Study visa

[startuper]

Hi,

again me.. :) I'm wondering... what kind of study is sufficient to acquire study visa? I would like to spend a year or two in Thailand with my family. My kids will attend a school (and ask for study visa), but problem is me and my spouse. It seems the work permit and guardian non imigration O visa will not work for me, tourist visa as well, so maybe if I enroll to some language school or something... what do you think, is it possible?

[ubonjoe]

If your children got a non-ed visa and then one year extensions stay for a attending school you and your wife could get extensions based upon being their parents (parents are not guardians). You both would need 500k baht in a Thai bank for 30 days to apply for the first extensions.

Unless you attend a university after getting a single entry non-ed visa the extension of it would only be up to 90 days at a time.

[elviajero]

You can get a Non 'ED' visa and an extension of stay for study as long as you sign up with a school and get them to back your visa/extension applications.

 

People have been abusing this method to live in the country for years so the authorities have been making harder for people to do what you're considering. Extensions are mostly limited to 60 days at a time and you will need to attend lessons for a minimum number of hours a week.

[muzmurray]

30 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You can get a Non 'ED' visa and an extension of stay for study as long as you sign up with a school and get them to back your visa/extension applications.

 

People have been abusing this method to live in the country for years so the authorities have been making harder for people to do what you're considering. Extensions are mostly limited to 60 days at a time and you will need to attend lessons for a minimum number of hours a week.

 

Your extensions of stay for one subject would be limited to a maximum of 18 months, then, unless you can find an advanced course you would have to leave or find something else to study - so not for "as long as you sign up".

 

Extensions for language schools are now normally 90 days, not 60.

[JackThompson]

Do heed Ubon Joe's advice, and see if you can get visas for you and your wife based on being the parent of a child enrolled in a Thai school.  He is the foremost expert on visas in this forum.  If someone has told you that you cannot do this, let us know what was said as to why - they may be misinformed.

 

An ED visa used to be a leisurely way to spend 3 years learning Thai interspersed with travel around the country, etc.  This is no longer the case (or I would do it).  Due to recent changes, you would need to purchase more "hours" per year from a school, and change languages every 18 months.  Any language but the native-language of your passport-country is permitted. 

 

According to someone I spoke with who stayed here on ED visas, the school will have an "arrangement" by which you pay a 'special fee', every 90 days, to avoid being hassled by Immigration for your extensions (i.e. treated like a lying criminal).  You hand over your passport and the money to a school-official, and everything is 'taken care of' for you.  Whether you attend classes or not makes no difference in this arrangement, so being "honest" and attending won't affect the outcome. 

 

It is almost funny to think some people are so naive as to believe the issue was whether people 'really went to class' or not - as if we were living in some parallel-universe of "Leave it to Beaver."  All the talk about 'abuse' really boils down to increasing the under-the-table incomes of certain people, by hassling foreigners who don't pay 'special', undocumented fees.  So-called 'abuse' or 'people working illegally' has not been targeted nor affected by any of the 'crackdown' visa changes in recent years.

 

In the short-run, you could do as many do (for years), and obtain Tourist Visas every 3 months from neighboring countries.  It's a pain, but one of the few honest options left for non-rich folks like me who are unmarried, no Thai children, not working for a Thai company, and under 50 years old.  But given we are not paying 'special' fees, it is uncertain how long this will last before greed removes this option. 

 

The only other option I have considered is a visa based on Volunteer work, which includes a work permit to do the volunteer-work.  But from what I have heard, there are still 'special payments' needed to lawyers and/or the organization sponsoring the visa, to make it happen.

[elviajero]

45 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Do heed Ubon Joe's advice, and see if you can get visas for you and your wife based on being the parent of a child enrolled in a Thai school. 

The OP was advised this option in his other thread and seems to have already discounted it as unaffordable. 

 

48 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

An ED visa used to be a leisurely way to spend 3 years learning Thai interspersed with travel around the country, etc

It used to be used/abused by many to live in the country that never went near a classroom. And that is the reason for the crackdown.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, muzmurray said:

Extensions for language schools are now normally 90 days, not 60.

Thank you. It was a typo I was too slow to correct.

[Get Real]

10 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The OP was advised this option in his other thread and seems to have already discounted it as unaffordable. 

 

It used to be used/abused by many to live in the country that never went near a classroom. And that is the reason for the crackdown.

If it seems to be unaffordable to follow the rules, maybe we should think about not using Thailand as an option, instead of trying to find solutions that are in the grey zone.

What do you think?

[elviajero]

10 minutes ago, Get Real said:

If it seems to be unaffordable to follow the rules, maybe we should think about not using Thailand as an option, instead of trying to find solutions that are in the grey zone.

What do you think?

I think Thailand is a great country to live in, and I understand why people will use the flaws in the system to stay there. IMO the visa system is transparent and easy to understand, and people, like me, benefitted from Immigration's tolerance for years.

 

Unfortunatley, with visitor and expat numbers increasing, the authorities are having to increase enforcement of the system.

 

During the years that I was a 'tourist' I accepted that I was effectively gaming the system. What continues to amaze me is the number of people that don't want to accept the reality that if there isn't a visa/reason to extend a stay for them it means Thailand doesn't want them.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

It used to be used/abused by many to live in the country that never went near a classroom. And that is the reason for the crackdown.

That's what they say, of course, but under the current system, that has not changed.  If enrollment has declined, it would be because some cannot afford the tea-money plus extra tuition.  The result is fewer Thai jobs from foreign-capital spent by foreigners, and a select-few get money in their pocket. This is the usual problem and result - not unique to Thailand - always harming those lowest in the economic hierarchy, but never the 'bad' guys.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, Get Real said:

If it seems to be unaffordable to follow the rules, maybe we should think about not using Thailand as an option, instead of trying to find solutions that are in the grey zone.

What do you think?

Exactly why a group have got together and paid the services of an Immigration Lawyer to get to the top of immigration and ask the question of why the need to be able to show money to get a marriage and retirement extension and the problems they are occurring jumping through hoops when others are living here quite openly and being continually issued back to back and extending Tourist visas. 

[muzmurray]

9 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

ask the question of why the need to be able to show money to get a marriage and retirement extension

 

The money is shown to prove that you have enough for living expenses for the coming year.

 

9 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

continually issued back to back and extending Tourist visas

 

Immigration does not issue visas, that is the MFA - better to ask them this question.

 

 

Wish that group had given me the money instead of some lawyer.  :-)

[startuper]

Guys, I found out that there is an age limit for non-ed visa. 12 years and above. And my children are 6 and 5 :-(. This option is out.

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, startuper said:

Guys, I found out that there is an age limit for non-ed visa. 12 years and above. And my children are 6 and 5 :-(. This option is out.

There is no such minimum age requirement. Where did you get that info?

I can assure much younger children are attending school and getting non-ed visa and extensions.

You 5 year old is old enough to attend kindergarten and there are formal schools that they can attend. Certainly the same for your 6 year old who would be in the 1st grade.

[startuper]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no such minimum age requirement. Where did you get that info?

I can assure much younger children are attending school and getting non-ed visa and extensions.

You 5 year old is old enough to attend kindergarten and there are formal schools that they can attend. Certainly the same for your 6 year old who would be in the 1st grade.

Thank you ubonjoe, you filled me with optimism :-). I just wrote to our school, maybe they also can give an advice. This information I found on two sources - on some forum (lonely planet or somethink like that) and on the website of some language school. But it still could be misinformation. Thanks a lot.

Maybe one question - do you think we both (me and my spouse) can acquire non-o visa as parents? Because how I see it, one parent is enough to stay with children. Or is there any experience that it is ok for both parents? Thanks.

[BritTim]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no such minimum age requirement. Where did you get that info?

I can assure much younger children are attending school and getting non-ed visa and extensions.

You 5 year old is old enough to attend kindergarten and there are formal schools that they can attend. Certainly the same for your 6 year old who would be in the 1st grade.

I think the rule applies only to those signing up for Thai language classes at a language school. There are sources like this:

http://www.ihbangkok.com/studying-in-bangkok/education-visa/

 

Of course, this is misleading.

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, startuper said:

Maybe one question - do you think we both (me and my spouse) can acquire non-o visa as parents? Because how I see it, one parent is enough to stay with children. Or is there any experience that it is ok for both parents? Thanks.

No problem to the get the non-o visas at an embassy or consulate.

For an extension of stay only one parent per child can get an extension. With 2 or more children both parents can get an extension but both must have 500k baht in the bank for 30 days to apply for the first extension. After the first extension the money must be in the bank for 90 days.

[JackThompson]

 

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

No problem to the get the non-o visas at an embassy or consulate.

For an extension of stay only one parent per child can get an extension. With 2 or more children both parents can get an extension but both must have 500k baht in the bank for 30 days to apply for the first extension. After the first extension the money must be in the bank for 90 days.

Thanks UJ - I was not sure about the money "seasoning" time for this type of visa. 

This is why I suggested staggering the applications in the other thread, when the OP mentioned financing both visas might be tight.  Here is how it can work:

Your wife could apply first with the money, then, after she obtains here visa, you transfer the money to your account, and you apply 4 months later. 

Then, 4 months before her first yearly-renewal, you transfer the money back to her account, do her application, then immediately upon approval, move the money back to your account, so it has the min 3 mo time "seasoning" before your application is submitted.

 

There is no requirement that the money stay in the account continuously, so I do not believe this would violate any laws/rules.  But if it would, or would not work for some other reason, feel free to correct me.

[JackThompson]

18 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Exactly why a group have got together and paid the services of an Immigration Lawyer to get to the top of immigration and ask the question of why the need to be able to show money to get a marriage and retirement extension and the problems they are occurring jumping through hoops when others are living here quite openly and being continually issued back to back and extending Tourist visas. 

Perhaps because those living here on yearly visas would gain nothing by making problems for foreigners and Thais who would be harmed by making it difficult for those under 50 who stay here most of the time using Tourist Visas?   I'd be happy to "show more money" - but they only ask for 20K Baht, as is, and they don't care if I have significantly more.

 

OP: What I have suggested is not "grey zone" - it follows the rules.   OTOH, thousands here on retirement visas use agents to "fake the money" for their visas - and have for decades.  Even that goes unpunished, because the "right people" get a cut of the fee.