Thailand Unveils Solar-powered Bus

[The Coder]

I am all for research and development into smarter ways of doing things and fascinated by alternative energy. The problem is there is a big gap between claims and the reality of such technology in thailand. For instance, they announced they were making solar homes. The details turned out to be they generated only enough power to run a single light bulb and a 14" TV for a small number of hours. I am not sure how that would raise the quality of life for households that does not have power or be acceptable for households that do. There was another example that thailand had developed a more efficient solar cell in the lab compared to the efficiency of what was on the market. Only problem is, it was not manufacturable so they manufacture technology that lags behind the market all the while boasting they have better technology. This bus is just another example. If you could glue a few solar cells on top of a bus and have a solar powered bus everyone would be doing it. The press releases are flowery and what people want to hear, but it just doesn't work.

What I understand about solar electricity is when you look at it objectively, it doesn't save money and it isn't enivornmentally friendly. Panels and batteries are bad for the environment, expensive to make, and need thrown away and replaced periodically. The only real advantage is it can be used to generate off grid power. The reason to buy solar today is that hopefully the money will be used to research it more so that the technology can improve. It's been theat way for as long as I can remember and I don't know that a crossing point will be in our lifetime.

[Naam]

I am all for research and development into smarter ways of doing things and fascinated by alternative energy. The problem is there is a big gap between claims and the reality of such technology in thailand.

not only in Thailand but worldwide!

[Naam]

Thailand unveils solar-powered bus

The six-wheel bus has 20 passenger seats and is seven metres in length. Installed with 10 solar cell panels 1.5 x 0.66 metres on its roof, the cells produce a maximum capacity of 1,200 watts, while the unit is coupled with a 6-volt battery.

Especially designed for passenger service in city zone, the vehicle has a maximum speed of 60 kilometres per hour, an 18,000 BTU air conditioning system, and a radio and TV system.

an 18k btu/h aircon system has >1,500 watts power consumption.

[Diablo Bob]

Last night after reading this thread, it got me curious about what exactly is happening in solar research and in particular electric buses, so it was onto the internet to do some quick research.

I was surprised!

I am in agreement that the specifications being presented are in err, but not by much......

The propulsion systems being used today for electric buses have been around for decades, developed in part by the railroads which use Diesel/Electric to move massive trains.

The question in my mind is what exactly is the reasoning behind the solar panels? It isn't to power the propulsion systems since they are not efficient enough to provide the required power. The only reasonable answer is for charging of a main battery source. In my readings I found the following excerpt:

"For example, to meet New York City Transit Authority’s performance and range requirements in an electric transit bus using today’s lead-acid batteries would require approximately 9,000 kg of batteries. The curb weight plus the leadacid battery pack would exceed the gross vehicles weight of the bus, with zero passengers on board. At the same time, the conventional electric propulsion system using only the high-energy density zinc-air

battery package in the available space under the floor will not fully meet the power and acceleration

goals for the New York City Transit Authority transit bus.

The all-electric hybrid propulsion system for powering buses (and other heavy-duty trucks and utility

vehicles) has the unique ability to operate for a full day’s uninterrupted service at the same power and

performance levels as a conventional diesel powered vehicle.

The main Electric Fuel zinc-air battery is designed for energy carrying capacity, reaching an extremely

high specific energy (>200 Wh/kg). The battery is based on individual cell units electrically connected

in series and packaged in a plastic modules that provides electrical connection plus reaction air and

cooling air to each battery cell. Six of these zinc-air battery modules mounted on a tray allow quick

battery exchange from/to the all-electric transit bus. A total of three battery trays of zinc-air batteries

(total of 18 battery modules) comprise the energy storage portion for the transit bus. This battery

provides approximately 314 kWh of on-board energy, and weighs in at less than 1600 kg."

The full report is here: http://www.electric-fuel.com/evtech/papers/paper11-1-98.pdf

Ok, Great, but does it work in the real world?

Only time will tell, but to see how far the research has come in the past decade including full size models and actual use of buses in the real world, you might try looking here: http://www.electricdrive.org/index.php?tg=...&topics=106

So to make my long story a little shorter, the following observations:

1) Is a solar powered bus possible today or in the near future? No, the key word being powered.

2) Is an electrically powered bus possible? Yes

3) And the use of the solar panels? To assist in recharging the battery systems and extend the range of the vehicle.

Just a thought........

[Tywais]

I'm one of the members of a fuel cell research group at CMU and agree that the power rating has to be either to run peripherals or to charge the batteries. No where near enough to run a full size city bus. An example of a Prius fitted with solar panels:

"Can a PV Prius obtain all of its fuel from Solar?

The answer to this question is a definite yes providing that the stock Prius, in addition to having the solar modifications described in the previous section, increase the size of the secondary battery and the DC-DC converter used to deliver solar energy to the NiMH battery. Using a maximum depth of discharge of 50% to provide some reserve power and extend the cycle life of the enhanced Lead Acid battery, the capacity would have to be increased from its present 3 kWh rating to 8 kWh." Source: PV Prius

More information > Battery Electric Vehicles

We built an electric bicycle at the uni initally using batteries to test the control system and will attach a fuel cell (Hydrogen/Oxygen) to it later. The bicycle has a 250 Watt motor to drive it. A movie of it in operation can be seen here: Bicycle - .mpg 4.5Mb

Also, CMU had an electric bus project to shuttle students around the campus around 2003-2005 though they were small/light framed were fairly popular.

"Rot Fai Fa Nakorn Ping Co., Ltd. has announced that they have found the electric buses in Chiang Mai University to have been most popular and successful. The University is currently negotiating for more as they are in high demand. The Chiang Mai Municipality are also very interested in these electric buses and will begin an experiment whereby municipality staff will park their cars at Tesco Kamtieng market and be transported to their municipal office by electric buses. This is to set an example for the people of Chiang Mai and to help out with rush hour traffic.However, last months' announcement from the municipality about electric trams appears to have been shelved so we shall wait and see whether this project will come to fruition. " Source Chiangmai News

[drummer]

"A guy in California this last year made an electric car that drives like a bat out of hel_l putting laptop batteries in series and in parrellel. "

Let's hope he didn't use SONY laptop batteries!

rofl

[Who, me ?]

so, will it work or not ???

[Diablo Bob]

so, will it work or not ???

Loaded question!!!

Electric buses do work...

Solar panels do work...

Will this bus as designed work? Who knows!

[pumpuiman]

Those solar cars you see are super light weight...with no "extras".....This bus doesn't seem probable.

[Naam]

so, will it work or not ???

Will this bus as designed work? Who knows!

of course it will work... passengers supplied each with 250 grams of pure black afghan will be able to fly at supersonic speed with this bus non-stop BKK-Lax and return without solar refuelling. that is... if they chew and swallow the stuff. just smoking won't help.

[Diablo Bob]

so, will it work or not ???

Will this bus as designed work? Who knows!

of course it will work... passengers supplied each with 250 grams of pure black afghan will be able to fly at supersonic speed with this bus non-stop BKK-Lax and return without solar refuelling. that is... if they chew and swallow the stuff. just smoking won't help.

Hey Doc, Can I get a perscription?