Thai Admiral behind the submarine deal defends need for 'dream weapon'

[ikke]

That proves how childish the General was as number 1 in the army and still is as PM, he is just grown out of his diapers..... amazing Thailand !

He : Hey you there, you are the admiral now of the submarine division ..........Thank you Gen. 

[ben2talk]

10 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

More concerned about the cost in human misery when it sinks.

No, seriously - they're SUPPOSED to sink. Look up 'submarine' in your dictionary.

[anotheruser]

2 minutes ago, ben2talk said:

No, seriously - they're SUPPOSED to sink. Look up 'submarine' in your dictionary.

Sink and beached are two different things.

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, ben2talk said:

No, seriously - they're SUPPOSED to sink. Look up 'submarine' in your dictionary.

No, seriously they are not supposed to sink. 

 

They are supppsed to SUBMERGE.

 

It's implicit in the name. 

 

They are not the same in any dictionary. 

 

Good grief...

 

 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Bluespunk

[sawadeeken]

Look at all that gold on those officers in the picture................ and still so many Thai Children needing decent schooling and education.............

SICKENING... is all I can say............... "PITY" the poor Thai People with all the selfish 'upper class' in Thailand

[ben2talk]

8 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

No, seriously they are not supposed to sink. 

They are supppsed to SUBMERGE.

It's implicit in the name. 

They are not the same in any dictionary. 

Good grief...

 

 

 

Submerge means to sink below the surface. Marine means it's the surface of the sea, not atmosphere or freshwater lake...

 

THis is cool, now we can start a total bloodbath over a silly joke about grammar by deciding who is the most correct. Possibly forgetting to laugh in the process and becoming totally offended. (I do believe this is the ThaiVisa way of doing things).

 

Besides which - I simply don't see the relevance. Many things are 'implicit' or and 'generally understood' - I tell my son this when I don't want to be explicit and say 'because I say so, now shut up and keep pushing!'...

 

This guy is desperate to be taken seriously. He has the uniform, he told his wife he's going to work day in day out for years and years... in the end he's had to topple the government in order to get into a position to actually scoop up the cash and shoot anyone criticising him for finally getting into a position to buy his submarine. They have good control over the press, if one sinks or gets lost, they can get an inflatable dummy replacement and nobody will be any the wiser. They're only required to add some kind of 'realism' to the poor guy's life. 

 

I have a vivid concept about a new TV Series showing the UK Traffic police putting on their vests and then going out with no cars - begging in the street, stopping motorists saying 'please, give us a fiver because we're saving up to buy a car'. Surely we can learn a lot from these Thai's! Stop taking the Micheal out of them and give them credit where it's due.

 

Does it come with free rust-proofing? I wonder if the shell is comprised of the new 'composite' armour - or a new rust-proof technology (like my son's remote-control tank).

I hope they read the small print - in Thai shops, any discount offered includes a total refusal of return or refund policy, guarantee for fifty years - not including shell or propulsion units'?

 

I fail to see how can you turn down spending 14 billion baht to get THREE submarines? When the UK launches, it's at a cost of about 65 billion for just one!

 

[anotheruser]

2 minutes ago, sawadeeken said:

Look at all that gold on those officers in the picture................ and still so many Thai Children needing decent schooling and education.............

SICKENING... is all I can say............... "PITY" the poor Thai People with all the selfish 'upper class' in Thailand

Well I for one have heard enough talk it is time we as farang personally intervene and do something about it.

[ben2talk]

2 minutes ago, sawadeeken said:

Look at all that gold on those officers in the picture................ and still so many Thai Children needing decent schooling and education.............

SICKENING... is all I can say............... "PITY" the poor Thai People with all the selfish 'upper class' in Thailand

Don't be silly - they don't need schooling or education.

[anotheruser]

Just now, ben2talk said:

Don't be silly - they don't need schooling or education.

Do they need gold?

[anotheruser]

We could all chip in and help one ounce at a time to plate the submarine with gold, Get some monks the whole deal.

[ben2talk]

2 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

Do they need gold?

They don't - they can buy cheap chinese 'shiny gold plastic' 2 for the price of 3...

[anotheruser]

Just now, ben2talk said:

They don't - they can buy cheap chinese 'shiny gold plastic' 2 for the price of 3...

I can get it for less than 36 billion or even 13 billion. I think we should pitch in to get the windows tinted.

[sawadeeken]

3 minutes ago, ben2talk said:

Don't be silly - they don't need schooling or education.

At least the Hi-So's (upper-class) Thai's don't think so............ The Hi-So's need them kept uneducated so they can find cheap labor.....

[anotheruser]

2 minutes ago, sawadeeken said:

At least the Hi-So's (upper-class) Thai's don't think so............ The Hi-So's need them kept uneducated so they can find cheap labor.....

hi-so's don't think they consume.

[ben2talk]

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

" But Suriya said the Gulf of Thailand shares the same average depth as the Baltic Sea, a site of major submarine battles during World War II. Submarines have operated in the gulf in the past, he said."

OMG - I missed that one - brilliant.

From one generation to the next, the older generation of war machine are generally rendered completely useless. German U-boats could do up to maybe 280 metres, modern subs go maybe to over 700 m. 

 

Chinese Yuan's depth ratings are about the same as WW2 U-boats... so really you shouldn't stray too far from the beach in these toys. 

 

We also know that China imports submarines from Russia. It can easily afford this from the proceeds of it's regular cut-price sales. 2009 saw China threaten Rolls-Royce with 30,000 GBP versions of it's 250,000 car. The correct deal, then, for a Chinese version 'submarine' seems to be around 250/30=8.3333:1. more than 8 for the price of 1. Whoops!

 

 

It appears the press have leaked this image of the submarine under construction...

Edited May 4, 2017 by ben2talk

[jabis]

6 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

The so called S26T submarine does not exist.  They are buying a 'modified' (how/what with we don't know) Yuan Type 39 Submarine derived from an old version of the Kilo class sold to China by Russia eons ago.

The Type 39 Yuan is now believed to be larger, rather than smaller, than the Kilo which is not suitable for shallow water Ops.

 

Should also be noted that the West work on the factor that to keep one type of any vessel at sea at any one time (eg Trident) you need four!  At least one could be in full refit (years) while one is undergoing a routine maintenance period (months), one is working up/down toward/from refit/maintenance/emergency problem (weeks) and one at sea.  It should also be remembered that is a 'Two sided Navy', not an Island navy like the UK/Aus.  They would be much better buying MPAs which can easily cover both coasts.

 

At best they can be described as a 'Fleet in being' and can only work as a possible deterrent with no actual military value out with that 'Fleet in being' concept.

 

Another Collins class fiasco in the making.

 

 

S20-series does exist - though you are on point it's a modified 039(A), stripped off AIP, sonar and weapons systems (which you can buy separately, of course, depending on the depth of your pockets 555) - it was exhibited by China for reporters as the `export version` of Yuan class subs some years back. 

 

EDIT: The S26T naming comes from variant 6 and T for Thailand :) I suppose Pakinstan's official tag for the same package is named S20P (though didn't find any articles regarding that)

Edited May 4, 2017 by jabis
Naming convention

[anotheruser]

Just now, ben2talk said:

OMG - I missed that one - brilliant.

From one generation to the next, the older generation of war machine are generally rendered completely useless. German U-boats could do up to maybe 280 metres, modern subs go maybe to over 700 m. 

 

Chinese Yuan's depth ratings are about the same as WW2 U-boats... so really you shouldn't stray too far from the beach in these toys. 

 

We also know that China imports submarines from Russia. It can easily afford this from the proceeds of it's regular cut-price sales. 2009 saw China threaten Rolls-Royce with 30,000 GBP versions of it's 250,000 car. The correct deal, then, for a Chinese version 'submarine' seems to be around 250/30=8.3333:1. more than 8 for the price of 1. Whoops!

 

In all fairness I don't think it is the rating of the submarine. I think you can buy whatever you want in the submarine world but you will beach if your depth is more than conditions can allow.

 

Dive to 100 meters! lol They would have to park this thing outside the gulf. 

 

I sometimes wonder if the Thai military has even the slightest inclination of what a bunch of moronic goons they are perceived to be?

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, ben2talk said:

 

Submerge means to sink below the surface. Marine means it's the surface of the sea, not atmosphere or freshwater lake...

 

THis is cool, now we can start a total bloodbath over a silly joke about grammar by deciding who is the most correct. Possibly forgetting to laugh in the process and becoming totally offended. (I do believe this is the ThaiVisa way of doing things).

 

Besides which - I simply don't see the relevance. Many things are 'implicit' or and 'generally understood' - I tell my son this when I don't want to be explicit and say 'because I say so, now shut up and keep pushing!'...

 

This guy is desperate to be taken seriously. He has the uniform, he told his wife he's going to work day in day out for years and years... in the end he's had to topple the government in order to get into a position to actually scoop up the cash and shoot anyone criticising him for finally getting into a position to buy his submarine. They have good control over the press, if one sinks or gets lost, they can get an inflatable dummy replacement and nobody will be any the wiser. They're only required to add some kind of 'realism' to the poor guy's life. 

 

I have a vivid concept about a new TV Series showing the UK Traffic police putting on their vests and then going out with no cars - begging in the street, stopping motorists saying 'please, give us a fiver because we're saving up to buy a car'. Surely we can learn a lot from these Thai's! Stop taking the Micheal out of them and give them credit where it's due.

 

Does it come with free rust-proofing? I wonder if the shell is comprised of the new 'composite' armour - or a new rust-proof technology (like my son's remote-control tank).

I hope they read the small print - in Thai shops, any discount offered includes a total refusal of return or refund policy, guarantee for fifty years - not including shell or propulsion units'?

 

I fail to see how can you turn down spending 14 billion baht to get THREE submarines? When the UK launches, it's at a cost of about 65 billion for just one!

 

Buying three for the price of two is taking the Michael. Basing your choice of submarine on "ooh that's a bargain" is ridiculous and may well end in tears. 

 

Ironic you should mention the admiral toppling the govt. it was an attempt to do so by the navy in the fifties that led to the abandonment of the submarine programme. They had seven back then...

 

Oh and...

 

Sink in in the sense I used it is not the same as submerge. 

 

One you survive, the other you don't. 

 

No grammar errors at all. 

 

Likewise my use of  implicit. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Bluespunk

[heybruce]

47 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

In all fairness I don't think it is the rating of the submarine. I think you can buy whatever you want in the submarine world but you will beach if your depth is more than conditions can allow.

 

Dive to 100 meters! lol They would have to park this thing outside the gulf. 

 

I sometimes wonder if the Thai military has even the slightest inclination of what a bunch of moronic goons they are perceived to be?

In answer to your question, I don't think they have a clue, or a care.  They buy military hardware to give the appearance of being a real military, and to generate acquisition costs that can be skimmed.

 

The Thai military doesn't fight wars, it stages coups.  It doesn't exist to protect the country from outside threats, it exists to control the people on behalf of the elites.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEfWEJZfPZQ&feature=youtu.be+width%3A595+height%3A400

[hawker9000]

3 hours ago, ben2talk said:

No, seriously - they're SUPPOSED to sink. Look up 'submarine' in your dictionary.

YOU'RE.the one who needs to do the looking up.  Seriously.  Subs are supposed to submerge, not "sink".   The "sinking" they're intended for is that of other ships...

[John1012]

18 hours ago, ezzra said:

It was reported that most of Thailand's costal and near costal waters are

too shallow for subs activities, and with an absent of clear dangers from

enemies in the foreseeable future, what's the point of having something so

costly that has no use or purpose?.....

Too logical for home consumption. Just like an aircraft carrier with no planes, just a large helicopter platform. Infrastructure and defence forces should have priority, not boy's toys that are useless and very, very expensive.

 

[mallyrd]

16 hours ago, Hereinthailand said:

Whats the big deal about them buying subs ??? Its not like any money is coming out of us foreigners pockets. If they want to spend the money its theirs to spend on anything they want. The thai people wanted this gov. and guess what ? they got exactly what they deserve because they dont seem to be able to do anything themselves.

Speak for yourself about "It's not like any money is coming out of us foreigners pockets". I work for a Thai company and therefore pay taxes and I am pretty sure I am not the only one of us foreigners who also live and/or work legally in Thailand. Your comment is, for the most part, inane. 

[rodney earl]

I wonder if this new purchase will do more time at sea than the aircraft carrier.!!

[Happy Grumpy]

13 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Much cheaper just to remove the engines from their boats and leave them out at sea to die with no food or water, as has been their favoured way of dealing with them in the not so distant past. 

Well, it was before they realized that they could sell them to Malaysian human traffickers.... allegedly. 

[scottiejohn]

14 hours ago, jabis said:

S20-series does exist - though you are on point it's a modified 039(A), stripped off AIP, sonar and weapons systems (which you can buy separately, of course, depending on the depth of your pockets 555) - it was exhibited by China for reporters as the `export version` of Yuan class subs some years back. 

 

EDIT: The S26T naming comes from variant 6 and T for Thailand :) I suppose Pakinstan's official tag for the same package is named S20P (though didn't find any articles regarding that)

The S20 is a paper design.   Only  Pakistan has signed up for (4 to be built in China and 4 in Pakistan).  Pakistan have stated it will have AIP.  The RTN also say their version will also have AIP.  You cannot at this moment in time go anywhere in the world and touch a physical T20/T26 submarine.  As for the RTN integrating a combat system procured from out with China will definitely lead to Collins type Fiasco.  You have to be a major player not to buy a full 'Turn Key' project.  The RTN does not have the capability to do its own integration and my understanding from the RTN's recent TV presentation that it is a full 'Turn Key' project.

[scottiejohn]

15 hours ago, ben2talk said:

I fail to see how can you turn down spending 14 billion baht to get THREE submarines? When the UK launches, it's at a cost of about 65 billion for just one!

Your figures are a just a little bit out.  65B Baht is the near equivalent of the TOTAL cost of all 7 Astute class SSNs.  Recent UK parliamentary figures show the  currently projected total for all stands at 14Billion pounds sterling.

[scottiejohn]

35 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Your figures are a just a little bit out.  65B Baht is the near equivalent of the TOTAL cost of all 7 Astute class SSNs.  Recent UK parliamentary figures show the  currently projected total for all stands at 14Billion pounds sterling.

Please disregard my post re costs.  I blame the calculator!

But remember comparing a 2/3000 ton (we don't really know the specs) conventional sub with a 7,000 ton SSN is still not quite fair.

But

Edited May 5, 2017 by scottiejohn

[ben2talk]

16 hours ago, heybruce said:

In answer to your question, I don't think they have a clue, or a care.  They buy military hardware to give the appearance of being a real military, and to generate acquisition costs that can be skimmed.

 

The Thai military doesn't fight wars, it stages coups.  It doesn't exist to protect the country from outside threats, it exists to control the people on behalf of the elites.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEfWEJZfPZQ&feature=youtu.be+width%3A595+height%3A400

Top answer - they don't care. Not only the Army, you see it with police also.

[ben2talk]

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

Please disregard my post re costs.  I blame the calculator!

But remember comparing a 2/3000 ton (we don't really know the specs) conventional sub with a 7,000 ton SSN is still not quite fair.

But

Lolz it's ok - and surely, you can't compare a toy inflatable boat with a real rowing boat either... 

[tracker1]

 I just read this the whole area is getting overrun with submarines nomore dragon boat races it's submarine races !http://mingalapar.com/forum/index.php/topic/8571-is-myanmar-really-getting-submarines-now/