Thai Amphur Divorce Unacceptable To British Embassy

[topfield]

Seems absolutely crazy but a friend of mine applied for a marriage visa to bring his Thai fiancee to the UK to marry.

This friend had been married and had divorced his first Thai wife at an amphur a few years ago.

The Embassy has now informed my friend that they are unable to even consider the application as there is an immigration rule.....yes immigration rule.. that states that only if he divorces in the UK will they accept the current application. They also went on and on about whether his now divorced first wife is now outside the UK, a question he is unable to answer with certainty .

Surely the Embassy are completely out of line with this. How can the Embassy refuse to accept a valid amphur divorce ? When he approached the Registry of Marriages in the UK for confirmation that he is free to marry they said they cannot confirm or otherwise if this man is free to marry and clearly are not willing to get into a tussle with the Bangkok Embassy.

Any views or advice please for my friend on how to tackle this insane situation ?

[the scouser]

Ask the embassy to cite, in writing, the legislation upon which they're relying in their assertion that an amphur divorce per se is invalid. Evidently, there isn't any, and you can then go forward from there.

Scouse.

[GU22]

Where did he marry his first wife? Thailand or the UK?

I'm no lawyer, and may well be wrong, but I am sure I've read somewhere that if they married in the UK then they need to divorce in the UK too. Or at least register the divorce in the UK. If he hasn't done so then of course the Registry will be unable to confirm something they know nothing about.

Timescales are a factor here too. If the divorce was quite recent it is not unreasonable for them to enquire after the whereabouts of the first wife, especially if they divorced shortly after she obtained ILR.

It's worth noting that if married in Thailand and then divorced at the RTE in London the divorce will be valid under Thai law, but wont be under UK law.

Edited December 27, 2006 by GU22

[apetley]

Someone has their wires crossed at the Embassy!

A few weeks ago my sister in law (Thai) married her English boyfriend.

He was previously married to a Thai lady.

End of November he got an Amphur divorce from her in the morning. Same afternoon he got his Affirmation of Freedom to Marry document from the British Embassy.

Next day married at the same local Amphur.

Not very romantic but a piece of cake.

[GU22]

Had time for a bit of searching, didn't take much actually.

DSPs Chapter 13 Annex 1 overseas Divorces

Recognition of overseas divorces on or after 4 April 1988

Under the Family Law Act 1986 an overseas divorce obtained by means of proceedings is only recognised in the UK if:

it is valid in the country in which it was obtained;

at the relevant date, either party was either habitually resident or domiciled in that country or was a national of that country.

An overseas divorce obtained otherwise than by means of proceedings is recognised in the UK if:

it is valid in the country in which it was obtained;

at the relevant date, both parties were domiciled in that country or one was domiciled there and the other was domiciled in a country which recognised the divorce;

neither party had been habitually resident in the United Kingdom throughout the period of one year immediately preceding that date.

So, if an Ampur divorce is one by means of proceedings, in which case the wife being a Thai national makes it recognised by the UK. But, if it is a divorce otherwise than by means of proceedings then it is not recognised as both parties, presumably, were resident in the UK.

Naturally, if the divorce is not recognised by the UK then under UK law he is still married and so, under the immigration rules, cannot sponsor a fiance visa as to do so he must be free to marry or divorce proceedings should be well under way.

What he needs to do is find out if UK law does recognise his divorce and if not then he needs to get one sorted.

[topfield]

Ask the embassy to cite, in writing, the legislation upon which they're relying in their assertion that an amphur divorce per se is invalid. Evidently, there isn't any, and you can then go forward from there.

Scouse.

Thank you very much for your kind attention.

Trying to get hold of this supposed immigration rule , (NOT lthe law relating to recognition of divorce )..which indicates non recognition by the Embassy visa section of an Amphur divorce.

[And by the way the Registrar of Marriages based in Southport after consultation with the Thai Authorities some years back DO CONSIDER an amphur divorce as proceedings]

Sometimes one starts to wonder if these anonymous officials at the Embassy know what they are doing.

I say anonymous as recently it appears that written decisions are no longer signed by the person making them as was previously the case ! I wonder why ? Fear of reprisals ?

Now have a British friend who last year obtained a UK visit visa for his Thai wife after enormous problems. The man had to produce copious evidence that they were living in Nong Khai , building a house there and had not the slightest intention whatsoever of staying in the UK. Even a letter from a local policeman was demanded by the Embassy and produced to prove permanent residence in Thailand by the couple.

A year on, the wife has decided the money she can earn in England is so many times more than she earns in Nong Khai she wants to live and work in the UK . The wife has agreed to grant the husband a divorce without payment if he can get a settlement visa giving her the right to work legally. A visit visa excludes employment. He will live in Thailand

Now how can the Embassy grant a settlement visa when there numerous documents on file many signed by the husband himself stating they have no intention whatsoever of staying in the UK ?

Well it worked ! Just two days after submitting the application the Embassy have agreed to issue a settlement visa to the wife ! One really wonders about the quality of the staff at the Bangkok Embassy who seem to make fraud as easy as pie but turn down genuine applicants

[Rinrada]

Suppose with half a million "illegals" already over here and the Gov committed to trying to catch and DEPORT ALL of them ...the old Embassy is just being a bit prudent in separating the the wool from the chaff....nowt personel....but ...all those FREE one way tics.....peng

[topfield]

Ask the embassy to cite, in writing, the legislation upon which they're relying in their assertion that an amphur divorce per se is invalid. Evidently, there isn't any, and you can then go forward from there.

Scouse.

[TO ADMIN : BELOW DID NOT APPEAR IN LIST OF REPLIES SO NOW REPEATED ( ESPECIALLY FOR SCOUSER AS A REPLY TO HIS QUESTION) }

Thank you very much for your kind attention.

Trying to get hold of this supposed immigration rule , (NOT lthe law relating to recognition of divorce )..which indicates non recognition by the Embassy visa section of an Amphur divorce.

[And by the way the Registrar of Marriages based in Southport after consultation with the Thai Authorities some years back DO CONSIDER an amphur divorce as proceedings]

Sometimes one starts to wonder if these anonymous officials at the Embassy know what they are doing.

I say anonymous as recently it appears that written decisions are no longer signed by the person making them as was previously the case ! I wonder why ? Fear of reprisals ?

Now have a British friend who last year obtained a UK visit visa for his Thai wife after enormous problems. The man had to produce copious evidence that they were living in Nong Khai , building a house there and had not the slightest intention whatsoever of staying in the UK. Even a letter from a local policeman was demanded by the Embassy and produced to prove permanent residence in Thailand by the couple.

A year on, the wife has decided the money she can earn in England is so many times more than she earns in Nong Khai she wants to live and work in the UK . The wife has agreed to grant the husband a divorce without payment if he can get a settlement visa giving her the right to work legally. A visit visa excludes employment. He will live in Thailand

Now how can the Embassy grant a settlement visa when there numerous documents on file many signed by the husband himself stating they have no intention whatsoever of staying in the UK ?

Well it worked ! Just two days after submitting the application the Embassy have agreed to issue a settlement visa to the wife ! One really wonders about the quality of the staff at the Bangkok Embassy who seem to make fraud as easy as pie but turn down genuine applicants

[GU22]

Trying to get hold of this supposed immigration rule , (NOT lthe law relating to recognition of divorce )..which indicates non recognition by the Embassy visa section of an Amphur divorce.

In order to grant a fiance visa the ECO has to be satisfied that (among other requirements) the marriage will take place within the 6 months validity of the visa. Obviously, if one of the partners is not free to marry then this cannot happen, although they are allowed a certain amount of discretion if divorce proceedings are well under way. See DSPs Chapter 13 13.9 - Evidence required for fiancé(e) and proposed civil partnership applications.

All the decisions made by the ECOs are based upon the immigration rules. It is not up to them to decide if your friend's divorce is valid in the UK or not, but if it isn't then under the immigration rules they have to refuse. If there is doubt the onus is on the applicant to provide the required evidence.

Obviously an Ampur divorce is recognised the UK, otherwise a lot of Thai husbands/wives would not be in the UK, including mine. However, if your friend married his first wife in the UK the question is whether UK law would recognise the marriage being ended by an Ampur divorce in Thailand. If they married in Thailand then the question is whether it is valid due to their being UK residents for the 12 months preceding.

I think he needs to ask a lawyer these questions. However, without seeing the actual refusal notice then all this is conjecture. Have you seen the refusal notice, or is all this hearsay?

The wife has agreed to grant the husband a divorce without payment if he can get a settlement visa giving her the right to work legally. A visit visa excludes employment. He will live in Thailand

Now how can the Embassy grant a settlement visa when there numerous documents on file many signed by the husband himself stating they have no intention whatsoever of staying in the UK?

Well it worked ! Just two days after submitting the application the Embassy have agreed to issue a settlement visa to the wife ! One really wonders about the quality of the staff at the Bangkok Embassy who seem to make fraud as easy as pie but turn down genuine applicants

Peoples intentions and plans change. I am sure that there are many here who would, rightly, be outraged if this were a genuine couple and were refused a settlement visa on the grounds that they once applied for, and got, a visit visa, saying that they did not intend at that time to reside in the UK.

However, the situation you have described is fraud. The ECOs can only base their decision on the information before them. If that information is fraudulent, but appaers genuine, then that is not their fault. From what you have said both this man and his wife have committed perjury and obtained a visa by deception.

When the time comes for her to apply for ILR she and the husband will again have to provide false evidence of them living together in the UK and make false declarations to that effect. Even if they manage this and she gets her ILR this could be revoked if she were to divorce him soon afterwards.

Maybe you should consider reporting their fraud to the embassy, or if she is already in the UK to the Home Office.

[the scouser]

One thing that is not clear is who exactly has decided that Topfield's mate's divorce is not valid under UK law? Topfield states that is was the embassy, in which case did they either return all the documents, including the fee, stating that they weren't going to consider the application, or did they formally refuse the visa? Alternatively, was it a shiny-arsed clerk at the visa application centre who independently decided that amphur divorces are not valid in UK law, and informed the applicant accordingly? If the embassy, then the applicant needs to establish upon what legislation they are basing their decision, and, if the VAC, the applicant needs to let the shiny-arsed clerk know that it's not his/her call to make.

Scouse.

[GU22]

I've done a bit more research, and my previous suspicion regarding the validity of an Ampur divorce if married in the UK has been confirmed.

An Ampur divorce, commonly referred to as an ‘administrative divorce’ or a ‘divorce by consent’, is recognised by the UK as a valid divorce, provided it is recognised as valid under Thai law.

From Divorce and the Consequences of Divorce - a Beginner's Guide to the Law (Thailand-UK.com)

An ‘administrative divorce’, is only available if (Chapter VI of the Code):

the marriage itself took place in Thailand;

both the husband and wife ‘consent’ to the divorce by mutual consent;

agreement has been reached as to who shall exercise ‘parental power’ over any children;

agreement has been reached on the ancillary matters (including the level of maintenance payable for any children and the distribution of the matrimonial assets);

both the husband and wife attend ‘together’ at the Amphur to register the divorce; and

the divorce is certified by the signatures “of at least 2 witnesses”.

If any of these factors are missing, then divorce proceedings will have to be commenced through the Thai (or British) courts. Divorce proceedings may only be commenced through the court in Thailand if one party to the marriage is resident in Thailand at the time the divorce petition is presented to the court. Subject to the residency requirement, a divorce through the Thai court is possible even if the parties were married in the UK.

So, if this gentleman married his first wife in the UK and then divorced her at an Ampur in Thailand the divorce is not valid under Thai law and so is not recognised by the UK. He is still married to his first wife and so should start divorce proceedings in either a Thai or UK court, as appropriate depending on where they are both resident.

However, if he married his first wife in Thailand then the Ampur divorce is valid, and so he is divorced in the eyes of both Thai and UK law and so should be able to sponsor a fiance visa for his girlfriend.

Topfield, the important question here is; where did he marry his first wife, the UK or Thailand?

If he married her in Thailand and applied for a spouse visa for her then this will be on record at the embassy and so they should know, or be able to find out, that he was married in Thailand so therefore the Ampur divorce is valid.

But, if he applied for a fiance visa for her then they will also know this and that he married her in the UK and so the Ampur divorce is not valid.

[topfield]

I've done a bit more research, and my previous suspicion regarding the validity of an Ampur divorce if married in the UK has been confirmed.

An Ampur divorce, commonly referred to as an ‘administrative divorce’ or a ‘divorce by consent’, is recognised by the UK as a valid divorce, provided it is recognised as valid under Thai law.

From Divorce and the Consequences of Divorce - a Beginner's Guide to the Law (Thailand-UK.com)

An ‘administrative divorce’, is only available if (Chapter VI of the Code):

the marriage itself took place in Thailand;

both the husband and wife ‘consent’ to the divorce by mutual consent;

agreement has been reached as to who shall exercise ‘parental power’ over any children;

agreement has been reached on the ancillary matters (including the level of maintenance payable for any children and the distribution of the matrimonial assets);

both the husband and wife attend ‘together’ at the Amphur to register the divorce; and

the divorce is certified by the signatures “of at least 2 witnesses”.

If any of these factors are missing, then divorce proceedings will have to be commenced through the Thai (or British) courts. Divorce proceedings may only be commenced through the court in Thailand if one party to the marriage is resident in Thailand at the time the divorce petition is presented to the court. Subject to the residency requirement, a divorce through the Thai court is possible even if the parties were married in the UK.

So, if this gentleman married his first wife in the UK and then divorced her at an Ampur in Thailand the divorce is not valid under Thai law and so is not recognised by the UK. He is still married to his first wife and so should start divorce proceedings in either a Thai or UK court, as appropriate depending on where they are both resident.

However, if he married his first wife in Thailand then the Ampur divorce is valid, and so he is divorced in the eyes of both Thai and UK law and so should be able to sponsor a fiance visa for his girlfriend.

Topfield, the important question here is; where did he marry his first wife, the UK or Thailand?

If he married her in Thailand and applied for a spouse visa for her then this will be on record at the embassy and so they should know, or be able to find out, that he was married in Thailand so therefore the Ampur divorce is valid.

But, if he applied for a fiance visa for her then they will also know this and that he married her in the UK and so the Ampur divorce is not valid.

REPLY

Yes, the couple were married in Thailand so fullfils all legal requirements and the Amphur divorce therefore valid.

So what to do when you have a stupid idiot of a Thai woman official at the Visa section who knows nothing about the UK law and insists ALL amphur divorces are invalid ? Worse of all the Entry Clearance Manager is backing his officer completely !

Don't the fools realise the horrific consequences of deciding amphur divorces are invalid ? Thousands of marriages now considered bigamous, hundreds of children bastardised /disinherited and thousands of Thai wives in the UK have their settlement visas declared illegal and must be deported as never legally married so not entitled to a settlement visa . !!!!!!!!!!

Edited December 29, 2006 by topfield

[Ollie]

Wow, a real sense of deja-vu picking up on this forum from my own expriences that had a happy ending a couple of months ago!

I think the OP is asking the wrong questions of the wrong people. As Scouse said, your friend should get the reason in writing and take it from there.

Just puzzled why he isn't here himself and wonder, without meaning to be rude, if you have the full picture?

There's nowt worse than Chinese whispers.

The problems you are relaying seem to go against the grain of just about all others experiences, just wonder if there is another reason for that?

[GU22]

Exactly, Ollie.

Of course the embassy will recognise a legal Thai divorce, and we have now established that the divorce was legal under Thai law.

We are not being told the whole story here, and so any comments made are pure conjecture.

Topfield, do you know this person and have you had the story direct from him, or is he a friend of a friend of a friend of a................?

If you know him personally then ask him to show you the refusal notice so you can post here exactly what was said to him. We can then advise properly on his next step.

However, if all you have is rumour or gossip, then please explain how posting such here is of benefit to anyone.

[topfield]

Exactly, Ollie.

Of course the embassy will recognise a legal Thai divorce, and we have now established that the divorce was legal under Thai law.

We are not being told the whole story here, and so any comments made are pure conjecture.

Topfield, do you know this person and have you had the story direct from him, or is he a friend of a friend of a friend of a................?

If you know him personally then ask him to show you the refusal notice so you can post here exactly what was said to him. We can then advise properly on his next step.

However, if all you have is rumour or gossip, then please explain how posting such here is of benefit to anyone.

Please do not be so suspicious GU22 ! This is an actual matter currently being dealt with by the Embassy . Why should anyone think to make a false or incorrect posting ?

I cannot reveal the Embassy official's name for obvious reasons but can say it is a Thai lady with a very well known illustrious Thai family surname.

Clearly she is highly educated but clearly she knows nothing about the law and practice of the subject . She maintains Amphur divorces are not recognised in the UK and has even quoted Section 2.2.2. of Part 2 of the Family Law Act 1986 concerning marriage where there have been no proceedings !

The gentleman sponsoring the lady is in fact a highly placed UK civil servant.

Most astonishing is that the E.C. Manager is backing his officer 100 percent..or at least this is what she said.

Most annoying is that this Thai lady official at the Embassy has been asked several times to please call the Registrar of Marriages in Southport who will confirm that an Amphur marriage is recognised and acceptable but she has refused to call. Her take is : This is a Home Office matter

( which its not and the Home Office dont want to get involved)

What to do next ? Advice plse

[Ollie]

Why am I intrigued by this and why do I doubt it?

It matters not one iota that your friend is a highly placed UK civil servant, whatever that means? And if he is, one would asume he would have half a degree of sense and not have to pedal tales via a mate here to further his cause!!

If he is so highly placed, why doesn't he get off his backside and get done what the Embassy say is needed? Why doesn't he get onto Southport or wherever?

Much to my astonishment, I am classed as a senior manager in the public service, and whilst I took advice here, which was invaluable, I did research elsewhere and when needed, got on to the embassy in Bkk with my gripe, who I found most helpful and co-operative.

[topfield]

Why am I intrigued by this and why do I doubt it?

It matters not one iota that your friend is a highly placed UK civil servant, whatever that means? And if he is, one would asume he would have half a degree of sense and not have to pedal tales via a mate here to further his cause!!

If he is so highly placed, why doesn't he get off his backside and get done what the Embassy say is needed? Why doesn't he get onto Southport or wherever?

Much to my astonishment, I am classed as a senior manager in the public service, and whilst I took advice here, which was invaluable, I did research elsewhere and when needed, got on to the embassy in Bkk with my gripe, who I found most helpful and co-operative.

REPLY

Astonishing !

Firstly there are people like GU22 criticising the vagueness of the postings [ this is an ongoing matter with certain confidentiality required ] and questioning the truth of the postings and now someone ie ollie says : why mention that a senior civil servant was involved . Seems you can't satisfy all the people all the time. Either some detail is given or it's not

As to accusations by ollie of pedalling a cause.....what cause ? This subject/website is about sharing ones knowledge and experiences, not furthering any cause. The facts as laid out are clear. A certain official at the British Embassy has suddenly decided that all Amphur marriages are not recognised under UK law. That Thai lady officer is WRONG . Not only are Amphur marriages legal but as shown by a posting two days ago from a man whose Amphur marriage was accepted only last week at the Embassy, are recognised by other officers at the very same Embassy !

You ask why this man does not get off his backside and sort the problem out. My friend, this is exactly what he is doing . All departments mentioned are currently being contacted ! The aim is share experiences and to provide you with all info and and a blow by blow account of new developments as they occur.

Edited December 30, 2006 by topfield

[Ollie]

Well, I'll wait with baited breath to learn that the Thai lady official was wrong, as we all seem to accept.

It might be useful to know what the ECO thought?

Its just that what you have posted is either the most glaring miscarriage of justice since Noddy got done for being racist, or was it something prejudicial against men with big ears? Or else something has gone missing in the telling?

I'll call back in a weeks time to learn the verdict.

[topfield]

Well, I'll wait with baited breath to learn that the Thai lady official was wrong, as we all seem to accept.

It might be useful to know what the ECO thought?

Its just that what you have posted is either the most glaring miscarriage of justice since Noddy got done for being racist, or was it something prejudicial against men with big ears? Or else something has gone missing in the telling?

I'll call back in a weeks time to learn the verdict.

reply : Good question : what did the ECO think ? With the reorganisation of the visa section one cannot know anymore who deals with applications [where there is/has been no interview.]

Nobody even knows if ECO 's deal with applications any more as this lady's title is

" Correspondence and Casework Officer " !!

[GU22]

All decisions on visas are made by ECOs and all the ECOs are British.

I am criticising the vagueness of the postings as there is too little information, and what there is has been released in dribs and drabs, if you want advice and help for your friend then we need the whole story, including exactly what has been said to him.

The caseworker is correct, it is not up to a registry office to decide the validity or otherwise of an overseas divorce, it is a Home Office matter.

From what you have said, and getting that information has been like pulling teeth, the disputed point seems to be whether an Ampur divorce is a divorce by proceedings or not. As explained earlier, an overseas divorce obtained otherwise than by means of proceedings is recognised in the UK if:

1. It is valid in the country in which it was obtained;

2. At the relevant date, both parties were domiciled in that country or one was domiciled there and the other was domiciled in a country which recognised the divorce;

3. Neither party had been habitually resident in the United Kingdom throughout the period of one year immediately preceding that date.

Point 1 is obviously fine, an Ampur divorce is valid in Thailand; but what about points 2 and 3? Where were your friend and his first wife resident for the 12 months preceding the divorce.

What your friend needs to do is get on to the Home Office, but it seems that your purpose isn't to get help for your friend, but merely to bitch about the embassy staff!

[topfield]

Seems absolutely crazy but a friend of mine applied for a marriage visa to bring his Thai fiancee to the UK to marry.

This friend had been married and had divorced his first Thai wife at an amphur a few years ago.

The Embassy has now informed my friend that they are unable to even consider the application as there is an immigration rule.....yes immigration rule.. that states that only if he divorces in the UK will they accept the current application. They also went on and on about whether his now divorced first wife is now outside the UK, a question he is unable to answer with certainty .

Surely the Embassy are completely out of line with this. How can the Embassy refuse to accept a valid amphur divorce ? When he approached the Registry of Marriages in the UK for confirmation that he is free to marry they said they cannot confirm or otherwise if this man is free to marry and clearly are not willing to get into a tussle with the Bangkok Embassy.

Any views or advice please for my friend on how to tackle this insane situation ?

Reply to posting of GU22 dated 31/12/06

Sir,

Thank you for your frankness GU22 but I am afraid you seem to use this website purely to criticize others in a very personal manner when the aim of this site is to impart information and share one’s experiences . . Just as importantly you are clearly not legally qualified nor do you have an understanding of the law and practice of this subject. Sadly you do not seem able to understand that when a case is ongoing one has to use full discretion in the publishing of confidential information. Only after a case has been fully resolved can full details be published on a publicly accessed website.

I am afraid you are also totally unaware that it IS the Registrar of Marriages who decides whether a marriage can take place in England & Wales and it is Registrars who issue Certificates of Non Impediment. In addition the Registrar in Southport who decides whether divorce in a particular country fulfils the Family Law Act requirements as to there having been “proceedings”.

In the case of Thailand the Registrar decided after full consultation with the Thai Justice Ministry that an Amphur divorce DOES qualify in this regard.

Most annoying is that you have been told many times that the divorce meets ALL the listed legal requirements but you still ask again and again the same questions regarding those requirements.

You have also seen a posting where a gentleman in the same position wrote a posting here to say his Amphur divorce had been recognized by the Embassy just weeks ago but don’t seem to take that in and that the Embassy’s wires must be crossed .

Finally I am sure the Administrator would agree that this column is not provided for people to make personal attacks on others that post their views and knowledge and I can only hope you can follow this

NB For your information all information given in this posting has been provided directly from the Government departments concerned and yes I am on the roll of Solicitors of the Supreme Court of England & Wales.

Topfield

[Ollie]

A solicitor that semingly condones, or at best, fails to report fraud, eh (see post 27/12)? Well, in my personal experience, you're not the first and you won't be the last. Nice to see you are living up to my expectations of your (alleged) profession!

DNFTT.

Edited December 31, 2006 by Ollie

[topfield]

A solicitor that semingly condones, or at best, fails to report fraud, eh (see post 27/12)? Well, in my personal experience, you're not the first and you won't be the last. Nice to see you are living up to my expectations of your (alleged) profession!

Dear Ollie,

Have you not heard about lawyers' confidentiality ? In any case not relevant as the matter refered to involved nobody but the husband, his wife and the Embassy. No help was sought from anyone. nor was any help given . Nobody condoned anything !

One does not go round reporting friends and acquaintances who relate their stories and experiences concerning Embassies and the relationships between husband and wife .

Also as mentioned the couple had submitted copious evidence that they had no wish, desire or aim to settle in the UK . All the official had to do was read the file on his/her desk and use a little common sense. Clearly that was not don in this case .

[Ollie]

A solicitor that semingly condones, or at best, fails to report fraud, eh (see post 27/12)? Well, in my personal experience, you're not the firs t and you won't be the last. Nice to see you are living up to my expectations of your (alleged) profession!

Dear Ollie,

Have you not heard about lawat worst. yers' confidentiality ? In any case not relevant as the matter refered to involved nobody but the husband, his wife and the Embassy. No help was sought from anyone. nor was any help given . Nobody condoned anything !

One does not go round reporting friends and acquaintances who relate their stories and experiences concerning Embassies and the relationships between husband and wife .

Also as mentioned the couple had submitted copious evidence that they had no wish, desire or aim to settle in the UK . All the official had to do was read the file on his/her desk and use a little common sense. Clearly that was not don in this case .

Jeez, what a pain, my original post died a death!

I can assure you that I am only too well aware of the language solicitors choose to use when it suits them. But this thread isn't one of them. Why the sudden change in tack? The language used? And why on earth are you floundering around on this site for advice, drip feeding a bit here, a bit there, when you now announce to one and all that you are the jack of this and master of the other - just go and do it then and stop wasting our time!!

Yours insults to others are tiresome at best and wearying at worst and offensive. But hey, thats how you ply your trade. At least you seem educated?

Now, how about you go and earn your living and stop wasting the thime of others?

DNFTT (reminder to self - )

[percy2]

Seems absolutely crazy but a friend of mine applied for a marriage visa to bring his Thai fiancee to the UK to marry.

This friend had been married and had divorced his first Thai wife at an amphur a few years ago.

The Embassy has now informed my friend that they are unable to even consider the application as there is an immigration rule.....yes immigration rule.. that states that only if he divorces in the UK will they accept the current application. They also went on and on about whether his now divorced first wife is now outside the UK, a question he is unable to answer with certainty .

Surely the Embassy are completely out of line with this. How can the Embassy refuse to accept a valid amphur divorce ? When he approached the Registry of Marriages in the UK for confirmation that he is free to marry they said they cannot confirm or otherwise if this man is free to marry and clearly are not willing to get into a tussle with the Bangkok Embassy.

Any views or advice please for my friend on how to tackle this insane situation ?

The gentleman sponsoring the lady is in fact a highly placed UK civil servant.

an overseas divorce obtained otherwise than by means of proceedings is recognised in the UK if:

1. It is valid in the country in which it was obtained;

2. At the relevant date, both parties were domiciled in that country or one was domiciled there and the other was domiciled in a country which recognised the divorce;

3. Neither party had been habitually resident in the United Kingdom throughout the period of one year immediately preceding that date.

Seems the Embassy decision may not be completey wrong, based on the information they have been given.

Seems like both may have been habitually resident in the United Kingdom throughout the period of one year immediately preceding that date.

Cheers

[GU22]

Topfield,

If you are as highly qualified and experienced in the law as you claim, one has to wonder why you started this thread. Surely your own vast expertise can provide you with all the answers you seek, so why post here seeking advice from amateurs such as myself?

I said before; "it seems that your purpose isn't to get help for your friend, but merely to bitch about the embassy staff!" which now appears to be certain.

I am also amazed that a supposedly reputable law officer such as yourself feels it unnecessary to report a case of immigration fraud to the relevant authorities, particularly when you made such a fuss about it happening.

Are your pants on fire?

[Mossfinn]

Yours insults to others are tiresome at best and wearying at worst and offensive. But hey, thats how you ply your trade.

Now, how about you go and earn your living and stop wasting the thime of others?

DNFTT (reminder to self - )

Ollie,

I think it might be an idea to search out previous posts of my old friend Toppers

They appear more infrequently now, but generally they are too generate a grouse against the Immigration boys and they generally then degenerate into a free-for-all.

Well done Tops, you did it again.

Don't give up the day job!!

Good Luck

Mossfinn

[Ollie]

Yours insults to others are tiresome at best and wearying at worst and offensive. But hey, thats how you ply your trade.

Now, how about you go and earn your living and stop wasting the thime of others?

DNFTT (reminder to self - )

Ollie,

I think it might be an idea to search out previous posts of my old friend Toppers

They appear more infrequently now, but generally they are too generate a grouse against the Immigration boys and they generally then degenerate into a free-for-all.

Well done Tops, you did it again.

Don't give up the day job!!

Good Luck

Mossfinn

Thanks Mossfinn, I'll take your word for it! Its not been without its humour and its been a bit dull elsewhere. Guys a <deleted>, though, talks out of his rectum. And tomorrow, alas, I'm back to my day job as well.

Regards.

[sabaijai]

Seems absolutely crazy but a friend of mine applied for a marriage visa to bring his Thai fiancee to the UK to marry.

This friend had been married and had divorced his first Thai wife at an amphur a few years ago.

The Embassy has now informed my friend that they are unable to even consider the application as there is an immigration rule.....yes immigration rule.. that states that only if he divorces in the UK will they accept the current application. They also went on and on about whether his now divorced first wife is now outside the UK, a question he is unable to answer with certainty .

Surely the Embassy are completely out of line with this. How can the Embassy refuse to accept a valid amphur divorce ? When he approached the Registry of Marriages in the UK for confirmation that he is free to marry they said they cannot confirm or otherwise if this man is free to marry and clearly are not willing to get into a tussle with the Bangkok Embassy.

Any views or advice please for my friend on how to tackle this insane situation ?

The gentleman sponsoring the lady is in fact a highly placed UK civil servant.

an overseas divorce obtained otherwise than by means of proceedings is recognised in the UK if:

1. It is valid in the country in which it was obtained;

2. At the relevant date, both parties were domiciled in that country or one was domiciled there and the other was domiciled in a country which recognised the divorce;

3. Neither party had been habitually resident in the United Kingdom throughout the period of one year immediately preceding that date.

Seems the Embassy decision may not be completey wrong, based on the information they have been given.

Seems like both may have been habitually resident in the United Kingdom throughout the period of one year immediately preceding that date.

Cheers

It does appear that was probable.