Trump unleashes military strikes against Assad airbase in Syria

[JustNo]

Why did the US invade Iraq according to the government? WMDs
Why did the US invade Iraq in reality? Oil aka greed 

Why did the US invade Libya according to the government? Because Gadhafi was evil and needed to be stopped (even though his people loved him) 
Why did the US invade Libya in reality? Because Libya wanted to use a gold standard currency and not a petrol dollar aka greed 

Why does the US want to invade and control Syria according to the government? Because Assad kills his own people with chemical weapons (even though the first time this happened it was proven to be rebels)
Why does the US want to invade and control Syria in reality? To maintain the gas pipeline runs where they want it rather than swoop up through Russia and China 

I don't understand how people miss this... oh yes I do, brainwashing and propaganda, oops I forgot 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/13/2017 at 9:58 PM, craigt3365 said:

You are correct.  But why are they fighting a civil war?  Because he killed his own people!  LOL  Which started a civil war because people didn't want to be slaughtered! 

 

Yes, there are problems in Syria.  Like every other country.  But many handled them in a civilized manner.  They don't use chemical weapons on their own people to keep them in line.  Sorry to use the term, but that is a red line the civilized world won't tolerate.  Luckily.

 

Assad's shelf life is getting shorter and shorter.  Without Russian and Iranian help, he would have already been gone.  Blood is on the hands of Russian and Iran also.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/12/opinions/how-to-force-russias-hand-on-syria-hall/index.html

 

Luckily, many countries are trying to hold Russia to task for supporting this mess.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39585071

 

I would have more support for your position if it wasn't obvious that removing Assad would only cause even more problems. If the "rebels" that you appear to support won, it would mean a bloodbath of the Alawites. They are not heroes of democracy by any means.

The US stuffed up Iraq and Libya with ill considered policies; there is no reason to make it 3 out of 3.

BTW, still no "proof" that Assad ordered the gas attack and no logical motive for doing so.

[JustNo]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

BTW, still no "proof" that Assad ordered the gas attack and no logical motive for doing so.

 

Exactly, and there is proof that the first gas attack around a year ago was form the rebels. The rebels that have come into being indirectly from US intervention in the first place. Also what is a fact is that the US has armed and funded rebels in places such as Iraq in the past, this is not opinion based or conspiracy theory as it is factual 

Edited April 20, 2017 by JustNo

[craigt3365]

20 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I would have more support for your position if it wasn't obvious that removing Assad would only cause even more problems. If the "rebels" that you appear to support won, it would mean a bloodbath of the Alawites. They are not heroes of democracy by any means.

The US stuffed up Iraq and Libya with ill considered policies; there is no reason to make it 3 out of 3.

BTW, still no "proof" that Assad ordered the gas attack and no logical motive for doing so.

How is that obvious?  Nobody has a crystal ball. And nobody knows how things would turn out if Assad was removed.  One thing for sure,  it couldn't get much worse. Impossible. 

 

You keep going back to Iraq. And seem to ignore the fact many nations are trying to sort out Syria.  

 

At least we now know it was a gas attack, something many here initially denied. And it's known it wasn't released by bombing a rebel weapons factory.  LOL

 

Hmmmm....you're asking for logic from a man who's responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of his own people.  Seriously?  LOL Wow.

[craigt3365]

I'm in Beirut now, headed to the Bekka Valley. 15 miles or so from Syria.  Lebanon is a mess due to this war. Spent a few hours chatting about this with the hotel manager yesterday. Syrian refugees are all over the streets begging for money,  breaks your heart. 

 

You should read this. Focus on the culprits. Russia and Assad. 

 

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2017/Apr-21/402690-syrias-war-criminals-finally-feeling-the-heat.ashx

[boomerangutang]

26 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

How is that obvious?  Nobody has a crystal ball. And nobody knows how things would turn out if Assad was removed.  One thing for sure,  it couldn't get much worse. Impossible. 

You keep going back to Iraq. And seem to ignore the fact many nations are trying to sort out Syria.  

At least we now know it was a gas attack, something many here initially denied. And it's known it wasn't released by bombing a rebel weapons factory.  LOL

Hmmmm....you're asking for logic from a man who's responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of his own people.  Seriously?  LOL Wow.

"And nobody knows how things would turn out if Assad was removed.  One thing for sure,  it couldn't get much worse. Impossible."

 

Every time westerners thought things could not get worse in the M.East, .....they got worse.

 

Several of the many factors:  

>>>  Male-dominated cultures which are so insecure, they continually intimidate/suppress females.

>>>  A mean-spirited belief system.  All the warring factions are Muslims.

>>>  Practically no natural resources, except sand, sun and black oil.

 

No matter who's in charge in that part of the world, misery will prevail.

[boomerangutang]

10 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

I'm in Beirut now, headed to the Bekka Valley. 15 miles or so from Syria.  Lebanon is a mess due to this war. Spent a few hours chatting about this with the hotel manager yesterday. Syrian refugees are all over the streets begging for money,  breaks your heart. 

 

You should read this. Focus on the culprits. Russia and Assad. 

 

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2017/Apr-21/402690-syrias-war-criminals-finally-feeling-the-heat.ashx

Am curious.  What are doing there?  Tourist?  business?  Journalism?  Writing a book?  James Bond?  Family ties?   Hired by Ross Perot to spring western hostages?

[JustNo]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

I'm in Beirut now, headed to the Bekka Valley. 15 miles or so from Syria.  Lebanon is a mess due to this war. Spent a few hours chatting about this with the hotel manager yesterday. Syrian refugees are all over the streets begging for money,  breaks your heart. 

 

You should read this. Focus on the culprits. Russia and Assad. 

 

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2017/Apr-21/402690-syrias-war-criminals-finally-feeling-the-heat.ashx

I have a very close friend who lives in Aley and works in Beirut. Yeah there is a refugee problem but it is not overwhelming at the moment. The thing is that the last time the chemical weapons were used last year when the Syrian situation kicked off, it was blamed on Assad, of course, and later it has come to light that it was in fact the rebels which are backed by the US. This time Assad has been blamed once again and it will most likely only be a matter of time before the real culprits are found out. I am not saying Assad is clean, he isn't. But the US are the masters of pulling off false flags, running into countries in the Middle East, pretty much totally screwing them up physically and socially, and then using a scapegoat for the entire deal

[mettech]

The great and pwerfull US of A are always the one to dictate other  country to do what it is good for the USA and if they do not agree well.... they will some how disturb the peace in order to promote confusion and play both side of the problem.

[metisdead]

An off topic post about The Falklands has been removed. 

[craigt3365]

9 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Am curious.  What are doing there?  Tourist?  business?  Journalism?  Writing a book?  James Bond?  Family ties?   Hired by Ross Perot to spring western hostages?

Tourist. Baalbeck is perhaps the best preserved Roman ruins in the Middle East. Impressive for sure. 

[craigt3365]

7 hours ago, JustNo said:

I have a very close friend who lives in Aley and works in Beirut. Yeah there is a refugee problem but it is not overwhelming at the moment. The thing is that the last time the chemical weapons were used last year when the Syrian situation kicked off, it was blamed on Assad, of course, and later it has come to light that it was in fact the rebels which are backed by the US. This time Assad has been blamed once again and it will most likely only be a matter of time before the real culprits are found out. I am not saying Assad is clean, he isn't. But the US are the masters of pulling off false flags, running into countries in the Middle East, pretty much totally screwing them up physically and socially, and then using a scapegoat for the entire deal

I'd say 2 million refugees is overwhelming.  We passed mile after mile of camps. Thousands and thousands of makeshift tents. Baalbeck is almost a ghost town now.  85% of shop houses are shut. Almost no tourism. 

 

Your facts are wrong. Chemicals have been used by Assad before.  That's well documented. 

 

On the tour was a journalist covering Syria. Guess who he Blames?  It ain't the US. 

 

Not sure where you are getting your info from, but might be good to find better sources.

[craigt3365]

A pic of one of the many refugee camps.

[Andaman Al]

40 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Your facts are wrong. Chemicals have been used by Assad before.  That's well documented. 

 

On the tour was a journalist covering Syria. Guess who he Blames?  It ain't the US. 

 

Not sure where you are getting your info from, but might be good to find better sources.

Well this is a very good starting point at last with compelling physical evidence.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mit-expert-claims-latest-chemical-100819428.html

[onthesoi]

47 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

I'd say 2 million refugees is overwhelming.  We passed mile after mile of camps. Thousands and thousands of makeshift tents. Baalbeck is almost a ghost town now.  85% of shop houses are shut. Almost no tourism. 

 

Your facts are wrong. Chemicals have been used by Assad before.  That's well documented. 

 

On the tour was a journalist covering Syria. Guess who he Blames?  It ain't the US. 

 

Not sure where you are getting your info from, but might be good to find better sources.

 

Just to be clear ...your source is a guy you met on your holiday?

Edited April 21, 2017 by onthesoi

[craigt3365]

Just now, Andaman Al said:

Well this is a very good starting point at last with compelling physical evidence.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mit-expert-claims-latest-chemical-100819428.html

Good gosh. You got punked. That pic of the crater is fake. Do some research.  

 

As I posted before,  amazing how easy it is to fool people. 

 

When something like this is only on sites like zerohedge,  Washington's blog,  znd Russia Today,  it's probably fake.  This one is. 

[craigt3365]

Just now, onthesoi said:

 

Just to be clear ...your source is a guy you met on your holiday?

I'm in Lebanon. The guy is taking a break from reporting in Syria.  He's going back in a few days, to Aleppo. So yes, we were both on holiday. 

[simple1]

4 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Well this is a very good starting point at last with compelling physical evidence.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mit-expert-claims-latest-chemical-100819428.html

The author, Theodore Postol, has been involved with a number of conspiracy theories, no way I would trust his conclusions.

[Andaman Al]

7 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Good gosh. You got punked. That pic of the crater is fake. Do some research.  

 

As I posted before,  amazing how easy it is to fool people. 

 

When something like this is only on sites like zerohedge,  Washington's blog,  znd Russia Today,  it's probably fake.  This one is. 

I am not interested in any pictures, I am interested in the analysis by Postol. The picture is the very picture (one of 6) that was cited in the White House Intelligence report as evidence. Please link to where it says the pictures are fake and why the White House used them.

 

Clearly this is not only 'on sites' such as you mention as the link displays. It was also pointed out to you why such news would be unlikely to hit MSM.

 

 

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

The author, Theodore Postol, has been involved with a number of conspiracy theories, no way I would trust his conclusions.

What conspiracy theories has Postol been involved in?

Edited April 22, 2017 by Andaman Al

[simple1]

28 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

I am not interested in any pictures, I am interested in the analysis by Postol.

 

Clearly this is not only 'on sites' such as you mention as the link displays. It was also pointed out to you why such news would be unlikely to hit MSM.

 

 

What conspiracy theories has Postol been involved in?

Perhaps the incorrect term, but many of his opinions have been challenged as ultimately unverifiable e.g.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2016/02/18/dont-doubt-the-iron-dome/

 

Personally I can't really see the point of arguing whether Assad forces launched the latest Sarin attack or not (IMO based upon regime track record they did so). The Assad regime comits numerous crimes against humanity; likely on a daily basis based upon what's been reported on activities in his prisons

Edited April 22, 2017 by simple1

[craigt3365]

Just now, Andaman Al said:

I am not interested in any pictures, I am interested in the analysis by Postol. The picture is the very picture (one of 6) that was cited in the White House Intelligence report as evidence. Please link to where it says the pictures are fake and why the White House used them.

 

Clearly this is not only 'on sites' such as you mention as the link displays. It was also pointed out to you why such news would be unlikely to hit MSM.

 

 

What conspiracy theories has Postol been involved in?

Please show a  credible link to a source showing that picture. The only places I saw were conspiracy theory websites. 

 

As for your last comment,  easy to research this yourself.  Don't forget,  there are people who still believe that the world is flat. Even have a club for it.  And I bet some fall for it. 

 

If it's not in the MSM,  there's probably a good reason why.  It's not credible. 

[Andaman Al]

4 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Perhaps the incorrect term, but many of his opinions have been challenged as ultimately unverifiable e.g.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2016/02/18/dont-doubt-the-iron-dome/

Simple1 you are being disingenuous, please admit it.

 

Postol was involved in a controversial study that claimed that the 'Iron Dome' would not work. That was all. He was not alone in this was he? From the link:

 

Quote

Despite little to show in the way of damages, critics of the Iron Dome missile defense system, Theodore Postol in particular, have remained vocal in their insistence that the system does not work. Professor Postol is most vocal, but other experts have also spoken out, namely the late Richard M. Lloyd, a warhead expert formerly with Raytheon; the late Reuven Pedatzur, a former IDF fighter pilot and proponent of laser-based defensive systems; and Israel Defense Prize winner, Mordechai (Moti) Shefer.

.........

The only person to seriously contest the claims of Postol, Pedatzur, Lloyd and Shefer, is Uzi Rubin (Arms Control and Regional Security for the Middle East blog, Reuters blog), the former head of the Israeli Missile Defense Organization from 1991 to 1999.

And you label this as "many of his opinions have been challenged as unverifiable" ? That is simply not true. And neither does the above example deserve the title of 'conspiracy theories'.

 

Postol made an assessment on Iron Dome - what is the big deal? That assessment can be held on it's merits.  His assessment on the pictures provided by the White House is absolutely sound. Now if the White House have provided fake 'set-up' pictures as evidence that is another story, but the assessment by Postol on the photo's provided makes absolute sense.

[Andaman Al]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

If it's not in the MSM,  there's probably a good reason why.

Yes, I guess there is.      As has been explained.

 

By the way do not start mixing me in with your 'flat earth believers' line that you have become so fond of using lately, or you will lose someone that until now pretty much agrees with you.

 

3 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

As for your last comment,  easy to research this yourself.  Don't forget,  there are people who still believe that the world is flat. Even have a club for it.  And I bet some fall for it. 

So as far as I see Postol has NOT been involved in any conspiracy theories. So you put up the links if that is a theory you support.

 

The photos were the ones used by the white house in support of their intelligence report. Over to you.

[craigt3365]

Just now, Andaman Al said:

I am not interested in any pictures, I am interested in the analysis by Postol. The picture is the very picture (one of 6) that was cited in the White House Intelligence report as evidence. Please link to where it says the pictures are fake and why the White House used them.

 

Clearly this is not only 'on sites' such as you mention as the link displays. It was also pointed out to you why such news would be unlikely to hit MSM.

 

 

What conspiracy theories has Postol been involved in?

An example of how even large media sites get plunked.  False flag articles are only showing up in conspiracy theory websites. 

 

http://www.snopes.com/dm-deleted-syria-story/

[Andaman Al]

5 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

An example of how even large media sites get plunked.  False flag articles are only showing up in conspiracy theory websites. 

 

http://www.snopes.com/dm-deleted-syria-story/

I simply cannot believe you have put up that link when you yourself have been telling everybody on here that they should not consider previous black flag ops by the USA as the situation now is 'completely different'. Unbelievable that you would put up that link. We do not want examples of 'what has or could have happened'. You are saying the photo in the article was fake that I was 'plunked'.

 

The photos were from the White House Intelligence report.

 

Now READ the text of the following link, and comprehend what Postol is saying. Time to open your eyes and read and consider. If you think the photos are fake take it up with the white house. Even Postol states that the provenance of the photos is very doubtful, but states that if they are what we are presented with then his following assessment must be considered accurate. This text is on many different sites and yes it is not in MSM and I have posed that question in my earlier post.

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/assessment-of-white-house-intelligence-report-about-nerve-agent-attack-in-khan-shaykhun-syria/5584867

Edited April 22, 2017 by Andaman Al

[simple1]

14 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Simple1 you are being disingenuous, please admit it.

 

Postol was involved in a controversial study that claimed that the 'Iron Dome' would not work. That was all. He was not alone in this was he? From the link:

 

And you label this as "many of his opinions have been challenged as unverifiable" ? That is simply not true. And neither does the above example deserve the title of 'conspiracy theories'.

 

Postol made an assessment on Iron Dome - what is the big deal? That assessment can be held on it's merits.  His assessment on the pictures provided by the White House is absolutely sound. Now if the White House have provided fake 'set-up' pictures as evidence that is another story, but the assessment by Postol on the photo's provided makes absolute sense.

 

I retracted the term conspiracy theory. No I am not trying to be being to be disingenuous,. As I said above what are you trying to achieve by endeavouring to disclaim Assad's Sarin gas attack - <deleted> the guy and members of his sect are war criminals, plus countless crimes against humanity prior to the Syrian Arab Spring and without doubt so would  be members of other minorities supporting him.

Edited April 22, 2017 by simple1

[Andaman Al]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

 

I retracted the term conspiracy theory. No I am not trying to be being to be disingenuous,. As I said above what are you trying to achieve by endeavouring to disclaim Assad's Sarin gas attack - <deleted> the guy and members of his sect are war criminals, plus countless crimes against humanity prior to the Syrian Arab Spring and without doubt so would  members of other minorities supporting him.

I agree about Assad, but if you are going to go to war and waste thousands more lives of the nations sons and daughters then don't you think you need to go to war on a 100% verifiable claim. I am not 'disclaiming' anything. I am saying Postol's assessment is absolutely sound based on the photo's the White House provided and if that is enough to cast doubt on the version we are being fed then it is enough to cast doubt on wasting one life of one soldier supporting another lie. We lost enough with the last pack of lies.

[Scott]

Please get back on topic.  

 

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Andaman Al said:

I agree about Assad, but if you are going to go to war and waste thousands more lives of the nations sons and daughters then don't you think you need to go to war on a 100% verifiable claim. I am not 'disclaiming' anything. I am saying Postol's assessment is absolutely sound based on the photo's the White House provided and if that is enough to cast doubt on the version we are being fed then it is enough to cast doubt on wasting one life of one soldier supporting another lie. We lost enough with the last pack of lies.

Fair enough, though I really cannot see US forces invading Syria to take on the Assad regime.

[JustNo]

On April 22, 2560 BE at 11:21 AM, simple1 said:

Fair enough, though I really cannot see US forces invading Syria to take on the Assad regime.

It was at least on the cards and it may still be on the cards. if not then the game-plan has been changed. Control from chaos is the main thing they are pushing for in destabilising Middle Eastern countries. 

 

Iraq? Check

Libya? Check

Somalia? Check

Afghanistan? Check

Syria - Any day now

Lebanon - soon

Sudan - not much going on there

Iran - inevitably soon

As he points out, if the Middle East had NO oil then it would be like Arica. Does the US run into African counties to 'save the day' ..? No they don't, they leave the dictators there to run a mock and kill whoever because they stand no gain from storming into those countries. People need to wake up. 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2017 by JustNo