Suvarnabhumi Airport Faces Partial Shutdown

[manjara]

But that is the way it has always been & the way it will always be. To expect anything else is irrational.

The Thai contractors I have hired are always trying to tell me that plywood is real wood.

Expecting a Thai worker to produce a quality finish without explicitly explaining in detail what to do and how to do it is irrational (if you have experience of Thailand).

The natural level is 'minimum acceptable quality', and it seems that at Suvarnabhumi, the bar was set too low, or no-one had the time to explain what was necessary.

Look at all the forum posts on construction and the recurring theme is that you have to watch the workers every minute and make sure you stop them from performing some stupid shortcut.

Electrical cable not in the walls, unsanded wood being varnished or painted, no covering of conrete during setting, no use of levels to ensure floor/wall is even, inability of almost everyone to grasp the concept of a plan view.

I have the utmost respect for the people who manage to get high quality items produced in Thailand, it takes a lot of effort in education, training and just refusing to accept something that has been done wrong. When time is tight, the will to enforce quality diminishes.

Thailand will have to change, as the other countries such as Cambodia and Vietnam do not seem to have the same problems with doing business. They will pass Thailand pretty quickly as the place to be unless change happens.

Tourism is not enough, any country that is going to develop needs to have a thriving business community that can compete in an increasingly competitive world market, where quality matters more and more.

[Acquiesce]

Thailand will have to change, as the other countries such as Cambodia and Vietnam do not seem to have the same problems with doing business. They will pass Thailand pretty quickly as the place to be unless change happens.

Tourism is not enough, any country that is going to develop needs to have a thriving business community that can compete in an increasingly competitive world market, where quality matters more and more.

Manjara, i enjoyed your post and think it was very well writen and thought out, however you let yourself down at the last hurdle. Are you trying to tell us that the quality of construction in Cambodia and Vietnam are of a higher quality than that of Thailand? Are you also saying that these two counrties don't take shortcuts, produce a superior quality product and are easier to do business with than Thailand?

[sleepy]

Here here three cheers to LOZ. I like thailand for what it is, yes there are also a few things i find difficult to understand (ie the amount of plastic bags floating around the country side) but hey it's Thailand and "never mind" as for corruption try Australia where if you are in the government and you cost the taxpayer millions i'ts okay.tisk tisk oops. Yes some problems in Thailand have a look at the rest of the world Singapore and south Korea buildings collapse and kills hundreds due to faulty engineering and greed. So yes the airport is a worry but who designed it some country in Europe . Also new airport terminal in France partly collapses! So I say to people who jump on the negative of everything that happens here, maybe it is time to leave the land of the smiles and plastic bags and go for a reality check Try Wembly stadium london hum havin a bit of bover there. Or Adelaide SA were unless you have a few hundred grand to spare you will find it very difficult to launch or moor your boat

[deminister]

It is a no brainer that the Junta will start the blame game, blaming the former caibinet and PM for this. Unfortunately for them we are not all completely stupid. They do not give a rats ass about the country, they serve a clique of high networth individuals who got a beating last week at the SET, because of a clumpsy almost stupid action of the BOT and the ministry of Finance. They need to focus on a problem in order not to lose the support of the very few populist and opportunistic people that still believe in them and their reasons. As it was the army and their supporters who often used the word Hitler when it came to Thaksin, they must have studied Goebbels very throroughly too. In order to keep in power you invent a problem. That the country and its name will be further damaged is unimportant for charlatans who claim to be dictators to save the country.

[Kaak]

Thailand will have to change, as the other countries such as Cambodia and Vietnam do not seem to have the same problems with doing business. They will pass Thailand pretty quickly as the place to be unless change happens.

[mbkudu]

What do they expect; it's built over a swamp. A Thai friend of mine told me that years and years ago the Thai Air Force agreed to relocate upcountry from where they are now (Just outside Bangkok). The existing Air Force base is/was ideal for a new airport because most of the basic infrastructure was already in place and there is plenty of area.The offer was turned down. Why? Not enough opportunity for pocket filling and bid padding. By the way, Suvarnabhumi was well on its way before Thaksin came along; he just followed through with the hair brained scheme that he was presented with. I don't think he really gives a sh!t at the moment. I wouldn't if I were him.

[Kaak]

Thailand will have to change, as the other countries such as Cambodia and Vietnam do not seem to have the same problems with doing business. They will pass Thailand pretty quickly as the place to be unless change happens.

quote]

I'll be in Penang in 3 weeks and if i don't return with a non-imm B visa, I'll shortly after be residing on a beach in Cambodia rather than Pattaya. I'm fed up with 2 years of ceaseless bs. I'll let you all know how my imminent move works out, good or bad.

[Who, me ?]

What do they expect; it's built over a swamp. A Thai friend of mine told me that years and years ago the Thai Air Force agreed to relocate upcountry from where they are now (Just outside Bangkok). The existing Air Force base is/was ideal for a new airport because most of the basic infrastructure was already in place and there is plenty of area.The offer was turned down. Why? Not enough opportunity for pocket filling and bid padding. By the way, Suvarnabhumi was well on its way before Thaksin came along; he just followed through with the hair brained scheme that he was presented with. I don't think he really gives a sh!t at the moment. I wouldn't if I were him.

Changi airport is still the reference, with Hong Kong ! Suvarnabhumi is so far a poor airport, poorly built, poorly efficient....My numerous times there as a passenger, or to pick up a guest were all giving me the same feeling.....How comes that such a supposed to be new reference is so poor !!!

[KK-Mike]

I always thought the 60/ 40 was a good division between the airports. Originally they were gonna move 60% of the traffic over to NBIA and DMK would retain the other 40% traffic based on regional, domestic and charters.

Don Muang is a time tested airport and can become a wonderful budget carrier airport for all Thailand destinations plus Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc...

I can understand that if you are in Thailand going to another part of Thailand that going to DMK would be ok. If you arrive in Thailand on an international flight at the new airport, then you had to transfer to the old airport to continue your trip to another city in Thailand. Now that another story, what a hassle that would be.

[Who, me ?]

I always thought the 60/ 40 was a good division between the airports. Originally they were gonna move 60% of the traffic over to NBIA and DMK would retain the other 40% traffic based on regional, domestic and charters.

Don Muang is a time tested airport and can become a wonderful budget carrier airport for all Thailand destinations plus Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc...

I can understand that if you are in Thailand going to another part of Thailand that going to DMK would be ok. If you arrive in Thailand on an international flight at the new airport, then you had to transfer to the old airport to continue your trip to another city in Thailand. Now that another story, what a hassle that would be.

They will build a shttle between the two airports and it will be another good source of......well, better not say, we all know !

[Hoov]

Corruption in Thailand is no better/no worse than in the U.S. or Europe. In the U.S. and Europe, much of the money ends up in the hands of highly overpaid, highly underworked UNION/SYNDICAT employees, that may be paid $100 an hour, when they could easily be replaced with a NON union employee for 1/10 that wage. Don't forget the 34 hour work week in some parts of Europe, and the six weeks paid vacation. You don't consider that CORRUPT? In Thailand, at least some of the money ends up in the investor's /risk takers pockets, and yes, some crooked government officials' pockets, who probably aren't overpaid that much.

I prefer the crooked Thai ways to the crooked US and european ways... at least in Thailand, they don't pretend they aren't corrupt like in the U.S. and europe.

And compare the airport taxes in Thailand to those in Europe... it's a bargain here. I recall in Europe, you could find fares for like $1 one way, plus $100 each way in "taxes and fees". That's not corrupt?

I agree Don Muang would make a great budget airport, and Bangkok is big enough to support two airports, which are far apart from each other. U-tapao airport, past Pattaya, is the one that should probably close, since the new Bangkok airport is much closer to Pattaya/Rayong areas.

My complaints with the new airport: air conditioning seems to be insufficient and spotty in certain areas, and the arrivals area is already drastically overcrowded. They had a chance to make a spacious arrivals area, and they didn't. It's a frickin' zoo most of the time.

[Alreadyinuse]

I really hope they make up their minds soon about when and how as I'm flying (beginning of Febs) from Chiangmai to Bangkok to catch a flight to Sydney just 3 hours after arriving....

Any info on when they're thinking of doing what? Gee, who am I kidding? I just looked at my own silly question; TIT & TDT! It'll probably be a few more months.

Better off reschedule

[Felt 35]

Maybe I misunderstand your point, but how can this be corrupt:

Don't forget the 34 hour work week in some parts of Europe, and the six weeks paid vacation. You don't consider that CORRUPT?

Where I come from every employee is in a work organisation whatever position and work you do. The employee’s pay a monthly fee to keep the organisation alive. Every year they have an election to vote for the employees the workers want to “talk” their case. The elected employees receive no income for be in this position.

The main task for this organisation is of course to front the workers rights including deal with the owner/management of the workplace when there is wage conflict or discussions about working hours/week.

Without this organisation employees have no rights and would probably still be underpaid and working seven days a week.

[dsfbrit]

I always thought the 60/ 40 was a good division between the airports. Originally they were gonna move 60% of the traffic over to NBIA and DMK would retain the other 40% traffic based on regional, domestic and charters.

Don Muang is a time tested airport and can become a wonderful budget carrier airport for all Thailand destinations plus Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc...

I can understand that if you are in Thailand going to another part of Thailand that going to DMK would be ok. If you arrive in Thailand on an international flight at the new airport, then you had to transfer to the old airport to continue your trip to another city in Thailand. Now that another story, what a hassle that would be.

They will build a shttle between the two airports and it will be another good source of......well, better not say, we all know !

I dont really understand the problem with 2 airports in Bangkok.

If you are flying into London and you land at Heathrow and want a connecting flight to Manchester you get the connecting flight at Heathrow.

If you land at Gatwick then you get the connecting flight from Gatwick - you dont transfer to Heathrow for the local connecting flight.

All that would need to happen in Thailand is for Eva Air (say) to go to Don Muang and British Airways to Savarnabumi(say).

Then pick up internal flights from current local carriers or maybe this is an opportunity for new low price carriers if current local airlines dont have enough resources to provide this service.

Hey, perhaps landing fees could be cheaper at Don Muang as well as it wont need so much expense to keep it open with all the repairs.

Or am I missing something?

Merry Xmas

[john b good]

I always thought the 60/ 40 was a good division between the airports. Originally they were gonna move 60% of the traffic over to NBIA and DMK would retain the other 40% traffic based on regional, domestic and charters.

Don Muang is a time tested airport and can become a wonderful budget carrier airport for all Thailand destinations plus Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc...

I can understand that if you are in Thailand going to another part of Thailand that going to DMK would be ok. If you arrive in Thailand on an international flight at the new airport, then you had to transfer to the old airport to continue your trip to another city in Thailand. Now that another story, what a hassle that would be.

Moscow International is 100 kilometres from Domodedevo Domestic

[Johpa]

If they had any sense of humor, they would rename the joint

Thaksin Memorial Cobra Swamp Airport

while he is still alive.

Credit where credit is due.

Actually I think you can trace the development of this airport all the way back into the 1970s and the Kriangsak era. I know I have been reading references in the newspapers to the Cobra Swamp airport since my first extended trip back in the early 1980s.

Indeed credit is due where credit is due.

Chaiyo!

[rad1958]

Does anyone think this could merely be a witch hunt ? Given extreme ineptness of the current regime at economic management, what kind of capacity does this bunch have for sound decision-making ? Are they not likely to be driven towards justifying theie coup and the actions thereafter more than anything else (including welfare of the nation) ? Which is the project of the scale of suvarnbhoomi that doesn't face teething troubles ? Is it entirely impossible to alter the complex marginally (e.g., build mor etilets etc.) ot make it work ? Is it so hopeless as to be shut down ( not sure which "parts" of it they are shutting down to require falling back on Don Muang) ?

Isn't just about eveyone invlolved in this virtual conversation too willing to accept at its face value what's written in the media and not question the written word ?

human race SUCKS ....

[backflip]

rad,

You read my mind...

Whenever George W. Bush and his illicit cohorts want to raise the hackles of the US citizens, he screams "imminent terrorist attack". In Thailand, various people with unpronounceable surnames - with the same purpose as George - scream "corruption at the new airport".

Where's the proof? Forget the two-week-in-the-future-report, where's the proof NOW?

The same TVers who are screaming for the head of the unknown crook, plead "innocent until proven guilty" for any non-Thai guy who butchers his girlfriend.

A couple years ago, one guy complained about corruption with the parking concession. As it turned out, HE tried to cheat the government, and he was upset that someone didn't share the graft with him. He claimed he had a DVD that absolutely prove his claim. "Ah ha", I thought, "a hidden microphone and camera will prove this guy right." The DVD was simply him sitting in front of a video camera, reciting his claims of theft, graft, corruption.

So, where's the proof?

[phillip2006]

Dealt with a few cowboy builders back home, trust Thailand 2 take it 2 the extreme tho.

[Stef]

Suvarnabhum is not perfect but none is. Changing lights and adding toilets and so on would be much cheaper than opening Don Muang back. Opening it would require to hire thousands of employees. How about electricity, air conditioning and other overhead costs?

The govenrment should fix and extend Suvarnabhum. Don Muang should be destroyed and replaced by a nice public park.

[LoveThai]

Lee Kuan Yew did Singapore a great service by saying (around 1960): "We won't thrive in a globalised world unless we get it accepted that we are 'squeaky clean'---so we will start by paying a proper level of salary to public servants, but insisting that they maintain the levels of Civil Servant probity that the British have demonstrated. And we'll root out corruption in commerce."

(He also saw to it that those levels were maintained, and even honed, over the years whilst they were slipping in the UK. But that is an aside.)

It was a case of: "The hardware and software only produce the results if the orgware is in place". And this publication of the report on the deficiencies at the new airport could be a result of the same thinking.

Politically, in Thailand, 2006 was 'interesting times'. Maybe that will carry on into 2007.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

" squeaky clean"???? The LKY govt now is what i call legalized corruption, worse that whatever corruption that exists. Minister dun get paid millions, even USA president dun get a million $ salary a year. Is that what you call clean? A white collar crime. British govt minster dun get $ million salary ,why dun he follow that? British demostrate human rights and democrarcy , why he dun follow that?

[hardy1943]

Suvarnabhumi Airport at least works most of the time and workmanship may not be the greatest.

I have CSLOX INFO SATILLITE and it only works 10% of the time and they charge me 2700 a month

and if you call them no one ever even answers the phone they are really CORRUPT and are Thieves

with no service at all and a product that does not work. On the other hand I found most small contractors very honest and reasonable and some very good.

[britmaveric]

Simple fact the new airport was never ready to be open, everyone knew it, but they decided to do it anyways.

[beammeup]

I for one like the new airport. I also like the Thai people and like living here. You guys worry about a lot of garbage dont you? Its Christmas lighten up a little. For your own wellbeing try focusing on the positives. Maybe they will work the bugs out of the new airport. At least they ar not sweeping it under the carpet.

Live long and prosper!!

[john b good]

Lee Kuan Yew did Singapore a great service by saying (around 1960): "We won't thrive in a globalised world unless we get it accepted that we are 'squeaky clean'---so we will start by paying a proper level of salary to public servants, but insisting that they maintain the levels of Civil Servant probity that the British have demonstrated. And we'll root out corruption in commerce."

(He also saw to it that those levels were maintained, and even honed, over the years whilst they were slipping in the UK. But that is an aside.)

It was a case of: "The hardware and software only produce the results if the orgware is in place". And this publication of the report on the deficiencies at the new airport could be a result of the same thinking.

Politically, in Thailand, 2006 was 'interesting times'. Maybe that will carry on into 2007.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

" squeaky clean"???? The LKY govt now is what i call legalized corruption, worse that whatever corruption that exists. Minister dun get paid millions, even USA president dun get a million $ salary a year. Is that what you call clean? A white collar crime. British govt minster dun get $ million salary ,why dun he follow that? British demostrate human rights and democrarcy , why he dun follow that?

Lee Kuan Yew did Singapore a great service by saying (around 1960).....

He must have had some foresight.

Singapore only came into being as a independent country in 1965.

[rabmail]

Lee Kuan Yew did Singapore a great service by saying (around 1960): "We won't thrive in a globalised world unless we get it accepted that we are 'squeaky clean'---so we will start by paying a proper level of salary to public servants, but insisting that they maintain the levels of Civil Servant probity that the British have demonstrated. And we'll root out corruption in commerce."

(He also saw to it that those levels were maintained, and even honed, over the years whilst they were slipping in the UK. But that is an aside.)

It was a case of: "The hardware and software only produce the results if the orgware is in place". And this publication of the report on the deficiencies at the new airport could be a result of the same thinking.

Politically, in Thailand, 2006 was 'interesting times'. Maybe that will carry on into 2007.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

" squeaky clean"???? The LKY govt now is what i call legalized corruption, worse that whatever corruption that exists. Minister dun get paid millions, even USA president dun get a million $ salary a year. Is that what you call clean? A white collar crime. British govt minster dun get $ million salary ,why dun he follow that? British demostrate human rights and democrarcy , why he dun follow that?

I don't normally post on this forum, but I can't pass up a comment on your post.

I think you have the wrong impression of Singapore and I have to wonder how much time you have really spent there. They pay Minsters the salary they would get for their qualifications in the Private Sector. If they did not, you would not have the high caliber of Ministers in the Cabinet. This is why Singapore has been such a success.

BTW, I have spent the past 36 years in the region, most of it between Thailand and Singapore. so I think I have some idea on this subject.

Edited December 25, 2006 by rabmail

[Hollywood]

Corruption in Thailand is no better/no worse than in the U.S. or Europe. In the U.S. and Europe, much of the money ends up in the hands of highly overpaid, highly underworked UNION/SYNDICAT employees, that may be paid $100 an hour, when they could easily be replaced with a NON union employee for 1/10 that wage. Don't forget the 34 hour work week in some parts of Europe, and the six weeks paid vacation. You don't consider that CORRUPT? In Thailand, at least some of the money ends up in the investor's /risk takers pockets, and yes, some crooked government officials' pockets, who probably aren't overpaid that much.

I prefer the crooked Thai ways to the crooked US and european ways... at least in Thailand, they don't pretend they aren't corrupt like in the U.S. and europe.

And compare the airport taxes in Thailand to those in Europe... it's a bargain here. I recall in Europe, you could find fares for like $1 one way, plus $100 each way in "taxes and fees". That's not corrupt?

I agree Don Muang would make a great budget airport, and Bangkok is big enough to support two airports, which are far apart from each other. U-tapao airport, past Pattaya, is the one that should probably close, since the new Bangkok airport is much closer to Pattaya/Rayong areas.

My complaints with the new airport: air conditioning seems to be insufficient and spotty in certain areas, and the arrivals area is already drastically overcrowded. They had a chance to make a spacious arrivals area, and they didn't. It's a frickin' zoo most of the time.

[Hollywood]

I love those "armchair quarterbacks".Heres an idea..YOU build a billion dollar project and let us critque it.

I was actually thinking the oposite of weho. This is the kind of work you get when you pay men about 10 dollars a day.

I have been in construction for years and things never go 100% right. If its the concrete on the runways that is understandable from a bad batch of concrete , to a load too long on a truck or rain that day. I know in the USA people bitch about unions,OSHA and numerous building codes but I have walked by many large construction sites in Bangkok and cannot believe what I see.

I was at the airport 4 times and thought it was great.

Merry Xmas

[aaaaaa]

today on Thai TV that woman who's in charge of finances gave interview - said that she's already got all evidences that Thaksin DID NOT take any money from Suvarnabhum project.

then question remains: WHO did ?

that means all those money remains in the country still - in the pockets of those guys who's taken them.

so, will we have to wait till another coup or next government re-shuffle to expect similar investigations into this matter? because it seems that Thais have habit to talk only about those who are "out" not about those who are still around.

[grtaylor]

Maybe it is - but it did open in 1981, and has therefore had 25 years to get its act together . . . . . .

G

Changi airport is still the reference, with Hong Kong ! Suvarnabhumi is so far a poor airport, poorly built, poorly efficient....My numerous times there as a passenger, or to pick up a guest were all giving me the same feeling.....How comes that such a supposed to be new reference is so poor !!!