Diamond Scam ! ! !

[Grumpy Old Man]

I want to share a near miss with a "Diamond Scam".    

 

SORRY THIS IS A BIT LONG BUT WORTH IT, well I think so !

 

I've been asking my Thai wife what she'd like for her 45th birthday / anniversary which is coming up in March and after many weeks of "I don't know" . . . "I don't need anything" Etc. She finally showed me a photo of a very nice diamond ring she found through an online / Instagram shop sale; it was second hand but only purchased a month ago and the current owner wanted a bigger diamond "As they all do" and was offering the ring for sale with all original sales documents and a GIE certificate "Gemological Institute of Europe"

 

My wife contacted the seller and arranged an appointment to view the diamond ring at a local shopping mall where we had made arrangements for the diamond ring to be checked by a diamond specialist.

 

For those who don't know. . . .

 

When a diamond is examined and certified by the GIE the report / ID number is laser engraved onto the diamond and is clearly visible under a gemological microscope and copies of certificates are viewable online on their website to check certificates match Etc.

 

My wife had informed the seller of her intention to have the diamonds laser engraved ID number checked by a diamond specialist against the accompanying GIE certificate and the online records and she was very happy for this check; the seller informed my wife that she didn't even know there was an ID number on diamonds Etc.

 

On checking the diamond NO laser engraved report / ID number was found on the diamond and to add insult in injury the specialist told us that the diamond in the ring was far inferior in quality from the GIE diamond report; on hearing this the seller asked him to examine her new bigger diamond ring that she had purchased from the same jewellery / diamond dealer to the diamond ring she was now selling; also finding that there was NO laser engraved report / ID number but unfortunately she didn't have the GIE certificate for this diamond with her as a quality reference but I'd guess it wasn't to the quality stated on the GIE certificate.

 

The diamond specialist concluded that either the high quality diamond that had been submitted for GIE  certification had been removed and replaced with a far inferior quality stone before sale or the whole ring setting had been replaced with a copy using a far inferior quality stone.

 

We advised the seller to return to the jeweller where she bought both diamond rings and ask what the <deleted> is going on Etc.

 

We left her feeling very embarrassed but I don't blame her in the slightest as she would have never turned up with the diamond ring knowing it's ID was going to be checked and you should have seen the look on her face when the was no laser engraved report / ID number on her new 2.25 Carat diamond ring . . . Priceless ! ! 

 

My wife is very happy that I trust nobody and I CHECK CHECK and CHECK again ! !    

 

I hope our experience will help others to be more vigilant. . . . . 

 

 

[chickenslegs]

Thanks for posting. Always happy to learn something new.

 

But...

11 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

I've been asking my Thai wife what she'd like for her 45th birthday / anniversary which is coming up in March and after many weeks of "I don't know" . . . "I don't need anything" Etc...

That would have been my cue to buy her a new vacuum cleaner or something for the garden.

 

I'm joking of course - Mrs C would never say "I don't need anything".

[Andrew Dwyer]

Great story !
And yes it was well worth the read .

Edited March 7, 2017 by Andrew Dwyer

[ukrules]

When you need to look through a microscope and employ an expert just to tell the difference between something worth zero and something worth thousands of dollars I think it's worth asking....is it really worth that ?

 

I know the microscope was just looking for the number but there was no other way to tell was there ?

 

In my opinion 'diamonds' have only one real valid use and that's as cutting tools.

[bermondburi]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

When you need to look through a microscope and employ an expert just to tell the difference between something worth zero and something worth thousands of dollars I think it's worth asking....is it really worth that ?

 

I know the microscope was just looking for the number but there was no other way to tell was there ?

 

In my opinion 'diamonds' have only one real valid use and that's as cutting tools.

Strangely enough, my wife has just been buying some diamonds in Saudi. With good quality diamonds you can tell the difference. The way they shine in the light is incredible. 

Generally speaking the diamonds in Thailand are of a very low quality. If you want to be sure, best to buy from a reputable shop.

There are no shortcuts to a bargain with diamonds. 

[Berkshire]

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

When you need to look through a microscope and employ an expert just to tell the difference between something worth zero and something worth thousands of dollars I think it's worth asking....is it really worth that ?

 

I know the microscope was just looking for the number but there was no other way to tell was there ?

 

In my opinion 'diamonds' have only one real valid use and that's as cutting tools.

Actually, you're right.  Diamonds have almost no intrinsic value.  But in this crazy world we live in--even more so in the west--we've been brainwashed to believe that diamonds are rare (they're not) and therefore, a valuable expression of love (completely contrived).  But in reality, a diamond is just a shiny freakin rock! 

[Naam]

10 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Great story !
And yes it was well worth the read .

great story indeed but there's something important missing. on planet earth several hundred godzillion gemologists exist who are grading precious stones and issuing certificates. this profession is in most countries neither licensed nor does a gemologist have to submit proof to any authority that he/she is qualified. laser marking gadgets start at 2,000 US-Dollars, stones can be laser-marked for as little as 80 Dollars.

 

according to an acquaintance who is in the diamond business the summary of grading and its resulting value can differ up to 40% when done by different "experts". furthermore the date of valuation is important as diamonds fluctuate in price considerably.

 

rule of thumb: you buy a diamond on monday for 10,000 and want sell it on tuesday you will be lucky getting 60% of the value you paid a day ago.

[Naam]

8 hours ago, bermondburi said:

Strangely enough, my wife has just been buying some diamonds in Saudi. With good quality diamonds you can tell the difference. The way they shine in the light is incredible. 

no you can't! top quality cubic circonia or moisannite costing a fraction not only "shine in the light incredibly" too, but some shine (refract light) even better than real diamonds.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

  Diamonds have almost no intrinsic value. 

nothing has intrinsic value if there's no demand. try to sell a steak to a rancher who owns an 80,000 head cattle herd.

[Berkshire]

2 minutes ago, Naam said:

nothing has intrinsic value if there's no demand. try to sell a steak to a rancher who owns an 80,000 head cattle herd.

You can eat a steak.  You can talk to people on a smartphone.  You can drive your car to work.  A coat can keep you warm.  Etc.  A diamond is a near worthless piece of rock...except the marketing machine has convinced us that it has value.  The diamond engagement ring is probably the greatest marketing scheme in the history of mankind. 

[Naam]

32 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

You can talk to people on a smartphone.  You can drive your car to work.  A coat can keep you warm.  Etc.  A diamond is a near worthless piece of rock...

if you are stranded on a remote tropical island what intrinsic value has a warm coat or a smartphone? if you are jobless and have no money to buy gasoline what intrinsic value has a car?

 

intrinsic value does not exist. actual value of objects or knowledge depends on the circumstances.

[Berkshire]

50 minutes ago, Naam said:

if you are stranded on a remote tropical island what intrinsic value has a warm coat or a smartphone? if you are jobless and have no money to buy gasoline what intrinsic value has a car?

 

intrinsic value does not exist. actual value of objects or knowledge depends on the circumstances.

We're going around in circles here, but a lighter or a good knife would be worth a heck of a lot more on a remote tropical island than a 10 carat diamond ring.  I get that. 

 

Look, I live in the same society as you, so if and when I do get married, I'd probably have to get the future wife a diamond ring....assuming she wants one.  That's just the way it is.

[rak sa_ngop]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

no you can't! top quality cubic circonia or moisannite costing a fraction not only "shine in the light incredibly" too, but some shine (refract light) even better than real diamonds.

Sorry to be picky Naam but it is cubic zirconia or moissanite.  But yes you are right that cubic zirconia is man made and cheap as chips, but can have more sparkle than a real diamond. Moissanite gemstones are more expensive than CZ and are also man-made. They can also sparkle more than than real diamond.

[phuketrichard]

anyone that buys a diamond ANYWHERE that does not know their jeweler or diamonds is a fool

 

MY grandfather ran a very successful diamond jewelry store in Washington dc for over 30 years ( and where i got my start)

his moto was

 

"If you dont know ur diamonds, know ur jeweler."

 

 

Quote

The diamond engagement ring is probably the greatest marketing scheme in the history of mankind.

AGREE 100%  De Beers did a great scam...

https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/diamond-de-beers-marketing-campaign

 

Quote

 

One of the biggest assets in a married couple's relationship, the diamond engagement ring, might be an emotional asset and a symbol of love and commitment -- but in the financial sense of the word, it isn't actually an asset at all.

In fact, it's worth at least 50% less than you paid for it the moment you left the jewelry store. Makes you wince a little, doesn't it?

 

 

Much better buy a Ruby or Sapphire

Edited March 8, 2017 by phuketrichard

[Naam]

3 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Look, I live in the same society as you, so if and when I do get married, I'd probably have to get the future wife a diamond ring....assuming she wants one.  That's just the way it is.

no that's not the way it is. in continental Europe there was never a diamond ring at engagement involved. wedding rings were bought, worn on the left hand, and changed to the right hand on the wedding day.

[Berkshire]

1 minute ago, Naam said:

no that's not the way it is. in continental Europe there was never a diamond ring at engagement involved. wedding rings were bought, worn on the left hand, and changed to the right hand on the wedding day.

Correction, perhaps it's an American thing. 

[Naam]

3 hours ago, rak sa_ngop said:

Sorry to be picky Naam but it is cubic zirconia or moissanite. 

[Naam]

Just now, Berkshire said:

Correction, perhaps it's an American thing. 

it is!

[topt]

6 hours ago, Naam said:

it is!

Also the UK unfortunately......

[bazza73]

The De Beers cartel has controlled the marketing and selling of diamonds for many years. The Russians threatened to upset the applecart, but some kind of deal was negotiated to control supply.Diamonds are nowhere near as rare or precious as people think - it's an artificial market.

Slightly off topic - rubies from Burma sold in Mae Sai and Tachilek are also subject to scams, mostly heat-treating.An acquaintance of mine got stung recently. Paid USD 300 for stones which were worth at best AUD 50.

[Naam]

11 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

Diamonds are nowhere near as rare or precious as people think - it's an artificial market.

the price of any commodity, respectively anything, is the result of offer and demand.

[bazza73]

1 minute ago, Naam said:

the price of any commodity, respectively anything, is the result of offer and demand.

Exactly. De Beers restricts what's on offer.

[Peterw42]

6 minutes ago, Naam said:

the price of any commodity, respectively anything, is the result of offer and demand.

A little research and you can uncover how the likes of debeers etc control the diamond market. They buy all the diamonds in the world, hord them, then restrict supply. Yes its supply and demand, but its a false supply.

[Naam]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

A little research and you can uncover how the likes of debeers etc control the diamond market. They buy all the diamonds in the world, hord them, then restrict supply. Yes its supply and demand, but its a false supply.

it's business conducted in order to optimise results... like any other business. nobody is forced to buy diamonds.

[KMartinHandyman]

Thx, good to know.


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[Istvan Balogh]

On 2017. 03. 07. at 6:09 PM, chickenslegs said:

Thanks for posting. Always happy to learn something new.

 

But...

That would have been my cue to buy her a new vacuum cleaner or something for the garden.

 

I'm joking of course - Mrs C would never say "I don't need anything".

I am a Hungarian, I have bought GIE certified diamonds online - they were beaten in the same way! It would have been good to get acquainted with it before.
How small the Earth has been - the chiliards have it all!

[lemonjelly]

Good old De Beers and their diamond advertising campaign from the 1950’s onwards..... they convinced everyone that engagement and wedding rings should have a diamond, when sapphire and ruby were actually more popular at the time.


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