lucky11 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Thaidream said: The police refused to present a verifiable chain of custody log because none existed. I do not know for a fact that the defense did not request the log or if true why they would not want it or why the court never requested it. I would need the complete court transcript to verify this. However, I surmise that if it existed- the police would have provided it without any fuss. In my mind the DNA evidence is flawed. You do not need to prove innocence. The prosecutor did not prove guilt which means the accused are innocent until proven guilty. Has anyone noticed that the defence team is up in arms over this? Oh wait, they are not!! Seems they expected this decision, I wonder why that is? When a gun runs out of bullets and you only have blanks left, it doesn't leave you with many options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, sanemax said: Thats the point . Im not saying the Judge made the wrong decision by going on the evidence Its been alleged that the verdict was a deliberate miss carriage of justice in order to protect the image of Thailand and to also protect some people who may be carrying out illegal activity on the Islands !!!!!!!! "Im not saying the Judge made the wrong decision by going on the evidence" Well that's reassuring. Lol!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, lucky11 said: Has anyone noticed that the defence team is up in arms over this? Oh wait, they are not!! Seems they expected this decision, I wonder why that is? When a gun runs out of bullets and you only have blanks left, it doesn't leave you with many options. Perhaps because a HIGHER court needs to be brought in eh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGareth2 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 no new evidence And I read it was the same trial judge if that was the case result as was expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Just now, transam said: Perhaps because a HIGHER court needs to be brought in eh.... Well, they are in the last chance saloon now - I personally doubt that the defence team has the evidence to make it worthwhile appealing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eligius Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, transam said: Perhaps because a HIGHER court needs to be brought in eh.... The trouble is that no court or institution - to the very highest - can be trusted to be just and fair in Thailand. Corruption and unethicality are the norm here, the name of the game - not the rare exception. And the fact that the Defence expected the final ruling does not prove anything: nearly all of us expected the 'guilty' verdict - but that does not mean that it was right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenterry Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, lucky11 said: Don't need to - just going on what the judge concluded which is that the DNA evidence was what convicted them!! He actually stated that the DNA evidence trumps all else. However, this so-called evidence is merely hearsay, as it was a one page report with crossing outs and alterations on it. As no original DNA samples were produced with a myriad of reasons why they weren't available (if they actually existed), the verdict (as presented) was unsafe whether or not the B2 were otherwise involved in the crimes. Any reasonable person would concur. In the main, that was what this appeal was all about, discrediting the DNA evidence as being unreliable. Both legally and scientifically it should never have been accepted by the court. That the same judge ignored the defence's submission is an indictment of the Thailand justice system to the continual furtherance of non-admittance of facts and truth over saving face (or more covert reasons). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Just now, AGareth2 said: no new evidence And I read it was the same trial judge if that was the case result as was expected Up to the defence team to supply new evidence. Seems tey were unable to!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGareth2 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 no new evidence is allowed 5 minutes ago, lucky11 said: Up to the defence team to supply new evidence. Seems tey were unable to!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 23 minutes ago, lucky11 said: My take, is that it implicated them so completely that when the defence team finally got to see the evidence..................!! Know that saying 'no leg to stand on'? we got it, thx for sharing your opinion, I don't see anything else you can add so why not go spam some other forum were people might actually be interested in what you have to say - have fun trying to find one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, AGareth2 said: no new evidence is allowed What was the point of the appeal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 And no new evidence is needed. The current evidence does not prove guilt at all and in fact sheds a suitable amount of doubt. The Supreme Court will most likely set them free. This is not the first case like this in Thailand. There have been others in which the Supreme Court overruled the original conviction; the appeal and set free those jailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 More troll posts (and replies) have been removed from this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenterry Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, lucky11 said: Up to the defence team to supply new evidence. Seems tey were unable to!! The appeal court does not admit ANY new evidence, as the appeal needs to be based on the trial's evidence (or lack of it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Thaidream said: And no new evidence is needed. The current evidence does not prove guilt at all and in fact sheds a suitable amount of doubt. The Supreme Court will most likely set them free. This is not the first case like this in Thailand. There have been others in which the Supreme Court overruled the original conviction; the appeal and set free those jailed. "doesn't prove guilt at all"? Yes it DID - the judge deemed it so, can anything be more clear and explicit than what he determined in passing his verdict? Your opinions are worthless and count for nothing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Thaidream said: The posts by Smedley are the most logical and well thought out and explained. My take on the situation is similar: 1. The crime scene was not sealed- people were walking all over it and the murder weapon could well have bee moved by the perpetrator. 2. The DNA evidence is flawed and has to be excluded from the case- there is no chain of custody; the analysis is incorrect and there is nothing to retest that would change anything because we do not know if it is an original sample. 3. the investigation was flawed- possible coerced confessions; using an interpreter off the street; lost potential evidence or no analysis of it; no investigation of what happened in the bar etc. 4. The B2 have no motive- they were on the beach drinking- but why all of a sudden would they decide to murder 2 tourists- the prosecutor says they were aroused from watching- utter nonsense and conjecture. Had I been on a jury and heard this case- I would have voted not guilty. The Prosecutor did not make the case and there is no real evidence. I firmly believe that the key to this case is what happened in the bar and everything that did happen flows from that incident.I don't know if the defense hired a private investigator but there are people out there who know exactly what happened and why it happened and who the guilty people are. I expect this case to go to the Supreme Court and I would venture a guess they will be exonerated and set free. If this happens no further investigation will occur because of the time that has lapsed and the other obvious reasons that have already been discussed. Nobody is going to argue with the Supreme Court and face saving all around. Ideal end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, lucky11 said: "doesn't prove guilt at all"? Yes it DID - the judge deemed it so, can anything be more clear and explicit than what he determined in passing his verdict? Your opinions are worthless and count for nothing!! I think YOU do not realise that the DNA thing was a farce, but the guy who makes the verdict decision seems to not understand that it was, a jury of 12 would have seen it was a farce..Even I can.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, elgordo38 said: Nobody is going to argue with the Supreme Court and face saving all around. Ideal end. Your opinion. Not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, lucky11 said: Your opinion. Not mine. We are all entitled. Welcome with your different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorristheRunt Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 A simple fact.....These two would never had gone to trial in any civilised court in the world. The people responsible for allowing this sham trial and more importantly allowing the true murders to walk freely and probably murder again, should be ashamed and as Buddhist's , karma will come back to haunt them. The murder of two innocent tourists is horrendous, to murder two innocent Burmese lives is simply unacceptable and is state sponsored murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, stephenterry said: The appeal court does not admit ANY new evidence, as the appeal needs to be based on the trial's evidence (or lack of it). well it seems there are certain parties that are bent on taking this thread down a rat hole by trolling baiting and spaming Part of a Judges remit is to ensure that all parties involved strictly follow procedure and protocol to recognised international standards - it is very obvious that something failed somewhere, lets also not forget that the judge/s is/are not DNA experts or forensic scientists, they would have to rely on the integrity of those presenting and also possibly consult independent agencies and experts for guidance, there is a glaringly obvious failure with every aspect of this case - lets hope that the high court in Thailand actually has the means professionalism and ability to unravel what has gone on here and puts this right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Lucky 11 My opinions are as good or bad as yours and you do not have to accept it. I would remind you that the purpose of appeals and higher courts are to review a prior judge's decision and determine if that decision was correct. In some cases the original judge is over ruled. This case is going to the Thai Supreme Court. I will wait for their decision but I expect it to be positive and the accused to be set free. That is my opinion.....and I believe I have the right to have one whether you accept it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorristheRunt Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 In a murder trial the prosecution must show a motive, evidence and the most important, show without reasonable doubt these two committed the murders. IT FAILED ON ALL COUNTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Thaidream said: Lucky 11 My opinions are as good or bad as yours and you do not have to accept it. I would remind you that the purpose of appeals and higher courts are to review a prior judge's decision and determine if that decision was correct. In some cases the original judge is over ruled. This case is going to the Thai Supreme Court. I will wait for their decision but I expect it to be positive and the accused to be set free. That is my opinion.....and I believe I have the right to have one whether you accept it or not. If it fails to get over turned then you will accept the result that they are guilty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorristheRunt Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Anyone who believes these two committed this gruesome act is either naïve and foolish or just a pure evil bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenterry Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Legally, the verdict was unsafe (IMO) if based on DNA evidence as the state's cornerstone. Even a layman could understand that. I believe the Supreme court (in a few years time) could also agree. Whether or not the sentence would be overturned or commuted to lesser charges, e.g theft of phone/sunglasses/illegal immigrant is debatable. Even lesser charges could mean a long jail term depending on the King's leniency, which maybe the best the B2 could hope for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 The posts by Smedley are the most logical and well thought out and explained. My take on the situation is similar: 1. The crime scene was not sealed- people were walking all over it and the murder weapon could well have bee moved by the perpetrator. 2. The DNA evidence is flawed and has to be excluded from the case- there is no chain of custody; the analysis is incorrect and there is nothing to retest that would change anything because we do not know if it is an original sample. 3. the investigation was flawed- possible coerced confessions; using an interpreter off the street; lost potential evidence or no analysis of it; no investigation of what happened in the bar etc. 4. The B2 have no motive- they were on the beach drinking- but why all of a sudden would they decide to murder 2 tourists- the prosecutor says they were aroused from watching- utter nonsense and conjecture. Had I been on a jury and heard this case- I would have voted not guilty. The Prosecutor did not make the case and there is no real evidence. I firmly believe that the key to this case is what happened in the bar and everything that did happen flows from that incident.I don't know if the defense hired a private investigator but there are people out there who know exactly what happened and why it happened and who the guilty people are. I expect this case to go to the Supreme Court and I would venture a guess they will be exonerated and set free. If this happens no further investigation will occur because of the time that has lapsed and the other obvious reasons that have already been discussed.I'm sure that you are right, there are people out there who know what happened. They also know I am sure that if they pop up above the parapet, they are probably signing their own death warrant.The power of the "mafia" has to be broken first, but they are probably very very well connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorristheRunt Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, stephenterry said: Legally, the verdict was unsafe (IMO) if based on DNA evidence as the state's cornerstone. Even a layman could understand that. I believe the Supreme court (in a few years time) could also agree. Whether or not the sentence would be overturned or commuted to lesser charges, e.g theft of phone/sunglasses/illegal immigrant is debatable. Even lesser charges could mean a long jail term depending on the King's leniency, which maybe the best the B2 could hope for. There lives are now in great danger, the people who put them in this dark place will want them silenced permanently and quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eligius Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 20 minutes ago, JAG said: I'm sure that you are right, there are people out there who know what happened. They also know I am sure that if they pop up above the parapet, they are probably signing their own death warrant. The power of the "mafia" has to be broken first, but they are probably very very well connected. Yes, they are VERY well connected ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoDan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, MorristheRunt said: There lives are now in great danger, the people who put them in this dark place will want them silenced permanently and quickly. Comment based on assumption not facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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