Curious About Land Confiscation

[stevieff]

I would be interested to know if anyone has had their company investigated or their land confiscated because of the alleged Thai crackdown on foreigners owning house and land thru companies. I personally have neither read nor heard of anyone losing their property, has anyone else? I mean, after all, it's been a full seven months since this crackdown was announced. Just curious.

[johnnyk]

I have read somewhere that if the authorities deem the land ownership dodgy that there is a one-year period within which it must be sold.

[dsfbrit]

Stevieff, I asked the same question about 6 weeks ago and there was not a single case reported.

Some sensible comments about it all were made and some feedback from some sad flamers, but that was about it.

The story at the moment is that the interim government is looking at the constitution to see how it may/will be modified to deal with land issues.

They were to report within 60 days, which is early next month I believe.

Personally I dont see them allowing farang to own land and they will come up with some Draconian measures that nobody understands nor can implement and it will all die a a slow death and those of us with land can sleep again (until the next time).

If I am wrong, we do indeed have 1 year to dispose of our land as JohnnyK rightly points out.

If that happens I will probably do the 30 year lease thing with my wife - at least that has been checked out by the Supreme Court here so is a relatively safe method.

Mind you, if I can do nothing and stay as I am - I dont want to sell the place anyway - then I may remain below the radar forever - hooray.

Oh well - off to the garden for breakfast (while I still have the garden I intend to enjoy it)

Merry Xmas.

[stevieff]

Stevieff, I asked the same question about 6 weeks ago and there was not a single case reported.

Some sensible comments about it all were made and some feedback from some sad flamers, but that was about it.

The story at the moment is that the interim government is looking at the constitution to see how it may/will be modified to deal with land issues.

They were to report within 60 days, which is early next month I believe.

Personally I dont see them allowing farang to own land and they will come up with some Draconian measures that nobody understands nor can implement and it will all die a a slow death and those of us with land can sleep again (until the next time).

If I am wrong, we do indeed have 1 year to dispose of our land as JohnnyK rightly points out.

If that happens I will probably do the 30 year lease thing with my wife - at least that has been checked out by the Supreme Court here so is a relatively safe method.

Mind you, if I can do nothing and stay as I am - I dont want to sell the place anyway - then I may remain below the radar forever - hooray.

Oh well - off to the garden for breakfast (while I still have the garden I intend to enjoy it)

Merry Xmas.

Thank you for your response. I have read a great many posts and comments on the topic, but to date, have not heard of anyone losing their property. I have read of some farangs attempting to sell their property at a loss because of concerns for the future. Merry Christas to you as well.

[dsfbrit]

Thank you for your response. I have read a great many posts and comments on the topic, but to date, have not heard of anyone losing their property. I have read of some farangs attempting to sell their property at a loss because of concerns for the future. Merry Christas to you as well.

Over the last months a lot of people have made a lease or usufruct with their wife or trusted friend. Mostly a lease with their wife.

More recently there seems to be a move to make a lease with the developer - a scenario full of worms in my humble opinion.

I get the feeling most people do this so they can have 'peace of mind' and sleep better at night - fair enough I respect their decision.

As I sleep fine at night - I have decided to wait.

I didn't feel like that in May when this implementing of the laws was announced, but after spending a lot of time understanding all the issues - I feel there is very little to be gained by making a decision until all the facts are known.

That includes both seeing the new constitution when it is finished and its implementation after several months or more.

Lets face it the written word on various laws and the implementation (or often lack of it) in Thailand

can be quite different.

As for farang selling their places I have seen that as well. Around here there are now 6 places for sale and not one sold in in the last few months.

The thing is the farang owners probably dont need the money so are only selling in a minor (major?) panic. When the Thais come in with such small offers (i have read of 30 percent of asking price being offered) the farang 'back is up' and they think - '!!!! off' - and decide to wait and see what happens with the law.

I forgot the other method farang can use - put the land in the kids name and lease - even if I hurry, I cannot do that for another 9 months anyway.

Just think - as the little fellow is born I will be there with a pen and 30 year lease for him to sign!!!!

hmmm... now theres an idea!!!

Edited December 21, 2006 by dsfbrit

[stevieff]

Thank you for your response. I have read a great many posts and comments on the topic, but to date, have not heard of anyone losing their property. I have read of some farangs attempting to sell their property at a loss because of concerns for the future. Merry Christas to you as well.

Over the last months a lot of people have made a lease or usufruct with their wife or trusted friend. Mostly a lease with their wife.

More recently there seems to be a move to make a lease with the developer - a scenario full of worms in my humble opinion.

I get the feeling most people do this so they can have 'peace of mind' and sleep better at night - fair enough I respect their decision.

As I sleep fine at night - I have decided to wait.

I didn't feel like that in May when this implementing of the laws was announced, but after spending a lot of time understanding all the issues - I feel there is very little to be gained by making a decision until all the facts are known.

That includes both seeing the new constitution when it is finished and its implementation after several months or more.

Lets face it the written word on various laws and the implementation (or often lack of it) in Thailand

can be quite different.

As for farang selling their places I have seen that as well. Around here there are now 6 places for sale and not one sold in in the last few months.

The thing is the farang owners probably dont need the money so are only selling in a minor (major?) panic. When the Thais come in with such small offers (i have read of 30 percent of asking price being offered) the farang 'back is up' and they think - '!!!! off' - and decide to wait and see what happens with the law.

I forgot the other method farang can use - put the land in the kids name and lease - even if I hurry, I cannot do that for another 9 months anyway.

Just think - as the little fellow is born I will be there with a pen and 30 year lease for him to sign!!!!

hmmm... now theres an idea!!!

Good reponse. The farangs who are in a somewhat panic mode will never get back even a fraction of their investment, might as well just give it away. I read in one comment where the poster had a friend, who because of future concerns, was trying to sell a 6 million baht house for 5 million. Now if the market was that bad, what farang would pay 5 million? Or 4? Or even 3 million? Makes no sense. If you want to panic and sell, you can sell to the Thais at 30 percent of market value, because that is what you will get.

[dsfbrit]

Good reponse. The farangs who are in a somewhat panic mode will never get back even a fraction of their investment, might as well just give it away. I read in one comment where the poster had a friend, who because of future concerns, was trying to sell a 6 million baht house for 5 million. Now if the market was that bad, what farang would pay 5 million? Or 4? Or even 3 million? Makes no sense. If you want to panic and sell, you can sell to the Thais at 30 percent of market value, because that is what you will get.

Agreed.

Something I do know for sure though. The moment there is even 1 square metre of land repossessed in some muddy backwater swamp - there will be the 'I told you so' brigade out in force.

So the fact you have not (yet) received any comments on this thread suggesting there have been any land repossessions is a good thing in my opinion.

No news is good news.

Slightly off topic maybe - do you know of anyone who has actually sold a house at a massive loss? I dont even know of a case like that - let alone land confiscation.

[stevieff]

Good reponse. The farangs who are in a somewhat panic mode will never get back even a fraction of their investment, might as well just give it away. I read in one comment where the poster had a friend, who because of future concerns, was trying to sell a 6 million baht house for 5 million. Now if the market was that bad, what farang would pay 5 million? Or 4? Or even 3 million? Makes no sense. If you want to panic and sell, you can sell to the Thais at 30 percent of market value, because that is what you will get.

Agreed.

Something I do know for sure though. The moment there is even 1 square metre of land repossessed in some muddy backwater swamp - there will be the 'I told you so' brigade out in force.

So the fact you have not (yet) received any comments on this thread suggesting there have been any land repossessions is a good thing in my opinion.

No news is good news.

Slightly off topic maybe - do you know of anyone who has actually sold a house at a massive loss? I dont even know of a case like that - let alone land confiscation.

In response to your final question, the answer would be no, I have not heard or read of a farang making a distress sale. I do look from time to time at real estate web-sites from Phuket and Samui and while the prices have not deflated, the market has certainly cooled. I have not witnessed any agencies going out of business, which to me would be a pretty clear indicator of a bad market. I personally live in the USA, so it's kind of hard to get a good handle on things there, but I did speak with a friend, an agent on Samui, a few weeks back and he told me the market is fairly brisk for town-houses in the 3-5 million baht range, but slow for the upper-end villas and land. I woudn't have any advice for people owning property via the company route, except to say selling to the Thai secondary market is probably not a good idea. Thais have this thing with ghosts. Also, they like to find a piece of land cheap and build themselves, unless they are in BKK, very difficult to do that there. Anyway, cheers.

[donx]

I look at Thai real estate websites often. Since I live in the US, I don't know how the market is doing over there. One thing that tells me real estate in resort areas isn't going as well as before is that I haven't received a bimonthly (1 issue every two months) newsletter from a well-known Phuket real estate agency since June. I had been receiving them regularly for the past few years. Their website is still available, but things must not be going well if they completely, and without explanation, stopped sending out the newsletters.

[dsfbrit]

I did speak with a friend, an agent on Samui, a few weeks back and he told me the market is fairly brisk for town-houses in the 3-5 million baht range, but slow for the upper-end villas and land.

Did your friend say how the farang are 'owning' the piece of land under the townhouse. Company/lease etc...

[brahmburgers]

I have read somewhere that if the authorities deem the land ownership dodgy that there is a one-year period within which it must be sold.

[dsfbrit]

I look at Thai real estate websites often. Since I live in the US, I don't know how the market is doing over there. One thing that tells me real estate in resort areas isn't going as well as before is that I haven't received a bimonthly (1 issue every two months) newsletter from a well-known Phuket real estate agency since June. I had been receiving them regularly for the past few years. Their website is still available, but things must not be going well if they completely, and without explanation, stopped sending out the newsletters.

If you are in touch with this agency in the near future, perhaps you could feedback how the farang are now 'owning' the land.

I keep asking people on various threads here and elsewhere, but have yet to receive an answer - perhaps its a secret?

[brahmburgers]

I been doing a real estate gig in northern Thailand for 2 years. Many farang come to look, but very few actually put their money down. Not surprising considering restrictive Thai regulations of foreign ownership. Many farang love this C.Rai area, but wind up kowtowing to their Thai wives and getting land in C.Mai - which they often regret later. The women prefer C.Mai for 2 reasons: #1 more shopping #2 rural land is considered a step back, as that is where they came from (rice farming villages) and all their focus now goes to becoming sophisicated & citified. ....so the big dumb farang drops his dream of getting a rural spread in the beautiful country, and follows the wifes wishes to plop his money down in the city or walled in suburb (all houses in Thai suburbs are behind walls or fences). Then the (likely) break-up, and he is back at the bar counter drowing sorrow with suds.

[stevieff]

I did speak with a friend, an agent on Samui, a few weeks back and he told me the market is fairly brisk for town-houses in the 3-5 million baht range, but slow for the upper-end villas and land.

Did your friend say how the farang are 'owning' the piece of land under the townhouse. Company/lease etc...

No, I did not ask him specifically about that, but this past summer I did ask another broker there about the company route, and he informed me people were strenghtening their company structure, i.e. making sure the nominees had the assets to be in the company. I do know that people are still purchasing there via the company method, to what extent, I am not sure.

[donx]

I look at Thai real estate websites often. Since I live in the US, I don't know how the market is doing over there. One thing that tells me real estate in resort areas isn't going as well as before is that I haven't received a bimonthly (1 issue every two months) newsletter from a well-known Phuket real estate agency since June. I had been receiving them regularly for the past few years. Their website is still available, but things must not be going well if they completely, and without explanation, stopped sending out the newsletters.

If you are in touch with this agency in the near future, perhaps you could feedback how the farang are now 'owning' the land.

I keep asking people on various threads here and elsewhere, but have yet to receive an answer - perhaps its a secret?

This website has always been upfront about the purchasing options for foreigners:

1. A unit in a registered Condominium

2. A building (as distinct from it's land)

3. A registered leasehold of up to 30 years for all types of titled land (and/or buildings). However with appropriate extension and purchase options a 30 year lease can become tantamount to freehold purchase.

They don't even entertain the Thai company route. I will say that I'm not convinced about a 30 year lease being tantamount to a freehold purchase. I would assume that many of the buyers are leasing the developers land for 30 years while owning the building. They probably have clauses in the lease that states that if the property laws change during the 30 years to allow foreigners to own the land, then the land will automatically be transferred to the foreigner.

For me and for some of the other foreign "owners", all property purchases will be in my wife's name. I have a rock solid relationship with her and we are the parents of 3 offspring. Also, I will never invest more in Thailand than I can afford to walk away from.

[stevieff]

I look at Thai real estate websites often. Since I live in the US, I don't know how the market is doing over there. One thing that tells me real estate in resort areas isn't going as well as before is that I haven't received a bimonthly (1 issue every two months) newsletter from a well-known Phuket real estate agency since June. I had been receiving them regularly for the past few years. Their website is still available, but things must not be going well if they completely, and without explanation, stopped sending out the newsletters.

If you are in touch with this agency in the near future, perhaps you could feedback how the farang are now 'owning' the land.

I keep asking people on various threads here and elsewhere, but have yet to receive an answer - perhaps its a secret?

This website has always been upfront about the purchasing options for foreigners:

1. A unit in a registered Condominium

2. A building (as distinct from it's laropend)

3. A registered leasehold of up to 30 years for all types of titled land (and/or buildings). However with appropriate extension and purchase options a 30 year lease can become tantamount to freehold purchase.

They don't even entertain the Thai company route. I will say that I'm not convinced about a 30 year lease being tantamount to a freehold purchase. I would assume that many of the buyers are leasing the developers land for 30 years while owning the building. They probably have clauses in the lease that states that if the property laws change during the 30 years to allow foreigners to own the land, then the land will automatically be transferred to the foreigner.

For me and for some of the other foreign "owners", all property purchases will be in my wife's name. I have a rock solid relationship with her and we are the parents of 3 offspring. Also, I will never invest more in Thailand than I can afford to walk away from.

A 30 year lease is not tantamount to a freehold purchase and here is why. Let's say you purchase a property for a plus 30 year lease, and you live in that property for 20 years. When you try to re-sell that property, there are only 40 years left on the lease, which means the property has devalued by one third because of the time you have used on the lease. A freehold, on the other hand, is in perpetuity, lasts forever, so there is no capital loss. The primary vehicle that has propelled foreign investment in Thailand is the company route, for the simple reason I have illustrated above. People simply won't invest nearly as much in lease-hold as opposed to free-hold.

[lannarebirth]

Good reponse. The farangs who are in a somewhat panic mode will never get back even a fraction of their investment, might as well just give it away. I read in one comment where the poster had a friend, who because of future concerns, was trying to sell a 6 million baht house for 5 million. Now if the market was that bad, what farang would pay 5 million? Or 4? Or even 3 million? Makes no sense. If you want to panic and sell, you can sell to the Thais at 30 percent of market value, because that is what you will get.

Agreed.

Something I do know for sure though. The moment there is even 1 square metre of land repossessed in some muddy backwater swamp - there will be the 'I told you so' brigade out in force.

So the fact you have not (yet) received any comments on this thread suggesting there have been any land repossessions is a good thing in my opinion.

No news is good news.

Slightly off topic maybe - do you know of anyone who has actually sold a house at a massive loss? I dont even know of a case like that - let alone land confiscation.

I know of a farang developer who this week sold a half finished house to another farang as he was in a cash flow bind to finish some other homes. He sold at a profit he said. I'm also aware that despite the fear, and in some cases panic, many farangs are experiencing, Thais are actively in the property market right now and seem very enthusiastic about the future. Much better doing business with Thais, as they see something they want, and if they have the means, they buy it. I think farangs tend to give too much importance to farangs in the property market. Except in some very specific locales, they're really a very small minority of land/home buyers.

[dsfbrit]

I know of a farang developer who this week sold a half finished house to another farang as he was in a cash flow bind to finish some other homes. He sold at a profit he said. I'm also aware that despite the fear, and in some cases panic, many farangs are experiencing, Thais are actively in the property market right now and seem very enthusiastic about the future. Much better doing business with Thais, as they see something they want, and if they have the means, they buy it. I think farangs tend to give too much importance to farangs in the property market. Except in some very specific locales, they're really a very small minority of land/home buyers.

Interesting. Any more details. I guess this was in Chiang Mai as thats where you are located.

What method will (when finished) the farang buyer use to 'own' the land (company/lease with wife/lease with developer).

Are the Thais that you know who are buying property from farang paying a reasonable price or expecting a massively knockdowned price?

oh ... and Merry Xmas

Edited December 23, 2006 by dsfbrit

[stevieff]

Good reponse. The farangs who are in a somewhat panic mode will never get back even a fraction of their investment, might as well just give it away. I read in one comment where the poster had a friend, who because of future concerns, was trying to sell a 6 million baht house for 5 million. Now if the market was that bad, what farang would pay 5 million? Or 4? Or even 3 million? Makes no sense. If you want to panic and sell, you can sell to the Thais at 30 percent of market value, because that is what you will get.

Agreed.

Something I do know for sure though. The moment there is even 1 square metre of land repossessed in some muddy backwater swamp - there will be the 'I told you so' brigade out in force.

So the fact you have not (yet) received any comments on this thread suggesting there have been any land repossessions is a good thing in my opinion.

No news is good news.

Slightly off topic maybe - do you know of anyone who has actually sold a house at a massive loss? I dont even know of a case like that - let alone land confiscation.

I know of a farang developer who this week sold a half finished house to another farang as he was in a cash flow bind to finish some other homes. He sold at a profit he said. I'm also aware that despite the fear, and in some cases panic, many farangs are experiencing, Thais are actively in the property market right now and seem very enthusiastic about the future. Much better doing business with Thais, as they see something they want, and if they have the means, they buy it. I think farangs tend to give too much importance to farangs in the property market. Except in some very specific locales, they're really a very small minority of land/home buyers.

A great deal of what you said is true, but a key feature about Thais in the market is when you stated " and if they have the means".

[lannarebirth]

I know of a farang developer who this week sold a half finished house to another farang as he was in a cash flow bind to finish some other homes. He sold at a profit he said. I'm also aware that despite the fear, and in some cases panic, many farangs are experiencing, Thais are actively in the property market right now and seem very enthusiastic about the future. Much better doing business with Thais, as they see something they want, and if they have the means, they buy it. I think farangs tend to give too much importance to farangs in the property market. Except in some very specific locales, they're really a very small minority of land/home buyers.

Interesting. Any more details. I guess this was in Chiang Mai as thats where you are located.

What method will (when finished) the farang buyer use to 'own' the land (company/lease with wife/lease with developer).

Are the Thais that you know who are buying property from farang paying a reasonable price or expecting a massively knockdowned price?

oh ... and Merry Xmas

I think he sold to another developer. At least another companys sign has appeaed in front of the house. I can't say with certainty the method of aqcuisition, but if I was to guess, I'd say company.

The Thais I know want "prestige" land. waterfalls, riverfront, mountain, forest (though with top title). They pay top dollar. More than farangs in my experience. You usually end up paying higher commissions to intermediaries for introductions to these people though.

Edited December 23, 2006 by lannarebirth

[johnnyk]

A 30 year lease is not tantamount to a freehold purchase and here is why. Let's say you purchase a property for a plus 30 year lease, and you live in that property for 20 years. When you try to re-sell that property, there are only 40 years left on the lease, which means the property has devalued by one third because of the time you have used on the lease. A freehold, on the other hand, is in perpetuity, lasts forever, so there is no capital loss. The primary vehicle that has propelled foreign investment in Thailand is the company route, for the simple reason I have illustrated above. People simply won't invest nearly as much in lease-hold as opposed to free-hold.

Abslolutely. Some developers will try to convince people that it is 'tantamount' but the Land Office (the only ones whose opinion matters) will recognize only 30 years. Anything else is an agreement between two private individuals, not recognized by the Land Office and not binding upon heirs or successors.

Simply put, if the lessor dies tough luck the contract/agreement dies with him.

If he sells the property the buyer is obligated to see out your existing 30-year lease, that's all. The buyer has no agreement with you.

Put it this way, I can sell you a car and give you a guarantee but said guarantee does not apply to my son if I die.

[Dupont]

Nice thread.

It would be wrong of anybody on here to suppose that we would just hand over chanote titles and land without the most enormous of legal battles.

Most people are sitting tight for now. This will change should any serious move be made to rob foreigners of property rights however tenuous.

with regard to the 30 year leases. The thing to do would be to arrange a 30 year lease with the option of 30 years at the end but also with the option to renew this every 15 years. Therefore if the lease holder gets shirty, you have 15 years to resolve the problem.

Given the short term thinking of the Thais it would be just a matter or money and they wouldn't want to wait 15 years for it!!

[dsfbrit]

Dupont agreed.

Curiously, the Thai authorities may not want to bring in Draconian legislation that could see it both lock horns with the wealthiest farangs in Thailand and the Thai legal profession - whose staff are the major source of these nominee shareholders.

If there were a major battle it would make the news in the West and no doubt all the detail of the argument would soon get lost and the headlines in the UK would be along the lines 'Brits robbed of their homes' etc... bad publicity for Thailand indeed.

Mind you I suspect if 'push comes to shove', then most farang will just 'bite the bullet' and find a way to lease it from a Thai.

The New Year will bring some interesing news.

I cannot wait

Have a good Xmas

Edited December 24, 2006 by dsfbrit

[Lancashirelad]

Simply put, if the lessor dies tough luck the contract/agreement dies with him

I believe not so. I am 100% sure i have read that a correctly drawn up 30 year Thai land lease is willable and guaranteed renewable.

[johnnyk]

Up to you.

Where did you read this?

The Land Office recognizes and registers 30 years only. The lease may be willable but only until the end of the original lease, same as a new landowner is bound to respect the original 30 years.

Nothing else is guaranteed or has legal standing, it is merely an agreement between two individuals and if one dies the agreement dies, if the land is sold the new owner is not bound by any personal agreement signed by another person.

I would not want to be in a Thai court at the end of my 30 years.

As said before, if you buy a car from someone the owner prior to him is not on the hook to you no matter what he signed with the guy who sold to you.

Think about it, can you imagine the chaos if there was a series of rolling personal agreements? Nobody would ever sign one because their family could be on the hook for generations.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/index.htm

Edited December 24, 2006 by johnnyk

[dsfbrit]

Up to you.

Where did you read this?

The Land Office recognizes and registers 30 years only. The lease may be willable but only until the end of the original lease, same as a new landowner is bound to respect the original 30 years.

Nothing else is guaranteed or has legal standing, it is merely an agreement between two individuals and if one dies the agreement dies, if the land is sold the new owner is not bound by any personal agreement signed by another person.

I would not want to be in a Thai court at the end of my 30 years.

As said before, if you buy a car from someone the owner prior to him is not on the hook to you no matter what he signed with the guy who sold to you.

Think about it, can you imagine the chaos if there was a series of rolling personal agreements? Nobody would ever sign one because their family could be on the hook for generations.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/index.htm

A terrific link that - thanks JohnnyK - I thought over the last months I now understood all the issues, but this has it all in one place and is comprehensive - I will explore some more after Xmas.

hey Mods could this be pinned, it really does appear to explain all the issues in a sensible easy to read way.

And Merry Xmas mods and thanks for your help this year

Edited December 25, 2006 by dsfbrit

[Noodles]

Thank you for your response. I have read a great many posts and comments on the topic, but to date, have not heard of anyone losing their property. I have read of some farangs attempting to sell their property at a loss because of concerns for the future. Merry Christas to you as well.

More recently there seems to be a move to make a lease with the developer - a scenario full of worms in my humble opinion.

I am planning on buying a plot of land from a developer. We originally were going to buy it freehold but with the company problems, the developer has decided to go with the lease option.

What are the worms you speak off. I would like to hear opinions on this option before I go any further.

Thanks

[quiksilva]

Johnnyk's post highlighted the biggest hole already. The lease dies when the landlord dies.

This one of the major reasons why Thai banks dont lend on leasehold property, even to Thais. - the exception to this is Siam Commercial Bank who will, but only on properties that are leased from the Crown Property Bureau.

[Dupont]

In response to your final question, the answer would be no, I have not heard or read of a farang making a distress sale. I do look from time to time at real estate web-sites from Phuket and Samui and while the prices have not deflated, the market has certainly cooled. I have not witnessed any agencies going out of business, which to me would be a pretty clear indicator of a bad market. I personally live in the USA, so it's kind of hard to get a good handle on things there, but I did speak with a friend, an agent on Samui, a few weeks back and he told me the market is fairly brisk for town-houses in the 3-5 million baht range, but slow for the upper-end villas and land. I woudn't have any advice for people owning property via the company route, except to say selling to the Thai secondary market is probably not a good idea. Thais have this thing with ghosts. Also, they like to find a piece of land cheap and build themselves, unless they are in BKK, very difficult to do that there. Anyway, cheers.

This is interesting. It looks like they have scared off the rich and us poor rag tag falangs that only have 5 - 10 million to our name, are carrying on as normal!

To paraphrase a quote often on here, it looks like they've "thrown out the baby but not the bathwater"

Mai pen rai, maybe we go next time.