Planning To Grow Palm Oil Trees

[tato71]

Dear All,

My Thai wife and myself are planning to grow a palm tree plantation near Surin

and would like as much advise as you can provide. The intention is to purchase

100 rai to start with (ideally in 1, 2 or 3 lot max provided not far from each other)

1) I think that first we must be very carefull with the type of land we want to purchase

(holding title paper) as well as the composition of the soil (deep, flat with good draining

properties and with good nutritional properties for the tress. TELL ME IF I AM MISSING

SOMETHING ABOUT THE SOIL). We would like her parents (who are rice farmers) to look

after the growing trees while we stay in Europe for the next 3 years (this is the time when

the tress will be giving their first fruits for oil extraction)

2) Is it possible to buy palm oil trees already 6 months old and at what unit costs and where.

( i have calculated that about 3'200 trees will be needed for a 100 rai plantation is

that right ? )

3) We must make sure that there will be a oil processing facilities not to far from the plantation in

order to minimize most probably the truck rental costs ( i understand that there is 1 palm oil

refinery near Surin, correct me if i am wrong)

4) In your opinion how many daily workers (including the father of my wife who will be the supervisor)

will be needed to take care of the plantation while the trees are growing and how much will be the

monthly pay roll for the workers.

5) the yield is about 4-5 tons per 6 rai every year but how much can we get from the oil processing

facilities if they do the extraction themself after we only bring them the fruits ?

6 ) Does anyone already involved in such business and where ?

Your expertise is most welcome,

with my best regards and best wishes for the new year.

Tato

[friend2]

Dear All,

My Thai wife and myself are planning to grow a palm tree plantation near Surin

and would like as much advise as you can provide. The intention is to purchase

100 rai to start with (ideally in 1, 2 or 3 lot max provided not far from each other)

1) I think that first we must be very carefull with the type of land we want to purchase

(holding title paper) as well as the composition of the soil (deep, flat with good draining

properties and with good nutritional properties for the tress. TELL ME IF I AM MISSING

SOMETHING ABOUT THE SOIL). We would like her parents (who are rice farmers) to look

after the growing trees while we stay in Europe for the next 3 years (this is the time when

the tress will be giving their first fruits for oil extraction)

If you can find land that's not 100% flat, it's good, as flat land drains water poorly.

(Especially if they grew rice there before).

Drainage is important.

I've seen some relatively successfull attempts of bulldozing such land with water

run off channels.

The palms then gets planted in between the channels on slightly higher ground.

Don't ask me what the bulldozing costs, a buck or two I can imagine.

Palms like soils that are relatively good aerorated.(some sand is good)

Don't bother doing ph tests and stuff, all soils in Thailand are acid.

Palms have no problem with that.

2) Is it possible to buy palm oil trees already 6 months old and at what unit costs and where.

( i have calculated that about 3'200 trees will be needed for a 100 rai plantation is

that right ? )

If I were to buy oil palms, i'd definitively buy e'm myself in the south.

Either from a reputable specialist shop, or from a large nursery.

It's very important you get palms that have been breed, and not "fallen down fruit"

ones.

Some time ago (here in south), many people liked to plant "fallen down fruit" palms and sell them to the people in north !!

(you can't see the difference)

Planting such trees is a big waste of time.

The optimum planting density is about 22 palms per rai.

Usually in a triangular shape with palms being 8-9 meters apart.

(don't plant square)

The seedlings you buy should be around 15 months old.

(You still have to wait about 3 years for harvest).

3) We must make sure that there will be a oil processing facilities not to far from the plantation in

order to minimize most probably the truck rental costs ( i understand that there is 1 palm oil

refinery near Surin, correct me if i am wrong)

That will be very important to check out.

Make sure you do that first.

If you can't sell the fruit at a reasonable price...

4) In your opinion how many daily workers (including the father of my wife who will be the supervisor)

will be needed to take care of the plantation while the trees are growing and how much will be the

monthly pay roll for the workers.

I never seen any agricultural work being done on a monthly basis.

(except on very large plantations)

Usually you pay per rai/ finished work (or task) , or per tree, it depends.

Spraying herbicide will be per liter

Harvest will be per ton

Pruning palm leafs per tree etc..

If you payed this people per month, you'd come back from your country only to find out that nothings been done ! funny but probably true.

If the father of your wife is a good guy, i'm sure he'll figure it out.

The going rate where I live, is about 200 baht per ton for harvest, (and carrying the fruit to the roadside),

and another 100 for transport to the weight station.

120 baht per litre of sprayed herbicide

10 baht per tree for pruning

5) the yield is about 4-5 tons per 6 rai every year but how much can we get from the oil processing

facilities if they do the extraction themself after we only bring them the fruits ?

6 ) Does anyone already involved in such business and where ?

Your expertise is most welcome,

with my best regards and best wishes for the new year.

Tato

I don't think you can expect anything from the "oil processing facilities" except

a per kg price.(3 baht/kg right now in south)

The investment in such a facility is huge, 100 million or more thai baht for a professional setup.

You probably will be selling your fruit to a local "weight station" (lantej) somewhere.

[Nawtilus]

By my calculations there does not look to be much money in it....so why bother ??

[friend2]

It depends.

If you have alot of cash lying around, doing palm or rubber is better than

having the money in the bank.

(Never borrow money to do this)

If you came and bought the land like 10-15 years ago, it was actually quite

a good investment.

I calculate that I got my whole investment back in about 5 years, back then.

Today I guess it'll take between 20-30 years, cause of the high land prices

and maintenance costs,(fertilizer etc).

10 years ago the oil palm price was exactly the same as it is today !

Most Thais don't seem to realize this, but what it means is, that the price has actually decreased over the years.

[tato71]

It depends.

If you have alot of cash lying around, doing palm or rubber is better than

having the money in the bank.

(Never borrow money to do this)

If you came and bought the land like 10-15 years ago, it was actually quite

a good investment.

I calculate that I got my whole investment back in about 5 years, back then.

Today I guess it'll take between 20-30 years, cause of the high land prices

and maintenance costs,(fertilizer etc).

10 years ago the oil palm price was exactly the same as it is today !

Most Thais don't seem to realize this, but what it means is, that the price has actually decreased over the years.

Dear Friend,

Do you have an oil palm tree plantation yourself ??? if yes where about

in Thailand

In your view what would be the running costs for such a size about 80-100 rai

Thanks and happy new year

Tato

[jamescollister]

Tato

I looked at palm earlier this year when the local Government offered us 800 free trees and could not see it as a winner. At the prices you get per kilo. That was even though I have the land to spare and the equipment for planting,clearing etc.

I have no experience with palm trees, but figured it would be the same for maintainance etc as my rubber and said no thanks to the free trees, but in the future who knows what will happen with Bio fuel prices.

As for costs, what ever you think it will be times it by 3, then you will be close.

JIM

[garyhalm]

Dear All,

My Thai wife and myself are planning to grow a palm tree plantation near Surin

and would like as much advise as you can provide. The intention is to purchase

100 rai to start with (ideally in 1, 2 or 3 lot max provided not far from each other)

1) I think that first we must be very carefull with the type of land we want to purchase

(holding title paper) as well as the composition of the soil (deep, flat with good draining

properties and with good nutritional properties for the tress. TELL ME IF I AM MISSING

SOMETHING ABOUT THE SOIL). We would like her parents (who are rice farmers) to look

after the growing trees while we stay in Europe for the next 3 years (this is the time when

the tress will be giving their first fruits for oil extraction)

2) Is it possible to buy palm oil trees already 6 months old and at what unit costs and where.

( i have calculated that about 3'200 trees will be needed for a 100 rai plantation is

that right ? )

3) We must make sure that there will be a oil processing facilities not to far from the plantation in

order to minimize most probably the truck rental costs ( i understand that there is 1 palm oil

refinery near Surin, correct me if i am wrong)

4) In your opinion how many daily workers (including the father of my wife who will be the supervisor)

will be needed to take care of the plantation while the trees are growing and how much will be the

monthly pay roll for the workers.

5) the yield is about 4-5 tons per 6 rai every year but how much can we get from the oil processing

facilities if they do the extraction themself after we only bring them the fruits ?

6 ) Does anyone already involved in such business and where ?

Your expertise is most welcome,

with my best regards and best wishes for the new year.

Tato

[garyhalm]

Dear All,

My Thai wife and myself are planning to grow a palm tree plantation near Surin

and would like as much advise as you can provide. The intention is to purchase

100 rai to start with (ideally in 1, 2 or 3 lot max provided not far from each other)

1) I think that first we must be very carefull with the type of land we want to purchase

(holding title paper) as well as the composition of the soil (deep, flat with good draining

properties and with good nutritional properties for the tress. TELL ME IF I AM MISSING

SOMETHING ABOUT THE SOIL). We would like her parents (who are rice farmers) to look

after the growing trees while we stay in Europe for the next 3 years (this is the time when

the tress will be giving their first fruits for oil extraction)

2) Is it possible to buy palm oil trees already 6 months old and at what unit costs and where.

( i have calculated that about 3'200 trees will be needed for a 100 rai plantation is

that right ? )

3) We must make sure that there will be a oil processing facilities not to far from the plantation in

order to minimize most probably the truck rental costs ( i understand that there is 1 palm oil

refinery near Surin, correct me if i am wrong)

4) In your opinion how many daily workers (including the father of my wife who will be the supervisor)

will be needed to take care of the plantation while the trees are growing and how much will be the

monthly pay roll for the workers.

5) the yield is about 4-5 tons per 6 rai every year but how much can we get from the oil processing

facilities if they do the extraction themself after we only bring them the fruits ?

6 ) Does anyone already involved in such business and where ?

Your expertise is most welcome,

with my best regards and best wishes for the new year.

Tato

Tato and All,

I am new to this forum and this might be off topic, so if it is, or any of you can direct me to a better forum please do so. I don't know anything about farming, but I am pretty good at manufacturing. I am looking up at setting up local palm oil press and refining operations, possibly for local consumption of the oil. Can any of you direct me to small 'mom and pop' refineries in Thailand that I could visit to gain some experience?

Thanks,

Gary

[barrybike]

rubber trees are a better way to go i think............

[pnustedt]

2) Is it possible to buy palm oil trees already 6 months old and at what unit costs and where.

( i have calculated that about 3'200 trees will be needed for a 100 rai plantation is

that right ? )

There is a nursery selling 6 month old palms on the main road out of Kantaralak towards Kao Prah Vihean, a couple of kms on the left, their price last year was about Bt70 each. They will also give you lots of advice re: planting densities, soil conditions, fertilisers etc. and have printed info. to help you.

[jamescollister]

Hello Gary

Don't really know what you mean by a Ma & Pa processing of palm oil. I maybe wrong,but I can't recall anyone round here cooking with palm oil.

There are two parts to the berry. The pulp, which is used for soap,bio fuel and in food products.etc .Then there is the nut, which produces a much finer oil. For fuel you would be looking at a refinery and wth food you will be looking at compling with all sorts of gov. regulations. Thailand may be considered backward in some ways, but let me assure you they have the same laws, planning permission, safety inspections as the west. They may turn a blind eye to many things, but they can enforce these rules when they want. So I would say you are looking at a fairly big and expensive project.

You say you have experience in the manufacturing sector. You could help me. I have been looking at expanding my ribbed smoked rubber plant to do Tech specfic rubber. About 1000 kilos a day, but the smallest machinary I can find is 1500 kilos per hour and a price tag that goes with it. Any ideas. JIM

[arizonadave]

quoting "jamescollister"

I looked at palm earlier this year when the local Government offered us 800 free trees and could not see it as a winner. At the prices you get per kilo. That was even though I have the land to spare and the equipment for planting,clearing etc.

I have no experience with palm trees, but figured it would be the same for maintainance etc as my rubber and said no thanks to the free trees

Dear jamescollister,

Very very interested in your opinion on this. Here are some rough numbers I have come up with. At 25 trees/rai, 60 kilos/tree, 6 baht/kilo, translates to 9000 baht/rai/month during growing/rain season, times say 6 months, is 54,000/year. I hear net is something like 60% of gross which would be 9000 baht profit/rai/year.

If these numbers are in the ballpark I would consider that to be a good investment.

Very very interested in your opinion on this.

[jamescollister]

Hello Dave

Your figures make for interesting reading, I can't remember off hand how I worked out cost and profit at the time. [brain cells are drying off ] but I think the local price was a lot lower than 9 baht a kilo. Saying that I will have to have another look at palm oil . Will get back to you when I find out more. JIM

[jamescollister]

quoting "jamescollister"

I looked at palm earlier this year when the local Government offered us 800 free trees and could not see it as a winner. At the prices you get per kilo. That was even though I have the land to spare and the equipment for planting,clearing etc.

I have no experience with palm trees, but figured it would be the same for maintainance etc as my rubber and said no thanks to the free trees

Dear jamescollister,

Very very interested in your opinion on this. Here are some rough numbers I have come up with. At 25 trees/rai, 60 kilos/tree, 6 baht/kilo, translates to 9000 baht/rai/month during growing/rain season, times say 6 months, is 54,000/year. I hear net is something like 60% of gross which would be 9000 baht profit/rai/year.

If these numbers are in the ballpark I would consider that to be a good investment.

Very very interested in your opinion on this.

Dave

Had a word with the brother in-law, he says palm is going for 2.5 to 3 baht a kilo around here. We are along way from any oil processing plants, so you are stuck with the price the middle men give. I guess if you had a lot of friut it would pay to buy a 20 ton truck yourself. By the way where are you getting 6 baht a kilo,as I may look into just that. Buy rubber now, so could buy palm if I bought a big truck. JIM

[arizonadave]

Dave

Had a word with the brother in-law, he says palm is going for 2.5 to 3 baht a kilo around here. We are along way from any oil processing plants, so you are stuck with the price the middle men give. I guess if you had a lot of friut it would pay to buy a 20 ton truck yourself. By the way where are you getting 6 baht a kilo,as I may look into just that. Buy rubber now, so could buy palm if I bought a big truck. JIM

Jim,

Did a lot of searching and reading on the topic the day I posted. The 6 baht number was an average of the numbers I saw in those various articles which ranged anywhere from 2 to 10 baht! Your brother-in-law however has a real life on the ground number. 2.5-3 is a far cry from 6. That changes things considerably. Maybe I should be spending more time looking into growing rubber and less on growing oil.

[jamescollister]

Dave

I guess a bit of crystal ball gazing would be good, I seem to recall that when oil was tipped to go to 200 US a barrel the price of palm was up to 11 Baht a kilo ,at the factory gate,same with Taro[Mon sapalang] Pardon the spelling. Anything that was used for Bio fuel was booming. Rubber is also set to the price of oil, so if you can predict the price of oil you would know which way to go.

Rubber is a longer term investment and with the longer time comes larger costs before you get any return. If you try and do it on the cheap you will lose in the longer term. So do the maths before you start spending. JIM

[allcladrad]

Dave

I guess a bit of crystal ball gazing would be good, I seem to recall that when oil was tipped to go to 200 US a barrel the price of palm was up to 11 Baht a kilo ,at the factory gate,same with Taro[Mon sapalang] Pardon the spelling. Anything that was used for Bio fuel was booming. Rubber is also set to the price of oil, so if you can predict the price of oil you would know which way to go.

Rubber is a longer term investment and with the longer time comes larger costs before you get any return. If you try and do it on the cheap you will lose in the longer term. So do the maths before you start spending. JIM

I don't know if this will help, but I have 17 rai of palm and have averaged 100,000 baht gross a year for the last 5 years. Like all farming projects there are many variables and few guarantees. If there is any real return will be on the land price increase.

[jamescollister]

Dave

I guess a bit of crystal ball gazing would be good, I seem to recall that when oil was tipped to go to 200 US a barrel the price of palm was up to 11 Baht a kilo ,at the factory gate,same with Taro[Mon sapalang] Pardon the spelling. Anything that was used for Bio fuel was booming. Rubber is also set to the price of oil, so if you can predict the price of oil you would know which way to go.

Rubber is a longer term investment and with the longer time comes larger costs before you get any return. If you try and do it on the cheap you will lose in the longer term. So do the maths before you start spending. JIM

I don't know if this will help, but I have 17 rai of palm and have averaged 100,000 baht gross a year for the last 5 years. Like all farming projects there are many variables and few guarantees. If there is any real return will be on the land price increase.

I guess that about says it all, 100,000 baht minus costs wouldn't keep me in beer. Hope my rubber works out a bit better than that, or I will have to give up on the cold ones. JIM

[allcladrad]

I was headed down that rubber tree trail, bough 14 rai for 760,000 and cleared and planted, I water those little babies in the hot and trimmed them in the wet, hoed weeds, drained away water, fed them and replanted almost half of them, then one day a woman came by and offered 1.5 million and I was rubber tree free. My thought was quarter mil a year was to good to pass and I am not slave to the earth. Built 3 guest rooms and didn't look back.

Good luck with yours and consider draft beer, more convenient and half the price.

[jamescollister]

I was headed down that rubber tree trail, bough 14 rai for 760,000 and cleared and planted, I water those little babies in the hot and trimmed them in the wet, hoed weeds, drained away water, fed them and replanted almost half of them, then one day a woman came by and offered 1.5 million and I was rubber tree free. My thought was quarter mil a year was to good to pass and I am not slave to the earth. Built 3 guest rooms and didn't look back.

Good luck with yours and consider draft beer, more convenient and half the price.

No draft for 140 km [ubon] but you are very right about the price of improved land. Said to the father in-law last month that with the price of rubber being so bad we may have to sell the 50 rai plantation [charnote] He told me if I were to sell with the little factory. 10 Rai no problem 30,000,000. Of course being a greedy man I have decided to hold out until next year and see how things go. JIM

[coventry]

I was headed down that rubber tree trail, bough 14 rai for 760,000 and cleared and planted, I water those little babies in the hot and trimmed them in the wet, hoed weeds, drained away water, fed them and replanted almost half of them, then one day a woman came by and offered 1.5 million and I was rubber tree free. My thought was quarter mil a year was to good to pass and I am not slave to the earth. Built 3 guest rooms and didn't look back.

Good luck with yours and consider draft beer, more convenient and half the price.

No draft for 140 km [ubon] but you are very right about the price of improved land. Said to the father in-law last month that with the price of rubber being so bad we may have to sell the 50 rai plantation [charnote] He told me if I were to sell with the little factory. 10 Rai no problem 30,000,000. Of course being a greedy man I have decided to hold out until next year and see how things go. JIM

Have you got your sums right ?

[jamescollister]

I was headed down that rubber tree trail, bough 14 rai for 760,000 and cleared and planted, I water those little babies in the hot and trimmed them in the wet, hoed weeds, drained away water, fed them and replanted almost half of them, then one day a woman came by and offered 1.5 million and I was rubber tree free. My thought was quarter mil a year was to good to pass and I am not slave to the earth. Built 3 guest rooms and didn't look back.

Good luck with yours and consider draft beer, more convenient and half the price.

No draft for 140 km [ubon] but you are very right about the price of improved land. Said to the father in-law last month that with the price of rubber being so bad we may have to sell the 50 rai plantation [charnote] He told me if I were to sell with the little factory. 10 Rai no problem 30,000,000. Of course being a greedy man I have decided to hold out until next year and see how things go. JIM

Have you got your sums right ?

Yes Ubon is about 3 hours drive. don;t think there is any draft beer closer. jim

[yabaaaa]

2) Is it possible to buy palm oil trees already 6 months old and at what unit costs and where.

( i have calculated that about 3'200 trees will be needed for a 100 rai plantation is

that right ? )

There is a nursery selling 6 month old palms on the main road out of Kantaralak towards Kao Prah Vihean, a couple of kms on the left, their price last year was about Bt70 each. They will also give you lots of advice re: planting densities, soil conditions, fertilisers etc. and have printed info. to help you.

Best palm fertiliser is 3-1-3 ratio (npk) +mg and trace elements

[oldsailor35]

quoting "jamescollister"

I looked at palm earlier this year when the local Government offered us 800 free trees and could not see it as a winner. At the prices you get per kilo. That was even though I have the land to spare and the equipment for planting,clearing etc.

I have no experience with palm trees, but figured it would be the same for maintainance etc as my rubber and said no thanks to the free trees

Dear jamescollister,

Very very interested in your opinion on this. Here are some rough numbers I have come up with. At 25 trees/rai, 60 kilos/tree, 6 baht/kilo, translates to 9000 baht/rai/month during growing/rain season, times say 6 months, is 54,000/year. I hear net is something like 60% of gross which would be 9000 baht profit/rai/year.

If these numbers are in the ballpark I would consider that to be a good investment.

Very very interested in your opinion on this.

Dave

Had a word with the brother in-law, he says palm is going for 2.5 to 3 baht a kilo around here. We are along way from any oil processing plants, so you are stuck with the price the middle men give. I guess if you had a lot of friut it would pay to buy a 20 ton truck yourself. By the way where are you getting 6 baht a kilo,as I may look into just that. Buy rubber now, so could buy palm if I bought a big truck. JIM

Last week , end of jan 2011, father inn law was getting 9 bht per kilo...............very profitable indeed.

[jamescollister]

quoting "jamescollister"

I looked at palm earlier this year when the local Government offered us 800 free trees and could not see it as a winner. At the prices you get per kilo. That was even though I have the land to spare and the equipment for planting,clearing etc.

I have no experience with palm trees, but figured it would be the same for maintainance etc as my rubber and said no thanks to the free trees

Dear jamescollister,

Very very interested in your opinion on this. Here are some rough numbers I have come up with. At 25 trees/rai, 60 kilos/tree, 6 baht/kilo, translates to 9000 baht/rai/month during growing/rain season, times say 6 months, is 54,000/year. I hear net is something like 60% of gross which would be 9000 baht profit/rai/year.

If these numbers are in the ballpark I would consider that to be a good investment.

Very very interested in your opinion on this.

Dave

Had a word with the brother in-law, he says palm is going for 2.5 to 3 baht a kilo around here. We are along way from any oil processing plants, so you are stuck with the price the middle men give. I guess if you had a lot of friut it would pay to buy a 20 ton truck yourself. By the way where are you getting 6 baht a kilo,as I may look into just that. Buy rubber now, so could buy palm if I bought a big truck. JIM

Last week , end of jan 2011, father inn law was getting 9 bht per kilo...............very profitable indeed.

Any ideas I had on palm oil have long gone. The price of land in my area has gone through the roof ergo it would take 10 to 15 years to recoup the costs. Luckily my rubber is doing fine and will pay for me to sit drinking beer for the rest of my l;ife. Jim

[Mosha]

Last week it was 11.60 now down around 8Bt/Kg around my home.

[kelboy]

HI

anyone growing near sukhothai?also where can i buy some

trees and where the nearest place to sell?

thanks alot.

[oldsailor35]

Last week it was 11.60 now down around 8Bt/Kg around my home.

Cannot understand that Mosha. F in L was very happy with 7 bht a couple of weeks ago which went up to 9 bht kilo. He has never mentioned 11.60.............but then he is Chinese lololol

[oldsailor35]

Last week it was 11.60 now down around 8Bt/Kg around my home.

[oldsailor35]

2) Is it possible to buy palm oil trees already 6 months old and at what unit costs and where.

( i have calculated that about 3'200 trees will be needed for a 100 rai plantation is

that right ? )

There is a nursery selling 6 month old palms on the main road out of Kantaralak towards Kao Prah Vihean, a couple of kms on the left, their price last year was about Bt70 each. They will also give you lots of advice re: planting densities, soil conditions, fertilisers etc. and have printed info. to help you.

Kantaralak ! is'nt that somewhere in Isaan ? If so, i have read that there is not enough rainfall (very important) in that area. Can someone please inform me on this one. I believe that the govt., did look at Palm Oil in Isaan, but dumped the idea as unsuitable. It appears that it is only viable from Chumpon south.