18 minutes ago, hobz said:

Islamophobia and racism are similar in that they judge and entire group of people based on some minority within that group, this is why islamophobes are more prone to be racists as well, because how their brains operate they are susceptible to the same type of arguments that made them islamophobes can make the racists. 

 

Also they all seem to be right wing and call anyone that questions them as left wing. Not sure how the right/left thing has a connection..

 

Islamophobia and racism are not similar, only in your eyes maybe. I am totally an islamophobe, but I am not a racist. If you read the qoran it would make anyone phobic, have you read it? We are talking about the truck driver in Sweden who by being a follower of the great book thinks its ok the kill people by running them over. How some people can compare that to falling down the stairs is totally rediculous and naive to say the least!

36 minutes ago, vogie said:

Islamophobia and racism are not similar, only in your eyes maybe. I am totally an islamophobe, but I am not a racist. If you read the qoran it would make anyone phobic, have you read it? We are talking about the truck driver in Sweden who by being a follower of the great book thinks its ok the kill people by running them over. How some people can compare that to falling down the stairs is totally rediculous and naive to say the least!

bigot

noun

1.

a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/bigot

19 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Once again, there are 20 million muslims in western europe. In 2016 about 140 people died from Muslim Terrorist attacks. This boils down to 7 people per million or .7 per 100,000 muslims.  If you think that this constitutes a serious threat, then I advise you to stay indoors and make sure your residence is all on one floor. You're in more danger from stairs than you are from terrorists.

Lies, damned lies and statistics. Never a truer word said with such a pertinent sentiment.

Why don't you quote your figures to the families of the numerous victims of these islamist extremists over the years - you quote  here with such gusto that your statistics must be able to make them feel so much better!

I never at any point stated, or implied, the words "serious threat".

You, however, quoted your own statistics and then arrogantly assumed that I would think your conclusion would constitute a serious threat. This very lame effort at mind reading was nothing but a cheap attempt to deflect my point that it is the heinous actions of the muslim extremists (I reiterate - actions against fellow muslims as well as those from the west) that form the opinions of individuals, not the reporting of such.

As for those statistics - they mean diddly squat to me which renders your pathetic attempt at humour as somewhat redundant.

The only figure that matters is 0.

Zero is the only acceptable number of deaths and injuries that anyone of any persuasion should suffer at the hands of islamist extremists.

Unfortunately we all know the number of deaths and injuries at the hands of these odious creatures is way, way in excess of zero.

6 minutes ago, 14Stevie said:

Lies, damned lies and statistics. Never a truer word said with such a pertinent sentiment.

Why don't you quote your figures to the families of the numerous victims of these islamist extremists over the years - you quote  here with such gusto that your statistics must be able to make them feel so much better!

I never at any point stated, or implied, the words "serious threat".

You, however, quoted your own statistics and then arrogantly assumed that I would think your conclusion would constitute a serious threat. This very lame effort at mind reading was nothing but a cheap attempt to deflect my point that it is the heinous actions of the muslim extremists (I reiterate - actions against fellow muslims as well as those from the west) that form the opinions of individuals, not the reporting of such.

As for those statistics - they mean diddly squat to me which renders your pathetic attempt at humour as somewhat redundant.

The only figure that matters is 0 deaths and injuries that anyone of any persuasion should suffer at the hands of islamist extremists.

Unfortunately we all know the number of deaths and injuries at the hands of these odious creatures is way, way in excess of zero.

Once again, why is it that sentiments of people whose families have been murdered are taken as being some kind of guiding principle or of paramount importance? Policy should be implemented on the basis of rage, grief and the desire for vengeance? That's a good justification for lynch mobs but it's no way to run a country or do law enforcement.

It's people like you, who mark these murders as a special and paramount class of crime who are actually giving oxygen to these terrorists. If these attacks were just regarded as crimes and got little no more publicity than other murders,these murderers would have a lot less incentive to commit them.

As for statistics being irrelevant to you, who cares?  To serious people who fight crime, statistics are hugely important in creating and implementing strategy and tactics. Let's be grateful that you are not numbered among those people. 

On the one hand you state that "I never at any point stated, or implied, the words "serious threat"." On the other you state that "The only figure that matters is 0 deaths and injuries that anyone of any persuasion should suffer at the hands of islamist extremists." If this is your attitude about threats that aren't serious, how much more extreme can your attitude be about threats that are?

 

 

21 hours ago, Senior Player said:

You still haven't explained what this "international cultural justice" entails. Yes, I understand that the coalition forces invaded Iraq on a folly, a lie, a pretence, but how has this made the entire Muslim population feel "worthless"? Did they feel worthless when the western NATO allies put a stop to Muslim ethnic cleansing in Bosnia?

 

Look, this Swedish attack, much like the London one and the next forever onwards,  has been carried out by followers of Islam who have a certain goal. Their goal isn't to divide people of different faiths, their goal is to install a worldwide Caliphate and replace all other beliefs using terror, bombs, and whatever means necessary. Europe is now seen as a soft target. The more successful these attacks become, the more will join in to achieve their ultimate goal. You do yourself no favours by being a water-carrier for these people by blaming everything on the Iraq/Kuwait conflict, or Palastine, or whatever. Islamic terrorism's goal is a European Caliphate. Getting warmer? Sound familiar?

You didn't get it. All right, I'll have to be explicit. The thorn in the flesh that is causing Muslim low self esteem and whose effects has spread like a cancer worldwide is Palestine. The proof is in Bin Laden's stated objectives for 9/11, which was the mother of all anti-western jihadist attacks. Everything has stemmed from that. This attack in Sweden, the attack in Westminster, in Berlin at Christmas, the first vehicular attack in Nice, various attacks in Paris in recent years... loss of pride is the only thing connecting and explaining them all.

 

Indeed, ham-fisted western interventions Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya have inflamed the situation further. Rampant immigration obviously increases the chances of having dislocated, disaffected Muslims doing these things in your own country, but that's not the root cause. The root cause, the biggest single factor, is Palestine.

 

The solution in three words is independence for Palestine. That is no longer the complete solution that it once was, but it's the biggest single step possible to defuse the situation by restoring some Muslim pride. The west has never adequately understood this. No one in this forum understands this. But until a solution is reached for Palestine, sporadic attacks in Europe such as this one in Sweden can be expected to continue - especially now that every radicalised individual has realised he can join the cause simply by driving a vehicle into a crowd -

4 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

You didn't get it. All right, I'll have to be explicit. The thorn in the flesh that is causing Muslim low self esteem and whose effects has spread like a cancer worldwide is Palestine. The proof is in Bin Laden's stated objectives for 9/11, which was the mother of all anti-western jihadist attacks. Everything has stemmed from that. This attack in Sweden, the attack in Westminster, in Berlin at Christmas, the first vehicular attack in Nice, various attacks in Paris in recent years... loss of pride is the only thing connecting and explaining them all.

 

Indeed, ham-fisted western interventions Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya have inflamed the situation further. Rampant immigration obviously increases the chances of having dislocated, disaffected Muslims doing these things in your own country, but that's not the root cause. The root cause, the biggest single factor, is Palestine.

 

The solution in three words is independence for Palestine. That is no longer the complete solution that it once was, but it's the biggest single step possible to defuse the situation by restoring some Muslim pride. The west has never adequately understood this. No one in this forum understands this. But until a solution is reached for Palestine, sporadic attacks in Europe such as this one in Sweden can be expected to continue - especially now that every radicalised individual has realised he can join the cause simply by driving a vehicle into a crowd -

30 years ago you might have had a point. That day is long past.

19 hours ago, sotsira said:

gonna need to come up for some air

so remove your head from your a+s$s.

Don't worry if he falls into the wrong hands is head will be removed for him. 

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Don't worry if he falls into the wrong hands is head will be removed for him. 

I'll keep my focus on real threats to my person. I'll leave the paranoia to you and your fellow travelers.

16 hours ago, alocacoc said:

Here are some moderate muslims, in the middle of London.

 

When the leftists will wake up? Never, because they hate our western values. They live in their own bubble. They don't understand, they will attacked first from the religion of peace. Pure hate.

 

 

What did the London mayor have to say about this demo and the Sweden attack. ?

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

What did the London mayor have to say abouts demo and the Sweden attack. ?

Hey, did you hear about something called Google? Do you know that you can actually look this kind of stuff up?

Sadiq Khan says 'London skands united with Stockholm' after truck attack at shopping mall leaves four dead

London mayor Sadiq Khan said the city “stands united with Stockholm” after a hijacked truck ploughed into a shopping centre in the Swedish capital killing four people and injuring 15 more.

Mr Khan said it appeared Sweden had seen “a despicable act of terrorism aimed at harming innocent people and attacking our shared values of democracy, freedom, justice and tolerance." 

 

He said: “Londoners know how it feels to suffer from senseless and cowardly terrorism.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/stockholm-attack-sadiq-khan-says-london-stands-united-with-stockholm-after-truck-ploughs-into-a3510441.html

10 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I'll keep my focus on real threats to my person. I'll leave the paranoia to you and your fellow travelers.

Are you ex-mil by chance?  American?  At times, I suss a familiar discipline in your approach to these articles.  Hovering at the 5,000' level, maintaining perspective.   Aye?  Nay?  Not even close?

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

The word "racist" has acquired an extended meaning. That said, I suggest that instead of using that word, "bigot" be used instead. Is that better?

The Sweden attack along with many previous ones is caused by belief in Islam, I dislike any of the religions or sects but hate muslin terrorists, if that makes me look like a racist, a bigot by some people on er so be it or the hi-jacked Latin Amen. 

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

The Sweden attack along with many previous ones is caused by belief in Islam, I dislike any of the religions or sects but hate muslin terrorists, if that makes me look like a racist, a bigot by some people on er so be it or the hi-jacked Latin Amen. 

No, hating Muslim terrorists doesn't make you a bigot. Hating muslims in general, would, though.

33 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Hey, did you hear about something called Google? Do you know that you can actually look this kind of stuff up?

Sadiq Khan says 'London skands united with Stockholm' after truck attack at shopping mall leaves four dead

London mayor Sadiq Khan said the city “stands united with Stockholm” after a hijacked truck ploughed into a shopping centre in the Swedish capital killing four people and injuring 15 more.

Mr Khan said it appeared Sweden had seen “a despicable act of terrorism aimed at harming innocent people and attacking our shared values of democracy, freedom, justice and tolerance." 

 

He said: “Londoners know how it feels to suffer from senseless and cowardly terrorism.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/stockholm-attack-sadiq-khan-says-london-stands-united-with-stockholm-after-truck-ploughs-into-a3510441.html

What's googles that's what you wear reading pre- interviewed stuff ain't it.  

Troll posts containing music videos have been removed as well as the replies.  

Warning, dont read this if you dont like "leftist views".

 

it makes sense to ask why these muslim terrorists commit their acts of terror. It makes sense to blame islam itself. "They are doing it in the name of islam" "they are following the quoran" ok. This is true.

Why do they hate us so much? "They hate our freedom", "we are infidels according to the quoran", ok, true.

 

But do we ever wonder if there's anything that we can do? 

I can think of two things.

1. American foreign policy in the middle east. Do we even know what the us is doing? Can we trust mainstream media to tell us about the conflicts in the region? Can we trust them to tell us who the US is backing? Who are the US allied with? Who are the enemies of the americans allies? Who and where are US bombing there right now? Where are US troops right now in the region? How many innocents are being killed by drones or bombs? Why? Where? Is this mentioned in mainstream media? How much of this is actually the reason for these attacks? Are they so angry at the US that they are attacking the allies of the US?

 

 

2. How are muslims treated in US and europe? Are we discriminating against them? Surely sweden cannot be accused of this??? Sweden?? But is it easy to get a job if you come to an interview wearing a burqa? Is it? Do you get more calls back when your name is svensson as opposed to muhammad? Is this creating anger? 

 

Im not saying that the terrorists are right. I condemn their attacks and hope they get the most severe punishment under law.

But, if we really wanna avoid more like this we gotta look at the parts that we CAN change.. We cant change islam.. We cant close the borders (its not fair to the muslims that are peaceful).. But we can change US middle eastern policy. We can change how we treat muslims (and other minorities).

Will that solve the problem completely. No.

 

 

Edited April 9, 20179 yr by hobz

4 hours ago, vogie said:

Islamophobia and racism are not similar, only in your eyes maybe. I am totally an islamophobe, but I am not a racist. If you read the qoran it would make anyone phobic, have you read it? We are talking about the truck driver in Sweden who by being a follower of the great book thinks its ok the kill people by running them over. How some people can compare that to falling down the stairs is totally rediculous and naive to say the least!

I think maybe we have a different definition of the word similar. 

I never said that all islamophobes are racists or vice versa.

Im just saying that many times there's the same type of underlying reasoning behind both, that's why i think they are similar.

Or lets say that i bet that if you take 100 racists and 100 non racists, i bet that islamophobia occurs more frequently in the group of racists. And vice versa. :)

21 hours ago, transam said:

If your daughter was taken out by a Muslim nut what would your thoughts be....?

If your daughter was raped by the captain of the football team, what would your reaction be? 

I know i would want him tortured to death.. But thats not how civilized society works.

 

Banning muslims etc just makes everything worse. 

 

1 minute ago, hobz said:

If your daughter was raped by the captain of the football team, what would your reaction be? 

I know i would want him tortured to death.. But thats not how civilized society works.

 

Banning muslims etc just makes everything worse. 

 

I personally have never said ban all Muslims......The fact now is that Muslim folk who live in Christian countries are killing anyone of any religion even their own by using any means to take out anyone....Their own mother could be taken out by their killing spree..It's just crazy stuff....

5 minutes ago, hobz said:

Banning muslims etc just makes everything worse. 

 

 

If Islamic countries such as Brunei can ban the open practice of Christianity, building of churches or other places of worship while building mosques all over the world, why should not countries be allowed to ban mosques and the open practice of Islam?

 

Myanmar is looking a good bet nowadays for retirement once the visa issues are resolved.

1 minute ago, transam said:

I personally have never said ban all Muslims......The fact now is that Muslim folk who live in Christian countries are killing anyone of any religion even their own by using any means to take out anyone....Their own mother could be taken out by their killing spree..It's just crazy stuff....

Yes, it's really sad, really bad, but blaming aside, what can we do?

 

6 minutes ago, Flustered said:

 

If Islamic countries such as Brunei can ban the open practice of Christianity, building of churches or other places of worship while building mosques all over the world, why should not countries be allowed to ban mosques and the open practice of Islam?

 

Myanmar is looking a good bet nowadays for retirement once the visa issues are resolved.

The problem is that banning islam would not have the desired effect. It would just radicalize more muslims. Literally the worst idea if you want to prevent these types of attacks. If you want to go down this path, then you must eradicate islam completely, massive bloodbath, massive amount of innocent muslims killed. I bet they did this to christians in some places. Not saying it's fair. Just being pragmatic.

 

I bet if you tried banning christianity in texas you would see something similar lol. Imagine the texas christians goikg crazy with pickuptrucks and ar-15s?? U TRY TO STOP MUH CHURCH? *RAT-T-T-TAT* YIIIHAA

Edited April 9, 20179 yr by hobz

13 minutes ago, hobz said:

I think maybe we have a different definition of the word similar. 

I never said that all islamophobes are racists or vice versa.

Im just saying that many times there's the same type of underlying reasoning behind both, that's why i think they are similar.

Or lets say that i bet that if you take 100 racists and 100 non racists, i bet that islamophobia occurs more frequently in the group of racists. And vice versa. :)

What is wrong with being a islamophobe, it does not make people bad, it just means they have some knowledge of the book and don't agree with it, my parogative, my choice. I think it is worse being an islamophile and not noticing what is going on around you! I will ask you again, have you read the quran? If you had you may not be spouting such a maelstrom of gobblygook.

"100 racists and 100 non racists" whats that all about? Show me some evidence about this, you can't because its just something you have made up, if you can't write anything sensible, better not write anything at all. People on here are too quick to label other members with words they know nothing about

6 minutes ago, hobz said:

Yes, it's really sad, really bad, but blaming aside, what can we do?

 

The West took out Saddams huge army in days, yet these ISIS murderers are really chuffed that the West can't take them out in many months.....The simple reason is no boots on the ground. If the West got boots on the ground the ISIS episode would have been dealt with and their followers made to think..

The bombing is a waste of time and innocents are being taken out, to me that's shit..

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

What is wrong with being a islamophobe, it does not make people bad, it just means they have some knowledge of the book and don't agree with it, my parogative, my choice. I think it is worse being an islamophile and not noticing what is going on around you! I will ask you again, have you read the quran? If you had you may not be spouting such a maelstrom of gobblygook.

"100 racists and 100 non racists" whats that all about? Show me some evidence about this, you can't because its just something you have made up, if you can't write anything sensible, better not write anything at all. People on here are too quick to label other members with words they know nothing about

You are not an islamophobe! You just dont agree with the quoran. An islamohpobe is someone who dislikes all muslims. 

Either my or your definition of islamophobe is incorrect. Explains why we argue. Simple misunderstanding.

 

I have not read the entire quoran. 

But, i can see that statistically most muslims are not terrorists.

I also have had some muslim friends and they seemed to be normal people with just a different religion.

 

 

As for the connection between racism and islamophobia i think the connection is so obvious that it doesn't need proof. But hey, i cant prove it,it you're right. I guess someone could make a survey to confirm it. 

Do you believe there is no connection at all? Really??

Edited April 9, 20179 yr by hobz

3 minutes ago, hobz said:

You are not an islamophobe! You just dont agree with the quoran. An islamohpobe is someone who dislikes all muslims. 

Either my or your definition of islamophobe is incorrect. Explains why we argue. Simple misunderstanding.

 

I have not read the entire quoran. 

But, i can see that statistically most muslims are not terrorists.

I also have had some muslim friends and they seemed to be normal people with just a different religion.

Try burning the quran in front of them, see if they are your friends then!

Edited April 9, 20179 yr by vogie

10 minutes ago, transam said:

The West took out Saddams huge army in days, yet these ISIS murderers are really chuffed that the West can't take them out in many months.....The simple reason is no boots on the ground. If the West got boots on the ground the ISIS episode would have been dealt with and their followers made to think..

The bombing is a waste of time and innocents are being taken out, to me that's shit..

Wow! You are citing the Iraqi intervention as a success! Yes, Saddam's army was taken out.  And then what followed? Oh yes, Isis.

11 minutes ago, transam said:

The West took out Saddams huge army in days, yet these ISIS murderers are really chuffed that the West can't take them out in many months.....The simple reason is no boots on the ground. If the West got boots on the ground the ISIS episode would have been dealt with and their followers made to think..

The bombing is a waste of time and innocents are being taken out, to me that's shit..

Yes, but boots on the ground need to leave one day? Yes? What happens then,? Isis 2.0, boots on the ground, leavw, isis 3.0. Repeat.

I would like to point out that some 260+ people will die this year in Sweden from traffic accidents  (one of the lowest rates in the world), more alarming is the over 60 that will die from drowning. Between traffic deaths and drowning that is almost one person per day. 
 
I am certainly not defending somebody intentionally using a motor vehicle as a murder weapon  but only trying to put this particular event in some sort of perspective and show how international coverage of these events may cause some people to be susceptible to confirmation bias in their attitude to muslims and immigrants. 
TH 

And more died of cancer, and even more of heart attacks.

So what? We are talking about murder, not others causes of death.

Sent from my SM-J710F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Try burning the quran in front of them, see if they are your friends then!

Lol, i dont even know how to respond. Are you serious?