property purchase

[Rob of Rayong]

Hi , does anyone know if it is possible in a new development to buy a plot in my Thai partner's name and then rent the land from them to buy the house part of the development. The development would include choosing a house type from the land developer who owns the plots and not use an independent builder.All elements would be cash.
I try to combine business sense with love! This gives both of us 
long time security.
I would really appreciate help with this,

[Seizetheday]

Are you married?

 

If you aren't married you can have a valid lease, if married you cannot.

[Rob of Rayong]

Hi

I have a partner but am not married. 

[petermik]

Rob

Google buying a house/land ownership in Thailand much info there.............I had a house built on land my girlfriend owned but I went into it with eyes wide open,my advice is simple.....only spend money here that you can afford to walk away from if necessary

[Rob of Rayong]

Thanks for your comment. I could afford to lose the cost of the plot but not the house on it. That's why I ask if its possible to lease the land from my partner and keep it for 30 years!

In otherwise separate the plot from the house build even on a all in one development!

Thanks for your time.

[LennyW]

You can put the land in your partners name and then she can grant you a lifetime Usufruct, very simple and only a few hundred baht to register it using ready made forms from the Land office.. 

http://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/Usufructs.php

[Rob of Rayong]

Hi Thanks for the info. I will look this up.

However if I had a thirty year lease could I pass it on to someone else or is this complicated.

 

I would not want my partner to influence an early departure!

Edited May 5, 2017 by Rob of Rayong
to add section

[petermik]

7 hours ago, Rob of Rayong said:

.

 

I would not want my partner to influence an early departure!

Its the"family" you have to be aware of mostly...............many decent girls are influenced by the family and here family comes first.

If you cannot afford to walk away from your investment personally I would not go ahead in the first place......the law over here is a minefield for farangs no matter what steps you put in place beforehand

[Rob of Rayong]

Thanks for the warning.

[Rimmer]

Best I move this topic to the Real Estate Forum

[sanuk711]

Rob I take it you are talking about Essan, you do not have to have it in her village, there are many nice towns & areas in Essan to build away from the family. Its not so much that the family will move in if you part, more that they will always be around and have little money. It will be a constant thing that you will argue with your partner about-pick an area away from the family.

[phantomfiddler]

Someone replied that the only way one "can" purchase land is by putting it in the partner,s name. Not wishing to be argumentative, but this is simply not true, and would in 90% + cases lead to certain disaster. There are many and safer ways to own land here, as far as to own meaning to have complete control over. Also one of the biggest con jobs going on here is to buy land from the girl,s family. Nothing will have changed except for the fact that the buyer will have spent a lot of money ! Make sure also that you, and you alone, get and retain receipts for all sums of money that you part with regarding land and house.

[Foozool]

I don't like this part of it: 

A usufruct interest expires upon the death of the holder of the usufruct and therefore cannot be inherited. 

[Rob of Rayong]

Thanks foozool. 

So this is different from a lease?

 

[wirat69]

"Rob of Rayong" Thanks foozool. 
So this is different from a lease?
 
No.... Usufruct is a lease of 30 years plus possible, not mandatory, 30 year renewal. It terminates on death of lesser, without any rights of bequest

It is, however, the only way to "own" the land, unless you form a company with majority Thais (who have sufficient assets in their own to satisfy enquiries of the Land Office)

The only suggestion I would make is that the owner and usufructor is NOT a member of the family. In my opinion, it is best to be a TRUSTED (if that not be an oxymoron) friend outside of the family (note my above comment re assets and Land Office still applies)

As others have advised, treat the family with extreme caution



Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[janclaes47]

4 minutes ago, wirat69 said:

Usufruct is a lease of 30 years plus possible, not mandatory, 30 year renewal.

Usufruct has nothing to do with lease, and has no time period attached, it is indefinitely till death of the usufructee.

[MW72]

The lease route is viable. I did this myself. GF's Father gave her some land, had the chanote checked out by a lawyer, lawyer knocked up the 30 year lease, paid the 30 years up front and she used that money to pay the builder. Be under no illusions. As Petermik stated, never invest more than you are willing to walk away from. I live in a small village in the north. The oldest sister lives next door (married to Pooyaban), 2nd oldest sister lives across the street, father and oldest brother live in the same village and 2 more sisters live in the next village. Everything is great at the moment and we all seem to get on but in the future if things go tits up and they want me out then I will walk away. You hear plenty of dark stories of people mysteriously dying or disappearing. Even if that didn't happen can you imagine how uncomfortable it would be living in my house when no one wants me to be there. Your circumstances may be very different but it is worth thinking about.

[Rob of Rayong]

Thanks for your advice. It is always worth considering the darkest outcomes.

There are always family tensions under the surface in village life. A lot of it caused by jealousy!

 

What I am unclear about is that if you took a lease on the land why do have to give money to your wife as well? I thought it could be a very nominal fee?

Could you not have built the house with your own money?

 

Even if you walked away, the house  would still be yours and they could not touch it until the lease expired. The house being separated from the land.

 

I guess if you married it complicates things. 

 

 

[MW72]

2 hours ago, Rob of Rayong said:

Thanks for your advice. It is always worth considering the darkest outcomes.

There are always family tensions under the surface in village life. A lot of it caused by jealousy!

 

What I am unclear about is that if you took a lease on the land why do have to give money to your wife as well? I thought it could be a very nominal fee?

Could you not have built the house with your own money?

 

Even if you walked away, the house  would still be yours and they could not touch it until the lease expired. The house being separated from the land.

 

I guess if you married it complicates things. 

 

 

The lease was for the house and the land. The value of the lease was the builders estimate to build the new house. I could have paid the builder myself but I work overseas quite a bit so it was just much easier that she dealt with everything. I'm not into this idea that you can own property but not the land. What is the point of that? It's all or nothing. In my case I'm happy for her to be the legal owner of both.

 

If it gets to the stage that I walk away for any reason then there would be no reason for me to try and stop her using the house. That would just be an added stress I wouldn't need. She would be welcome to it.

[funandsuninbangkok]

Renting in Thailand is heaven.

 

Leave your cash offshore, since your paying the bills - no incentive to murder you, when you need to go - just leave the keys in the kitchen counter. 

 

La de da

[Rob of Rayong]

Thanks funandsunin bangkok!

 

Yeah. I always think about that. It gives me security knowing that I am needed form month to month.

Problem is I can not get long rents in places I want to live in Rayong. Each time I  have to move and clean the house I put my back and leg out for months!

 

Got any recommendations for investing money offshore?

[timberpond]

Rob, buy a ready property fully furnished. Pay the minimum down payment and finance the rest at the maximum term with her name. 

Most relationship failed in the first few years. After 20 years when the property is fully paid, things should fall in place naturally. 

 

At least if it fail at the early stages you only loses a few percent of the property and she can have it with 18 years loan to go. 

[Rob of Rayong]

hi Timberpond

Thanks for your message. The only problem is that if I want to live in a 5 million Baht property my partner would not get the finance in their name unless you know a way around this! If they could then I would pay the payments each month for as long as the relationship lasted.very easy with a car but not a house.

Rob

[timberpond]

Aha... this can be a problem and that's why her salary is 30k per month on paper since last year.

Few more months to go for the minimum 1 year financial proof. 

[kuma]

On 5/5/2017 at 8:21 PM, wirat69 said:

"Rob of Rayong" Thanks foozool. 
So this is different from a lease?
 
No.... Usufruct is a lease of 30 years plus possible, not mandatory, 30 year renewal. It terminates on death of lesser, without any rights of bequest

It is, however, the only way to "own" the land, unless you form a company with majority Thais (who have sufficient assets in their own to satisfy enquiries of the Land Office)

The only suggestion I would make is that the owner and usufructor is NOT a member of the family. In my opinion, it is best to be a TRUSTED (if that not be an oxymoron) friend outside of the family (note my above comment re assets and Land Office still applies)

As others have advised, treat the family with extreme caution



Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Good day all

 

I have been following this thread and others trying to understand the + and - of Superficies vs Usufruct.

 

My scenario is somewhat different from the OP. I have been in a steady relationship for over 6 years and am considering now purchasing some property that will be in my partners name and stay in her name.

 

It is in a region unrelated to her family, and we have had no "family issues" in our first six years and suspect there will never be any, as our arrangement has been one where I support only her as my live in partner, no other family help is provided or asked for, till now.

 

I suspect that will always be the case and the road ahead should be smooth (or I am sure our partnership would have ended long ago given the river bed was dry) but you never know and we both feel it is a god idea for me to protect my interest with one of these two arrangements.

 

In my case, I want to buy the land - and put it in her name with the understanding it will always be hers, but secure myself against any future missteps with a contract that grants me the right to develop and reside on the land with no right of forceable removal, until such time I no longer need it (expire or decide to move on).

 

I have no dependants and no desire to extend the contract such that it can survive my passing and be inherited by someone else, when I am done, she will have the property.

 

One thing i do have interest in is that the contract permits me to do as I see fit with the land while I have it - meaning I can build on it - and I can demolish on it, so I have the right to build/take down/change as i see fit over the period with no encumbrances (other than what zoning does not allow) so in effect I could hand it over at some future date with all structures developed on it in place, or I could demolish all that was there and return it in the raw state in which it existed at the time it was purchased.

 

Any insight into these options and which would fit best would be appreciated.

 

Cheers

[BEVUP]

A lot of the posters missed the bit about "in a new moo baan"

* First of all you may have forgotten one thing if it applies - You said you want to buy (ok G/F ) a block of land from Developer - * Are they prepared to sell you that block at land price only - I don't think so as I know a person that wanted 4 blocks & there was no way they were going to sell at land price only in a new development - It worked out they he would of saved 100,000 bht per block as all the blocks had been calculated for the house land package 

* & yes if it becomes that bad & you have to walk away just do it knowing the feeling that they will be broke one day 

Edited May 9, 2017 by BEVUP

[kuma]

Bevup

 

Good point and yes unfortunately one to watch for. This land they are quoting a price for undeveloped land only. They have a few lots with homes on them already and there is a significant price difference, accounting for the home built. Prices for the land also line up with the market in the area, so I am comfortable with the price.

 

Thanks

[kuma]

On 5/8/2017 at 2:52 PM, kuma said:

Good day all

 

I have been following this thread and others trying to understand the + and - of Superficies vs Usufruct.

 

My scenario is somewhat different from the OP. I have been in a steady relationship for over 6 years and am considering now purchasing some property that will be in my partners name and stay in her name.

 

It is in a region unrelated to her family, and we have had no "family issues" in our first six years and suspect there will never be any, as our arrangement has been one where I support only her as my live in partner, no other family help is provided or asked for, till now.

 

I suspect that will always be the case and the road ahead should be smooth (or I am sure our partnership would have ended long ago given the river bed was dry) but you never know and we both feel it is a god idea for me to protect my interest with one of these two arrangements.

 

In my case, I want to buy the land - and put it in her name with the understanding it will always be hers, but secure myself against any future missteps with a contract that grants me the right to develop and reside on the land with no right of forceable removal, until such time I no longer need it (expire or decide to move on).

 

I have no dependants and no desire to extend the contract such that it can survive my passing and be inherited by someone else, when I am done, she will have the property.

 

One thing i do have interest in is that the contract permits me to do as I see fit with the land while I have it - meaning I can build on it - and I can demolish on it, so I have the right to build/take down/change as i see fit over the period with no encumbrances (other than what zoning does not allow) so in effect I could hand it over at some future date with all structures developed on it in place, or I could demolish all that was there and return it in the raw state in which it existed at the time it was purchased.

 

Any insight into these options and which would fit best would be appreciated.

 

Cheers

Back to the thread with a question...

 

I was told that recently the Bangkok authorities "suggested' that no more lease contracts like Usufruct , etc be permitted any more, but that each officer in their respective land office can decide on a case by case basis whether an application can be accepted - this is a recent development, has anyone else heard such news?   They further stated that in Chonburi indeed no such arrangements are currently being allowed. I always take this with a grain of salt, but interestingly enough I was in a real estate office for a consultation on buying land and they said this and also that the company formation idea is not a good way forward (would not do it anyway). They suggested speak to land office in province I am looking to buy and move very carefully, they did not want the business.....

 

Anyone who can update thanks in advance...

[funandsuninbangkok]

20 minutes ago, kuma said:

Back to the thread with a question...

 

I was told that recently the Bangkok authorities "suggested' that no more lease contracts like Usufruct , etc be permitted any more, but that each officer in their respective land office can decide on a case by case basis whether an application can be accepted - this is a recent development, has anyone else heard such news?   They further stated that in Chonburi indeed no such arrangements are currently being allowed. I always take this with a grain of salt, but interestingly enough I was in a real estate office for a consultation on buying land and they said this and also that the company formation idea is not a good way forward (would not do it anyway). They suggested speak to land office in province I am looking to buy and move very carefully, they did not want the business.....

 

Anyone who can update thanks in advance...

Listen to what you are hearing. Typical Asian view of the law. OK today but not tomorrow. Good for me but not for you. Oh! We don't do that anymore. You need to pay more. 

 

Tent in Thailand, invest offshore

[kuma]

14 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Listen to what you are hearing. Typical Asian view of the law. OK today but not tomorrow. Good for me but not for you. Oh! We don't do that anymore. You need to pay more. 

 

Tent in Thailand, invest offshore

LOL yes I hear you. Own my condo now and thought I would not go further than that but this is a pretty special chunk of land so going thru the due diligence.

 

It is a lot of hassle, now remembering what it was like to wade thru all this ** - but will put a small deposit down on Thursday to secure it then have a few months to complete due diligence. It was at a law office yesterday where I was given this feedback - now trying to confirm if it is actually the case.

 

Would very much be easier to leave things as they are.......but

 

Cheers