Govt considers invoking Section 44 to speed up Thai-Sino rail construction

[webfact]

Junta considers invoking Section 44 to speed up Thai-Sino rail construction

By Coconuts Bangkok 

 

Photo for illustration purposes only

 

The construction of the long-delayed Thai-Chinese high-speed railway may actually start this year since the military government is considering invoking Section 44 of the interim charter to make it all possible.

 

Due to “technical problems and legal issues,” the project had been delayed. However, Deputy PM Somkid Jatusripitak said that the government “may need to ask for the National Council for Peace and Order’s permission to invoke Section 44,” so that they may proceed with the project.

 

The rail would run from Bangkok to the northeast province of Nakhon Ratchasima.

 

Somkid also noted that issues regarding the Thai-Chinese railway’s delay must be resolved by September, when PM Prayuth Chan-ocha is scheduled to attend the ninth BRICS summit (short for Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa) in China.

 

Source: https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/junta-considers-invoking-section-44-to-speed-up-thai-sino-rail-construction/

 

-- © Copyright Coconuts Bangkok 2017-06-07

[coulson]

Can't afford to maintain the healthcare system but a rail link to China.....no problem go ahead.

Another wai to the Chinese & their joint collaboration. If you look at the agreement matrix it is destined to be a wonderful service. Feasibility, environmental impact and track bases by Thailand. M/E, signalling and rolling stock by China.....(wonder where they will be built)

First it was buying subs, then planes, now trains.....whats next automobiles?

The idea that this will eventually link with Singapore is a dream, that high end line will end in KL.

[Ricardo]

Perhaps they can also use section-44, to get the Chinese to lend them the money at a lower interest-rate, or even to finance it themselves as it should be done?

[coulson]

Perhaps they can also use section-44, to get the Chinese to lend them the money at a lower interest-rate, or even to finance it themselves as it should be done?

The Chinese will be doing most of the work. Thailand is providing the land and not muvh else

[Ricardo]

1 hour ago, coulson said:

The Chinese will be doing most of the work. Thailand is providing the land and not muvh else

 

 

 

I believe that you're mistaken, as to the current proposal.

 

The paper we cannot quote says that Thailand is currently expected to pay 100% for the line from Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima province, and that the PM made the decision in late-March to take over the whole financing of the line, which had earlier been expected to be jointly-funded by Thailand & China, while subcontracting the construction to China.

 

This carries a major financial risk, and follows the earlier failure to agree higher participation & lower interest-rates, from China. The Dems were (quite rightly IMO) objecting to this.

[oxo1947]

There is a lot of 'Glass half empty"  posters on here--I find the whole thing quite exciting-- High speed rail going through the country and the next country and into China. You really can not go wrong investing in a country's infrastructure. This is something not many other countries have----Real long distance high speed trains I mean......Russia is still struggling building there's--Britain is still talking about there 80 mile one.

There are some countries that have got some short routes--but surly when finished this would have to go down as a great engineering feat.

yet posters are just....oh yer.... then find something else to pick hole in.

 

The infrastructure in Thailand has come a long way in the years that I have been living here---it's OK to go on about Singapore--but its a lot easier when you have a country that is the size of a football pitch compared to other countries. The whole country of Singapore can fit into Bangkok twice and you will still have room left over.

Look at the other "Developed" Asian countries--- look at the ones that have spent out on Nuclear weapons , sending rockets to Mars--Pakistan--India etc.....go try to cross their cities , go sit on there trains.

 

[wakeupplease]

2 hours ago, Ricardo said:

Perhaps they can also use section-44, to get the Chinese to lend them the money at a lower interest-rate, or even to finance it themselves as it should be done?

Not a chance, the Chinese are not stupid they know like the Germans and others, they would never get the money back.

 

look at the ones that have spent out on Nuclear weapons , sending rockets to Mars--Pakistan--India etc

 

Very true well said that man, yet that lot still comes looking for handouts

 

3rd world mentality cesspits of corruption.

 

BRICS summit, nice friends they now have and shows their true colours

[Ricardo]

28 minutes ago, oxo1947 said:

There is a lot of 'Glass half empty"  posters on here--I find the whole thing quite exciting-- High speed rail going through the country and the next country and into China. You really can not go wrong investing in a country's infrastructure. This is something not many other countries have----Real long distance high speed trains I mean......Russia is still struggling building there's--Britain is still talking about there 80 mile one.

There are some countries that have got some short routes--but surly when finished this would have to go down as a great engineering feat.

yet posters are just....oh yer.... then find something else to pick hole in.

 

"you really can not go wrong investing  ..." and  "real long distance high speed trains"

 

Which begs the question, why is China now/recently so reluctant to finance or participate in this medium-speed heavy-freight line, which would speed their containerised-exports to Laem Chabang ?  Could it possibly be, that recent lower rates of growth/exports make their need less-urgent, than previously ?

 

The Thai idea of building a few new stations, and running a few passenger-trains up-and-down their section of the Chinese freight-line to improve links to the North-East, does make some sense as an add-on.  But surely not as the prime reason for building the line ?

 

Yet the current government here seems to want to assume the full financial-burden, when they cannot guarantee or control the volume of freight, which China would send to the Thai ports, and which is the main source of revenue to defray the initial cost.

 

  I'm not trying to pick holes or decry the Chinese project, just to understand the financial justification for it, when it will now apparently tie-up a substantial part of Thailand's investment-capital but not involve any risk/participation from the main users China.

[coulson]

 
I believe that you're mistaken, as to the current proposal.
 
The paper we cannot quote says that Thailand is currently expected to pay 100% for the line from Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima province, and that the PM made the decision in late-March to take over the whole financing of the line, which had earlier been expected to be jointly-funded by Thailand & China, while subcontracting the construction to China.
 
This carries a major financial risk, and follows the earlier failure to agree higher participation & lower interest-rates, from China. The Dems were (quite rightly IMO) objecting to this.

You're right...and I agree with your last statement.

I read an older article and thought the systems etc were still being provided and financed by China.

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/thais-to-fund-first-phase-of-thailand-china-railway-project

[oxo1947]

1 hour ago, Ricardo said:

Could it possibly be, that recent lower rates of growth/exports make their need less-urgent, than previously

Possibly so  Ricardo--- but I think it will be taking a lot more traffic than what you are quoting----there is a whole country between China and Thailand, that is landlocked, I moved from Pattaya and for the last 11 years live quite close to that border ---I have seen the Thai side struggle with the amount of trucks carrying -goods /Petrol/cars etc etc... every day through my town-- another ring road -another overpass in Udon -another under pass in KK another  bridge across the Mekon--Mukdaharn & still they can not keep up with the trade crossing that border. Not to mention the people--tourist trade/visa renewals -- anyone who has crossed will tell you the wait in the sun while you queue with your passport.

Yes trade may have slowed a little at the moment......as it does, however I dont think anyone feels that this train will be a white elephant running empty.

Edited June 7, 2017 by oxo1947

[Ricardo]

Then why have the Chinese apparently got cold feet, especially with construction of the Chinese & Laotian sections of the line underway ?

 

We live in interesting times !

Edited June 7, 2017 by Ricardo

[Srikcir]

On 6/7/2017 at 3:35 PM, webfact said:

Due to “technical problems and legal issues,” the project had been delayed.

No elaboration. However, some of these "issues" may relate in part to the following:

 

"... the Transport Ministry wanted the SRT to conduct additional feasibility study on several scenarios such as how much impact on the SRT’s revenue if passengers are below target by 10 percent or what will the SRT do if passengers are below target by 20 percent. ....He said that SRT must complete the additional study and submit its findings to the board for approval before the project is to be submitted to the cabinet for endorsement." 

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/srt-told-conduct-feasibility-study-thai-chinese-train-project/

 

Article 44 - let's not worry about profitability. Build it and they will come.

 

[coulson]

No elaboration. However, some of these "issues" may relate in part to the following:
 
"... the Transport Ministry wanted the SRT to conduct additional feasibility study on several scenarios such as how much impact on the SRT’s revenue if passengers are below target by 10 percent or what will the SRT do if passengers are below target by 20 percent. ....He said that SRT must complete the additional study and submit its findings to the board for approval before the project is to be submitted to the cabinet for endorsement." 
http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/srt-told-conduct-feasibility-study-thai-chinese-train-project/
 
Article 44 - let's not worry about profitability. Build it and they will come.
 

Feasibility.....who needs it?

Maybe the Honeywell fiasco was what drove the Chinese to fall out of the venture.

[coulson]

Then why have the Chinese apparently got cold feet, especially with construction of the Chinese & Laotian sections of the line underway ?
 
We live in interesting times !

Appears they didn't agree on the actual build cost projections. They would still be available to offer services for systems and rolling stock.

[ChrisY1]

If the Japanese were involved, then the project probably could go forward....but dealings with the Chinese is going to lead to big issues....once they get in here, there will be Chinese company start ups, employing their own people...work and equipment quality will be degraded after a short time....in my mind and after seeing the impact the Chinese have had in Laos, the Pacific Islands and parts of Africa...this whole idea of China being the saviours, is so wrong!

[Srikcir]

11 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

but dealings with the Chinese is going to lead to big issues

Case in point:

Chinese officials pressed for the right to develop commercial property at the stations and along the forthcoming railway track, from Bangkok to the north-eastern city of Nong Khai near Laos. To the credit of the Prayut government, Thai Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith responded, "We told the Chinese there is no granting of the land rights, ... Thailand is not the same as Laos,"

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/thailand-rebuffs-railway-deal-with-china

However, I'm not sure that there is an exact commonality between "right to develop commercial property" and "land rights." One can have the right to develop commercial property through rezoning (ie., from agriculture to industrial) without actual ownership of the land (ie., lease). As Thailand is not the same as Laos, so too is Thailand's methods for collusion and corruption.