Merkel warns Britons - don't delude yourself over Brexit

[Aforek]

10 hours ago, nontabury said:

Well there's one thing for certain, the citizens of the 27 so called Union states are not in unison in support Of the E.U.. Last week for example, over 41% of the French electorate,voted for candidates who are anti the EU. The same can be said of the Italians,Austrians,Swedish and Dutch.Even in German  there is a growing discontent with this undemocratic disorganization.

 

 

 

Funny how people see only one side of the coin; first, you figures show that there is stil a majority of EU who want to stay in EU ( Austria, Netherlands, France, soon Germany ) and you forget your own country ; 48 % of people didn't want Brexit, and second the majority of Ireland and Scotland  wanted to stay in EU ; you are what we call a subjective man ; as we say in French, "look in front of  your  door first " 

[Grouse]

24 minutes ago, vogie said:

As a nazi and ss member Porsche who used slave labour for his production of the tanks etc that were used to kill our allied troops, I suggest he was maybe lucky he did not hang at Nurenberg. The Fiat 500 was a great little car, especially going down hills, but I know people that have owned them, and the passengers had to get out going up hill.

This is getting completely off topic

 

BUT at the end of the war, many senior Wehrmacht and even SS were used by us and the Americans to help hold back the Soviet tide. It really is worth reading the history to understand the pragmatism. A J P Taylor is always a good place to start!

[Guest]

It really seems like some of the brexiters are hanging to WWII memories, while they were toddlers. That was 70 years ago.

 

One of the ideas for EU is to prevent war to happen again. So far EU has been successful with that single most important task. We haven't have a war inside EU for the past 70 years.

 

 

 

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, vogie said:

As a nazi and ss member Porsche who used slave labour for his production of the tanks etc that were used to kill our allied troops, I suggest he was maybe lucky he did not hang at Nurenberg. The Fiat 500 was a great little car, especially going down hills, but I know people that have owned them, and the passengers had to get out going up hill.

Stop and read what this little Russian troll, trying to be a Brit is saying. Stop, read and think.

He simply wishes to agitate people against each others.

 

[citybiker]

It's been damn good for the UK.
 
Most issues which give cause for complaint are Westminster issues, not Brussels.

Damn good?

Rather biased unbalanced viewpoint Grouse?

Rather interesting that it's primarily the SNP that always complains about Westminster despite being given increased devolution to Scotland.

Most complaints are due to Brussel's-Westminster over-ruling/interference, however I suppose the SNP would prefer to be ruled by Brussel's rather than Westminster.


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[vogie]

6 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Stop and read what this little Russian troll, trying to be a Brit is saying. Stop, read and think.

He simply wishes to agitate people against each others.

 

I would welcome the retraction of this stupid post, but no difference to your others I suppose!

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, citybiker said:

 

Damn good?

Rather biased unbalanced viewpoint Grouse?

Rather interesting that it's primarily the SNP that always complains about Westminster despite being given increased devolution to Scotland.

Most complaints are due to Brussel's-Westminster over-ruling/interference, however I suppose the SNP would prefer to be ruled by Brussel's rather than Westminster.


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Well, I think most opinions are biased by definition!

 

I was asked not so long ago to say what I thought was good about the EU. I posted an initial list of 42 points which elicited a few comments from L G only. I offered to post a list of my next 50 points but no takers! 

 

Tell you what, why not provide us a list of your top 20 points where "Brussels " interference has negatively affected us? 

 

Look, nobody is saying the EU is perfect. Far from it. Strasbourg / Brussels is bonkers for example. But overall, the UK has done well. If it ain't broke don't fix it ( to coin an awful Americanism)

 

Van you really not see how the Con Party shafts the middle class?

[nontabury]

13 minutes ago, oilinki said:

It really seems like some of the brexiters are hanging to WWII memories, while they were toddlers. That was 70 years ago.

 

One of the ideas for EU is to prevent war to happen again. So far EU has been successful with that single most important task. We haven't have a war inside EU for the past 70 years.

 

 

 

A large part of the credit for that,must surely be NATO. As regards anti-German sentiment, I've heard more of that in the last two years,especially from Greeks and Poles. Why? Well it's all connected to the problems caused by the E.U. And how many people throughout the E.U think that Germany is too dominating, especially Angela Merkal. Is this critism justified,well it would seem more and more people think so.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

A large part of the credit for that,must surely be NATO. As regards anti-German sentiment, I've heard more of that in the last two years,especially from Greeks and Poles. Why? Well it's all connected to the problems caused by the E.U. And how many people throughout the E.U think that Germany is too dominating, especially Angela Merkal. Is this critism justified,well it would seem more and more people think so.

Some 20-30 years ago Germans were not welcome to Greece, nor Northern Finland.

That time has passed a long time ago. We no longer hold against the germans, what their great grandfathers and mothers did. Why should we?

 

[citybiker]

Well, I think most opinions are biased by definition!

 

I was asked not so long ago to say what I thought was good about the EU. I posted an initial list of 42 points which elicited a few comments from L G only. I offered to post a list of my next 50 points but no takers! 

 

Tell you what, why not provide us a list of your top 20 points where "Brussels " interference has negatively affected us? 

 

Look, nobody is saying the EU is perfect. Far from it. Strasbourg / Brussels is bonkers for example. But overall, the UK has done well. If it ain't broke don't fix it ( to coin an awful Americanism)

 

Van you really not see how the Con Party shafts the middle class?

 

I do like & admire your bonkers summary, and yes like Westminster isn't perfect either.

 

However, we respectfully clearly disagree that the EU does require fixing yet the EU have no intention of badly needed self reform but prefer diplomatic hot air over action.

 

 

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[ilostmypassword]

33 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Some 20-30 years ago Germans were not welcome to Greece, nor Northern Finland.

That time has passed a long time ago. We no longer hold against the germans, what their great grandfathers and mothers did. Why should we?

 

Because it allows us to enjoy an unjustified sense of moral superiority.

[teddog]

29 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Some 20-30 years ago Germans were not welcome to Greece, nor Northern Finland.

That time has passed a long time ago. We no longer hold against the germans, what their great grandfathers and mothers did. Why should we?

 

 

How many times are you posting on here? preaching to the converted, Brexit has happened, May in all probability just walk away from discussion, and welcome to that,fact is it all should be all wrapped up in a few weeks after election,all done and dusted ,nothing to report,nothing to add

[Grouse]

13 minutes ago, citybiker said:

 

I do like & admire your bonkers summary, and yes like Westminster isn't perfect either.

 

However, we respectfully clearly disagree that the EU does require fixing yet the EU have no intention of badly needed self reform but prefer diplomatic hot air over action.

 

 

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I agree that the EU does indeed require serious and urgent reform. However IMHO such reform is possible and achievable....

[nontabury]

39 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Some 20-30 years ago Germans were not welcome to Greece, nor Northern Finland.

That time has passed a long time ago. We no longer hold against the germans, what their great grandfathers and mothers did. Why should we?

 

I completely agree. Unfortunately the reality is, that it's brought up old wounds. That possibly would not have come to the forefront again,if it was not for the perceived greavancies caused by some of the dictatorial policies of both the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels and Angela Merkals open door policy.

 

 

[citybiker]

I agree that the EU does indeed require serious and urgent reform. However IMHO such reform is possible and achievable....

Well there's certainly no urgent signs of tangible reforms are there?


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[ilostmypassword]

22 hours ago, oilinki said:

When people say Germany is benefiting for low Euro value, here are the average salaries across the EU countries. Germany is quite up there.

 

Suorce: https://www.reinisfischer.com/average-salary-european-union-2016

 

And if there were no such a thing as Euros where would German salaries be? A lot higher in relation to most other European currencies.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, teddog said:

How many times are you posting on here? preaching to the converted, Brexit has happened, May in all probability just walk away from discussion, and welcome to that,fact is it all should be all wrapped up in a few weeks after election,all done and dusted ,nothing to report,nothing to add

Our little Russian spies, who try to push the talking point to their direction.

Our little folks.

 

[12DrinkMore]

10 hours ago, Thongkorn said:

When are people going to get IT. It's not about Economics. It's about unelected men with no recourse to them. Making Decisions for 500 million people in secret. That's Dictatorship. Britain fought two world wars for freedom. That's what it's about. Nothing to do with money or Economlcs.

 

Please could explain exactly what you are referring to?

 

There are a couple of councils comprising members of each of the nations in the European community. The members are nominated by the respective democratically elected governments. The whole things is run professionally and with clear lines of responsibility.

 

There are also any number of UK government meetings held in "secret" and decisions are made that affect the 70,000,000,000 people in the UK. It is the only way that these things can be done. Much of the efficient administration of the country is performed by the unelected civil servants that try to protect the country from the damage that the elected twits would otherwise wreak.

 

Who do you think is holding Trump in reigns? He'll spout some nonsense and then in a few hours or days have to retract it. You can thank the professional unelected adminstration for that.

 

One issue does seem to be the inability to realise that multilateral agreements are part of the process of living with others. If the UK wants to try and make unilateral decisions, then OK, but you cannot expect others to agree to them. After Brexit there will still be bilateral and mulitlateral decisions with responsibilities accepted by both parties.

 

Oh, and democracy is not about holding the politicians responsible, it is all about putting the blame and repercusions back on the electorate.

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

There are also any number of UK government meetings held in "secret" and decisions are made that affect the 70,000,000,000 people in the UK. It is the only way that these things can be done. Much of the efficient administration of the country is performed by the unelected civil servants that try to protect the country from the damage that the elected twits would otherwise wreak.

 

Who do you think is holding Trump in reigns? He'll spout some nonsense and then in a few hours or days have to retract it. You can thank the professional unelected adminstration for that.

 

It always giggles me , when people use numbers like 70.000.000 (oh sorry, didn't you just use number of 10 times the human population? 70.000.000.000, 70 Billion!) 

Even without the 1000 fold lie, the use of big numbers is a funny way trying to impress others. 

[JAG]

I rather suspect Ferdinand Porsche would have successful regardless! Don't you?  People's car was a great idea? Just like the mini and Fiat 500?

Have a poke around in the history of the VA brand. Just who was responsible for salvaging the stillborn " people's car" project from the ruins in 1945, and getting the factory in Wolfenbuttal running again? The British, ironically a man wearing the same badge as "vogie - you are no engineer" uses as an avatar...

 

[JAG]

I agree that the EU does indeed require serious and urgent reform. However IMHO such reform is possible and achievable....

 

Well there's certainly no urgent signs of tangible reforms are there?

 

 

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The EUs virtual refusal to countenance any of the reforms suggested by the UK (David Cameron - hardly hostile to the organisation) was one of the significant factors in my decision, and I suspect many others decisions, to vote to leave. There is, realistically, no chance of reform whilst the organisation is run by a self selecting unelected and therefore essentially unaccountable cabal.

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, JAG said:

 

 

The EUs virtual refusal to countenance any of the reforms suggested by the UK (David Cameron - hardly hostile to the organisation) was one of the significant factors in my decision, and I suspect many others decisions, to vote to leave. There is, realistically, no chance of reform whilst the organisation is run by a self selecting unelected and therefore essentially unaccountable cabal.

 

EU need to do internal reforms.

 

Now we are hopefully be able to do those. 

[Guest]

17 years, 17 F'n years We EU people listened this guy from RT/UK.

 

17 years of offensive behavior inside EU. 17 years is enough.

Since then we have seen him visiting  Russia's  own spies at Ecuadorian Embassy.

If you think he works for UK, you are wrong. 

 

17 years

 

[citybiker]

 
The EUs virtual refusal to countenance any of the reforms suggested by the UK (David Cameron - hardly hostile to the organisation) was one of the significant factors in my decision, and I suspect many others decisions, to vote to leave. There is, realistically, no chance of reform whilst the organisation is run by a self selecting unelected and therefore essentially unaccountable cabal.
 

I fully concur.

It's more a political cartel.

And those on here are even more deluded if they expect the EU to self reform once the UK goes, the denial gravy train continues..


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[citybiker]

17 years, 17 F'n years We EU people listened this guy from RT/UK.
 
17 years of offensive behavior inside EU. 17 years is enough.

Since then we have seen him visiting  Russia's  own spies at Ecuadorian Embassy.

If you think he works for UK, you are wrong. 
 
17 years
 

Mr Nigel Farage deserves a 'knighthood' after the years of dealing with the EU, I've been watching the way the EU deals with unconventional challenges.

Offensive behaviour?

Oh dear me, please don't confuse his behaviour with 'harsh truth'.

It's something the EU can't handle, end of.






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[Guest]

4 minutes ago, citybiker said:

Mr Nigel Farage deserves a 'knighthood' after the years of dealing with the EU, I've been watching the way the EU deals with unconventional challenges.

Offensive behaviour?

Oh dear me, please don't confuse his behaviour with 'harsh truth'.

It's something the EU can't handle, end of.

 

This concludes in beautiful way, why we are happy that brexit was finally launched.

 

It was, after all, a cancer treatment for EU. It does hurt for an while, but later on life is better.

[citybiker]

This concludes in beautiful way, why we are happy that brexit was finally launched.
 
It was, after all, a cancer treatment for EU. It does hurt for an while, but later on life is better.

Please excuse me if I'll refrain from unnecessarily lowering the debate tone on the same level as some on here however Junker et al has also said they'd quite happily welcome the return of the UK someday, which is nice and diplomatically put.

It was a beautiful conclusion the British people (UK) voted to leave the fractious EU. It's a global world out there & many, although wary and cautious are relieved the opportunity is now freely an option.

I do not under no accounts mean no ill will towards our European neighbours, as neighbours we always continue to be. However, as for political ties, the long over-run marriage has run it's course.


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[Guest]

14 minutes ago, citybiker said:

 

Please excuse me if I'll refrain from unnecessarily lowering the debate tone on the same level as some on here however Junker et al has also said they'd quite happily welcome the return of the UK someday, which is nice and diplomatically put.

It was a beautiful conclusion the British people (UK) voted to leave the fractious EU. It's a global world out there & many, although wary and cautious are relieved the opportunity is now freely an option.

I do not under no accounts mean no ill will towards our European neighbours, as neighbours we always continue to be. However, as for political ties, the long over-run marriage has run it's course.


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So you do understand why EU wishes brexit to happen as soon as possible?

 

[citybiker]

So you do understand why EU wishes brexit to happen as soon as possible?

 

I understand that the EU wants to deter other members from taking a similar route. The EU also wants Brexit on 'they're term's' focusing on the EU's four pillars along with a ridiculously exacerbated exit bill.

None of the above is going to be resolved as soon as possible despite what many EU hardliners hope or want to achieve.


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[Guest]

3 minutes ago, citybiker said:

I understand that the EU wants to deter other members from taking a similar route. The EU also wants Brexit on 'they're term's' focusing on the EU's four pillars along with a ridiculously exacerbated exit bill.

None of the above is going to be resolved as soon as possible despite what many EU hardliners hope or want to achieve.


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EU wishes brexiters to stop whining "But, we are so important, can't you see we are leaving? Why don't you try to stop us leaving. We are so important!"

 

You are not.  Please just brexit. Get on with it. We have more important things to take care of.