In day of pro-Trump rallies, California march turns violent

[Shawn0000]

10 minutes ago, tomwct said:

The two largest welfare states in America is California & New York. These radicals, causing problems, are mostly paid by Moveon.org financed by George Soros & the DNC. They lost the election and can't MOVE-On. Their worried about their welfare & Food Stamps being cut, so you expect problems in those states especially the city of Berkeley. They hate freedom of speech unless your a lefty! I'm in

the states now and no problems in 95% of other areas. I can't wait for the 2018 elections because the Dems will be slaughtered especially in the Red States where 10 Dem Senators are up for re-election. Most Americans are tired of the BS from the Left!

 

Oh, and the "radicals causing problems" in this case were Trump supporters firing tear gas at those who oppose him, funny to think of those being fired upon as the trouble makers, but I guess this is the age of alternative facts, might as well have a go yourself, right?

[Shawn0000]

36 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

It's no secret that some of the worst anti-Trump bigots show up on here to bash the president. To hear them tell it, republicans are racist thugs who have subverted all forms of civilised living, yet it is democrat mobs that are fomenting all the violence and destruction of property.

 

Their hypocrisy beggars belief. All they have is unsubstantiated claims trotted out by their anti trump media outlets.

 

I read a piece in the new yorker that basically agreed that nothing wrong was done with sessions  and flynn meeting the russians.

But they just had to add this barb: looks like we have a cover-up but no crime. I have to laugh at these morons.

 

Truth is, I don't care if his people spoke to the russians…as long as they didnt pass on any technology secrets(and if they did we want conclusive proof, not accusations). The democrat strategy seems to be to implement death by a thousand cuts…so every week they will come up with some inconsequential accusation with no real proof. better get used to it for the next 4 years…maybe even 8.

 

 

 

 

 

The only one thing you would be concerned with is technology secrets?  Why?

Edited March 5, 2017 by Shawn0000

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

33 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

It's no secret that some of the worst anti-Trump bigots show up on here to bash the president. To hear them tell it, republicans are racist thugs who have subverted all forms of civilised living, yet it is democrat mobs that are fomenting all the violence and destruction of property.

 

Their hypocrisy beggars belief. All they have is unsubstantiated claims trotted out by their anti trump media outlets.

 

I read a piece in the new yorker that basically agreed that nothing wrong was done with sessions  and flynn meeting the russians.

But they just had to add this barb: looks like we have a cover-up but no crime. I have to laugh at these morons.

 

Truth is, I don't care if his people spoke to the russians…as long as they didnt pass on any technology secrets(and if they did we want conclusive proof, not accusations). The democrat strategy seems to be to implement death by a thousand cuts…so every week they will come up with some inconsequential accusation with no real proof. better get used to it for the next 4 years…maybe even 8.

 

 

 

 

 

Well it is good to know what a Brit thinks about US intelligence breaches.

 

Opponents to the Giant Clown merely react to the daily menu of goods, cock ups and stupidity that emerges from the person and his Office. He is the one wielding the blade that is inflicting the wounds.

 

We see massive abandonment by his former supporters. We see the beads of sweat appearing on the brows of the fanatics like you and the increasingly desperation of the attempts to deny, deflect and distract.

 

You really don't comprehend the issue of the Russian involvement in the Campaign. Your support for such potential breaches is entirely disconnected from the risks posed by the real World.

[JHolmesJr]

Just now, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

You really don't comprehend the issue of the Russian involvement in the Campaign. 

I do….their strategy is called 'hybrid war' and it is planned by a brilliant general called valery gerasimov.

 

But no details have been provided by those who kvetch…it's all circumstantial, at best.

 

The US routinely interferes in other countries' electoral process and backs candidates who would be more sympathetic to their interests.

 

So what? It makes more sense to spend energy defending against such threats rather than pointing the finger after the event.

 

Most of these alleged breaches took place during the obama years….his people were too dumb to pick up on it. Now they use their failings to conveniently target mr trump.

 

 

[sandrabbit]

What I don't understand is why he has to comment on Arnie and things like this on twitter, surely as president there should be more pressing things?.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

40 minutes ago, hdkane said:

<removed> .i'm not ready to let you go just now...let's debate...for me, I believe that the problems of Blacks in the USA is attributable to the fact that there are average group differences in intelligence, with blacks scoring 85 on IQ tests, while other groups score significantly higher...consequently, they have fewer problem solving abilities and this impacts everything from academic achievement to criminality to adaptive behavior...<removed>

 

I assume that you are replying to my post even though you removed it for some reason.

 

Your reference to under-performance by Black people in IQ tests is characteristic of the laziness of presumptuous 'scholars' on this issue. Standardized testing is a lazy and superficial approach to assessing knowledge and competencies. The education system in the US has long been designed to teach to the test and is promoted by commercial profit seeking enterprises that produce instructional material.

 

Teaching to the Test is one thing, but racial, social, economic or cultural bias is another. The standardized tests that are used by administrators too ignorant and lazy to implement programs to truly evaluate the level of knowledge and competency of students all have a clear bias against those who do not meet the cultural norm.

 

You present the notion that Blacks underperform on IQ tests because they are Black. You claim that this indicates real differences in intelligence and by association, abilities.

 

I reject all your statements on 'Black Intelligence' and its associated impact on academic achievement, criminality and adaptive behavior as entirely the result of institutionalized bias built into inadequate, superficial and inadequate standardized testing, much admired by the lazy and entitled in the US education system.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

4 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

I do….their strategy is called 'hybrid war' and it is planned by a brilliant general called valery gerasimov.

 

But no details have been provided by those who kvetch…it's all circumstantial, at best.

 

The US routinely interferes in other countries' electoral process and backs candidates who would be more sympathetic to their interests.

 

So what? It makes more sense to spend energy defending against such threats rather than pointing the finger after the event.

 

Most of these alleged breaches took place during the obama years….his people were too dumb to pick up on it. Now they use their failings to conveniently target mr trump.

 

 

 

Well, I will have to take your word for Comrade Valery and his Hybrid War. Your information sounds worryingly like the theories being peddled in books like The Camp of the Saints, written by Jean Raspail published in 1975 and referred by Steven Bannon multiple times in speeches. A book that was described by Kirkus Reviews as Mien Kampf-like:

 

It takes important and chilling facts that very few people are willing to face, and digs into them like a hyena into carrion. Raspail's basic premise is irrefutable: in a few decades the non-white population of the world will outnumber the white

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/jean-raspail-2/the-camp-of-the-saints/

 

In any case, irrespective of Russian covert or overt action, I was more referring to the impact of this issue on the American psyche given its history and culture. The success of the 'vast Right Wing conspiracy' in defining the Clintons over the past 4 decades and discrediting her 2016 Campaign is bad enough. To think that there was foreign participation in this is unconscionable. Nothing to do with your Obama conspiracy theories and all to do with the battle against objective truth to achieve political power.

[55Jay]

2 hours ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

Yeah. Right. You may wish to rejoin the real world now.

 

Trump was elected with 8 percent of the black vote, 28 percent of the Hispanic vote and 27 percent of the Asian-American vote, according to the Reuters/Ipsos Election Day poll.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-polarization-analysis-idUSKBN13I10B

 

The real America consists of many non White non Male non Conformist citizens whose interests are now in jeopardy from the election of an incompetent, pandering egotist to the Presidency. No amount of wishful thinking will change reality.

Do you consider the blacks, hispanics and asians who voted for Trump, racists?  Are they, along with white male conformists, not included in your version of "real America"? 

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

Just now, 55Jay said:

Do you consider the blacks, hispanics and asians who voted for Trump, racists?  Are they, along with white male conformists, not included in your version of "real America"? 

 

What I consider is irrelevant. I certainly would have a more complex and nuanced view of non whites who voted for 45 than you project. I will not delve into that since it would not support your narrative. I will say that those who champion majoritarian politics - Electoral College style - and treat the opposition from the 2016 election as 'losers' must acknowledge that a significant majority of non whites did not vote for the Candidate. 92% in the case of African Americans. By the rules of majoritarian politics, this is meaningful and cannot be diminished by trite suppositions about racism or 'real' Americans.

 

If there really is a movement, which I do not believe is the case, then donald is not its champion. In his hands it is more of a bowel movement than a social sea change. Take away disposed blue collar white males and the demographics will look more like previous elections. I have my own view on how to deal with the dispossessed blue collar white males that is nothing to do with ideology and more to do with economic practicality but acknowledging them as a social movement that will fundamentally change Western liberal democracies is not part of this. They are literally a dying breed and will be gone in another generation when politics will be far more liberal and progressive because non whites and non conformists will not stay silent and oppressed forever.

[sujoop]

1 hour ago, tomwct said:

The two largest welfare states in America is California & New York. These radicals, causing problems, are mostly paid by Moveon.org financed by George Soros & the DNC. They lost the election and can't MOVE-On. Their worried about their welfare & Food Stamps being cut, so you expect problems in those states especially the city of Berkeley. They hate freedom of speech unless your a lefty! I'm in

the states now and no problems in 95% of other areas. I can't wait for the 2018 elections because the Dems will be slaughtered especially in the Red States where 10 Dem Senators are up for re-election. Most Americans are tired of the BS from the Left!

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2016/11/29/another-clinton-trump-divide-high-output-america-vs-low-output-america/

[Morch]

30 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Do you consider the blacks, hispanics and asians who voted for Trump, racists?  Are they, along with white male conformists, not included in your version of "real America"? 

 

Far as I recall there were even women voting for him. Go figure. But perhaps they weren't "real Americans" too.

[Baerboxer]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

Maybe California should go for independence.

 

They could then apply to join the EU and take the UKs place as America's gateway to Europe

 

The UK could then become the 50th state as most English have more in common with Trump's views than the EU.

 

The UK could then be America's fixed aircraft carrier off the coast of Europe.

 

Er, coffee I think ?

 

Grouse you're anti English bias is becoming silly. This is a post about America.

 

Do you have any evidence most English people have more in common with Trumps views other than your own agenda driven opinion?

 

If so start a thread, post the evidence and we'll comment. If not, stay on topic.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

Your bourgeoise objections to Affirmative Action are not examples of your oppression. You wish to discuss Affirmative Action, fine, but it is not the same topic as the non-existence of Reverse Racism.

 

If you have been overlooked for promotion or scholarship in favor of a person of different skin color, then you may wish to attribute that to your contribution to compensating for historic and systematic oppression. I see, however, a particularly narrow-minded, petty and self-serving attitudes towards Affirmative Action and it is quite easy to see how such a mundane mind would interpret this as racism against whites.

 

Perhaps you might come up with something more substantial by way of your perceived oppression by non whites or we can look for a topic on Affirmative Action to discuss the issues that clearly have perturbed your white privilege to date.

 

Affirmative Action - a politically correct way for those so minded to try and absolve the sins of the past, the ones they perceive to be important that is, by penalizing some and giving benefit to others. Of course the politically correct have to be the ones to decide on who wins and who looses.

 

Never in a million years would you see that giving advantage to someone purely because of the color of his skin is as bad as depriving someone for the same reason. 

The obsession that White people are privilege and must be punished, and be seen to be punished and others especially black people must be given advantages, above and beyond whites, Asians, Native Americans, is not going to change the past and change history. These social engineering experiments in trying to create a "fair" society by starting off favoring one group - be that because of race, religion, political vies or sexual orientation is wrong. Just as the Nazis and Stalinists were wrong with their ideas on social engineering.

 

Any who don't instantly agree and bow down to the pc ideas are called narrow minded, petty, self serving with bad attitudes by the pc brigade who are too thick skinned to see the irony in that.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

44 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Affirmative Action - a politically correct way for those so minded to try and absolve the sins of the past, the ones they perceive to be important that is, by penalizing some and giving benefit to others. Of course the politically correct have to be the ones to decide on who wins and who looses.

 

Never in a million years would you see that giving advantage to someone purely because of the color of his skin is as bad as depriving someone for the same reason. 

The obsession that White people are privilege and must be punished, and be seen to be punished and others especially black people must be given advantages, above and beyond whites, Asians, Native Americans, is not going to change the past and change history. These social engineering experiments in trying to create a "fair" society by starting off favoring one group - be that because of race, religion, political vies or sexual orientation is wrong. Just as the Nazis and Stalinists were wrong with their ideas on social engineering.

 

Any who don't instantly agree and bow down to the pc ideas are called narrow minded, petty, self serving with bad attitudes by the pc brigade who are too thick skinned to see the irony in that.

 

The grumpy, toothless, impotent old white men. Stereotypical.

 

Clearly you lacked the capacity to take full advantage of your white privilege and become successful so remain embittered and sour about attempts to address the institutionalized oppression of minorities. That's your problem. Don't blame minorities for that. Since you are a Brit, then nasty Classism is your game. British racism against South Asians is a colonialist hangover and not related to the African American experience at all. But such distinctions are irrelevant to the old men shaking their fists at the sky about immigrants taking their benefits or colored people moving in down the road.

 

I would not discuss the issue of Affirmative Action in the US with a curmudgeonly Brit like you for any money. It would be utterly pointless. Fortunately, your sort are still in the minority despite Brexit, Trump and Le Penn. Your lack of respect for the dignity of others places you on the fringe of current thinking. You are welcome to stay there. I would happily discuss the issue of Affirmative Action with a legitimate, critical thinker who would not seize on any criticism as a victory for the Right against the Left.

 

You don't like non whites or non conformists. So what. You merely add to the current noise of nattering old men clapping their falsies together. The next generation of leaders will respect diversity. One might also suggest a more comprehensive understanding of the concept of irony. Nobody is telling you to be black or gay or anything else. We are just telling you that you have lost the culture wars and must subside into insignificance as such grumpy old men have done throughout time.

[ChakaKhan]

PROTIP.... STOP watching fox news on thai tv....

[Andaman Al]

2 hours ago, hdkane said:

I'm not that old...I'm white...objective...you come across as a fragile punk who cannot stand someone who actually thinks differently from your own point of view...;

 

I would gladly compare my life's record of sacrifice and work towards the common good to your's anyday...

 

1.  served in the us army 7 years...combat vet.

2. taught elementary school in the poorest zip code in the usa

3. donated 5,000 hours of professional service to the poor, mostly minority

4. donated more than 250000 usd to charity

5. established a charity

6. worked for the governments pro bono in 3 third world countries...including thailand 

 

Published over 30 refereed scholarly articles on multicultural issues

paid for the university of 3 students in therd world countries

 

you are a punk who thinks calling someone a racist puts an end to the conversation...do something you lazy punk...tell me and everyone about the good you've done for the world...you think just by calling racism you're doing something impressive...i've spent so much of my life dealing with punks like you, this is too easy.

My oh my, did happy hour go on a bit longer than planned?

 

Where did I ask you for your lifes work? I said in response to your racist post that you sounded like an old white racist and now full of beer by the sounds of it.

 

1. 20 years combat Pilot in the Brit Airforce - 3 wars - decorated.

2. Now I earn a million USD per month with my own large platform trading company

3. Have built (and paid for ) two schools for poor kids

4. Building another in the town I live in now

5. Have the plans and now land to build a nursing Home for elderly poverty stricken folk in the province where we live

6. Far more refined and civilised to call someone I do not know a 'punk' in fact a 'lazy punk'.

 

 

So you just carry on writing stuff that makes you the white victim.

[hawker9000]

9 hours ago, Grouse said:

Impeachment will change it

 

[kamahele]

18 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

Seems to me as an outsider non American, that anti Trump is made up of thugs,looters and criminals in general. When antiTrump people protest they riot ,loot and cause general violent behavior. When pro Trumps have a rally to show support anti Trump thugs show up and start violence. Perhaps anti Trump do not want a better America. Anti Trumps appear to lean towards violence and  criminal activity. Could that be representative of Democrat attitude?

  The more this unfolds the more it mirrors Thailand with how Democratics deal with things,all ever the world.Trump seems to be the Thaksin American style.

And you formed you opinion on what? This article which doesn't state who started the fracas or the fact that the conservative media lumps anarchists and trouble makers in with Liberals and those who oppose Trump?

[kowpot]

Can't wait for the final showdown. The Libs against the Conservatives. I think we should just get it over with.  A fight to the finish. I mean a real fight, all the killing and maiming that goes with it. Let's destroy each other's towns and cities. We can watch them all burn.  

 

  There has been enough talk. Let's get it on.  Those that are standing in the end can just stare in horror and say to each other, "what have we done?"  Would it be wise to start over or just go on the way we have been doing?  

 

   If I had to guess,  I would say the big question would be " How could this have happened? How could we as a nation that has come together on so many occasions when catastrophe has struck, how could we have been so stupid?" 

 

  This might sound ridiculous.   Well no one thought over a million americans would suffer the winds of war over states rights either.

 

 

[craigt3365]

12 hours ago, kowpot said:

 

From where are you getting your facts that Trump supporters seem to be dwindling. I see no evidence of that.  

https://mic.com/articles/170135/trump-approval-rating-here-s-how-public-sentiment-has-changed-since-trump-s-inauguration#.SO1kcMguq

Quote

 

Trump's approval rating a month into his presidency was 40%, according to Gallup — significantly lower than the average approval rating in mid-February for new presidents, which is 61%.

...

On the weekend of his inauguration, Trump managed to have the lowest initial approval rating of any president in Gallup's polling history: 45%. According to Gallup, he was the first elected president to begin a term with an approval rating below 50%.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2017 by craigt3365

[Ahab]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I never said you are a racist. I don't know you to say either way. This isn't about you or me. It's about trump and his alt-right WHITE NATIONALIST movement in the white house. Duh!

Just because you keep repeating an accusation "alt-right white nationalist movement" does not make it true. Provide just one shred of evidence that DJT or Steve Bannon or anyone else in the administration is part of a "white nationalist movement". I have looked, and I haven't found anything that would lead me to that conclusion. Some of these agencies need to be taken down a notch or two, they are creating regulations that have the force of law and are bypassing (legally via the administrative procedures act) the procedures for making laws (congress passes then the President signs).

[Ahab]

11 hours ago, chilli42 said:

I have to agree.  I find myself very conflicted by the man.  What I like is that he is the very first President in ages that is focused on changing many things that desperately need change.  The Democrats, other than Sanders, were content to let the same disgraceful practices continue.  Does Immigration need overhaul, is education in need of change, does big pharma need to be brought down to earth, is free global trade really benefiting the American public and can it be managed less for the benefit of corporations and more for the public, are the EPA and FDA in need of major reorganization, does government regulation and bureaucracy need to be slashed. can the affordable care act be dramatically improved etc etc.  YES. Of course the downside of this man is the way he gets things done/wants to get things done and his obsession with the cult of Donald.  

 

The original poster is right.  He is the President for the next four years and maybe longer .... deal with it.  Why not channel all that negative Trump energy into positive action to get the kind of change that is needed but done but in a way that the country can live with.  

I am also conflicted with the orange menace. I think the guy is not very knowledgeable and in many ways a buffoon, but I like what he has said he is going to do, and some of the actions taken to date. Chopping some of the government agencies down a notch or two, enforcing current law including immigration law (something all Presidents take an oath to do), redoing trade deals that are not equally to the advantage of the USA, doing something to try to fix inner city schools, and cutting the budget.  

[Ahab]

11 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

https://mic.com/articles/170135/trump-approval-rating-here-s-how-public-sentiment-has-changed-since-trump-s-inauguration#.SO1kcMguq

 

The latest I saw he is at 53% approval.

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, kamahele said:

And you formed you opinion on what? This article which doesn't state who started the fracas or the fact that the conservative media lumps anarchists and trouble makers in with Liberals and those who oppose Trump?

What conservative media? Give me a fricking break, besides Brietbart, AM talk radio, and FOX there isn't "conservative media" in the USA. The anarchists and trouble makers are lumped in with the leftests who oppose Trump because that is who they are. They are one and the same which is why they are correctly grouped together. When the peaceful leftist protesters cheer on the violent anarchists as happened at USC Berkley they are correctly lumped together.

[craigt3365]

23 minutes ago, Ahab said:

The latest I saw he is at 53% approval.

There is one poll out there that doesn't have much credibility.  It is slanted towards Trump.  The gold standard is this one, used for many years for things like this.  And shows 42% right now.  Which means a majority of American's do not approve of Trump's job.

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

[Grouse]

10 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Grouse you're anti English bias is becoming silly. This is a post about America.

 

Do you have any evidence most English people have more in common with Trumps views other than your own agenda driven opinion?

 

If so start a thread, post the evidence and we'll comment. If not, stay on topic.

Firstly, I don't have an agenda; I don't really care

 

Secondly, my comment was intended as a witticism.

 

Having said that, I do believe that there is indeed a correlation between Brexiteers and Trump supporters on several levels including isolationism, anti globalisation and, yes, xenophobia if not outright racism.

 

I also do consider California to be more pro social democracy and thus closer to EU area attitudes

 

I'm not so much anti English as hugely disappointed at the attitudes of so many. Just listen to some of these people on question time for example.

 

As you say, this is off topic and to bring it back in line, I think California (and Oregon and Washington) may consider leaving the union of Trump is not removed.

[kowpot]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

https://mic.com/articles/170135/trump-approval-rating-here-s-how-public-sentiment-has-changed-since-trump-s-inauguration#.SO1kcMguq

 

That's Gallop. Known to censor mainly the N.E. United States the most.  Have you ever been  called by Gallop? Me neither. Have never met anyone who has. 

 I am not saying Trump doesn't have very low approval ratings going into his presidency.  But, different polls get different results.  Why don't they ever take a poll in the southern states? 

Why don't they poll the military more? 

This according to the Washington Examiner..........

   U.S. military plainly tilts toward the GOP. That’s largely because today’s military is an all-volunteer force increasingly drawn from the Sunbelt, where the Pentagon has focused its recruiting efforts since the draft ended 40 years ago. And traits the military prizes — like aggressiveness and respect for authority — tend to be more pronounced in conservatives.

  Because they know what the answer will be. 

 I concede Trump is a wild card. But, to me he is the lessor of two evils. I say,  and just my thoughts.  Let him rant and rave but at least give him more than a month.  IF he falters or fails to make good on his promises.  The American citizen, not just the Libs will soon let him know. 

 

[geriatrickid]

It is a mistake to term this as a "liberal" vs. "conservative" fight.

Make no mistake, many conservatives are not supporters of Trump because;

- They are suspicious of the links to Russia

- They dislike Steve Banon and the extremists of Breitbart who  hold sway in the WH now

- They believe in fiscal restraint and the  Trump plans  will push a massive deficit on the USA, with increased military spending on projects the US military doesn't need or want, reducing foreign directed spending which the US military and  industry needs to support its objectives, and cutting taxes for the  very wealthy who do not need a tax reduction, but  should have a tax increase.

- They believe in free trade

 

There are many "liberals" who support Trump because;

- He is espousing protectionist trade policies

- He blames "wall street" even though his cabinet is made up of some of the most unqualified and scummiest of  people ever assembled.

- He advocates peace in our time by making nice with his BFF Putin

 

Many people  voted for Trump just so that they could give a big middle finger to the people who run the show. They are so full of despair and anger that they want to see the  ongoing disruption.

 

Many others were too lazy to vote and their indifference gave them this.

 

[55Jay]

7 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

My oh my, did happy hour go on a bit longer than planned?

 

Where did I ask you for your lifes work? I said in response to your racist post that you sounded like an old white racist and now full of beer by the sounds of it.

 

1. 20 years combat Pilot in the Brit Airforce - 3 wars - decorated.

2. Now I earn a million USD per month with my own large platform trading company

3. Have built (and paid for ) two schools for poor kids

4. Building another in the town I live in now

5. Have the plans and now land to build a nursing Home for elderly poverty stricken folk in the province where we live

6. Far more refined and civilised to call someone I do not know a 'punk' in fact a 'lazy punk'.

 

 

So you just carry on writing stuff that makes you the white victim.

That's awesome.  Love to see a photo of your house and grounds.

 

[the guest]

Reminds me of the remoaners in the UK with the Brexit, which still can't accept the democratic vote.