Confused By Land Ownership, Can Anybody Help ?

[Schniggy]

Hi Guys, I'm new here so please go easy on me

I have been offered a property close to Udon Thani at a very attractive price, I have a couple of questions though and I'm hoping some of you guys in the know will be able to help me.

Here is a quote with what the seller says about the ownership of the land the house is built on.

There are many ways which westerners can have their names on property in Thailand, trust me I looked at them all. I decided that the simplest way for me to do this was to purchase un deeded land.

To purchase un deeded land it is as simple as agreeing a price and filling out a receipt. I have all the original receipts and photographic evidence of the sale and the money changing hands with the former owner.

There is very little land in Thailand which is un deeded and the reason for this is because it is ex military land no longer needed and sold to the public. If ever Thailand decides to register the land i.e. title deeds then their will be more options available to you to which I will gladly help you with. If this does happen the simplest thing to do will be to have a legal paper dawn up stating that YOU own the house and a Thai national owns the land and leases it to you. The lease will contain clauses, the owner of the land can not sell the land without giving you the option to re lease it (the lease will be set and fixed at a low rate, £25 for 30 years) so every 30 years you will have to pay £25. Although you will probably never have to go to these lengths my wife would be happy to help you about this as long as you are aware that you are to pay the legal expenses and any other costs. (I would think no more than £200 from a good Thai lawyer).

My questions are.......

Is this a legitamate way to own land ? Or, is it possible that the land and house can be taken by the govenment or some other entity at some point in the future ?

If it is a legitamate way to own land at the moment and the sh!t hits the fan in the future, would the leasing option be possible then or even now ?

It also comes with

the house registration booklet(government issue)

does this mean the house would be 100% owned by me ? And also the land if what the seller is saying is correct ?

Many Thanks I look forward to your responses

Schniggy

[kayo]

I know nothing about this, but I trust my instincts..

yer being scammed.

[lannarebirth]

Hi Guys, I'm new here so please go easy on me

I have been offered a property close to Udon Thani at a very attractive price, I have a couple of questions though and I'm hoping some of you guys in the know will be able to help me.

Here is a quote with what the seller says about the ownership of the land the house is built on.

There are many ways which westerners can have their names on property in Thailand, trust me I looked at them all. I decided that the simplest way for me to do this was to purchase un deeded land.

To purchase un deeded land it is as simple as agreeing a price and filling out a receipt. I have all the original receipts and photographic evidence of the sale and the money changing hands with the former owner.

There is very little land in Thailand which is un deeded and the reason for this is because it is ex military land no longer needed and sold to the public. If ever Thailand decides to register the land i.e. title deeds then their will be more options available to you to which I will gladly help you with. If this does happen the simplest thing to do will be to have a legal paper dawn up stating that YOU own the house and a Thai national owns the land and leases it to you. The lease will contain clauses, the owner of the land can not sell the land without giving you the option to re lease it (the lease will be set and fixed at a low rate, £25 for 30 years) so every 30 years you will have to pay £25. Although you will probably never have to go to these lengths my wife would be happy to help you about this as long as you are aware that you are to pay the legal expenses and any other costs. (I would think no more than £200 from a good Thai lawyer).

My questions are.......

Is this a legitamate way to own land ? Or, is it possible that the land and house can be taken by the govenment or some other entity at some point in the future ?

If it is a legitamate way to own land at the moment and the sh!t hits the fan in the future, would the leasing option be possible then or even now ?

It also comes with

the house registration booklet(government issue)

does this mean the house would be 100% owned by me ? And also the land if what the seller is saying is correct ?

Many Thanks I look forward to your responses

Schniggy

Almost everything that is in that message you received is untrue as pertains to foreigners. Some savvy Thais do trade in undeeded land. Foreigners most certainly cannot(deeded either for that matter). I'd pass if I were you.

[johnnyk]

If its undeeded how do you know who the owner is?

Would you buy a car from someone who had no ownership papers?

[Far Angst]

Hi Guys, I'm new here so please go easy on me

I have been offered a property close to Udon Thani at a very attractive price, ,,,,,,

Schniggy

Brooklyn Bridge was being sold - repeatedly - at very attractive price.

Fishy, fishy, fishy,,,

[oxymoron]

This is a new twist on the "NIGERIAN" shuffle

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Forget it.

[quiksilva]

Yup run away

[JimmyGreaves]

I know of alot of Thais who buy undeeded land that belongs to the 'Rot Fie' The railways. The have land that sits alongside the railway tracks some people have been living on small plots for 10-20 years or more and they trade it with a cost to the buyer and a simple contract. It's a risk, if the railways decide to build a road etc then they will claim it back but it can also be benificial if they do not claim it back you could have a cheap plot for 20 years.

Also there's the case of renting the front of your house out 'The pavement in English' to street traders they pay you a monthly rent to use the pavement. This infact belongs to the tessa bahn (Council in the UK). Strange but TIT. It's a gamble but like all gambling you have a chance of winning and usually a greater chance of losing. Pay your money take your chance.

Maybe Sunbelt can confirm these type of arrangements.

Edited December 19, 2006 by jflundy

[astral]

Very dodgy.

Without a deed how do you prove your own the land????

Don't do it.

[Gary A]

A farang can't own land that HAS a good deed. Why would you possibly think you could own land with no deed?

[JimmyGreaves]

I'm not talking about a farang owning, just telling what is going on with undeeeded land between Thais.Written signed contracts exchange hands. It is apparantly quite normal.

Edited December 20, 2006 by jflundy

[jvlozare]

good morning,

i strongly recommend don't buy, don't lease, don't touch it!

land in thailand is generally classified according to land use - residential,

agricultural, commercial, industrial, etc. and must be titled, as to ownership

or occupancy and end-use.

foreigners may own not more than 2 rais of land for residential purpose only.

strict regulations - re BOI privileges, investments, own business, etc. cover

such landholdings. not all foreign nationalities are allowed to own land.

most untitled land cover government land (public domain) in zones that are

going to be re-classified - example, mangroves or ponds with no access

(surrounded by titled private property) and isolated (no road access). in

this case, any person (generally owners of surrounding land) claiming

"ownership" of said untitled area will file his claim at the land office and pay

annual taxes on claimed area. public parks are prohibited zones and cannot

be titled and remain government property.

the land office re-classifies land use (colors in classification map) every 5 years

and the claimant, after paying yearly taxes, applies for a No-Sor-3 temporary

title. land under No-Sor-3 cannot be sold/re-sold in ten years until the land

office re-classifies said land and a title issued accordingly. this is to prevent

speculation and to have better zoning in local areas.

No-Sor-3 certificates are generally issued for agricultural land, so tenants and

farmers have opportunity to own such land in the future. foreigners are not

allowed to own agricultural land or to engage in farming activities.

when you say that the proposed land is "untitled," it may mean that it does not

even have a No-Sor-3 document yet, just the annual tax receipts. the seller

does not even "own" the land yet (hence he/she has no title), just a claim with

the land office. he/she is selling you his/her "occupancy rights," not ownership

of the land. a very risky proposition, even for a local.

even a No-Sor-3 document does not guarantee ownership, it just certifies that

the tenant/resident with such document has occupancy rights and has filed

"to own" claims/rights with the land office to issue him/her a proper land title

within 10 years, if no other persons claim "ownership/occupancy" on it or contest

his/her original claim.

it is not easy for a foreigner to use a thai-majority (51:49) registered company to

buy land as a nominee for the foreigner. the land office has rules/regulations that

a thai company with foreign shareholding of more than 35% cannot buy/own land,

unless a waiver is issued by the director-general of the land department. this waiver

can be asked from the provincial governor (not the local land office), if said land is

outside bangkok. the land office is very strict about this waiver and they check

back again, if land purchased (generally for factories) is used accordingly.

generally, a foreigner may own a house but not the land on which it stands.

a thai spouse generally loses his/her rights to own land when married to a foreigner

(not applicable if the marriage is not registered in thai consulate abroad or local

amphur).

americans, due to an old post-world war ii bilateral treaty, may own land in thailand.

but this is a very tedious process going through the various ministries - foreign affairs,

interior (land dept, tax dept, immigration dept, local amphur, etc.), justice (police and

fiscal clearances, etc.), and labour (work permit), etc.

you have to be very clear about objective to buy - for residence, investment, etc.

happy hunting.

have a nice day!

jimmy