The best way to be together (Thai GF needs UK Visa)

[peterpaz]

Hello
Firstly, This question has probably cropped up more time on Thaivisa.com than Gazza has downed cans of tennent's...
So apologies from the outset and feel free to skip my plea for advice if you want.

Ok...
I've been in a relationship for over a year to a Thai lady.
I've visited her 4 or 5 times in Thailand
We obtained a visitor visa with no problem for her last year and she spend two weeks in the UK.

About her:
43 yrs old
Now works for herself wholesale/selling cosmetics to shops in Bangkok
She's recently divorced (took 1 1/2 years though courts!)
Owns her own car but lives in a rented condo.
Minimal savings (I think). But has been awarded a half-decent divorce settlement payable over 3 years.
Speaks limited English (but is determined to learn). I think she's struggle a little bit with an english exam but its not impossible.
Extremely well well presented and educated
Mother & father are dead and has no siblings
One son (3yrs old) but has very limited access as the father (ex husband) is rich and controlling (although the courts granted her access its extremely awkward for her to see her son).
She says she loves me and wants to be with me forever "wants a proper relationship and wants to be together permanently".

Me:
51 yrs old
Business owner in the UK.
Never married but have one daughter 19 years old.
Own House, car etc outright.
Good portfolio of savings and investments.
Pay in considerable amount to Business Pension Scheme.
Not ready to pack the business in or retire yet.
Really don't want to rush into marriage just for visa purposes.
Love my GF and would like her to live with me in England.

Question:
I would like a your views on the best and legal (plus most uncomplicated) way we can be together in the UK.

Any constructive advise will be so appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

(PS: I can take a bit of p*ss taking but don't be nasty :-)



 

[samsensam]

 

together for a holiday in the uk or permanently? with or without her child?

 

suggest her visiting for a holiday first to see if she can live in the uk, in which case apply for a tourist visa.

[Upnotover]

4 minutes ago, samsensam said:

suggest her visiting for a holiday first to see if she can live in the uk, in which case apply for a tourist visa.

 

12 minutes ago, peterpaz said:

We obtained a visitor visa with no problem for her last year and she spend two weeks in the UK

 

[peterpaz]

Hi Samsensam

Together on a permanent basis in the UK (but perhaps taking one or two trips back to Thailand to see friends etc each year).

We got a visitor visa for her last year with no problems (she was in full time employment at the time so had the 'all important' letter from her employer granting a holiday).  I thought about trying for another visitor visa but its not really a solution to what we want. Obviously if we got one, she had the option to stay for up to 6 months in the UK... (which would be nice as a starter) but would probably be frowned on when apply for another visa of any type.

 

She would not be bringing her son to the UK. He would have to stay with the father in Thailand where he lives now.

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by peterpaz
missed something out

[peterpaz]

She would not be bringing her son to the UK. He would have to stay with the father in Thailand where he lives now.

[darren1971]

I believe you need a multi entry visa, pretty sure you can do that on a visit visa though which is valid for 6 months

[peterpaz]

Hi Darren
Can you briefly explain what a 'multi entry visa' entitles you to please?... Not sure how this can let her live in England?
Thanks you.

[GuiseppeD]

1 hour ago, peterpaz said:

I would like a your views on the best and legal (plus most uncomplicated) way we can be together in the UK.

So you want your Thai girlfriend to eventually gain a British passport?

 

Hard to know what you want to achieve as your post lacks detail and you don't appear to be married.

 

[darren1971]

5 minutes ago, peterpaz said:

Hi Darren
Can you briefly explain what a 'multi entry visa' entitles you to please?... Not sure how this can let her live in England?
Thanks you.

I dont know the info and it's hard to find, but my friend got his partner a 10 year multi entry visa

 

from the uk gov website:

Long-term visit visas

If you can prove you need to visit the UK regularly over a longer period, you can apply for a visa that lasts 2, 5 or 10 years. You can stay for a maximum of 6 months on each visit.

[Stocky]

3 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

a 10 year multi entry visa

Still doesn't allow more than 180 days per year in the UK.

[theoldgit]

The only way you can stay together in the UK is using the Settlement visa route, the only way you can do that that in your position is as a married couple, you don't qualify as a couple in a subsisting relationship, as you're not in one.

 

For her to settle in the UK as your wife you, as her sponsor would need to demonstrate that you meet the minimum income requirements of £18,600 per year, or have cash savings, you also need to demonstrate that you have somewhere to live, which you seem to have.

 

Your wife would need to pass an English Test and take a TB test.

 

A visit visa, multiple or single entry is not suitable for what you want to do, whilst a visit visa would allow your wife to spend six months in the UK they're designed for genuine visitors not somebody using it to live in the UK for extended periods, which is what you seem to have in mind.

[theoldgit]

9 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

I dont know the info and it's hard to find, but my friend got his partner a 10 year multi entry visa

 

from the uk gov website:

Long-term visit visas

If you can prove you need to visit the UK regularly over a longer period, you can apply for a visa that lasts 2, 5 or 10 years. You can stay for a maximum of 6 months on each visit.

 

Border Force Officers are instructed to check that you don't attempt to use visit visas, be they six months, two, five or ten years, to live in the UK for extended periods, if your girlfriend is suspected of doing so she could be denied entry into the UK and her visa cancelled.

 

Entry Clearance Officers will issue longer term visit visas if the applicant can satisfy them that there is a genuine need to visit the UK on a regular basis, what the OP has in mine doesn't fall under that category.

[peterpaz]

20 minutes ago, GuiseppeD said:

So you want your Thai girlfriend to eventually gain a British passport?

 

Hard to know what you want to achieve as your post lacks detail and you don't appear to be married.

 

Is it important at this stage for us to consider she eventually gains a British passport?

What more info can I give?... I'd be happy to give more info if there are any important factors i've missed off in my post.

[GuiseppeD]

Peter - what is your ultimate aim?  Do you want your girlfriend to be a UK citizen so that she has two passports, i.e. one British and one Thai?  Or do you just want her to visit occasionally?

 

It's really not clear.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by GuiseppeD

[peterpaz]

15 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

The only way you can stay together in the UK is using the Settlement visa route, the only way you can do that that in your position is as a married couple, you don't qualify as a couple in a subsisting relationship, as you're not in one.

 

For her to settle in the UK as your wife you, as her sponsor would need to demonstrate that you meet the minimum income requirements of £18,600 per year, or have cash savings, you also need to demonstrate that you have somewhere to live, which you seem to have.

 

Your wife would need to pass an English Test and take a TB test.

 

A visit visa, multiple or single entry is not suitable for what you want to do, whilst a visit visa would allow your wife to spend six months in the UK they're designed for genuine visitors not somebody using it to live in the UK for extended periods, which is what you seem to have in mind.

I can certainly meet the 'sponsor' requirements when it comes to financial requirements.
I can't get my head around a 'settlement' visa though.... only allowed 6 months in the UK. That doesn't really say 'settlement' to me.

I know what people on here will say... "If you say you both love each other, just get married".... 
I'm very nervous about getting married just to get a visa. I do love her but I'd like to try living together in the UK before I ask her to marry me for all the right reasons. I am fully aware of all issues that can arise once a Thai lady moves to England and problems could 'crop-up' that you would never have predicted. My intentions are honest - I'm just trying to be sensible about this and cautious at the same time. Marriage for me would be a lifelong commitment and I'd need to be 100% happy that everything would work out.

[peterpaz]

10 minutes ago, GuiseppeD said:

Peter - what is your ultimate aim?  Do you want your girlfriend to be a UK citizen so that she has two passports, i.e. one British and one Thai?  Or do you just want her to visit occasionally?

 

It's really not clear.

 

 

We want to live together in the UK (and take the odd couple of weeks holiday in Thailand as and when).... if it works out and we both are happy, then we can live happily ever after forever. I'm not sure why my question is not clear TBH.

 

[GuiseppeD]

3 minutes ago, peterpaz said:

We want to live together in the UK (and take the odd couple of weeks holiday in Thailand as and when).... if it works out and we both are happy, then we can live happily ever after forever. I'm not sure why my question is not clear TBH.

 

Because you're all over the place but forgiven.

 

Let's move on.  Are you intent on getting married?

[peterpaz]

7 minutes ago, GuiseppeD said:

Because you're all over the place but forgiven.

 

Let's move on.  Are you intent on getting married?

An honest answer Guiseppe... yes marriage to her is on my agenda , but I'd like to be with my GF for around a year (living together) before I committed. The past year, if I was cynical, could be described as 'holiday romance' to a lot of people (although both me and her know its not). This is because of my UK business commitments which means I can only visit her for a couple weeks each time.

Thanks for forgiving me about 'being all over the place' BTW :-)
 

[peterpaz]

As I suspected (after trawling through government sites, forums and lots of related subjects on various websites) that there is no easy way (if any) to achieve what we want.
Rightly so, the VISA system is set-up to eliminate other nationals overstaying or illegally staying in England.
So many people will abuse (or try to abuse) any such systems (especially when it involves coming to England - the land of plenty) so these systems are important.

We are two people of different nationalities want to spend there lives together. Its a lovely romantic idea, but perhaps in my case can only be achieved if I retire to Thailand?

One thing is for sure, she would never claim any benefits or abuse the UK system. I have worked my socks of in England for many years and paid tonnes on tax over the years.
I would financially support the both of us to the hilt for the rest of our lives.... I know, not enough warrant our dream.

 

 

[theoldgit]

I can't get my head around a 'settlement' visa though.... only allowed 6 months in the UK. That doesn't really say 'settlement' to me.

I know what people on here will say... "If you say you both love each other, just get married".... 
I'm very nervous about getting married just to get a visa. I do love her but I'd like to try living together in the UK before I ask her to marry me for all the right reasons.

Settlement is exactly that, if she applies to settle in the UK she can live there, initially, for 30 months, providing you both meet the criteria, after 30 months she applies for Further Leave to Remain and after a further a further 30 months she can apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain, following which, after a few more hoops, she can apply for Citizenship.

The six months is for visit visas, as I said before it's not intended to be used to try living together in the UK, if you want to try living together you might be better doing so in Thailand.

This is something you need to discuss together.

[peterpaz]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

Settlement is exactly that, if she applies to settle in the UK she can live there, initially, for 30 months

Thats more like it!!

Can I ask about how to apply for this visa and the criteria (in layman's terms) .... or perhaps I should try and make it out from the .gov site?

One quick question about this 'settlement visa' though if I may .... As long as me/she ticks all the boxes for finance, English exam pass, TB check, etc.,  whats the possibility of getting this Visa? 
With various visits from me to her in Thailand and a visit from her to me in the UK, proof i'm a home owner, bank statements, etc - is there anything else I/we can do (like more visits etc) that would give us a fighting chance?  I'm one of these guys that believe preparation is the key before I try to accomplish anything ... and I'm also one for dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's, but this inevitably leads to over-thinking everything and me loosing lots of sleep as a result!!

Many thanks again

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by peterpaz
added content

[GuiseppeD]

3 minutes ago, peterpaz said:

Thats more like it!!

Can I ask about how to apply for this visa and the criteria (in layman's terms) .... or perhaps I should try and make it out from the .gov site?

One quick question about this 'settlement visa' though if I may .... As long as me/she ticks all the boxes for finance, English exam pass, TB check, etc.,  whats the possibility of getting this Visa? 
With various visits from me to her in Thailand and a visit from her to me in the UK - is there anything else I/we can do (like more visits etc) that would give us a fighting chance?  I'm one of these guys that believe preparation is the key ... and I'm also one for dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's, but this inevitably leads to over-thinking everything and me loosing lots of sleep as a result!!

Many thanks again

 

Dot them for the next five or six years.  Good luck.  

[theoldgit]

@peterpaz - It's pretty straightforward though you do have to be married, or have been living in a relationship akin to marriage for at least two years, so unless you're legally married it wouldn't be for you, I did point that out earlier.

It's a tick box application, proof that you meet the financial requirements, proof that you're married, or have been living together for more than two years, proof that you've actually met, evidence of available accommodation, that's really it.

The application fee, including the NHS Surcharge, costs in the region of £2,000 which is not refunded if the application is refused, though the £600 NHS surcharge is refunded.

The applicant has to pass a, pretty basic, spoken English test and undergo a TB examination.

[bobrussell]

There is a pinned post on Settlement visa and one on meeting the minimum income requirements.

Best to sit down with ample volumes of coffee or tea and work through these at your leisure. Everyone has different circumstances so very specific advice can only be given if very specific information is provided.

Visit visa history can be useful in supporting the relationship history and applicant credibility but not overly relevant as the visa types are completely different.

A settlement visa is designed primarily for partners therefore unless marriage is going to take place the applicant has to demonstrate that they have been living in a relationship akin to marriage for at least two years. This does not appear to be the case here.

If the intention is to see how the relationship goes then settlement is not the visa type to go for! This will leave visits to Thailand and further visits to the UK.

A concern with further visit visas will be employment. A self-employed person is unlikely to be able to justify a prolonged absence from the business. One that can be run from anywhere is not going to provide good 'reasons to return'!

You are asking a 'how long is a piece of string?' type question!

Settlement would mean marriage or similar arrangement either in the UK or Thailand.

[peterpaz]

2 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

It's pretty straightforward though you do have to be married, or have been living in a relationship akin to marriage for at least two years

Oh flipping heck!... always a problem to my plans! No way of getting round this one I guess.

Thanks so much for the suggestion though... very much appreciated.

[rasg]

The visa you are looking for doesn't exist. There is no visa between a visit visa and a marriage visa for people like us. It's 180 days a year or permanent.

 

I went through exactly the same thing early last with my now wife. Like you I have my own business and we met very late in January 2015. The first visit was requested for a month in May 2015 and she arrived in the UK on 1st July 2015. She was laid off from work while she was here in the UK and she stayed 18 weeks and went back in the middle of October. I wanted her to come back to the UK for Christmas to meet the rest of the family and annoyingly the visit visa she had expired on the 12th December. If UKVI had granted the visa on the date we originally requested it would have taken in Christmas but not NYE but it wasn't even in our minds when she got her first VV.

 

A second VV was applied for for two years and granted and she arrived back in the UK on the first December. I was financially supporting her by this time. I was looking at the two of us going to Turkey for a holiday so that she could come straight back here and I found that I had the use of a 2 year VV completely wrong. 180 days in a 12 month period were the guidelines. She would have to go back to Thailand by 15th February or she would be an over stayer and we may have had problems further down the line. By that time she had been here for another 14 weeks.

 

Too much hassle to even attempt to circumvent the system, even if it is possible, (moving to Europe etc) so we decided to get married. When she flew back to Bangkok she was armed with all of the documents for a Settlement (fiancée) visa that lasts for six months and she went to Trinity college in Hammersmith for her A1 language test before she flew back. She took her TB test two days later in Bangkok and submitted the application to VFS the following day. She stayed with her cousin and his wife in Bangkok until the visa was granted and she flew back the same night that she picked the visa up from VFS. We married in June last year and applied for Further leave to remain (FLR) last September. We will have been married for a year on the 25th June.

 

You really have two choices if you want to be together for the long term, if you are unable to live in Thailand for any length of time. Get married in Thailand or get married in the UK.

 

Number 1

Thailand is the cheaper option and simpler. Get married at an Amphur. Cost is peanuts. No appointment necessary but you will need an Affirmation to marry and there seems to be issues about these at the moment. A bit of research needed on that.

 

Apply for a Settlement visa for the UK. The visa lasts for 33 months, then FLR, then Indefinite leave to remain after five years, then citizenship and a UK passport. A big advantage is that your wife will be able to work when she comes to the UK. It's also one visa cheaper and an easier process as the visa lasts so much longer than getting married in the UK. I would really recommend she gets the language test in the UK.

 

Number 2

 

What we did. Apply for a Settlement (fiancée) visa that lasts for six months. You must get married in that time. Then FLR for 30 months, Then a second FLR for 30 months. Then ILR after five years, then citizenship and a UK passport. Your GF cannot work for the duration of the fiancée visa.

 

If you are self employed you will need a full set of your latest accounts with your SA302 along with validated bank statements for the period. My accountant did the whole thing for 100 quid. I sent him a PDF of the financial requirements and he did the rest.

[peterpaz]

Hi rasg

Thank you so much for sharing your story and giving me the trials and tribulations you encountered!
This is just the kind of true story and insight I wanted to hear. (from someone who had similar issues to my current ones).

I'm so glad for you that you managed to get to where you wanted to be... in England with the lady you love.
Major achievement to jump through all the hoops - so well done to the pair of you!

It scares the sh*t out of me, but I guess I'm gonna have to consider getting wed if I want this to come true for us too.... Its a massive step, having never been married before.

So, now I think I might opt to try for another Visitor Visa for my GF first.... if granted, maybe she can stay for 3-4 months in England to get a 'true taste' of life in the UK. Rather than visiting for a couple of weeks here like her last visit, where I gave her my full attention, took her all over the place for breaks / days out. Went out a lot of meals etc.
A longer stay would feel more like 'real life' where I have to go to work each day, etc.... it would be a good indicator to see if her dream was really for her... and of course it was for me too.

If all goes well I could fly back out to Thailand with her for a month or two after her visit.
Then (if all was hunky-dory) I think I would be ready to 'pop the question' and get hitched.

Question: Did, your then GF's, 18 week stay on her 1st VV raise any eyebrows with the Visa authority?
I'm guessing it didn't as she was granted the 2nd?

This has cheered me up... thanks once again for sharing your experience mate.
I wish you a long and happy marriage. 

Kind regards

Peter



 

[rasg]

49 minutes ago, peterpaz said:

Thank you so much for sharing your story and giving me the trials and tribulations you encountered!
This is just the kind of true story and insight I wanted to hear. (from someone who had similar issues to my current ones).

I'm so glad for you that you managed to get to where you wanted to be... in England with the lady you love.
Major achievement to jump through all the hoops - so well done to the pair of you!

It scares the sh*t out of me, but I guess I'm gonna have to consider getting wed if I want this to come true for us too.... Its a massive step, having never been married before.

So, now I think I might opt to try for another Visitor Visa for my GF first.... if granted, maybe she can stay for 3-4 months in England to get a 'true taste' of life in the UK. Rather than visiting for a couple of weeks here like her last visit, where I gave her my full attention, took her all over the place for breaks / days out. Went out a lot of meals etc.
A longer stay would feel more like 'real life' where I have to go to work each day, etc.... it would be a good indicator to see if her dream was really for her... and of course it was for me too.

If all goes well I could fly back out to Thailand with her for a month or two after her visit.
Then (if all was hunky-dory) I think I would be ready to 'pop the question' and get hitched.

Question: Did, your then GF's, 18 week stay on her 1st VV raise any eyebrows with the Visa authority?
I'm guessing it didn't as she was granted the 2nd?

This has cheered me up... thanks once again for sharing your experience mate.
I wish you a long and happy marriage.



 

Thanks. I hope it's helped.

 

It scared me too. My first marriage at the age of 59 so you're not alone... I have no regrets at all.

 

I agree with you. Holidays are not the same as living together. That's why we went the route we did. We had no intention of getting married for a while but the visa system gave us a huge shove as we didn't want to live apart.

 

One big thing about a Settlement visa is that she won't need a reason to return. If your GF gets a visit visa for, say a month, there is no reason why she couldn't stay a few months. One caveat, You need to give a valid explanation in the next visa application. Not so much if the next visa is a Settlement visa to get married but you do need to explain.

 

Don't apply for a visit visa for more than 4/6 weeks.  UKVI will be asking how your GFs business will run etc etc if she requests a long period. Already having been to tke UK before is a big plus.

[mercman24]

if the boredom doesn' t get to her the uk weather certainly will.

[GuiseppeD]

8 hours ago, peterpaz said:

Question: Did, your then GF's, 18 week stay on her 1st VV raise any eyebrows with the Visa authority?
I'm guessing it didn't as she was granted the 2nd?

When applying for the next VV you should state that it's with a view to getting married and subsequent settlement visa and this visit is about your girlfriend dipping her toes in the water as to say.