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5 hours ago, Trevor1809 said:
6 hours ago, 7by7 said:
7 hours ago, Seekingasylum said:

It is she who will ensure EU citizens are treated the same as the rest of the world..........

No; it was the referendum result which did this

How on earth do you come to that conclusion? The referendum was just in or out and acceptance of the pathetic package that DC negotiated

 The referendum was a simple; remain in the EU on the basis of the package negotiated by Cameron, or leave. The result was to leave. If not a member of the EU, or EEA, then the FoM directive does not apply.

 

Which means that, unless as part of the deal the UK government, whoever that may be, agrees to remain bound by the FoM directive, then post Brexit EU, EEA and Swiss nationals will no longer have any rights under the directive as far as the UK is concerned. Neither will British nationals have those rights in the EU, EEA or Switzerland.

 

If the referendum result had been to remain in the EU, then this would not be an issue because the UK would still be bound by the directive.

 

One hopes the position of EU, EEA and Swiss nationals already resident in the UK, and vice versa, will be enshrined in any deal and they will be able to remain and obtain PR if they wish.

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3 hours ago, nontabury said:

  Slightly on this topic, perhaps 7x7 can confirm if it's true or not, that at present, E.U. national can in fact bring into the U.K,their non-EUropean wives. Without all this hassle

 Yes, if the EU national is exercising a treaty right under the Freedom of Movement Directive; just as a British national can do the same in any other EU and EEA country and Switzerland.

 

See EEA Family Permit for how the UK handle applications of this type.

 

As i say above, all this is likely to change post Brexit.

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2 hours ago, KhunSteven said:

So Britain and the Tories have become a bunch of racist xenophobes. :sad:

Its not racist or xenophobic to be concerned about the number of people allowed to migrate into to a small island. I think the UK is still one of the least xenophobic countries in the world.  For example I lived in France for a while and witnessed how racist and intolerant the French are. Paris is surrounded by sink estates which essentially 'warehouse' disenchanted young unemployed Muslims of North African heritage - French companies don't want to employ them. Its basically one big powder keg.  Britain sure has its problems, but its a much fairer and less discriminatory society. Let's not even get started on Thailand..

Edited by HauptmannUK
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13 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

Obviously I disagree with that statement!

I think the manifesto's stance on immigration is very much in line with current British public opinion and a sure-fire vote winner - polling done by CCO indicates its the most popular Conservative policy. In fact I would say that the majority of working class Labour supporters are also strongly against immigration.  Moreover I often see posts on TV from UK expats lamenting how the UK has changed due to mass immigration!

My impression is that hostility to immigrants (especially non-Caucasian) has increased sharply since the Brexit vote. My own wife (Thai) has experienced a couple of racist incidents here in the UK over the last year (and we lived in a very 'diverse' city).

Personally I don't know anybody who is not in favour of reducing immigration, and reducing non-European immigration is top of the list.

 

 

"Personally I don't know anybody who............."

 

Well of course you don't, how could you?:

 

"Birds of a feather flock together".

 

 

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

"Personally I don't know anybody who............."

 

Well of course you don't, how could you?:

 

"Birds of a feather flock together".

 

 

 

 

 

Well, in my work I meet a lot of people of all political persuasions. A lot of them don't agree with Brexit and some are concerned about a possible shortage of labour - however everybody is concerned about the impact that immigration has had over the last few years.

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5 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

Its not racist or xenophobic to be concerned about the number of people allowed to migrate into to a small island. I think the UK is still one of the least xenophobic countries in the world.  For example I lived in France for a while and witnessed how racist and intolerant the French are. Paris is surrounded by sink estates which essentially 'warehouse' disenchanted young unemployed Muslims of North African heritage - French companies don't want to employ them. Its basically one big powder keg.  Britain sure has its problems, but its a much fairer and less discriminatory society. Let's not even get started on Thailand..

Correct it's not racist or xenophobic to be concerned about the number of people coming into the U.K.  But what I cannot get my head around, why is Teresa May so intent on making it so difficult for her fellow citizens to bring their own wives into the country. Could this spitefull decision haunt Teresa May, similar to Margaret Thatchers decision to cease the distribution of school milk.

 

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11 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Correct it's not racist or xenophobic to be concerned about the number of people coming into the U.K.  But what I cannot get my head around, why is Teresa May so intent on making it so difficult for her fellow citizens to bring their own wives into the country. Could this spitefull decision haunt Teresa May, similar to Margaret Thatchers decision to cease the distribution of school milk.

 

It probably should but I doubt it will. All Teresa May wants to do is get the numbers down. There are not enough of us to worry her.

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13 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

I feel that the UK has turned a corner since the referendum. People are now much more comfortable about saying that immigration should be stopped.

I had my haircut the other day and the barber was telling me how he was looking forward to Polish people being deported after we leave the EU. I have known him quite a few years and never heard that kind of comment before. I was a bit gobsmacked. I also feel that there is growing ill-feeling toward expats - resentment toward expats coming back to the UK to use the NHS... Public opinion is certainly changing very rapidly and there is definitely an appetite for very stringent immigration controls - from EU and non-EU.

I would say its more of a U turn. As in many cases of misdiagnosis, immigration has been taken as the root cause rather than a symptom.

People blame immigration for GP waiting times when in fact it is more to do with a lack of resources.

People blame immigration for a lack of housing when in fact it is more to do with housing policy.

People blame immigration for issues over skilled jobs when in fact it was more to do with a lack of training.

The common factor is a lack of forward thinking and investment by successive governments over the years. If previous governments had paid more attention to essential services we wouldn't be in this mess and immigration would not be the albatross around the government's neck.

 

We now have a government that is prepared to waste billions and increase the national debt by an unknown amount in an attempt to remove this perceived curse of immigration.

They have yet to tell us how much they spent trying to bypass parliament.

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2 hours ago, nontabury said:

Correct it's not racist or xenophobic to be concerned about the number of people coming into the U.K.  But what I cannot get my head around, why is Teresa May so intent on making it so difficult for her fellow citizens to bring their own wives into the country. Could this spitefull decision haunt Teresa May, similar to Margaret Thatchers decision to cease the distribution of school milk.

 

It would appear that Teresa May is out to try and reduce the criticism she has had over her failure to reduce the numbers during her time as home secretary.

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Well said, Sandy.

 

May's loathsome exploitation of the incipient racism now manifested openly since the referendum is of course laid bare as a cheap political means of enhancing her power. But folk want this, it excuses them from dealing with inconvenient truths and makes it easier to wallow in bigotry.

So often we hear that it is the EU migration that has driven down wages and affected productivity, and strained our infrastructure. The NHS would be crippled without migration but the low wages were not imposed by them but by government policy restricting pay rises to 1% per annum. PWC have estimated there are over 50,000 EU nationals working in London's finance sector - have our own indigenous bankers been impoverished as a consequence ?

 

As someone said a few years back, it's alles der fault of der Juden, Ja! 

 

Whipping up discrimination against minorities to boost cheap nationalism is hardly new.

 

 

Edited by Seekingasylum
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38 minutes ago, Seekingasylum said:

Well said, Sandy.

 

May's loathsome exploitation of the incipient racism now manifested openly since the referendum is of course laid bare as a cheap political means of enhancing her power. But folk want this, it excuses them from dealing with inconvenient truths and makes it easier to wallow in bigotry.

So often we hear that it is the EU migration that has driven down wages and affected productivity, and strained our infrastructure. The NHS would be crippled without migration but the low wages were not imposed by them but by government policy restricting pay rises to 1% per annum. PWC have estimated there are over 50,000 EU nationals working in London's finance sector - have our own indigenous bankers been impoverished as a consequence ?

 

As someone said a few years back, it's alles der fault of der Juden, Ja! 

 

Whipping up discrimination against minorities to boost cheap nationalism is hardly new.

 

 

Rubish it's nothing to do with racialism. It's about restricting the rights of British citizens,who may wish to bring their spouse into the country. 

As for 50,000 well paid Europeans in the City of London, how can you compare them to the 100,000's of low paid Europeans who are forcing down the wages of the lower paid. 

 P.s. Do bankers and the like ever suffer. Or is it only the lower paid.

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Let's please try and keep this thread civil, there's really no need to insult each other, the British electorate or even the politicians who are trying to persuade us how to vote.
If you aren't prepared to be civil may I suggest you vent your spleen elsewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

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On 20/05/2017 at 1:43 AM, nontabury said:

Correct it's not racist or xenophobic to be concerned about the number of people coming into the U.K.  But what I cannot get my head around, why is Teresa May so intent on making it so difficult for her fellow citizens to bring their own wives into the country. Could this spitefull decision haunt Teresa May, similar to Margaret Thatchers decision to cease the distribution of school milk.

 

I doubt very much this will hault May. There are far too few British men or women with no EU partners for anybody to care. Equate the numbers to the 3 million odd East European migrants. Non of them can vote but they are far more important the the relative handfull of British voters with non EU partners.

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On 19/05/2017 at 1:43 PM, HauptmannUK said:

I feel that the UK has turned a corner since the referendum. People are now much more comfortable about saying that immigration should be stopped.

I had my haircut the other day and the barber was telling me how he was looking forward to Polish people being deported after we leave the EU. I have known him quite a few years and never heard that kind of comment before. I was a bit gobsmacked. I also feel that there is growing ill-feeling toward expats - resentment toward expats coming back to the UK to use the NHS... Public opinion is certainly changing very rapidly and there is definitely an appetite for very stringent immigration controls - from EU and non-EU.

What has that got to do with settlement visas for non EU partners. If you banned every single settlement visa application to a British citizen how would that impact overall immigration, 1 or 2%. But weigh that against the votes gained from those with an ignorant perception, even so called educated people. Reminds me very much of the Conservatives assault on single parents back in the Thatcher era, until Cecil Parkinson knocked up his secretary.

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How typical on the BBC, there are 7.5 million voters who can't cant vote for a femaile candidate http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40011733.

I am concerned that there is no candidate in my constituency that gives two hoots for voters with non EU partners and the BBC is telling me that I can't vote for a woman. What is there was a female candidate but she was a Conservative?

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On ‎22‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 4:21 PM, Trevor1809 said:

Equate the numbers to the 3 million odd East European migrants

As EEA migrants exercising a treaty right are not obliged to obtain any sort of visa or residency card, it is impossible to count them accurately; whether they be EEA migrants in the UK or British migrants in other EEA countries.

 

So all figures are estimates, often based upon passenger surveys, NI number applications or similar, but most estimates put the figure at around 3.5 million.

 

But whatever the figure, they are not all from Eastern Europe!

 

The latest figures (2015) I can find show that the top ten nationalities of EEA migrants to the UK are, in descending order:-

  1. Poland
  2. Republic of Ireland
  3. Romania
  4. Portugal
  5. Italy 
  6. Lithuania
  7. France
  8. Germany
  9. Spain
  10. Latvia

So, out of the top ten, only 4 are Eastern European.

 

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On ‎20‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 4:04 AM, Seekingasylum said:

 

May's loathsome exploitation of the incipient racism now manifested openly since the referendum is of course laid bare as a cheap political means of enhancing her power.

When May, as Home Secretary, first announced her targets for reducing net migration, did Labour criticise her or those targets?

 

No, and they have not criticised her targets since.

 

What they have done, though, is criticise her many times for not hitting her targets!

 

Corbyn has also promised to reduce net migration. The only difference being that he refuses to say how he is going to do it. In the unlikely event of him winning the election, I suspect that, like May, he will first go for the easy target; families. It wont reduce the figures by much, but he, like May, can claim to be doing something.

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When May, as Home Secretary, first announced her targets for reducing net migration, did Labour criticise her or those targets?
 
No, and they have not criticised her targets since.
 
What they have done, though, is criticise her many times for not hitting her targets!
 
Corbyn has also promised to reduce net migration. The only difference being that he refuses to say how he is going to do it. In the unlikely event of him winning the election, I suspect that, like May, he will first go for the easy target; families. It wont reduce the figures by much, but he, like May, can claim to be doing something.

I thought I'd read that Corbyn had said that a government led by him would remove the financial requirements so as not to penalise poor families. I agree should it come to it, I doubt they would. And, anyway, the chance of Labour winning is nil (more's the pity).
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50 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:


I thought I'd read that Corbyn had said that a government led by him would remove the financial requirements so as not to penalise poor families. I agree should it come to it, I doubt they would. And, anyway, the chance of Labour winning is nil (more's the pity).

 

Labour's manifesto does, indeed, say on page 28

Quote

 We will replace income thresholds with a prohibition on recourse to public funds

Which means nothing; this prohibition existed before July 2012 and still exists today!

 

Further on that page it says

Quote

Working together we will institute a new system which is based on our economic needs, balancing controls and existing entitlements. This may include employer sponsorship, work permits, visa regulations or a tailored mix of all these which works for the many, not the few

 

So what does it mean? A return to the pre July 2012 system of adequate maintenance? I hope so; but Labour have no stated policies at all on how they will deal with family immigration and the manifesto 'promises' are pure waffle.

 

Which means that if they are elected, they can do what they like, even if that is nothing at all!

 

Remember, it was Labour who started us down the road of making family immigration more difficult and more expensive.

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