Thai police to review ways to take down online content after Facebook killing

[webfact]

Thai police to review ways to take down online content after Facebook killing

By Amy Sawitta Lefevre and Panarat Thepgumpanat

 

Jiranuch Trirat, mother of 11-month-old daughter who was killed by her father who broadcast the murder on Facebook, stands next to a picture of her daughter at a temple in Phuket, Thailand April 25, 2017. REUTERS/Sooppharoek Teepapan

 

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Police in Thailand on Wednesday said they would discuss how to speed up taking down "inappropriate online content" after a man broadcast himself killing his 11-month-old daughter in a live video on Facebook.

 

Two videos, which were available for nearly 24 hours before they were taken down, show Wuttisan Wongtalay hanging his daughter from a building on the southern Thai island of Phuket on Monday before he turned off the camera and killed himself.

 

"In the future we will discuss inappropriate online content, whether on Facebook or YouTube or Instagram, and how we can speed up taking this content down," deputy national police spokesman Kissana Phatanacharoen told reporters.

 

It was not immediately clear how authorities plan to speed things up.

 

Police had asked the Ministry of Digital Economy to contact Facebook about removing the videos. The ministry in turn contacted Facebook on Tuesday and the videos were taken down at around 5 p.m. in Bangkok that day, nearly a day after they had been uploaded.

 

The videos, which drew nearly half a million views before they were taken down, sparked outrage among netizens and prompted questions about how Facebook's reporting system works and how violent content can be flagged faster.

 

The case is the latest in a string of violent crimes that have plagued Facebook despite making up a small percentage of videos. On Tuesday a Swedish court jailed three men for the rape of a woman that was broadcast live on Facebook.

 

Last week, Facebook said it was reviewing how it monitored violent footage and other objectionable material after a posting of the fatal shooting of a man in Cleveland, Ohio was visible for two hours before being taken down.

 

WHAT TOOK SO LONG?

 

Some are asking what took authorities in Thailand so long to act.

 

Kissana blamed the delay partly on the time difference between the United States, where Facebook is headquartered, and Thailand.

 

"We did the best we could but there's the time difference issue because Facebook is headquartered in San Francisco," Kissana said, without elaborating.

 

He said Thai police currently have two ways of being alerted about disturbing content: monitoring by a dedicated technology crime suppression division or a tip-off from the public using police hotlines.

 

A cousin of the baby’s mother told Reuters the family was too traumatised to think about removing the video from Facebook.

 

“We didn’t think about removing the video because all we wanted to do at the time was find them [the father and baby] first,” said Suksan Buachanit, 29.

 

Thailand's digital ministry said it would review how it handles similar cases in the future.

 

"We will take this as a lesson and come up with a solution ... but this is not something we can do immediately," ministry spokesman Somsak Khaosuwan told Reuters.

 

Police said the killing was the first in Thailand known to have been broadcast on Facebook. They said the crime was driven by jealousy because Wuttisan was afraid his wife would leave him for another man.

 

Thailand's health ministry said it records on average 1-2 suicide videos a month that are posted to social media, including YouTube and Facebook.

 

(Writing by Amy Sawitta Lefevre; Additional reporting by Patpicha Tanakasempipat in PHUKET; Editing by Bill Tarrant)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-04-26

[Prbkk]

The family's point is well-made: their focus was on trying to prevent this hideousness and then on finding the victim rather than on deletion of the clip. For the rest of us, with lesser but still legitimate interest, the question becomes how to stop these psychos from using the readily available/accessible platform to be so repulsive. Facebook is a curse in many ways but it must be very difficult to limit these horror stories now that everyone seems to have an account ( 1 billion users according to someone on another thread). 

 

[kingkenny]

It would be interesting to know what he saw in her phone. As the baby was so young it could be he discovered he is not the father and also discovered she had another guy for some time. Maybe he wasn't killing his own daughter in his mind.

 

Whatever the reasons none are justifiable. Poor little mite. 

[rkidlad]

I hope authorities don't use this as a ruse to censoring their version of inappropriate content. We can't always stop humans killing other humans, but we can hopefully stop it from being broadcast live again. 

 

Facebook didn't kill this child. The child's evil father did. Let this be about that more than anything else. 

[Eligius]

I agree with you, Rkidlad (above): I am sure this tragedy will be used by the 'government' for more draconian censorship and suppression of free speech on social media. They never miss an opportunity to clamp down on liberty, more and more. Any excuse (real or concocted) will be used ...

[starky]

Hang on what's this got to do with Thai police and fuckin time differences. What Facebook isn't a 24 hour operation? Excuse me if I'm wrong but Facebook is one of the largest online sites in the world and what there's no regulation of their own content? So if I post something disgusting Facebook does nothing until someone tips them off? That's a fuckin joke and Facebook should be held accountable for everything posted on their shit website and should be fined for leaving this horrific shit on the Web for 24 hours. Or is the whole internet held unaccountable because stuff was posted by some else. Disgusting. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by starky

[starky]

3 minutes ago, Eligius said:

I agree with you, Rkidlad (above): I am sure this tragedy will be used by the 'government' for more draconian censorship and suppression of free speech on social media. They never miss an opportunity to clamp down on liberty, more and more. Any excuse (real or concocted) will be used ...

I tell ya what mate if censorship stops ghouls and other assorted <deleted> from being able to watch babies being hanged on Facebook then I'm all for it. Or is watching babies being hanged a liberty we should all enjoy?

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Thai police to review ways to take down online content after Facebook killing

Educate the ghouls who watch these foul videos to report them rather than share them with their friends.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Bluespunk

[JAG]

12 minutes ago, starky said:

Hang on what's this got to do with Thai police and fuckin time differences. What Facebook isn't a 24 hour operation? Excuse me if I'm wrong but Facebook is one of the largest online sites in the world and what there's no regulation of their own content? So if I post something disgusting Facebook does nothing until someone tips them off? That's a fuckin joke and Facebook should be held accountable for everything posted on their shit website and should be fined for leaving this horrific shit on the Web for 24 hours. Or is the whole internet held unaccountable because stuff was posted by some else. Disgusting. 

I don't think anyone is suggesting for a moment that this video and it's ilk should not be removed from Facebook, and Facebook clearly need a prompter mechanism for doing so.

 

There are good reasons, given this regimes open hostility to criticism and any channel for comment by its subjects to suspect that they will use this as an excuse to try and control all content on Facebook, and other social medias.

[starky]

3 minutes ago, JAG said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting for a moment that this video and it's ilk should not be removed from Facebook, and Facebook clearly need a prompter mechanism for doing so.

 

There are good reasons, given this regimes open hostility to criticism and any channel for comment by its subjects to suspect that they will use this as an excuse to try and control all content on Facebook, and other social medias.

Yeah maybe an internet company with a net worth of 340 billion US should maybe have a prompter mechanism and maybe there should be some accountability for the crap they allow to be posted on their shit website. It's not really about this regime is it? Your point is well taken but IMO not really at the heart of the issue

[Bluespunk]

9 minutes ago, JAG said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting for a moment that this video and it's ilk should not be removed from Facebook, and Facebook clearly need a prompter mechanism for doing so.

 

There are good reasons, given this regimes open hostility to criticism and any channel for comment by its subjects to suspect that they will use this as an excuse to try and control all content on Facebook, and other social medias.

Yep, how would we know what people have had for breakfast or that they can afford a ridiculous starbucks concoction if fb is banned?

 

Quit it a long time ago.

 

Have never regretted it.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Bluespunk

[rkidlad]

Facebook gives a platform that allows people to stream their videos live or pre-recorded. Facebook can't actually be held legally responsible for always monitoring all content and taking it down within a reasonable timeframe. They have robots that can monitor, but they're robots. They don't always know what's what. It is then up to the general public to report indecent material to have it taken down. There is simply too much stuff to monitor. I'm not saying this is right or wrong - I'm simply telling it as it is. God knows how many people watched this clip and didn't report it. Maybe they thought it was fake or maybe they simply didn't care. I don't know. It took the BBC to eventually report it and have it taken down. 

 

I worry that blame will be pointed in all the wrong directions. People the world over will start looking for excuses as to why people do horrible things instead of facing up to the reality. In a scarily proud country like Thailand, I worry many people will merely put the blame on FB to save from embarrassment and shame that one of their own could do this to a baby. This evil father did this all of his own volition. Don't take any of the blame away from him. Also, don't trivialise from the core root of the problem - domestic abuse and misplaced anger. Domestic abuse is a big problem here that seems to be underplayed and dismissed as "mind your own business". Abusive fathers/husbands and mothers/wives coming from abusive childhoods themselves. The toxic cycle perpetuates. Education is always the key. It will never stop bad things completely, but it will lessen the incidents. (Yes, domestic abuse is a worldwide problem)

 

 

Edited April 26, 2017 by rkidlad

[dcnx]

Just block it. It just may get a few idiots off their phone while they are driving.

[simon43]

Usually I'm against censorship.

 

But if the police/Thai government want to block Facebook (via the international internet gateways) when they are alerted to such a disturbing video as this one, then I'm all for this.

 

If Facebook won't take down a video for 24 hours, then I'm sure the Thai government can do this at the flick of a switch.

 

Facebook can't actually be held legally responsible for always monitoring all content and taking it down within a reasonable timeframe.

 

Yes they can!  Radio stations and TV stations are responsible for not allowing inappropriate content to be aired 'live' - they often use a short time delay function so that the engineer can cut the broadcast if something unsuitable is said or viewed.

 

Text-chat services also have to have live monitoring, to ensure that content is within the legal regulations of that service (I know - I used to run textchat services on satellite TV).

 

Facebook Live AND other such live services should only be allowed to those individuals or organisations who have been vetted, and who present a very low risk of airing inappropriate material.

 

If Facebook will not monitor their content in real-time, or if it is physically impossible to monitor it, then cut it off until technology advances to a stage where they can monitor in real-time.

 

Why should Facebook Live be above the regulations that apply to other broadcasters?

Edited April 26, 2017 by simon43

[wxpwzrd]

This just smells of a path to -- Ugh, Single Gateway...

[Sphere]

That article mentions Facebook at least 15 times.....perhaps direct some outrage to that insecure man who committed this crime. I'm guessing he would've done it anyway....with our without Facebook. 

[rkidlad]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

Usually I'm against censorship.

 

But if the police/Thai government want to block Facebook (via the international internet gateways) when they are alerted to such a disturbing video as this one, then I'm all for this.

 

If Facebook won't take down a video for 24 hours, then I'm sure the Thai government can do this at the flick of a switch.

 

 

 

 

Yes they can!  Radio stations and TV stations are responsible for not allowing inappropriate content to be aired 'live' - they often use a short time delay function so that the engineer can cut the broadcast if something unsuitable is said or viewed.

 

Text-chat services also have to have live monitoring, to ensure that content is within the legal regulations of that service (I know - I used to run textchat services on satellite TV).

 

Facebook Live AND other such live services should only be allowed to those individuals or organisations who have been vetted, and who present a very low risk of airing inappropriate material.

 

If Facebook will not monitor their content in real-time, or if it is physically impossible to monitor it, then cut it off until technology advances to a stage where they can monitor in real-time.

 

Why should Facebook Live be above the regulations that apply to other broadcasters?

In a very simple way that I explained before. Facebook provide the platform but do not upload the content. The general public upload the content. 

 

Facebook isn't stupid and wouldn't allow themselves to be legally responsible for what others post. I'm sure it's all in the small print. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by rkidlad

[simon43]

Facebook isn't stupid and wouldn't allow themselves to be legally responsible for what others post. I'm sure it's all in the small print. 

 

You cannot just make up a rule and declare yourself not responsible.

 

In many (most?) countries, radio and TV stations are legally responsible for any inappropriate content that is aired.  If they interview a nazi on live TV and he starts to use the worse form of swear words etc, the TV or radio station will be fined.

 

If someone sends an inappropriate SMS text message, they can be fined (I know, because I was fined 500 GBP yonks ago by the UK SMS regulator for using foul language!).

 

I could create a mobile video platform similar to Youtube, and then absolve myself from any responsibility about the content that people upload - but I cannot absolve myself from the Law - it doesn't (or shouldn't) work that way.

 

If Facebook will not take action to real-time monitor Facebook Live, then that function of Facebook should be restricted (as a techie, I know that is it easy to block Facebook Live, whilst still allowing all the other functionality of Facebook).

[rkidlad]

Okay, I just found a clip on it for you. The pertinent information is at about 1:43 seconds. Again, I don't make the rules. Was simply relaying them. 

 

Go and argue with this lady. 

 

 

 

[overherebc]

Not a reply to any other poster, just my thoughts.

I was thinking if facebook went off line tomorrow perhaps it might get people talking to each other again. Obvoiusly it would start with talking about no facebook but they would at least here another persons voice. Who knows where that might lead.

[alocacoc]

Then, why torrent  and other file-sharing sites are illegal? Facebook would gain sympathy from me if they decide to take down that live feature till they found a way to prevent such things. But as always, money speaks...

[Chip Allen]

Thainess responds to the threat of social media. Great smokescreen for accomplishing the same thing as the "single gateway". A masterstroke for enemies of free expression. Create linkage and rule the roost.

[overherebc]

41 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Not a reply to any other poster, just my thoughts.

I was thinking if facebook went off line tomorrow perhaps it might get people talking to each other again. Obvoiusly it would start with talking about no facebook but they would at least here another persons voice. Who knows where that might lead.

Next time I'll get 'hear' right. I do the same with there/their.

 

???

[boomerangutang]

Thailand's self-appointed head honchos will grab at any excuse to further tighten the screws of censorship.  It's a ratchet affect.  

 

As for what happened:  yes, there is severe mental sickness among some people.  There are ways to try and lessen their destructive actions.  That should be the topic, not FB.

 

 

[ladada]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

Not a reply to any other poster, just my thoughts.

I was thinking if facebook went off line tomorrow perhaps it might get people talking to each other again. Obvoiusly it would start with talking about no facebook but they would at least here another persons voice. Who knows where that might lead.

You'd have to take out candy crush and line TV first..  

[chrisinth]

14 hours ago, dcnx said:

Just block it. It just may get a few idiots off their phone while they are driving.

And, as per the OP title about ways to take down online content, that is the only way that Thai police will be able to do it. Facebook will not give them access to do it in any legal way.

 

A poster summed FB up for me in another thread yesterday by comparing FB to a fruit. It starts off really good but over time the rot sets in and has the capability of spreading disease as it further decays.

 

That said, I do have a certain sympathy for FB and what sort of monitoring they can employ to stop the likes of this happening again. I don't know actual numbers, but would expect millions of clips being shared everyday albeit not all on live feeds, but how do you monitor, essentially data files, to a degree that it would give the viewer the live view experience? Yes, it is obviously a money spinner for FB, but it was a demand from the social media to have the service there in the first place.

 

Can't have your cake and eat it at the same time..................

 

Edit: For clarity, I do not use FB.

Edited April 27, 2017 by chrisinth

[Mickmouse1]

FB is on 24/7.They have taken off a picture I posted within few hours and suspended my Account despite the picture was of my niece being awarded 1st prize ; Australia Toastmasters .?Absolute WA&£€#$

[Chip Allen]

14 minutes ago, Mickmouse1 said:

FB is on 24/7.They have taken off a picture I posted within few hours and suspended my Account despite the picture was of my niece being awarded 1st prize ; Australia Toastmasters .?Absolute WA&£€#$

This post makes no sense without context. Why would the picture be taken down? There is normally a reason given.

[Chris Lawrence]

So I can't watch this on Facebook but can still see the carnage on the six o'clock news of other murders, accidents, war, babies dead and carried in the parents arms. Its a tragedy what happened to this little girl, but such tragedies are played out daily and reported on. How do we stop the news, or how to we prevent these things happening? Harder to grab the bull by the horns, but placates the feelings of some. Doesn't even come near solving the problems.

[Basil B]

19 hours ago, Eligius said:

I agree with you, Rkidlad (above): I am sure this tragedy will be used by the 'government' for more draconian censorship and suppression of free speech on social media. They never miss an opportunity to clamp down on liberty, more and more. Any excuse (real or concocted) will be used ...

This made the news in the UK and Facebook refused to comment...

 

Though an expert did say Facebook could do more to moderate anything going viral by detecting unusual high views and shares and getting moderators to view more quickly.

 

As pointed out I also think the BIB and Thai Government may have other reasons to want to block FB.