May expects tough talks; EU alarmed at Brexit "illusions"

[Khun Han]

Excuse me, but Merkel holds no official role within the EU organisation. Why is Juncker briefing her ahead of the likes of Tusk, Tajani and Verhofstadt?

 

What a clown he is! Turns up with two big bundles of paper as a bit of theatre/stage props, and is astonished when PM May doesn't fall for his silliness!

[Thaiwine]

2 hours ago, johnnyonesock said:

Theresa May is in the pocket of the "globalists" and will not be negotiating on behalf of the British people..she will have her orders and number 1 is to continue to have open borders so that the dregs of Europe and the 3rd world can continue to destroy the British culture and way of life...divide and rule is what its all about

our best hope is to give her the strongest hand we can, if we get sold out then what will be will be, we remember and wait for the next election 2022

[Naam]

3 hours ago, johnnyonesock said:

Theresa May is in the pocket of the "globalists" and will not be negotiating on behalf of the British people..she will have her orders and number 1 is to continue to have open borders so that the dregs of Europe and the 3rd world can continue to destroy the British culture and way of life...divide and rule is what its all about

an unfortunate but realistic assumption. not to forget the aliens from the delta quadrant who are trying their best to destroy the foundations of the British Empire and undermine the queen of currencies the Pound.

[beautifulthailand99]

5 minutes ago, Naam said:

an unfortunate but realistic assumption. not to forget the aliens from the delta quadrant who are trying their best to destroy the foundations of the British Empire and undermine the queen of currencies the Pound.

as to the last point they're doing a great job....NOT.

[mommysboy]

13 hours ago, Naam said:

that is correct and that's why the belligerent talks from some EU politicians should be taken not only with a grain but with a pound of salt. the same applies to the Brexit side which has to achieve a certain success. and the latter is impossible without making concessions.

 

unfortunately we will experience for quite some time a disgusting situation. after all the actors on the stage are politicians. and we all know what to expect from politicians, don't we? a wise man once said "politicians are not born, they are excreted!"

 

Even excretia can be useful: politicians not!

 

It's an excellent couple of paragraphs, but quite what room for compromise there is I do not know.  Both sides have firm red lines that simply can not be crossed.

 

 

[Naam]

3 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

9 minutes ago, Naam said:

an unfortunate but realistic assumption. not to forget the aliens from the delta quadrant who are trying their best to destroy the foundations of the British Empire and undermine the queen of currencies the Pound.

as to the last point they're doing a great job....NOT.

you have to admit that their first step devaluating the Pound was a big success. a Pound used be worth 240 copper pennies. now it buys only 100. the aliens also catapulted the Guinea into oblivion. i wonder how the tailors and shoemakers in Savile Row cope. 

[rover99]

If they want to punish us we can punish them threaten to leave N A T O America will follow leave them in the shit.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[elgordo38]

11 hours ago, chang1 said:

The tizzy is because France is about to vote and could soon have a referendum that would mean the end of the EU who's negotiating plans are on 27 conflicting fag packets. 

Wow the big dawgs are really coming out against La Pen. 

[Nigel Garvie]

For a fuller reaction to the dinner read this:-

https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/04/30/the-uk-government-is-completely-deluded-about-brexit/#3bd089ef4f04

 

But for a brief flavour:-  "The UK’s eventual exit from the EU is looking more and more likely to be a train wreck. The Brexiteers in Prime Minister Theresa May’s administration are living in a fantasy world. And although May herself comes across as sensible and pragmatic, it now appears that she is as deluded as they are."

 

What happened to the people of Britain such that their brains deteriorated to the point where they actually believed people like Farage, Johnson, and Gove, let alone the Tory gutter press? What is this all about? It appears that some out of date warped nationalistic impulse has caught on like an ebola epidemic, and we have voted for a significantly contracted economy that will cause financial pain for everyone in the UK.  "It's the economy stupid", and if you still believe a glorious future awaits the Brexit UK keep dreaming.

 

Those you can make believe absurdities you can make commit atrocities. Voltaire

 

 

[nontabury]

21 hours ago, gamini said:

Why do the pro brexits posters on this forum continually disbelieve or rubbish any negative reports?. Many of them come from  neutral and reliable sources. Why don't they just accept the fact that they can't have everything. They wanted to leave the EU and they have to accept the consequences. Britain will be poorer off by 26%. That is a conservative figure.

And where did you get the 26% from? Presumably from the same source that predicted the plague, if the U.K  voted to exit this so -called Union.

Edited May 2, 2017 by nontabury

[ilostmypassword]

On 5/1/2017 at 7:47 AM, darksidedog said:

The UK stands a good chance of a reasonable deal. They only have one set of interests to worry about, their own. The other 27 countries are where the complications will set in. They will have multiple different agendas, some of which will be supported by the majority and some not. Any disunity will allow the UK to reap advantages.

Actually, it's exactly the opposite. You need 20 out of the 27 countries to approve a deal.  If you can't get that majority then it's a hard, hard brexit.  Disunity definitely does not work in favor of the UK. Moreover, the Irish PM's statement is understandable. Ireland desperately wants free trade and an open border with the North and the rest of the UK.  Their economies are so closely linked.

[dick dasterdly]

17 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

A fag packet ? That big ! More like vapours from the beery / fag smelling breath of Nigel Farige - pausing for thought before fiddling his EU expenses and texting his mistress. The con man has called - count your spoons.

 

This is a good article about the delusions held by our leaders stumbling hapless into a growing hurricane, oblivious to the dangers.

 

The UK’s eventual exit from the EU is looking more and more likely to be a train wreck. The Brexiteers in Prime Minister Theresa May’s administration are living in a fantasy world. And although May herself comes across as sensible and pragmatic, it now appears that she is as deluded as they are.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/04/30/the-uk-government-is-completely-deluded-about-brexit/#4c8abdb14f04

Similar article on the BBC website http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39770328

 

I particularly liked:-

"The article said that, after last week's dinner, Mr Juncker was shocked at Mrs May's suggestion that a deal on citizens' rights could be achieved so quickly.".

Odd, as after rejecting May's initial suggestion that it should be agreed immediately that EU citizens in the UK could stay/UK citizens in the EU could stay - the EU later said this should be agreed, implying (IIRC) that May was thwarting this agreement.  It appears that Juncker's latest concern on this issue is that May thinks an agreement should be reached quickly as its such an important issue - whereas Juncker thinks it should take months to reach an agreement.....

 

"Speaking to BBC Radio 4's World at One, he said people should take the article "with a pinch of salt" as it had reportedly been leaked by only one side of the talks."  (Jeremy Cliffe, the Berlin bureau chief for the Economist)

 

"The accounts of the dinner - which appear to have come from sources within the European Commission - have been seized upon by opposition parties in the UK."

 

"British perceptions of the meal have not been leaked in the same level of detail but there's no doubt the European briefings will be seen in the UK as provocative - and designed to stir up fears among British voters about what Brexit is going to mean."

 

Re. the last two quotes - quite.....

 

It sounds very much as if the EU is trying to stir up fears among British voters in the hope that a 'remain' party will be elected -rather than May who not only represents the party campaigning to support the leave vote, but is also pointing out that she doesn't accept their ridiculous 'negotiating list'!

[Khun Han]

32 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Similar article on the BBC website http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39770328

 

I particularly liked:-

"The article said that, after last week's dinner, Mr Juncker was shocked at Mrs May's suggestion that a deal on citizens' rights could be achieved so quickly.".

Odd, as after rejecting May's initial suggestion that it should be agreed immediately that EU citizens in the UK could stay/UK citizens in the EU could stay - the EU later said this should be agreed, implying (IIRC) that May was thwarting this agreement.  It appears that Juncker's latest concern on this issue is that May thinks an agreement should be reached quickly as its such an important issue - whereas Juncker thinks it should take months to reach an agreement.....

 

"Speaking to BBC Radio 4's World at One, he said people should take the article "with a pinch of salt" as it had reportedly been leaked by only one side of the talks."  (Jeremy Cliffe, the Berlin bureau chief for the Economist)

 

"The accounts of the dinner - which appear to have come from sources within the European Commission - have been seized upon by opposition parties in the UK."

 

"British perceptions of the meal have not been leaked in the same level of detail but there's no doubt the European briefings will be seen in the UK as provocative - and designed to stir up fears among British voters about what Brexit is going to mean."

 

Re. the last two quotes - quite.....

 

It sounds very much as if the EU is trying to stir up fears among British voters in the hope that a 'remain' party will be elected -rather than May who not only represents the party campaigning to support the leave vote, but is also pointing out that she doesn't accept their ridiculous 'negotiating list'!

 

I particularly like the bit about him producing the paper copies of two previous agreements , like some ham actor with theatrical props, and being subsequently upset when his little show wasn't taken seiously . What a clown. Wonder if he got pi$$ed up again after the meeting?

[Orac]

Similar article on the BBC website http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39770328
 
I particularly liked:-
"The article said that, after last week's dinner, Mr Juncker was shocked at Mrs May's suggestion that a deal on citizens' rights could be achieved so quickly.".
Odd, as after rejecting May's initial suggestion that it should be agreed immediately that EU citizens in the UK could stay/UK citizens in the EU could stay - the EU later said this should be agreed, implying (IIRC) that May was thwarting this agreement.  It appears that Juncker's latest concern on this issue is that May thinks an agreement should be reached quickly as its such an important issue - whereas Juncker thinks it should take months to reach an agreement.....
 
"Speaking to BBC Radio 4's World at One, he said people should take the article "with a pinch of salt" as it had reportedly been leaked by only one side of the talks."  (Jeremy Cliffe, the Berlin bureau chief for the Economist)
 
"The accounts of the dinner - which appear to have come from sources within the European Commission - have been seized upon by opposition parties in the UK."
 
"British perceptions of the meal have not been leaked in the same level of detail but there's no doubt the European briefings will be seen in the UK as provocative - and designed to stir up fears among British voters about what Brexit is going to mean."
 
Re. the last two quotes - quite.....
 
It sounds very much as if the EU is trying to stir up fears among British voters in the hope that a 'remain' party will be elected -rather than May who not only represents the party campaigning to support the leave vote, but is also pointing out that she doesn't accept their ridiculous 'negotiating list'!

Being cynical, the leak of these comments are far more likely to play into TMs hands prior to the GE rather than rouse any support against her so more likely their political purpose was to strengthen public support on the continent than an attempt to influence UK politics.

Being even more cynical, EU leaders are probably keen to see Jeremy Corbin swept away by a massive defeat as this would enable the formation of a more progressive, centrist political party within the UK which would be far more a thorn in the side of TM as the long brexit negotiations proceed.

[dick dasterdly]

35 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I particularly like the bit about him producing the paper copies of two previous agreements , like some ham actor with theatrical props, and being subsequently upset when his little show wasn't taken seiously . What a clown. Wonder if he got pi$$ed up again after the meeting?

Agree entirely.

 

Its depressing that links to these articles  (re. Juncker's comment's after the 'dinner' and released to the press) have been posted in most brexit threads by remainers as evidence that the UK/May is delusional....

 

As far I can see, his 'gripes' amount to nothing more than May wants brexit talks to proceed swiftly/is looking out for the UK during negotiations/May made it clear that she wasn't prepared to accept the EU 'negotiating list' and even less likely to accept their ridiculous demands for 60 bn as a 'divorce' settlement !

 

When it comes to delusional, the best example is the EU negotiating list and demand that the UK pay 60 bn before even talking about trade....

[rufanuf]

And your point? I am talking about Europe.

[rufanuf]

On 5/1/2017 at 5:04 PM, Naam said:

correct me if i'm wrong but rumour has it that the last war a European nation has fought was the Falkland war

And your point Naam? We are talking about Europe here. Defending sovereignty is every countries right, although admittedly most nations of Europe have always needed someone else to defend their sovereignty for them, and it looks like it's going to go that way once again in the not too distant future. Once again the UK will be the only free state left in Europe, and those that allowed them selves to be taken over by dictators will wake up soon and start bleating about having been "invaded"...as ever always too late.

[rufanuf]

On 5/2/2017 at 4:25 AM, Nigel Garvie said:

For a fuller reaction to the dinner read this:-

https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/04/30/the-uk-government-is-completely-deluded-about-brexit/#3bd089ef4f04

 

But for a brief flavour:-  "The UK’s eventual exit from the EU is looking more and more likely to be a train wreck. The Brexiteers in Prime Minister Theresa May’s administration are living in a fantasy world. And although May herself comes across as sensible and pragmatic, it now appears that she is as deluded as they are."

 

What happened to the people of Britain such that their brains deteriorated to the point where they actually believed people like Farage, Johnson, and Gove, let alone the Tory gutter press? What is this all about? It appears that some out of date warped nationalistic impulse has caught on like an ebola epidemic, and we have voted for a significantly contracted economy that will cause financial pain for everyone in the UK.  "It's the economy stupid", and if you still believe a glorious future awaits the Brexit UK keep dreaming.

 

Those you can make believe absurdities you can make commit atrocities. Voltaire

 

 

Your parting quote being the most appropriate. Anyone who believes the EU is a good club to be in.....no amount of economical pain could justify staying in.

[Grouse]

On 5/1/2017 at 2:31 PM, chang1 said:

In a recent BBC interview Macron is threatening Frexit if the EU is not reformed. The rocket has been lit and is causing a few <deleted> to tingle already.

 

I really can see significant changes within the EU

 

Macron seems a good bloke and can probably steer this as the UK should have done

 

Sadly, any changes will not have English input (but possibly Scottish)

 

Interesting times!

[Grouse]

On 5/1/2017 at 3:18 PM, dick dasterdly said:

Do you have a link?

 

I'm sceptical as the EU had every opportunity to reform itself as a result of the brexit result.

 

Instead,  it preferred to change nothing - and rely on fear tactics to keep other countries in line - which should have been un-necessary if the population of other countries were happy with the EU.

I think the EU looks on the UK as something between a curmudgeonly committee member and a total pain in the arsenal! 

 

I reckon there will be changes and Hungary/Poland will easily be encouraged to play nicely.

[Grouse]

On 5/1/2017 at 3:46 PM, mfd101 said:

Golly, it sounds like 1939 all over again. Where are you, Winston? Your people need you yet again as we face our Second Finest Hour!

Err

 

Simply put, Hungary supported Hitler

 

Poland didn't

 

Churchill allowed Stalin to take both in the end though.......

 

[Naam]

39 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

And your point Naam? We are talking about Europe here. Defending sovereignty is every countries right, although admittedly most nations of Europe have always needed someone else to defend their sovereignty for them, and it looks like it's going to go that way once again in the not too distant future. Once again the UK will be the only free state left in Europe, and those that allowed them selves to be taken over by dictators will wake up soon and start bleating about having been "invaded"...as ever always too late.

sure! not to forget that the British Empire will be resurrected and the Pound will buy like in ancient times 20 Deutsch Marks after the demise of the €UR which (according to Brexiteers) will be any time from now.

 

by the way, using the expression "defending sovereignty" pertaining to areas such as the Malvinas or Gibraltar is ridiculous.

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

I really can see significant changes within the EU

 

Macron seems a good bloke and can probably steer this as the UK should have done

 

Sadly, any changes will not have English input (but possibly Scottish)

 

Interesting times!

Sadly, IMO politicians have little/no interest in reforming the EU, and even less interest in leaving - unless suddenly forced to change by a shock result such as the brexit vote.  Only then do they realise that they've pushed the electorate too far and, for the sake of their career, its time to change tactics....

 

After all, its part of 'the club' from which they personally benefit via positions within 'big business' and the EU itself.

 

Even so, to date the EU hasn't even mentioned reform - preferring to rely on frightening the population into submission.  Hence the ridiculous 'negotiating list' and the 'leak' about Juncker's dinner with May - from which it is concluded (by remain supporting media, and of course, unthinking remainers) that May is delusional - for stating the obvious....

Edited May 3, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

I gather the EU has now increased its 'divorce bill' to 100 bn - and they think that May/the UK is delusional !

 

Its becoming ever more obvious that EU politicians think that coming up with increasing. ridiculous demands is going to 'win the day'...

 

Why are they unable to recognise that the populace are very unhappy about various elements of the EU itself - and addressing these grievances would be far more beneficial?

 

Edit - Don't answer that, it was a rhetorical question, and I know the answer .

Edited May 3, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[rockingrobin]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I gather the EU has now increased its 'divorce bill' to 100 bn - and they think that May/the UK is delusional !

 

Its becoming ever more obvious that EU politicians think that coming up with increasing. ridiculous demands is going to 'win the day'...

 

Why are they unable to recognise that the populace are very unhappy about various elements of the EU itself - and addressing these grievances would be far more beneficial?

 

Edit - Don't answer that, it was a rhetorical question, and I know the answer .

The EU have not arrived at any figures for the supposed divorce bill. The amounts being talked about are speculation based on economic modelling 

[rockingrobin]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Sadly, IMO politicians have little/no interest in reforming the EU, and even less interest in leaving - unless suddenly forced to change by a shock result such as the brexit vote.  Only then do they realise that they've pushed the electorate too far and, for the sake of their career, its time to change tactics....

 

After all, its part of 'the club' from which they personally benefit via positions within 'big business' and the EU itself.

 

Even so, to date the EU hasn't even mentioned reform - preferring to rely on frightening the population into submission.  Hence the ridiculous 'negotiating list' and the 'leak' about Juncker's dinner with May - from which it is concluded (by remain supporting media, and of course, unthinking remainers) that May is delusional - for stating the obvious....

How about the multi speed europe

[Khun Han]

9 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

How about the multi speed europe

 

How about it? It's plan B, for in case of unsufficient funds being extorted from the UK in brexit negotiations. It's either multi-speed Europe, or the Fatherland taking a giant economic hit once the UK stops being the economic mug in this game.

[citybiker]

The EU have not arrived at any figures for the supposed divorce bill. The amounts being talked about are speculation based on economic modelling 

Which probably explains why Mr Barnier avoided stating the 'actual' figure in Wednesday's speech, quite frankly the EU's hardball economic talk i.e.: going from €50/60 ban to a speculative €100bn tells you roughly all you need to know about the EU.

It's scaremongering tactics which is increasingly appearing to backfire, as it's showing the following:

Consistent Political & economic warnings
Unknown EU officials spuriously claims.
No tangible breakdown of liabilities, pensions and assets.

Summarise, the more the EU play hardball and threaten any kind of legitimate divorce bill the more TM will batten down the hatches and the result will either be hard break no deal WTO and the EU gets SFA. Which is unlikely as outstanding sums have to be settled depending if they're liable by agreement by the UK or EU.

The more the EU continue on this current route of UK bashing (not penalised but no free deal) then TM will be quite right to give the diplomatic Churchill sign and the EU will get €0.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rufanuf]

On 5/3/2017 at 9:32 AM, Naam said:

sure! not to forget that the British Empire will be resurrected and the Pound will buy like in ancient times 20 Deutsch Marks after the demise of the €UR which (according to Brexiteers) will be any time from now.

 

by the way, using the expression "defending sovereignty" pertaining to areas such as the Malvinas or Gibraltar is ridiculous.

There a plenty of British people who couldn't give a shit about the value of the pound and would happily suffer an economical blip (becuase thats all it will be even it takes 15 years to put this mess John Major made behind us) in the face of attempts by dictators to take control by the back door. It never ceases to amaze me how flawed EU supporters perceptions are not only of those who want know part of the EU now its revealed its true colours, but also their lack of ability to frame the situation in Europe today under the auspices of the EU in the historical context of the dictatorial culture of politics in some EU member states. More sensible people want no part of this flawed outlook on governance. It seems collectively Europe NEVER learns from its past.

[JAG]

About 25 years ago or so there was a senior Conservative Politician called Nicholas Ridley.

He was by all accounts not a very subtle man - he certainly made some fairly acerbic and unsavoury comments on a number of topics as I recall.

 

He lost his job for suggesting that the EU (or more accurately European monetary union, which is the child of the EU) was a "German racket designed to take over the whole of Europe.".

 

It would be really interesting to re-examine that comment in say 25 years time.

 

I might just be around to do so.