TM 30, TM 28, ... in Pattaya

[NanLaew]

On 3/5/2017 at 7:42 PM, Lovethailandelite said:

I really cannot be bothered going through this again with you other than to say if you think that it's just a case of someone having a bee in there bonnet then that bee has a caused a nice, shiny new office to be opened just for this one purpose, ground floor, far left as you enter. The person who refused your TM30 was wrong and you very obviously offered it to the wrong desk and person. They have now most likely cost you a fine when you next extend for failing to report. Maybe you should jump in your car if your really interested and attempt to do it? Just don't attempt to hand it in to the reception area or anywhere other than the correct office.

It may disappoint you to learn that the person who refused my TM30 form during my extension filing LAST YEAR was the same person who processed my retirement extension THIS YEAR and never asked for it. I wasn't fined or asked to go to the shiny new office in the room in the far left corner. Neither have my two friends who have been filing extensions and reporting dutifully for the same period. I will admit that while waiting to submit my extension, I did observe several rather noisome foreigners hovering around the door to the shiny new office in the room in the far left corner and surmised that maybe they either had some sort of irregularity or were doing some sort of patronage thing for whatever reason.

 

I find the receptionists to be very helpful these days; they can quickly see someone who has all the paperwork in place, acknowledging that some visitors already know what they are doing there and hand them a ticket for the correct desk. At the same time, they help the totally clueless who have fronted up totally unprepared. It wasn't always like that and was a proper shambles before they reorganized the desks which was what, over two years ago?

 

Now, did the receptionists look at your paperwork and say, "Where's your TM30?" and direct you to the shiny new office in the room in the far left corner? Or did you bypass them because you know much better, waving your TM30 about , asking where it needed to be filed or did you find this shiny new office in the room in the far left corner all on your own?

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

It may disappoint you to learn that the person who refused my TM30 form during my extension filing LAST YEAR was the same person who processed my retirement extension THIS YEAR and never asked for it. I wasn't fined or asked to go to the shiny new office in the room in the far left corner. Neither have my two friends who have been filing extensions and reporting dutifully for the same period. I will admit that while waiting to submit my extension, I did observe several rather noisome foreigners hovering around the door to the shiny new office in the room in the far left corner and surmised that maybe they either had some sort of irregularity or were doing some sort of patronage thing for whatever reason.

 

I find the receptionists to be very helpful these days; they can quickly see someone who has all the paperwork in place, acknowledging that some visitors already know what they are doing there and hand them a ticket for the correct desk. At the same time, they help the totally clueless who have fronted up totally unprepared. It wasn't always like that and was a proper shambles before they reorganized the desks which was what, over two years ago?

 

Now, did the receptionists look at your paperwork and say, "Where's your TM30?" and direct you to the shiny new office in the room in the far left corner? Or did you bypass them because you know much better, waving your TM30 about , asking where it needed to be filed or did you find this shiny new office in the room in the far left corner all on your own?

Glad it worked out for you.  All it proves, is that enforcement is arbitrary - which I define as, "there are no rules we know which determine who gets 'enforced' on."  There may be some rules, somewhere, but all I know of this is:

The sign with the big warning, the receptionist who said, "Yes, you need to report over there," the new slip I received when I went to the "shiny new office" next to the copier, the other couple in that office shelling out 4000 Baht while I was there, and the lady who gave me the slip who told me I did the right thing. 

 

When I apply for my next extension, I will have no worries - worth it to me.  To each their own.

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Glad it worked out for you.  All it proves, is that enforcement is arbitrary - which I define as, "there are no rules we know which determine who gets 'enforced' on."  There may be some rules, somewhere, but all I know of this is:

The sign with the big warning, the receptionist who said, "Yes, you need to report over there," the new slip I received when I went to the "shiny new office" next to the copier, the other couple in that office shelling out 4000 Baht while I was there, and the lady who gave me the slip who told me I did the right thing. 

 

When I apply for my next extension, I will have no worries - worth it to me.  To each their own.

Thanks for that. In your case you saw the signage and decided to "do the right thing" and file a TM30? I assume that unlike the unfortunate people that you mention in your post, that you didn't get fined but are now locked into filing these reports? If one is a frequent traveler inside the country, this would seriously increase the amount of times one would need to visit regional Immigration offices, most of which don't seem to give a hoot about it.

 

Unlike the other proponent of TM30 filing on this thread who unfortunately seems to have been fined more than once, you aren't into scaremongering and suggesting that just because one hasn't been 'caught' yet, that it is an inevitability. You are correct in that, just like enforcement of driving laws, it appears totally arbitrary and I stand by my judgement that right now at Jomtien Immigration, it is still very much a 'bee in the bonnet' of a few people working there versus a hive of angry bees stinging everyone that walks through the door. If one wants to 'come clean' and 'bite the bullet' and surrender oneself to TM30 obeisance in addition to 90-day reporting, I would suggest that one also stop at each and every police check point one encounters and regardless of being within the legal speed limits and/or wearing helmet and having a valid license, just give them money anyway.

 

The multi-page personal information sheet came and went in most immigration jurisdictions and despite there being a law regarding the correct TM30 procedure, I will be surprised if it ever becomes a blanket, nationwide money grab by Immigration. By the same token, stranger things have happened.

[JackThompson]

36 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Thanks for that. In your case you saw the signage and decided to "do the right thing" and file a TM30? I assume that unlike the unfortunate people that you mention in your post, that you didn't get fined but are now locked into filing these reports? If one is a frequent traveler inside the country, this would seriously increase the amount of times one would need to visit regional Immigration offices, most of which don't seem to give a hoot about it.

 

Unlike the other proponent of TM30 filing on this thread who unfortunately seems to have been fined more than once, you aren't into scaremongering and suggesting that just because one hasn't been 'caught' yet, that it is an inevitability. You are correct in that, just like enforcement of driving laws, it appears totally arbitrary and I stand by my judgement that right now at Jomtien Immigration, it is still very much a 'bee in the bonnet' of a few people working there versus a hive of angry bees stinging everyone that walks through the door. If one wants to 'come clean' and 'bite the bullet' and surrender oneself to TM30 obeisance in addition to 90-day reporting, I would suggest that one also stop at each and every police check point one encounters and regardless of being within the legal speed limits and/or wearing helmet and having a valid license, just give them money anyway.

 

The multi-page personal information sheet came and went in most immigration jurisdictions and despite there being a law regarding the correct TM30 procedure, I will be surprised if it ever becomes a blanket, nationwide money grab by Immigration. By the same token, stranger things have happened.

To be honest, I didn't notice the sign until I read about this issue here, then had my eyes open for it.  I'm just covering my backside, as it were.  As to the checkpoints analogy, most moto-drivers not wearing helmets and driving without licenses are not fined - I wear a helmet anyway, and don't drive, since I don't have a license which is legal here.  The point is, we don't know who will be flagged into this immigration-version of a checkpoint.  I appreciate the reports of those who say, "nothing happened," as this could help us find a pattern as to what the "secret formula" is, which leads to some being fined.

[NanLaew]

41 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

To be honest, I didn't notice the sign until I read about this issue here, then had my eyes open for it.  I'm just covering my backside, as it were.  As to the checkpoints analogy, most moto-drivers not wearing helmets and driving without licenses are not fined - I wear a helmet anyway, and don't drive, since I don't have a license which is legal here.  The point is, we don't know who will be flagged into this immigration-version of a checkpoint.  I appreciate the reports of those who say, "nothing happened," as this could help us find a pattern as to what the "secret formula" is, which leads to some being fined.

I totally agree that trying to define who they are targeting as well as why is quite important. In your instance, just an honest, up-front but otherwise unsolicited TM30 filing so you and other more honest types could possibly be the placebo in this exercise? It would be interesting to see the exact circumstances some others have been pulled aside for the extra scrutiny and wallet-lightening. It seems to be coincident with the revelations that less than 30% of hotels and guest houses in the area are legally registered to trade as such. It could be those who are using known, non-registered accommodations as their local address or those owning or managing such businesses? For example (and once again up in Udon) several foreign-owned businesses have been put through all sorts of extra grief by various government departments from extra health inspections to insisting that all Thai employees be on a salary and not hourly rate. This is regardless of the fact that the foreign employer is complying fully with minimum wage, tax and social security obligations, in order to fulfill their annual extensions. A few, in the face of ridiculously onerous requirements have thrown in the towel.

Edited March 8, 2017 by NanLaew