Thailand approves $393-mln purchase of Chinese submarines

[jabis]

Just now, MeHere said:

393 million sounds pretty damn cheap for 3 submarines... they must be made in china 555

That was USD 393M ...

[MeHere]

Just now, jabis said:

That was USD 393M ...

yes... very cheap. They must be toy subs

[jabis]

3 minutes ago, MeHere said:

yes... very cheap. They must be toy subs

Yes and a single sub :D

[neeray]

They should have waited.  There may be some slightly used subs coming available very soon, very cheap from North Korea.  Still probably Chinese made but could have bought a few extra to part out.

Maybe a 5 for 3 deal.  There could have been a SUBstantial savings involved. 

 

[Godang]

12 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Follow the money.  exactly where will this or other subs be based?  Gulf of Thailand?  West coast of Thailand?  In what port(s)?  What facilities will it need?  Who will provide the support logistics, the food service contract, the onboard foo supplies, etc.

The ones who give the biggest brown envelope. Will get those.

[Thomasbangkok]

The details are much broader than just the submarines according to the Thai news papers.  The Thai news says longer term military rule, subs , weapons factory and China aircraft carrier to be based in Thailand w/China agreement.  Does this mean China troops as it is a weapons factory and China Air force as well?  This is a strategic move given the trade routes?  Hum?  What does it mean to Expats?

 

The subs and all are part of a give to get for the price?

 

<<<< Link to Bangkok Post removed as per forum rule >>>>

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30313203 - Country needs long-term military supervision

 

 

 - 

Edited April 25, 2017 by metisdead
26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan

[Thomasbangkok]

1 minute ago, sawadee1947 said:

 

Not about the need but about the overall direction and impact of business, trade, expats and alliances.  Does this mean anything as I wonder.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Thomasbangkok

[sawadee1947]

well, I think it's a good deal........................for the Chinese. They can sell their outdated rubbish and found some outdated Generals without brain to buy. So it's a win-win situation. Depends on the side of view......

[Thomasbangkok]

These varient classes of Subs and are new and capable of modifications.  Again, I am not saying they do not need them.  Just looking at all the activity and signals.  

[Thomasbangkok]

1 minute ago, sawadee1947 said:

well, I think it's a good deal........................for the Chinese. They can sell their outdated rubbish and found some outdated Generals without brain to buy. So it's a win-win situation. Depends on the side of view......

Again, I looking at the total situation.

[wabothai]

the Chinese underhanded are expanding their sub fleet and have the Thais paying for it.

Long term planning.

[CantSpell]

19 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Haven't had or needed one for 60 years, but now it is needed. Utterly ridiculous. The sooner these retards are out of power the better.

If I am not mistaken, that purchase was not allowed by both the late King AND the government under Yingluck....

 

That says something...

Now we do <deleted> we want...

[Retiredandhappyhere]

Navy spokesman Admiral Jumpol Loompikanon said the Thai navy owned four Japanese submarines nearly 60 years ago, so new submarines were necessary to protect the country's maritime interests.

 

So, is he admitting that the country's maritime interests have been unprotected for the last 60 years?  If so, somone at the top should be due for an inactive post and he could spend a major part of it in the first submarine, which will no doubt shorty be moored (or sunk) alongside the aircraft carrier as a further tourist attraction.  After all, what's 36 billion baht between friends, particularly as the economy is in such good shape?

[pentap]

Who would want to attack Thailand and for what?

Rice?
Rubber?

Children, poor defenceless soles, murdered by their demented fathers.

Today, yet another sickeningly sad report of a father hanging his 11 month old daughter and then hanging himself!! Poor child. Made my cry thinking of that poor child's last moments. Defenceless. Sickening!

Many more sickening reports keep popping up on a daily basis.

Domestic social issues should be the priority, instead of acting as if this were a world power, running on a shoe-string budget.

As Thais say, "UP TO THEM" if they buy the subs but are they really necessary?



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Enoon]

10 hours ago, Ahab said:

I agree Thailand doesn't need them, but the Yuan is not an "old Chinese unit" it is a modern, quiet, stealthy diesel submarine. The price with spare parts, training facilities, etc. will likely double or triple the price quoted in the article.

 

And contrary to popular, misinformed, belief on TVF they will be "new build":

 

"The China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC) will be the likely main contractor for the Thailand-bound submarine, which will take six years to build."

 

 

[Enoon]

9 hours ago, jabis said:

They will build the subs new - no need to cheapskate, being the manufacturing might of the world :)

 

The model though is ancient, so it's like polishing a turd, and stripping it off of everything valuable, then shipping it off with a hefty price tag - so same same but different x) Though I guess if the previous govt would have followed thru with the German subs, the outcry would've toppled the - at the time - govt, since all the expenditure for the naval base upgrades etc was seen as a waste alltogether.

 

It only went into service in 2006 so it cannot be described as ancient, although it is a generation behind current western subs.

 

But given the nature of it's intended deployment area and projected tactical usage...blah, blah, blah....and so on.

 

Essay: Inside the Design of China's Yuan-class Submarine - USNI News

 

 

 

[gk10002000]

On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 0:19 PM, bangrak said:

Allow it to rust for ten years more... And hope they don't forget to first remove all the poisonous stuff the Chinese will have built their junk with...

having worked at Electric Boat in Groton CT, and been on many classes of subs and having toured some older subs in museums like a Russian widow maker, mentioning poisonous stuff is a good point.  The amount of asbestos on the 1970s boats was amazing.  And most subs have tons, and I mean tons of lead as ballast and also as radiation shielding.  I was surprised even on modern US Subs how many lead bricks are stacked around the inner hull walls.  Then I did the calculations, and the subs really do displace a lot of water and you really do need the weight to keep the darn things down.  I am sure there is other exotic stuff in there also, battery materials, for example

[jabis]

3 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

It only went into service in 2006 so it cannot be described as ancient, although it is a generation behind current western subs.

 

But given the nature of it's intended deployment area and projected tactical usage...blah, blah, blah....and so on.

 

Essay: Inside the Design of China's Yuan-class Submarine - USNI News

 

 

 

By ancient I was indeed referring to the technology of the sub, as you so eloquently put a generation behind western counterparts, but also the fact that it is stripped down of every advanced tech the original 039-series had before the export model was introduced, including the noice reductors, outer shell optimizations for running silent and reducing radar signature, as well a plethora of weapons systems. Thanks for that link, most interesting read in a while.

 

6 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

having worked at Electric Boat in Groton CT, and been on many classes of subs and having toured some older subs in museums like a Russian widow maker, mentioning poisonous stuff is a good point.  The amount of asbestos on the 1970s boats was amazing.  And most subs have tons, and I mean tons of lead as ballast and also as radiation shielding.  I was surprised even on modern US Subs how many lead bricks are stacked around the inner hull walls.  Then I did the calculations, and the subs really do displace a lot of water and you really do need the weight to keep the darn things down.  I am sure there is other exotic stuff in there also, battery materials, for example

To add to that; Luckily S26T is not a nuclear powered one 

[anotheruser]

It would take only one submarine to patrol the entrance to the gulf of Thailand. I am assuming that in order to justify 3 submarines the Thai authorities want to sink their submarines further afield.

[gk10002000]

As others have posted, this really is a ridiculous thing(s) to buy.  Any of the relatively cheap shore patrol boats would be more useful.  Any of the several commercially available reconnaissance aircraft would be more useful.  Heck, even one global hawk aircraft could fly up and down each coast on 24 hour missions.  And they are cheaper and easier to use and maintain than submarines.

[jerojero]

Wonderful! Keep spending the billions on military. And short funding to hospitals and the poor. Excellent PM, excellent.

[lamyai3]

Aside from the huge rake offs involved, a major reason for buying the subs was given last year - "We want other countries to be in awe of us..."

This unfortunately is all too true, for all the wrong reasons. 

[Happyman58]

3 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Aside from the huge rake offs involved, a major reason for buying the subs was given last year - "We want other countries to be in awe of us..."

This unfortunately is all too true, for all the wrong reasons. 

Save face you think

[Ahab]

14 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

And contrary to popular, misinformed, belief on TVF they will be "new build":

 

"The China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC) will be the likely main contractor for the Thailand-bound submarine, which will take six years to build."

 

 

Even if they were not "new" the oldest Yuan class was commissioned in 2006 making the oldest one only 11 years old. Although the price is a lot of money that could be used (maybe) productivity elsewhere it really isn't that bad of a deal for a frontline, state of the art, quiet, diesel submarine. A German Type 209 (series) might have been a better choice, technology wise, but they have had issues operating in very warm water (i.e. Gulf of Thailand).

[Ahab]

On 4/25/2017 at 9:39 AM, NCC1701A said:

"OK men, listen up. Welcome to Submarine Detection 101. Today we will play back a recording of the noisiest and easiest submarine to track, the Thai navy's Chinese made subs."

It is obvious from your post that you have zero knowledge of the acoustic signature of a Yuan class SSK. They can be very quiet and extremely difficult to detect (let alone track) and are among the quietest diesel submarines on the planet when operating on the battery or AIP, and not much noisier when running their diesels (thank you Germany for the MTU diesel technology).

[lamyai3]

3 hours ago, Happyman58 said:

Save face you think

Quite the opposite, saving face would have been not proceeding. It's chest thumping of the worst kind. 

[electric]

Perhaps the subs could be purchased bit by bit in small boxes online from Alibaba, delivered free to Malaysia, where they could be re-assembled, then imported complete to BKK ..... thus avoiding any Thai Customs Duty problems ?

 

The savings could be enormous. Don't want another bus fiasco.

 

The Pattaya-Hua Hin ferry is subject to rough seas operational problems. Perfect situation for an idle submarine looking to justify it's existence ? Would be a huge tourist attraction. Ride the sub for 3 hours from Pats to HH. I'd pay 1000 baht for that.

 

Finally, I hope the operating booklet for the subs is better translated than the usual crap Chinese  "how to" instructions.

 

 

[lvr181]

"Navy spokesman Admiral Jumpol Loompikanon said the Thai navy owned four Japanese submarines nearly 60 years ago, so new submarines were necessary to protect the country's maritime interests."

 

And what realistic military threats were there during the past 60 years, when they did not have submarines and need one now?   NONE!

 

Will having a new submarine solve the problems of southern Thailand and no more Thais will be killed or injured?   NO!

 

As others have said, 36 billion baht would have been better spent on education and hospitals.Shame on the militarists for wasting taxpayers money on such flippant thinking! 

[digger70]

Are they the ones that Dive down and stay Down?  ((:

[jabis]

9 hours ago, Ahab said:

Even if they were not "new" the oldest Yuan class was commissioned in 2006 making the oldest one only 11 years old. Although the price is a lot of money that could be used (maybe) productivity elsewhere it really isn't that bad of a deal for a frontline, state of the art, quiet, diesel submarine. A German Type 209 (series) might have been a better choice, technology wise, but they have had issues operating in very warm water (i.e. Gulf of Thailand).

"Export variant: S20[edit]
At IDEX-2013, China revealed a scaled-down version of Type 039A submarine designated as S20, specially intended for export. The main difference between S20 and Type 039A is that the AIP system on the original Type 039A is deleted, but can be available and easily integrated due to modular design of S20, if potential customers choose to purchase AIP systems separately. Due to its modular design, a variety of sensors and weapons can also be easily adopted up on customers' requests.[10] Specifications of S20:[11]"

 

Extra moolah and you get AIP, S26T(Thailand variant) has not been announced to be purchased with it anywhere, so fitted with regular diesel engines and common sensor and weaponry systems it's just another rustbucket, so hardly state of the art...

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_039A_submarine