Stray Dog Problem

[Buckwheat]

I wonder if the local government officials spend as much time considering how to address the problem as the posters on this thread do.

If it's not an issue to the local government officials, nothing will be done except wishful thinking...unless farangs pony up the $$$ (which must be controled by the local governments).

The first time a farang spays, neuters or culls a dog, a line of Thais will show up at the Police Station and demand compensation because it was their dog and the action taken has caused harm to their well being.

Just my opinion

[pumpuiman]

There are a number of flaws in the quoted research. Not surprising as it was compiled by animal welfare organizations.

Maybe you should read the research conducted by the World Health Organization...the links had been provided for you.

If the cull is widespread and continous there will be no dogs to replace the removed dogs. Also, there will be no need for any remaining dogs to migrate as there is much less dogs were they live anyway.

Again...please read the studies and research provided.

This argument that culled dogs would be replaced by others doesn't wash. You could just as easily say that the dogs that are not born will be replaced by others.

As for being able to tell which dogs have owners, that's easy - the dogs with owners are not roaming the streets! They are being cared for properly aren't they? The dogs with owners on the street are easily identified, they have leads and their owner attached.

Read. I'm not a <deleted>@king whining liberal. Killing doesn't work.READ ABOUT IT.

If any pro killing folks here can find a published study saying it is more effective than sterilization...post it please

I thought I provided enough links/facts to quell any argument here, and hoped to find some productive ideas.....but we end up arguing about things that have been disproven.

[ZZZ]

There are a number of flaws in the quoted research. Not surprising as it was compiled by animal welfare organizations.

Maybe you should read the research conducted by the World Health Organization...the links had been provided for you.

If the cull is widespread and continous there will be no dogs to replace the removed dogs. Also, there will be no need for any remaining dogs to migrate as there is much less dogs were they live anyway.

Again...please read the studies and research provided.

This argument that culled dogs would be replaced by others doesn't wash. You could just as easily say that the dogs that are not born will be replaced by others.

As for being able to tell which dogs have owners, that's easy - the dogs with owners are not roaming the streets! They are being cared for properly aren't they? The dogs with owners on the street are easily identified, they have leads and their owner attached.

Read. I'm not a <deleted>@king whining liberal. Killing doesn't work.READ ABOUT IT.

If any pro killing folks here can find a published study saying it is more effective than sterilization...post it please

I thought I provided enough links/facts to quell any argument here, and hoped to find some productive ideas.....but we end up arguing about things that have been disproven.

I did read the link about the research done by the World Health Organization (WHO) and the Animal Welfare Board of India. This research was, by the way, published on the website of the organization "The Welfare of Stray Dogs", so forgive me if I think it was slightly biased.

There are plenty of places where stray dogs have been successfully killed off, that is better proof than any biased "research". Singapore have killed of all their strays, in Cambodia they get eaten. Common sense says killing off the dogs would work.

Besides, the research you referred to was referring to the stray dog problem in third world countries, don't think Pattaya would be in this category. In Pattaya trash is collected daily and there is no easy access to food for strays. In India you find trash everywhere, plenty of food for strays. Most strays in Pattaya would probably die of hunger if they were not fed by people they live amongst, just stop feeding them and they will soon disappear.

I do feel for you pumpuiman and would have preferred if there was another solution but I can simply not see another way but to put down the majority of the strays. Once the numbers are down maybe a sterilization project would work but first the numbers must be brought down and the sick dogs be removed.

[thaihome]

No doubt, the Thai soi dog is a problem, but as was just touched on in one post, they are soi dogs and belong to the soi and are fed by people in soi. Either join the soi or choose to be an outsider.

TH

[ZZZ]

A soi is a public place. If these dogs belong to the people on that soi they should keep them in their houses or take all responsibilities for the damage the dogs do.

Anyway, here are some recommendations from WHO on the problem:

http://www.karmayog.com/dogs/straydogs_rabies.htm

Recently, on 5-9 March 2001 at the Fourth International Symposium on Rabies Control in Asia, (co-sponsored by WHO), a paper was presented by Joy Leney of the World Society for the Protection of Animals, London. It suggested, among other measures like a legislative framework for control of both owned and unowned dogs, appropriate garbage disposal and neutering, that there should be “Government controlled dog collection centers where animals can be assessed; if found suitable for adoption, they can be vaccinated and neutered. It is recommended that diseased, aggressive and surplus dogs should be put down humanely. “ Also, that “in countries where there is a large population of stray dogs and cats, it may be impractical and unreasonable to expect governments to allocate sufficient funding and resources to capture, vaccinate, neuter and release unwanted animals on a wide scale.”

For people with moral problems with killing dogs, even the great Ghandi was all for this:

“A roving dog without an owner is a danger to society and a swarm of them is a menace to its very existence…. If we want to keep dogs in towns or villages in a decent manner no dog should be suffered to wander. There should be no stray dogs even as we have no stray cattle…. But can we take individual charge of these roving dogs? Can we have a pinjrapole for them? If both these things are impossible then there seems to me no alternative except to kill them.”

More writings on the subject by Ghandi here:

http://www.karmayog.com/dogs/gandhijiletter.htm

[altman]

one aspect that those who want to sterilize seem to over look is the dog sh-t.

aside from the disgust of stepping in it on a liesurely walk, there is the actual health problem of it.

a dead dog will not create any more sh-t.

it has been my experience that once a thing has a value placed on it, a bounty in the case of animals to be culled, very few will survive. an example would be the buffalo in america.

Edited December 30, 2006 by altman

[PATTAYAPUNTER]

1000 words.

[pumpuiman]

A soi is a public place. If these dogs belong to the people on that soi they should keep them in their houses or take all responsibilities for the damage the dogs do.

Anyway, here are some recommendations from WHO on the problem:

http://www.karmayog.com/dogs/straydogs_rabies.htm

Recently, on 5-9 March 2001 at the Fourth International Symposium on Rabies Control in Asia, (co-sponsored by WHO), a paper was presented by Joy Leney of the World Society for the Protection of Animals, London. It suggested, among other measures like a legislative framework for control of both owned and unowned dogs, appropriate garbage disposal and neutering, that there should be “Government controlled dog collection centers where animals can be assessed; if found suitable for adoption, they can be vaccinated and neutered. It is recommended that diseased, aggressive and surplus dogs should be put down humanely. “ Also, that “in countries where there is a large population of stray dogs and cats, it may be impractical and unreasonable to expect governments to allocate sufficient funding and resources to capture, vaccinate, neuter and release unwanted animals on a wide scale.”

For people with moral problems with killing dogs, even the great Ghandi was all for this:

“A roving dog without an owner is a danger to society and a swarm of them is a menace to its very existence…. If we want to keep dogs in towns or villages in a decent manner no dog should be suffered to wander. There should be no stray dogs even as we have no stray cattle…. But can we take individual charge of these roving dogs? Can we have a pinjrapole for them? If both these things are impossible then there seems to me no alternative except to kill them.”

More writings on the subject by Ghandi here:

http://www.karmayog.com/dogs/gandhijiletter.htm

Thank you for this informative post. It is very interesting that the WHO takes two different views on the subject. I was unable to find support for destruction on the WHO website....but apparently it exists. I only found support for sterilization. I will research further and see if this 2001 event is mentioned.

Thank you again for your time and interest.

[ZZZ]

I have never been to Hua Hin but apparently they have solved the stray dog problem there. What they did was to round up all the strays and keep them in a large shelter.

The shelter has a capacity of 2000 dogs and there are 1300 dogs there at the present. Initially they rounded up about 300 dogs per month; this is now down to about 30 per month. About 90% of all the strays have been caught.

Not sure if this would work in Pattaya as there are many times more dogs here.

Full story:

http://www.thailand-huahin.com/news/thaila...hin-news-56.htm

[Mai Krap]

My suggestion is move to Sakon Nakhon, There is no loose dog problem there.

[rocky]

There are a number of flaws in the quoted research. Not surprising as it was compiled by animal welfare organizations.

Maybe you should read the research conducted by the World Health Organization...the links had been provided for you.

If the cull is widespread and continous there will be no dogs to replace the removed dogs. Also, there will be no need for any remaining dogs to migrate as there is much less dogs were they live anyway.

Again...please read the studies and research provided.

This argument that culled dogs would be replaced by others doesn't wash. You could just as easily say that the dogs that are not born will be replaced by others.

As for being able to tell which dogs have owners, that's easy - the dogs with owners are not roaming the streets! They are being cared for properly aren't they? The dogs with owners on the street are easily identified, they have leads and their owner attached.

Read. I'm not a <deleted>@king whining liberal. Killing doesn't work.READ ABOUT IT.

If any pro killing folks here can find a published study saying it is more effective than sterilization...post it please

I thought I provided enough links/facts to quell any argument here, and hoped to find some productive ideas.....but we end up arguing about things that have been disproven.

When you started this thread, I thought you really wonted to do something positive about the stray dog situation here, and replied that I would be able to help.

What is it that you are going to do, what active program are you going to start

It turns out you don’t even live here, you are saying killing the dogs is not the answer based on some research carried out in India. This isn’t India, you don’t deal with the problem day in day out, so what do you really know about the dog situation in Pattaya ?

We are the people having to deal with dogs intimidating and attacking, while you are in your home country dreaming of living here. I am a lover of all animals, But there is no room for this situation in a developed society.

Perhaps when India becomes a major tourist destination then they will look at the dog situation different along with the children they have sleeping on the streets.

Tourists have to put up with these vicious dogs and some have to receive rabbies injections as a result of being attacked. These are families with children, You cannot get away from the problem, the dogs are everywhere, you can get attacked at any moment.

Get back to your dream, while we get back to the reality of this problem

[pumpuiman]

There are a number of flaws in the quoted research. Not surprising as it was compiled by animal welfare organizations.

Maybe you should read the research conducted by the World Health Organization...the links had been provided for you.

If the cull is widespread and continous there will be no dogs to replace the removed dogs. Also, there will be no need for any remaining dogs to migrate as there is much less dogs were they live anyway.

Again...please read the studies and research provided.

This argument that culled dogs would be replaced by others doesn't wash. You could just as easily say that the dogs that are not born will be replaced by others.

As for being able to tell which dogs have owners, that's easy - the dogs with owners are not roaming the streets! They are being cared for properly aren't they? The dogs with owners on the street are easily identified, they have leads and their owner attached.

Read. I'm not a <deleted>@king whining liberal. Killing doesn't work.READ ABOUT IT.

If any pro killing folks here can find a published study saying it is more effective than sterilization...post it please

I thought I provided enough links/facts to quell any argument here, and hoped to find some productive ideas.....but we end up arguing about things that have been disproven.

When you started this thread, I thought you really wonted to do something positive about the stray dog situation here, and replied that I would be able to help.

What is it that you are going to do, what active program are you going to start

It turns out you don’t even live here, you are saying killing the dogs is not the answer based on some research carried out in India. This isn’t India, you don’t deal with the problem day in day out, so what do you really know about the dog situation in Pattaya ?

We are the people having to deal with dogs intimidating and attacking, while you are in your home country dreaming of living here. I am a lover of all animals, But there is no room for this situation in a developed society.

Perhaps when India becomes a major tourist destination then they will look at the dog situation different along with the children they have sleeping on the streets.

Tourists have to put up with these vicious dogs and some have to receive rabbies injections as a result of being attacked. These are families with children, You cannot get away from the problem, the dogs are everywhere, you can get attacked at any moment.

Get back to your dream, while we get back to the reality of this problem

Rocky,

I'm not sure I understand your post. I read posts about the problems with soi dogs in Pattaya and elsewhere. I have also witnessed these problems first hand. I own a home in Thailand and spend several months a year there.I would be there now, but am unfortunately awaiting surgery here in the U.S. My latest post was directed at getting concrete workable ideas as opposed to the earlier posts which just seemed to evolve in to arguments.

I thought Pattaya would be an area to concentrate on, due to the extensive problem there, and for a small number of people to try and tackle the problem it should be done in a defined area. I did not state I was spearheading an organization, but only wanted real world ideas. If you read the OP you will see that very clearly.

I dont appreciate having words put in my mouth. I have a genuine interest in this subject, and would be willing to help in some way...even though my home is located elsewhere in Thailand.

I have had personal conversations in this forum concerning fundraising. One recent conversation was with a veterinarian you might know from this forum. One would not have to live in Pattaya to raise funds.

Your post is insulting. You have no right to bash me in this way....I never stated I was starting an active program as you suggest...if you find record to the contrary feel free to quote from my original post.

Not all information given was from studies conducted in India...again you are spouting falsehoods.

What the fukc did I do to deserve this bashing from you? I only tried to help my neighbor, and I'm met with disdain. Rocky.....you suck.

[pumpuiman]

Here is an article from the WHO website I found interesting. It references Southeast asia, and addressing dogs that are fed by locals as in Pattaya.Dog problem

[texpatriate]

Research shows killing doesn't work. If you find factual evidence to the contrary, please post it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is voodoo a big problem in Thailand?

I have never had to kill any dogs in Thailand but the ones that I've killed in Laos, Vietnam and Texas all remained dead after I killed them.

That's right folks not a single animal came back as a zombie.

Neutered animals still BITE, SH*T, and EAT GARBAGE. Those are still facts.

As for the animal friendly studies that claim dead dogs are as troublesome as live ones,

I can show you research linking instant coffee to global warming

-texpat

Edited January 10, 2007 by texpatriate