The myth of melting ice and rising seas

[Airbagwill]

Like some kind of ghoul,. One is inexorably drawn back to this thread just to see deniers publicly exposing their ignorance.

 

The argument is over, the case proved beyond reasonable doubt....yet they still go on!

[Kieran00001]

7 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Where are you getting 4 degrees from? A computer model? Loaded up with inputs by a guy whose mortgage depends on the results saying the end is near.  The sea has barely risen and we have doubled our C02 output. The warming is paused. Why don't we get outraged about real environmental issues.

 

It is just an example, I said IF it rose by 4 degrees, not that it will.

Co2 takes time to make the sea level rise, as I just said, we are still seeing the effect of the past 100 years of emissions, did you not manage to follow that?

We get outraged by all sorts of issues, this one being real deserves outrage as it threatens our existence, what on earth made you think it was not real?  Oh yeah, some fossil fuel sponsored politicians told you so, right?  You blindly assume that a scientist studying the climate would require the climate to be changing to keep their funding but you don't question the agenda of people who are not even scientists who claim that it is not?  Hillarious.

[canuckamuck]

5 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

The warming is paused? Source of this factoid?

A brief perusal googleville will find you plenty of links saying just that. But we all know that your best friends at skeptical science are the only place on the internet you ever visit. So lets just go right to - you don't like more sources and I don't like your NOAA falsified statistics.

[Kieran00001]

20 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

A brief perusal googleville will find you plenty of links saying just that. But we all know that your best friends at skeptical science are the only place on the internet you ever visit. So lets just go right to - you don't like more sources and I don't like your NOAA falsified statistics.

 

No, global warming has not stopped, the hottest year on record was 2016, the second hottest on record is 2017, 2016 was a little hotter due to being an El Nino year.  The old tripe you are peddling is quite easily disproved by the fact that 2014 held the highest temperature record until 2015 when it was broken before being broken again in 2016.

 

[Dumbastheycome]

17 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Here in my neck of the woods, seismologists are predicting a 9.0+ earhquake in the next 50-100 years that will drop coastal land levels by 10-20 ft..   I have no reason not to believe them, yet still they are issuing building permits in the areas most likely to be affected if their predictions come to pass. It seems to me that governments are simply using human lives to extend their power over those same humans. They feed the scepticism because it is win/win for them.

 

 

Seems to me the government is going to do the same for all the people at risk of global sea level rise as they did for all of these folks.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_disasters_by_death_toll

The  life  expectancy  of buildings compliant  to construction permits  are  never   in  excess  of   50  years .

For  large   city  highrise  areas  that is  in  excess of profitability pending   ghetto status.

Despite  possibility  rather  than  probability  factors that  leaves governments  immune in  the  face  of   public   demand  and use  of  the  economic   measurement  of an economy  primarily  based   on   housing construction.

The  economic  wheel   is expected  to   run  over  all obstacles!  lol  

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

A brief perusal googleville will find you plenty of links saying just that. But we all know that your best friends at skeptical science are the only place on the internet you ever visit. So lets just go right to - you don't like more sources and I don't like your NOAA falsified statistics.

Patrick Moynihan had been credited for saying something like this: "You're entitled to your own opinions but not to your own facts." But there is no use in having a discussion with a conspiracy theorist.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Now I understand why you use that "confused" emoticon so much. Anyway I'm talking about the Cacadia subduction fault which, according to seismologists is due to deliver a 9.0 earthquake anytime from now to 200 years from now. There's no particular reason that anyone not living in that area should worry about it, I only used it as an illustration. Personally I don't worry about these kinds of things.

 

 

Actually it sounds like, you worry about 'these things' a great deal. Much more than average person living within same conditions. 

[USPatriot]

Global cooling global warming nope climate change is the biggest money grab in history.

 

Al gore and the Hollywood elite have massive yachts, private jets, big cars, mansions  all over the world   yet we are supposed to conserve.

[Kieran00001]

15 minutes ago, USPatriot said:

Global cooling global warming nope climate change is the biggest money grab in history.

 

Al gore and the Hollywood elite have massive yachts, private jets, big cars, mansions  all over the world   yet we are supposed to conserve.

 

Yeah, because if the spokespeople aren't all doing their bit then the scientists must all be lying, makes perfect sense.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Slow it down?  When you figure out how you could have slowed down any of the other historic rises in sea level let me know.

As you already pointed out, climate and sea levels have been reasonably stable (excluding the last few decades) for 8000 years.  All we have to do is slow down the dramatic increases in temperatures and sea levels that coincide with dramatic increases in CO2 brought about by the industrial age. 

 

The general plan about slowing it down is easy:  Reduce CO2 emissions caused by humans and try to reduce the CO2 concentrations already caused by us.  How to do this is hotly debated, with climate change deniers putting up as much distraction as possible by insisting proven facts don't matter.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

A brief perusal googleville will find you plenty of links saying just that. But we all know that your best friends at skeptical science are the only place on the internet you ever visit. So lets just go right to - you don't like more sources and I don't like your NOAA falsified statistics.

In other words:  "I'm not going to defend my claims, you defend them!"

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Patrick Moynihan had been credited for saying something like this: "You're entitled to your own opinions but not to your own facts." But there is no use in having a discussion with a conspiracy theorist.

Or someone who presents (invents) facts as he goes and challenges others to defend them.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, USPatriot said:

Global cooling global warming nope climate change is the biggest money grab in history.

 

Al gore and the Hollywood elite have massive yachts, private jets, big cars, mansions  all over the world   yet we are supposed to conserve.

Are you aware that the few, questionable scientists who are challenging global warming are paid by people who benefit from the status quo, i.e., denial?

[lannarebirth]

3 hours ago, oilinki said:

Actually it sounds like, you worry about 'these things' a great deal. Much more than average person living within same conditions. 

I should say I don't worry about it for my personal safety and other interests which reside in projected medium and low impact zones. I am definitely worried for those who will one day be impacted by it.

[F4UCorsair]

10 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Like some kind of ghoul,. One is inexorably drawn back to this thread just to see deniers publicly exposing their ignorance.

 

The argument is over, the case proved beyond reasonable doubt....yet they still go on!

 

The case that humans are not causing "climate change".   There will be a few who don't agree, but thinking people see it for what it is, the likes of Al Gore making billions from perpetuating his "inconvenient truth", which is in effect, a convenient lie, one that benefits him.

[F4UCorsair]

7 hours ago, USPatriot said:

Global cooling global warming nope climate change is the biggest money grab in history.

 

Al gore and the Hollywood elite have massive yachts, private jets, big cars, mansions  all over the world   yet we are supposed to conserve.

 

Yep, and all the delegates to Copenhagen and Paris arrived in their private jets!!  Traveling by normal airlines would have done a lot to reduce emissions.   Nothing was decided at Copenhagen, except that they meet in Paris in a few years to drink more pi$$, eat more food, and grow fatter on the taxpayers of their respective countries.

 

7 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Yeah, because if the spokespeople aren't all doing their bit then the scientists must all be lying, makes perfect sense.

 

No, it means they are not committed to the cause, because they know the cause is based on money making and no more.  There is such a thing called 'credibility', and when that is lost, all is lost.

Edited November 25, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[Credo]

10 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

Yep, and all the delegates to Copenhagen and Paris arrived in their private jets!!  Traveling by normal airlines would have done a lot to reduce emissions.   Nothing was decided at Copenhagen, except that they meet in Paris in a few years to drink more pi$$, eat more food, and grow fatter on the taxpayers of their respective countries.

 

 

No, it means they are not committed to the cause, because they know the cause is based on money making and no more.  There is such a thing called 'credibility', and when that is lost, all is lost.

The typical deflection.   Can't really stay on topic, so blame the messengers.   Well, if they go away CC won't.   It is real.   I am not going to give you a bunch of statistics, but I will tell you that growing up in a farming area when I was young, the planting season has moved back by two weeks.   Yes, in my lifetime, the last hard frost is now two weeks earlier than when I was in my youth.   Likewise the first hard frost of fall is two weeks later.   The growing season has expanded so that crops that could never be safely grown are a staple of the farming environment.   

 

Check the records of the deserts in the SW.   On any given day, they are higher than the average temp, and the average temp is going up year-on-year, by a little.   Oh, and rainfall is way down.   

 

You can explain it away, but from where I sit, it does affect my life on a daily basis.   

[craigt3365]

8 hours ago, USPatriot said:

Global cooling global warming nope climate change is the biggest money grab in history.

 

Al gore and the Hollywood elite have massive yachts, private jets, big cars, mansions  all over the world   yet we are supposed to conserve.

It may be the biggest money grab in history. But CC is real. Impossible to deny. Though some try.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

Yep, and all the delegates to Copenhagen and Paris arrived in their private jets!!  Traveling by normal airlines would have done a lot to reduce emissions.   Nothing was decided at Copenhagen, except that they meet in Paris in a few years to drink more pi$$, eat more food, and grow fatter on the taxpayers of their respective countries.

FYI. Internet users now create as much of an environmental problem as those flying in planes.

[canuckamuck]

The real problem is the complexity of the argument. Many, probably most people, think that the fact that temperatures have risen is enough evidence to say that man made global warming is occurring and that it is going to threaten humanity. They use all sorts of things as their backup evidence. The receding glaciers, any strong storm, any iceberg, any particular hot day. But there is a logical fallacy occurring. Rising temperatures are not proof of any connection to increased CO2 emissions. They are not proof of an upcoming apocalypse. They are simple rising temperatures which are entirely within the normal variations of the temperature records.

Now, I have no doubt, that CO2 can influence the greenhouse effect. But so far we cannot accurately breakdown all of the complex feedback relationships involved in climate cycles, and so far we have not seen deviations of any concern. In fact so far what we have is longer growing seasons in the north and less hurricanes overall. Granted there have been a few really big ones. 

As humanity has always contended with rising or falling sea levels, receding glaciers, hot days, and hurricanes. I think it is ridiculous to suppose that if we managed to cut our CO2 contributions, that everything will stabilize or improve. They will not. Even if all humans died tomorrow. Throwing trillions at a phenomenon which is primarily natural in nature is truly tilting at windmills, and a fantastic cash grab for a connected few.

The responsible thing to do is to continue to observe and learn, and in the mean time, continue to advance technology to have less impact on the environment and resources.  The answer is to reward the innovators, not taxation and global regulation.

It is the breathless scaremongering of a coming apocalypse which I find the most offensive. And who is it that profits from fear?Governments, media, anarchists, and opportunists. We really need to stop filling these parasites pockets and rewarding their their ridiculous extortions.

[USPatriot]

11 hours ago, heybruce said:

Are you aware that the few, questionable scientists who are challenging global warming are paid by people who benefit from the status quo, i.e., denial?

Same same. If scientist don't come up with the right answer benefiting the few then sorry no more funding 

[USPatriot]

4 hours ago, Credo said:

The typical deflection.   Can't really stay on topic, so blame the messengers.   Well, if they go away CC won't.   It is real.   I am not going to give you a bunch of statistics, but I will tell you that growing up in a farming area when I was young, the planting season has moved back by two weeks.   Yes, in my lifetime, the last hard frost is now two weeks earlier than when I was in my youth.   Likewise the first hard frost of fall is two weeks later.   The growing season has expanded so that crops that could never be safely grown are a staple of the farming environment.   

 

Check the records of the deserts in the SW.   On any given day, they are higher than the average temp, and the average temp is going up year-on-year, by a little.   Oh, and rainfall is way down.   

 

You can explain it away, but from where I sit, it does affect my life on a daily basis.   

Really   I live in Arizona and the monsoon was sooner and the Temps use to get to 100 in the first week of april now it is may.

[Airbagwill]

5 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

The case that humans are not causing "climate change".   There will be a few who don't agree, but thinking people see it for what it is, the likes of Al Gore making billions from perpetuating his "inconvenient truth", which is in effect, a convenient lie, one that benefits him.

QED, Thanks for the repost, though

[Kieran00001]

5 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

No, it means they are not committed to the cause, because they know the cause is based on money making and no more.  There is such a thing called 'credibility', and when that is lost, all is lost.

 

Your argument would have to have some credibility in order for all belief in human causes of climate change to be lost, some spokespeople being hypocritical is not a credible argument against it, for a start they are not really campaigning against people changing their ways but actually governments, so your argument falls at the first hurdle.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, heybruce said:

Are you being deliberately dense?  The natural environment creates and absorbs CO2.  The natural environment can not absorb the increased CO2 put out by humans. 

 

Also, as has been repeatedly pointed out, gradual changes in the environment that allow ecosystems and civilizations to adjust are not the concern.  It is rapid changes in the environment that causes mass extinctions and civilizations to collapse.  The changes projected by climate scientists are rapid.

????????????????

The greatest mass extinction was caused by an asteroid strike, and the only "civilization" collapse not caused by warfare or internal corruption that I know of was one of the South American ones which may or may not have been caused by climate change, but I'm not going to go do a search for exactly which one. If any really cares google is your friend.

Meanwhile in the present, this debate has been going on since the 70s at least, which is hardly rapid. If humans actually gave a monkey's they could have done something about it decades ago, but of course the vast majority of humanity doesn't care as much as an iota, never mind our lords and masters.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

FYI. Internet users now create as much of an environmental problem as those flying in planes.

Then every pro human caused CC/ GW poster should stop using the internet. 555555

[canuckamuck]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Then every pro human caused CC/ GW poster should stop using the internet. 555555

You have to consider with that statistic that the internet saves way more resources than it uses by the fact international business can be conducted without travel and there are numerous other examples.

But I am totally in favor of your suggestion.

Edited November 26, 2017 by canuckamuck

[uncleeagle]

19 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

How on earth people manage to get their heads to deeply buried in the sand is beyond me.  None of the other historic changes were in part caused by us, we are now also part of the cause of the change, so we can actually slow down on these ways that we are adding to the changes and thus we can slow down the change.  Is that simple enough for you?

 

I have a feeling that no it wont be simple enough. We arent only dealing with Ostriches here, we are dealing with bird brains.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

????????????????

The greatest mass extinction was caused by an asteroid strike, and the only "civilization" collapse not caused by warfare or internal corruption that I know of was one of the South American ones which may or may not have been caused by climate change, but I'm not going to go do a search for exactly which one. If any really cares google is your friend.

Meanwhile in the present, this debate has been going on since the 70s at least, which is hardly rapid. If humans actually gave a monkey's they could have done something about it decades ago, but of course the vast majority of humanity doesn't care as much as an iota, never mind our lords and masters.

Do a little research before you post.  A mass extinction was caused by an asteroid strike, not the greatest mass extinction.

 

The poster I was replying to had pointed out that the climate had been stable for eight thousand years.  I pointed out that it was during this period of climate stability that human civilization had risen.  Civilization has not been tested by dramatic global climate change, though local climate change brought about by deforestation and poor farming practices are possible causes of the collapse of the Mayan and Khmer civilizations (possibly others).  We are currently bringing about climate change that will test and possibly end civilization.

 

The Pentagon considers climate change a threat and gives some of the reasons why.  https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/612710/

[F4UCorsair]

9 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

It may be the biggest money grab in history. But CC is real. Impossible to deny. Though some try.

 

There's a guy in Australia named (Professor)Tim Flannery.   He's a mammologist, an expert in the life cycles of mammals.   He was appointed by a former left government to frighten the f*** out of us all, and many were so convinced that they sold up their waterfront homes along the Hawkesbury River, one of the most beautiful places in the world.  Many of these places had land just a meter or so above the river level.

 

Then.....he snapped up a bargain, paid about a third of its worth a year before!!!  In his wife's name, of course.

 

He's known by most as the Prince of Booga Booga because of his ridiculous predictions, all of which have been disproved or have just plain crap.

 

I saw him interviewed back when these predictions were made, and when asked if he could possibly be wrong, he put his hand on his heart, his eyes watered, and he said, "I hope I am."    Well he couldn't have been more spectacularly wrong than he was, even if he'd tried.

 

When a government employs such a person as a 'climate change expert', (remember he's a mammologist) you know he's sold out and is running an agenda for the employer, the Australian government.  Incidentally he only had to put in 2 days a week for $180K a year, and having a non expert pushing the CC agenda lacks credibility.

 

Then the left started using the term "carbon pollution", the visible pollution seen in big cities and industrial areas, confusing the average punter, which isn't too difficult, into thinking that 'carbon pollution' and CO2 are one and the same thing.   The deception perpetrated by governments, to support their ridiculous cases, is appalling, and leads to a total lack of credibility.

 

He panicked three state governments into building desalination plants, all required yesterday because of his dire predictions, and those states paid hundreds of millions of $$ more than they would have if not required immediately.  Victoria now pays a million $$ a day to keep the desal company on the payroll, and that's even if the state takes no water from the plant!!  I think it's a 20 year contract, so $365 million a year for 20 years, over 7 billion $$.

 

This is worth reading...http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/it-pays-to-check-out-flannerys-predictions-about-climate-change-says-andrew-bolt/news-story/9e3f81590f07b4c04309981fdb6b251d?sv=efe28c39f730fc00b2f981e2578aedfa

 

He's a bit more of Prof Tim.   He convinced the federal government to invest in a company in which he was a major shareholder (shares for his time rather than bought), and from memory, the govt sunk $90 MILLION into the project.   It was in the South Australian desert, where there is little rain, and the rains that he forecast were never going to fall again did fall, in record volumes, and washed the entire project out.   All invested money was lost.  It's a dud.

 

http://catallaxyfiles.com/2014/08/08/hot-rocks-a-dud-ask-tim-flannery/

 

On the subject of a greater incidence, or intensity, of extreme weather events, there hasn't been any increase in Australia, and in the US, the recent typhon season didn't set any records for intensity or number, and the last severe typhoon prior to 2017, was Katrina in 2005!!   That's 12 years ago.

 

I maintain that CC will prove to be the greatest lie of our time, if not all time.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by F4UCorsair