Tradition vs Modernisation: What to do about the lovely old Siamese railways?

[webfact]

Tradition vs Modernisation: What to do about the lovely old Siamese railways?

 

Picture: Daily News / State Railway of Thailand

 

BANGKOK: -- As the modernization of the railways in Thailand picks up pace many people are asking what will become of the traditional architecture on the lines.

 

Should it be kept or simply scrapped.

 

Many of the stations - not least of all the one at Hua Hin that was opened in 1911 - showcase some of the loveliest buildings that can be seen in Thailand.

 

Daily News asked in a feature article what is to become of them once the rolling stock is changed, once the tracks are upgraded, once the high speed Chinese or Japanese trains become a reality.

 

Is tradition to be cast aside and scrapped and assigned to the rubbish bin of history in the name of progress.

 

Or are they to be cherished as an important part of the history of Old Siam?

 

The present government seems hell-bent on dragging the railways into the 21st century and few would argue that the system is in serious need of a complete overhaul.

 

But many lament the passing of an era and have a great affection for the old lines, their stations and their rolling stock.

 

Look at our pictures today and come to your own conclusions.

 

Source: Daily News

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2017-04-13

 

 

 

 

 

[Moonmoon]

Keep the traditional architecture and modernise the facilities. 

[overherebc]

 Should be kept and looked after. Even some of the old lines, loco's and some refurbished coaches.

It would be sad to only have photographs.

[DrTuner]

With Thailand's track record, they'll scrap it and put a soulless shopping mall in there. 

[overherebc]

2 hours ago, DrTuner said:

With Thailand's track record, they'll scrap it and put a soulless shopping mall in there. 

Depressing thought but!!!!

[jollyhangmon]

Tell you something, used to work for the railways performing operative traffic-control and no bigger PITA there than all them 'railway-lovers' at times ... 

But looking at those pics as well as old train-sets etc. it would be a pity if they just scratched them, for sure.

High chances here though i'm afraid. 

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, jollyhangmon said:

Tell you something, used to work for the railways performing operative traffic-control and no bigger PITA there than all them 'railway-lovers' at times ... 

But looking at those pics as well as old train-sets etc. it would be a pity if they just scratched them, for sure.

High chances here though i'm afraid. 

Had a school mate in UK whose father started his construction business by buying all the old railway buildings in our area, post Beecham, and turning them into garden sheds and garages. 

I never thought about it at the time but can now imagine some of those lovely old buildings and how they must have looked or could have looked if preserved.

[jollyhangmon]

3 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Had a school mate in UK whose father started his construction business by buying all the old railway buildings in our area, post Beecham, and turning them into garden sheds and garages. 

I never thought about it at the time but can now imagine some of those lovely old buildings and how they must have looked or could have looked if preserved.

Used to live in one of these buildings built 1871 ad. for almost a decade, walls about a meter thick, very low rent as they were happy someone was still there keeping them heated and had a look about it all ... 

Looking at the pics above i'd say it's almost not possible to finance the up-keeping/renovation that way anywhere in the west nowadays - if not private 'investors' jump in as you mentioned ... 

[ratcatcher]

One of the things many people seem to forget is that the HST tracks will very likely not follow exactly the route of the present metre gauge system. Much of it, if not all, may be on a different permanent way. 

When butcher Beeching axed many of the rural lines in the UK in the 1960s, which were comprehensive and went all over the UK, the change in those days was from "dirty" steam power to dieselisation which was an improvement. . In Thailand's case, they have diesel power, most of which is from the last century, and the main rolling stock fleet is very old. many of the rural stations hearken back to an England (or country of choice) of the 1930s. Many tourist enjoy a trip on Thai trains where they have the time to watch the scenery go by at 50mph not 200mph or more.

There may be room for both systems.

 

[cyberfarang]

Logic says; do what they do in the UK, preserve one or two examples of the old rolling stock and place them in a museum. Keep a shell of the old buildings and modernise the inside of those buildings.

 

But unlike in England, Thailand is not a country that goes out of it`s way to preserve it`s heritage, it`s all about profits and who cares about yesterday.

[nisakiman]

Why does it have to be either / or? It's not beyond the wit of man to modernise the rolling stock and the infrastructure while still keeping the history.

 

Personally, I love the Thai train system as it is, old stock, long delays and all. And many of the stations are wonderful examples of Thai architecture. They have so much character. Even the small ones that seem to be in the middle of nowhere with just a small building and a dirt platform. It would be cultural vandalism to get rid of them.

[overherebc]

We are planning next years UK break already and my wife wants to do the west coast railway in Scotland as part of the holiday. Glasgow to Inverness area.

One of the nicest in UK. Just got to fit the flights car hire hotels together.

If they want an idea there's a restaurant near Fort William that used to be a railway station and the corridor is the old platform Lovely place to visit.

[anon4546543]

33 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

One of the things many people seem to forget is that the HST tracks will very likely not follow exactly the route of the present metre gauge system. Much of it, if not all, may be on a different permanent way. 

When butcher Beeching axed many of the rural lines in the UK in the 1960s, which were comprehensive and went all over the UK, the change in those days was from "dirty" steam power to dieselisation which was an improvement. . In Thailand's case, they have diesel power, most of which is from the last century, and the main rolling stock fleet is very old. many of the rural stations hearken back to an England (or country of choice) of the 1930s. Many tourist enjoy a trip on Thai trains where they have the time to watch the scenery go by at 50mph not 200mph or more.

There may be room for both systems.

 

Thank you for a well reasoned post. With nostalgia, I remember the old steam trains. I worked for many years in Dampier West Aust which is a port for iron ore sales to Asia. The port receives the ore from 400 km away on almost 1 km long trains and ore carriages. The company (Rio) purchased an old steam train from Scotland called something like Pembroke Star. Either way it was world famous for having broken rail speed records in its day. They changed the undercarriage to a gauge compatible and ran trips to inland Australia on occasions when operations permitted. What wonderful experiences. You would need to pay a fortune to have that experience and see such beautiful dry almost desert scenery.

If they can keep the old trains running in Thailand, many tourists could be tempted to travel on them. I love the train trip to Bkk from Prachinburi. It is more nostalgia for me as my uncle travelled this same route as a POW, from BKK to Nahkon Nayok just after the US nuked 2 cities in Japan. Nostalgia... 

[ratcatcher]

10 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

Thank you for a well reasoned post. With nostalgia, I remember the old steam trains. I worked for many years in Dampier West Aust which is a port for iron ore sales to Asia. The port receives the ore from 400 km away on almost 1 km long trains and ore carriages. The company (Rio) purchased an old steam train from Scotland called something like Pembroke Star. Either way it was world famous for having broken rail speed records in its day. They changed the undercarriage to a gauge compatible and ran trips to inland Australia on occasions when operations permitted. What wonderful experiences. You would need to pay a fortune to have that experience and see such beautiful dry almost desert scenery.

If they can keep the old trains running in Thailand, many tourists could be tempted to travel on them. I love the train trip to Bkk from Prachinburi. It is more nostalgia for me as my uncle travelled this same route as a POW, from BKK to Nahkon Nayok just after the US nuked 2 cities in Japan. Nostalgia... 

http://www.australiansteam.com/Pendennis Castle.htm

[anon4546543]

Just now, ratcatcher said:

http://www.australiansteam.com/Pendennis Castle.htm

You got it, thank you. I hope that train still exists, the company let off duty plant mechanics maintain it. What a beautiful machine, painted nearly British racing green and black. Polished steel and copper. It raced the Flying Scotsman circa 1980's in Victoria I think and won. Now I log off of this site and onto www. australia steam. Thank you

[anon4546543]

19 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

http://www.australiansteam.com/Pendennis Castle.htm

Having looked at the post you provided, I realise all the thought mistakes I had. Memory and old age play many tricks.  But I travelled on Pendennis Castle about 5 times in the Pilbara region of West Aust. A region everyone should visit. It is beautiful and other than 2 graceful used to be mountain ranges, now reduced to very high hills, and very high in iron ore, some of the land is so flat that a dog running away from you can still be seen on the horizon 2 days later 

[JAG]

Thank you for a well reasoned post. With nostalgia, I remember the old steam trains. I worked for many years in Dampier West Aust which is a port for iron ore sales to Asia. The port receives the ore from 400 km away on almost 1 km long trains and ore carriages. The company (Rio) purchased an old steam train from Scotland called something like Pembroke Star. Either way it was world famous for having broken rail speed records in its day. They changed the undercarriage to a gauge compatible and ran trips to inland Australia on occasions when operations permitted. What wonderful experiences. You would need to pay a fortune to have that experience and see such beautiful dry almost desert scenery.
If they can keep the old trains running in Thailand, many tourists could be tempted to travel on them. I love the train trip to Bkk from Prachinburi. It is more nostalgia for me as my uncle travelled this same route as a POW, from BKK to Nahkon Nayok just after the US nuked 2 cities in Japan. Nostalgia... 

It was 4079 "Pendennis Castle", a Great Western Railway Castle Class 4 6 0 express passenger locomotive.
They were a very successful class, introduced by the GWR in 1923, and still being built in the early 1950s.
The GWR ran from London (Paddington) to the West of England. I'm sorry but Scotland never came into it!
4079 is now restored at the GWR Society base at Didcot near Oxford.
Sorry to be pedantic, but this is a GWR locomotive. Few things are more important...

[anon4546543]

58 minutes ago, JAG said:

 

It was 4079 "Pendennis Castle", a Great Western Railway Castle Class 4 6 0 express passenger locomotive.
They were a very successful class, introduced by the GWR in 1923, and still being built in the early 1950s.
The GWR ran from London (Paddington) to the West of England. I'm sorry but Scotland never came into it!
4079 is now restored at the GWR Society base at Didcot near Oxford.
Sorry to be pedantic, but this is a GWR locomotive. Few things are more important...

 

Ratcatcher pointed out the error of my ways. And don't  worry about being pedantic, pedantic revives my tired old brain. I got mixed up in the Scottish thing when Pendennis Castle raced the Flying Scotsman in Perth,  West Aust in 1989. (the Castle won). I have travelled on Pendennis Castle about 5 times, maybe more to travel in authentic coaches from Dampier to Tom Price. (about 400 km.) in the Pilbara region of West Aust. Beautiful train and coaches, beautiful scenery, thanks for your post and grateful to know that this masterpiece of machinery is back where it belongs 

[anon4546543]

And thanks to the moderators who have allowed nostalgic posts

[ratcatcher]

1 minute ago, spiderorchid said:

And thanks to the moderators who have allowed nostalgic posts

Nice comment s.o, but the topic is about those lovely old Siamese Railways and not those dreamed off and as yet built HSTs............

 

Hundreds of thousands of tourists ride the nostalgic trip from Thonburi to Kanchanaburi's Sai Yok via the Kwai river bridge to see museums and cemeteries and pay respects to the thousands of fallen allied soldiers who died on that railway.

There are still some operating Japanese built steam locomotives, which they run out on special occasions.

[overherebc]

Nostalgia, I remember when travelling Glasgow to Oban when they had an observation coach with a glass roof and sides that was above the level of the train roof so you got a fantastic view on the journey.

I'm going to try and google for a photo unless someone beats me to it. ?

[overherebc]

Could only find US photos but you get the idea.

[ratcatcher]

11 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Nostalgia, I remember when travelling Glasgow to Oban when they had an observation coach with a glass roof and sides that was above the level of the train roof so you got a fantastic view on the journey.

I'm going to try and google for a photo unless someone beats me to it. ?

Is this something like what you seek?

http://www.westcoastrailways.co.uk/jacobite/jacobite-steam-train-details.cfm

[anon4546543]

11 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

Nice comment s.o, but the topic is about those lovely old Siamese Railways and not those dreamed off and as yet built HSTs............

 

Hundreds of thousands of tourists ride the nostalgic trip from Thonburi to Kanchanaburi's Sai Yok via the Kwai river bridge to see museums and cemeteries and pay respects to the thousands of fallen allied soldiers who died on that railway.

There are still some operating Japanese built steam locomotives, which they run out on special occasions.

That is true, for myself, I have never been there. The real bridge on the Kwai no longer exists. I must go there and pay my respects to the many thousands of Poms, Aussies and Thais who died there. My uncle never reached hell fire pass, and I almost bless the Jap that gave him an excuse not to go. He worked mostly near Kanchanaburi and survived due to Thai locals giving rice and bananas to the prisoners when no Jap or Korean was watching. 

[overherebc]

7 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

Is this something like what you seek?

http://www.westcoastrailways.co.uk/jacobite/jacobite-steam-train-details.cfm

Just found this one.

[anon4546543]

5 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Just found this one.

I have travelled on The Gold class trip from Vancouver to Jasper on the Rocky Mountaineer. The most special train trip in the world. lol

[overherebc]

33 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

Is this something like what you seek?

http://www.westcoastrailways.co.uk/jacobite/jacobite-steam-train-details.cfm

My wife totally fell in love with that area. The Jacobite steam train is the one we want to use.

 

[overherebc]

22 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

I have travelled on The Gold class trip from Vancouver to Jasper on the Rocky Mountaineer. The most special train trip in the world. lol

Never did by train but have driven Calgary to Vancouver and back many times in the 70's. 

[anon4546543]

Maybe the moderaters will allow a bit more nostalgia. Never been to Calgary but got to Bamff. Not correct spelling but you get my drift. Got to Jasper on Rocky Mountaineer, small car to Bamff, back to Jasper, train to Prince Rupert, ferry to Port ? on the north end of Vancouver Island. Best holiday I ever had. Plus the delights of Victoria and the west coast of Vancouver Island. 

[nisakiman]

I used to love the steam trains. When I was a boy, eight or nine, I had quite a long journey to school - a mile walk to the train station, half an hour train journey, then two buses to within a quarter mile of my school. (Can you imagine any child of eight doing that journey on his own these days? Every day?) The train was the bit I enjoyed most. A great metallic monster huffing and puffing into the station, hissing and belching steam and smoke! And the wheels struggling to gain purchase on the rails as power was applied. Wonderful! And on the journey, I'd stick my head out of the window and imbibe the smell of the coal burning, and get smuts in my eyes from the belching behemoth that was pulling us. Nostalgia writ large!

 

Diesel locomotives and electric trains just don't cut it.

 

The golden age of steam!

 

Ha! Showing my age here! :)