France's Le Pen says the EU 'will die', globalists to be defeated

[TommyUK1960]

Reading through TV comments, It seems to me many people on here are out of touch what is going on in Europe.

Brexit is the best thing that has happened. It's going to be a bumpy road for a bit but Britain will thrive out of the shekels of the dictatorship EU.  

Idiots saying the UK is becoming isolationist are totally out of touch. It's a big world and Britain has many markets to trade with also making our  own trade deals. something the EU is not very good at.

Marine Le Pen will not win in France because the EU will do all the dirty tricks in the book to make sure she loses. (Marine Le Pen win means the distruction of the EU)

But that just might be the worst thing for France because civil unrest will increase.

 

I voted OUT. No regrets Best for my Kids and Grand kids.

[the guest]

She's right, and when it does then it will mean the end of the fat cats getting rich at the expense of everybody else. Why goods are produced outside the country is only for 1 reason, exploitation and bigger profits. We don't need the east to produce our good, we can reinvent ourselves, and rebuild our own factories, for our own people. 

[dick dasterdly]

45 minutes ago, the guest said:

She's right, and when it does then it will mean the end of the fat cats getting rich at the expense of everybody else. Why goods are produced outside the country is only for 1 reason, exploitation and bigger profits. We don't need the east to produce our good, we can reinvent ourselves, and rebuild our own factories, for our own people. 

Her 'public persona' may be right about some things, but I'd be shocked if exploitation and bigger profits for the elite are about to change.

 

Big business buy off politicians and policy makers easily - which is why politicians are on a par with those who sell cars when it comes to 'trust' amongst the electorate.

[Xaos]

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[englishinsiam]

The European rightists thought that a Trump victory would propel them to the same. The sad part is that American voters actually thought Trump was going to change their life. Instead they are beginning to find out that he has sold them a bunch of snake oil and nothing will really change. 
Voters in the EU will not be so fooled as we are already seeing. the UK is a special case because they see a direct threat to their culture from unfettered Immigration. I doubt the EU will break apart but individual countries may seek further loosening of regulations.
 

Trump isn't allowed to change anything because the lefties block and challenge him every step.

The judges in the courts are paid off by Soros and the Democrats.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[joecoolfrog]

5 hours ago, englishinsiam said:

 

Trump isn't allowed to change anything because the lefties block and challenge him every step.

The judges in the courts are paid off by Soros and the Democrats.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

 

My bad , I thought this thread was for sensible opinion.

[joecoolfrog]

13 hours ago, TommyUK1960 said:

Reading through TV comments, It seems to me many people on here are out of touch what is going on in Europe.

Brexit is the best thing that has happened. It's going to be a bumpy road for a bit but Britain will thrive out of the shekels of the dictatorship EU.  

Idiots saying the UK is becoming isolationist are totally out of touch. It's a big world and Britain has many markets to trade with also making our  own trade deals. something the EU is not very good at.

Marine Le Pen will not win in France because the EU will do all the dirty tricks in the book to make sure she loses. (Marine Le Pen win means the distruction of the EU)

But that just might be the worst thing for France because civil unrest will increase.

 

I voted OUT. No regrets Best for my Kids and Grand kids.

Le Pen will not win because most French voters , despite their problems , are not commited racists.

 

[stander]

EU worried migrants will shop around for best return deal

The amount of financial incentive offered by EU countries varies considerably.

Financial incentive. Reward for good behavior. Gift. Bribe. Call it what you like, but payments to migrants to encourage them to return to their countries of origin are now key to Europe’s migration policy. They are also creating a problem.

http://www.politico.eu/article/eu-worried-migrants-will-shop-around-for-best-voluntary-return-deal-payment/

[simple1]

1 hour ago, stander said:

EU worried migrants will shop around for best return deal

The amount of financial incentive offered by EU countries varies considerably.

Financial incentive. Reward for good behavior. Gift. Bribe. Call it what you like, but payments to migrants to encourage them to return to their countries of origin are now key to Europe’s migration policy. They are also creating a problem.

http://www.politico.eu/article/eu-worried-migrants-will-shop-around-for-best-voluntary-return-deal-payment/

Considering it costs government more to detain rejected asylum seekers for eventually deportation, you would think they would take a more pragmatic policy position. But no, in order to appeal to people such as you, anti asylum seeker governments populist policy dictates minimal or no funds for returnees, thereby creating the potential scenarios you talk to and further fuelling bigotry.

[Morch]

49 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Considering it costs government more to detain rejected asylum seekers for eventually deportation, you would think they would take a more pragmatic policy position. But no, in order to appeal to people such as you, anti asylum seeker governments populist policy dictates minimal or no funds for returnees, thereby creating the potential scenarios you talk to and further fuelling bigotry.

 

Not that I have a magic solution, but it does seem that what you offer is either pay up or let them stay. Not realistic to expect that people will embrace either or even consider the choice between them as legitimate.

 

In the context of the topic, and my previous post - hanging on to such dilemmas as if they are fait accompli is the sort of thing which makes support for populist/right wing movements all the more likely.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Morch

[englishinsiam]

My bad , I thought this thread was for sensible opinion.

This is the truth they have even madeTwitter bots to spam his feeds with their hate.

You can believe what you want in the west as long as you agree with the fascist left.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[simple1]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Not that I have a magic solution, but it does seem that what you offer is either pay up or let them stay. Not realistic to expect that people will embrace either or even consider the choice between them as legitimate.

 

 

No. Government should lead, not dance too populist sentiment which IMO only exacerbates problems. On the opposite side of the coin I understand a number of EU countries have not completed government to government negotiations to enable rejected asylum seekers to be returned to their home countries.

[Thorgal]

The System in France wants EU-exit, nationalist populist Le Pen or Goldman-Sachs boy Macron.

Not sure what the French people wants.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

No. Government should lead, not dance too populist sentiment which IMO only exacerbates problems. On the opposite side of the coin I understand a number of EU countries have not completed government to government negotiations to enable rejected asylum seekers to be returned to their home countries.

 

I think that there's enough room for disagreement without wholesale labeling of dissenting views as "populist". Considering that these sentiments are not quite fringe, it would be better to address them (not necessarily embrace, though), and their roots. Marginalization is not a great solution.

 

Governments being tied by agreements, bureaucracies and incompetence is a given. Most politicians in democratic systems having a limited political attention span is another sad fact.

 

[Thorgal]

No. Government should lead, not dance too populist sentiment which IMO only exacerbates problems. On the opposite side of the coin I understand a number of EU countries have not completed government to government negotiations to enable rejected asylum seekers to be returned to their home countries.

Actually, for example, German government refused plenty Kosovo refugee approvals and sent them back to Kosovo, while Syrians and Lybians are free to come in.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[simple1]

48 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I think that there's enough room for disagreement without wholesale labeling of dissenting views as "populist". Considering that these sentiments are not quite fringe, it would be better to address them (not necessarily embrace, though), and their roots. Marginalization is not a great solution.

 

Governments being tied by agreements, bureaucracies and incompetence is a given. Most politicians in democratic systems having a limited political attention span is another sad fact.

 

By 'populist' I was referring to some of the countries mentioned in the linked article such as Hungary & Czech Republic, whose government are very anti 'refugee', which apparently dictates their policy of not offering financial incentives for people to depart which IMO is very shortsighted.

Edited March 29, 2017 by simple1

[simple1]

39 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Actually, for example, German government refused plenty Kosovo refugee approvals and sent them back to Kosovo, while Syrians and Lybians are free to come in.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

I know, but a number of countries have yet to conclude agreements with Germany

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, simple1 said:

By 'populist' I was referring to some of the countries mentioned in the linked article such as Hungary & Czech Republic, whose government are very anti 'refugee', which apparently dictates their policy of not offering financial incentives for people to depart which IMO is very shortsighted.

 

And it still doesn't explain how or why paying them off or letting them stay became the only game in town. Neither does it address the legitimacy or reasonableness of such a position.

 

And if bringing up "shortsighted" - lack of proper border controls, inconsistent immigration policies, and not investing enough efforts dealing with issues in non-EU countries of origin/transit may apply as well.

[simple1]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And it still doesn't explain how or why paying them off or letting them stay became the only game in town. Neither does it address the legitimacy or reasonableness of such a position.

 

And if bringing up "shortsighted" - lack of proper border controls, inconsistent immigration policies, and not investing enough efforts dealing with issues in non-EU countries of origin/transit may apply as well.

I did not say 'let them stay' so you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

Agree with your second paragraph, too lazy to previously list or indeed add to your list, as assume they are well known issues to you and others who have a real interest in these matters.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

I did not say 'let them stay' so you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

Agree with your second paragraph, too lazy to previously list or indeed add to your list, as assume they are well known issues to you and others who have a real interest in these matters.

 

The reference was meant as general. Most of the alternatives aired by governments seem to be versions of these two options. Letting them stay or pay up (either through incentives to leave, or by financing prolonged stay until legalities are met). There isn't all that much discussion (and even less action) on dealing with these issues from a preventive angle. The latter relates to the "list".

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

The reference was meant as general. Most of the alternatives aired by governments seem to be versions of these two options. Letting them stay or pay up (either through incentives to leave, or by financing prolonged stay until legalities are met). There isn't all that much discussion (and even less action) on dealing with these issues from a preventive angle. The latter relates to the "list".

Not so sure your POV there is little discussion across EU member countries is correct, though the rise of nationalist parties would create extra challenges to collaborate on policy development and enactment.

 

 I expect you are familiar with the likes of Frontex, for others who are unfamiliar with the organisation, take a look at the URL below.

 

http://frontex.europa.eu/