are being tightened up.

No one ever heard of global terrorism? Any country with an open door policy is crazy.

I can understand why so many are upset with the rule changes but at the end of the day those people complaning are only TOURISTS on a temporary stay and cannot expect a country to change its laws to suit 'tourists'.

How many long term 'tourists' are there? I am sure that those long term 'tourists' are a minority compared to the tourists who come here on their vacation and then go home, so I cannot see how their disapearance will have much effect on any economy.

I dont really care to be honest as I will be upfront with the proper authorities and pay taxes as necessary. If the laws change and I am unable to stay then I will sell up and go else where. Thailand is not the end all and be all.

If you are not eligible for a 'long term' Visa then sorry but youll have to go, end of.

Having proclaimed your ignorance of basic macro-economics and desire to remain in blissful ignorance, it behooves you to cease your pontifications about subject matter of which you are painfully and admittedly ignorant.

Your opinion about what constitutes a "tourist" is that, an opinion (i do not necessarily disagree btw)

You terrorism comment is illogical to put it mildly - please try Logic 101 at your nearest community college.

Your desire to pay taxes is admirable, though largely misplaced in Thailand - probably due to some childhood problem growing up in Scandinavia or some such place. The idea that "economic benefit = pay tax" is not a universal truism or a logical necessity.

The number of 30day visa-runner residents is very substantial and their contribution to local economy is significant. And remember, almost all of these people know a great deal more about the way the Kingdom operates than your average 14 day tourist.

As others have pointed out - the reason that 30 day visa-runner residents exist is because there is NO ADEQUATE VISA for the reasonably well heeled sub-50yo wishing to retire in Thailand, and for those over 50, the hassle and cost has been seen as far greater than the result, especially as Thai authorities have de-facto and/or explicitly accepted the model for decades. Many of the 30 day people will convert, but there will be a group for whom no adequate way to remain legally in the country will exist and their loss will be a net loss to the economy.

Sure, there are some wanting to be below the radar, they will have to find another shallow, but for most, it is just a great deal of hassle that they would rather be without.

It is also well to remember, farangs have almost no rights, we get nothing for free, and we pay "farang-price" for everything. 1 farang is not the economic equal of 1 thai - nor is the equal in legal terms - just ask Steve Millers family !

If Thais really succeed in implementing their xenophobic tendencies and driving the farangs away, it will be to the detriment of their economy - peiod. Same goes for every other developing nation. We have the wealth, capital knows no boundries, and we can vote with our feet.

That being said, I personally do not have a big problem with the 90/180 rule - its a pain, but I can live with it.

DrDweeb, please excuse me for butting into your disagreement with Phil. I must say, your mastery of written English is quite impressive. Your understanding of Thai macroeconomics is IMHO lacking. These thoughts are not original as they were provided me by a gentleman who became a Deputy Prime Minister. In fact, these thoughts were provided me over 30 years ago and are totally relevent today. This is a all about a socio-economic class struggle. Poor Issan Thais being empowered by Farang dollars. A gradual but quite real anomoly. The Thai urban professional does not want his next door neighbor to be an Issan farm girl with a half farang baby. And they certainly do not want to pay Farang prices for their new home.