With a 'stonking performance', Britain's May wins stay of execution

[ResandePohm]

19 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

My whole argument about this situation is why can't the EU country provide the loan to its citizens, for the education, then there would be no problem and no 89 million to collect. Also that is just on loans defaulted not on the total figure.

The majority of countries in the EU do not charge their students for studying. Universities are free. Only non EU students are charged.

This means that should a British citizens study at their universities there are no charges. I have two sons who studied medicine in Sweden. No University fees to pay. However they could have applied for a student loan to cover living expenses but both decided to work in their free time to cover these expenses. They both worked as Paramedics and in Hospitals abroad (Uganda, Nicaragua, etc.) to help provide medical facilities in those countries. To study like this is an excelent way to get a good qualification as well as all the benifits to their character of being an expat. The EU rule is whatever they do for their own citizens they also do for any other EU citizens.

Many University courses in the EU are carried out in English i.e. Medicine, Economics, Accountancy. All proper degrees (not your pathetic Media Studies or even Green Keeping which British students take to get an easy degree) so the argument of Language barriers is not valid. It is the British policy that is wrong not the EU countries. The British policy of having 100% University educated population is ridiculous and just dumbs down the quality of a higher education.

 

[Grouse]

53 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I didn't put a link, as I knew that it was in the 80 million pounds range. It is not foreign students owing the money but those from the EU. Chinese, USA  etc don't get loans from the UK student loan body, they are not in the EU as you know.  As the amount of money to your link owing loans, Students outside of the EU contribute a lot, if not more than the EU students. That is my point

 

I put a link to the behavior of foreign students at a university. I am sure you can work it out if your puzzled.

 

So German students defecate in showers? Is that your point?

[Grouse]

46 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

My whole argument about this situation is why can't the EU country provide the loan to its citizens, for the education, then there would be no problem and no 89 million to collect. Also that is just on loans defaulted not on the total figure.

2% ?

[dunroaming]

8 hours ago, nausea said:

The new message seems to be that the concerns of the whole country need to be taken into account, not just those of Brexit hardliners. 

She has certainly changed her language.  Now saying that she will serve for as long as the party wants her to.  It also seems that she realises that she has to have cross party talks if she hopes get anything through parliament.  A soft Brexit now looks to be on the cards and in fact none of the Tories are even mentioning a hard brexit anymore.

 

I think that May coming out and openly saying "I got us into this mess and I will get us out of it" doesn't cut much ice because it is unlikely she can do that.  But first of all she still has to try to agree terms with the DUP who see this as an opportunity to milk the situation for all it's worth.

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, ResandePohm said:

The majority of countries in the EU do not charge their students for studying. Universities are free. Only non EU students are charged.<snip>

AFAIK this is correct for (some of) the Scandinavian countries, not for the rest of Europe.

[ResandePohm]

Just now, stevenl said:

AFAIK this is correct for (some of) the Scandinavian countries, not for the rest of Europe.

I didnt say all but the majority. All Scandinavian countries, Holland, Bulgaria are the ones my sons looked into and I am sure there are more. It just needs the lazy Brit student to get off his rump and do a little research

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

Radio 4 Today.

 

Just raise legal barriers as previously discussed. Get students off the immigration stats. Bear down on non EU immigration. Basta!

 

3 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Well, that does sound politically feasible.

Exactly, its going to be worked out by those invested in the remain cause.

 

May's "stonking performance" is because she has agreed to the ideas of the majority-  i.e a bad agreement is better than no agreement.

 

I'd bet (small amounts) of money that the most hated aspects of the EU will be retained/and the UK will end up paying similar amounts of money.....

 

Of course the electorate will be 'drip fed' throughout the next two years as to how the UK will crash without the EU - and the electorate will be so tired of the whole thing - so that more than a few won't care anymore.

 

I'm pretty sure this is MPs' /corporate strategy.

[Laughing Gravy]

17 minutes ago, ResandePohm said:

The majority of countries in the EU do not charge their students for studying. Universities are free. Only non EU students are charged.

This means that should a British citizens study at their universities there are no charges. I have two sons who studied medicine in Sweden. No University fees to pay. However they could have applied for a student loan to cover living expenses but both decided to work in their free time to cover these expenses. They both worked as Paramedics and in Hospitals abroad (Uganda, Nicaragua, etc.) to help provide medical facilities in those countries. To study like this is an excelent way to get a good qualification as well as all the benifits to their character of being an expat. The EU rule is whatever they do for their own citizens they also do for any other EU citizens.

Many University courses in the EU are carried out in English i.e. Medicine, Economics, Accountancy. All proper degrees (not your pathetic Media Studies or even Green Keeping which British students take to get an easy degree) so the argument of Language barriers is not valid. It is the British policy that is wrong not the EU countries. The British policy of having 100% University educated population is ridiculous and just dumbs down the quality of a higher education.

 

I agree most don't pay for fees.

 

Are your sons classed as Swedish citizens or can anyone get free fees. Yes the loans they would still have to get.

 

I will also agree with you that the policy of having everyone as a university graduate has 'dumbed the whole system down'

 

Just for your info if you didn't know..

 

.https://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees

[Laughing Gravy]

17 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So German students defecate in showers? Is that your point?

Show me where I said that. If you don't know my point then it doesn't matter. It is pointless!

[ResandePohm]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

 

Exactly, its going to be worked out by those invested in the remain cause.

 

May's "stonking performance" is because she has agreed to the ideas of the majority-  i.e a bad agreement is better than no agreement.

 

I'd bet (small amounts) of money that the most hated aspects of the EU will be retained/and the UK will end up paying similar amounts of money.....

 

Of course the electorate will be 'drip fed' throughout the next two years as to how the UK will crash without the EU - and the electorate will be so tired of the whole thing - so that more than a few won't care anymore.

 

I'm pretty sure this is MPs' /corporate strategy.

Dick I agree with you absolutely. I just hope that May is up to getting such agreement in place.

 

I also do not believe that Brexit will have a radical effect on immgration, which basically the Brexit vote was about. Britain will not/cannot repatriate all the EU citizens in the UK. If it did you would have millions of Brit expats in Spain and Frrance etc who will be heading back to the UK after they also are kicked out. Who will pay to support them - the British taxpayer of course. The UK needs these EU immigrants to sustain the British economy. Try to get the lazy Brit to pick fruit or work in hotels for the wages that are currently paid.

 

Non EU immigration will not change. All the Afgans and Pakistanies will still be trying to get to Britain. The only difference is that fewer will be using Calais as the point of entry.

[ResandePohm]

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I agree most don't pay for fees.

 

Are your sons classed as Swedish citizens or can anyone get free fees. Yes the loans they would still have to get.

 

I will also agree with you that the policy of having everyone as a university graduate has 'dumbed the whole system down'

 

Just for your info if you didn't know..

 

.https://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees

My sons are crrently classed as British citizens however, any EU citizen can study there without paying any tuition fees. They both attended the top  Swedish Universities for Medicine and now have an internationally recognised degree in medicine.

 

I doubt however that they will return to the UK to work with the current state of the NHS and will probably obtain Swedish citizenship as Sweden is not leaving the EU. That way they can retain the financial benifits that the EU offers its citizens.

 

Thanks for the link. I did not do the research for my sons they did it themselves. More Brits should do it in my opinion

[dunroaming]

The rot started the day that Cameron promised the referendum.  Profoundly stupid and he was warned that it would be at the time.  It split the country and that split gets deeper all the time.  That has been starkly illustrated with the result of this latest election.  The country is in a mess and people need to pull together but it isn't going to happen.

 

Yesterday the NHS announced that it's recruitment from EU countries has now fallen by 95% because EU citizens are unsure if they will be able to stay in the UK after Brexit.  This is yet another hit for the NHS and will make getting proper treatment even harder.  First thing that should be guaranteed is that all EU citizens working in the UK have their residence status written in stone.  Without those skilled doctors and nurses the NHS will collapse.  Just one example of how delicate our situation is.

[stevenl]

46 minutes ago, ResandePohm said:

I didnt say all but the majority. All Scandinavian countries, Holland, Bulgaria are the ones my sons looked into and I am sure there are more. It just needs the lazy Brit student to get off his rump and do a little research

I'm Dutch, so know about this a little bit. No, you're wrong, no free education. You're the one who needs to do some research.

[ResandePohm]

Just now, stevenl said:

I'm Dutch, so know about this a little bit. No, you're wrong, no free education. You're the one who needs to do some research.

As I have said I did not do the research myself. I know that Holland was one of the countries that my sons considered. I do not need to do any research in the matter as I am well past studying for a new degree. Although I do plan to attend a course at a Thai University next year.

 

If it is really of concern to you here is a link

https://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, ResandePohm said:

As I have said I did not do the research myself. I know that Holland was one of the countries that my sons considered. I do not need to do any research in the matter as I am well past studying for a new degree. Although I do plan to attend a course at a Thai University next year.

 

If it is really of concern to you here is a link

https://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees

Thanks, it is (not yet) a concern to me. I was only pointing out that your claim and thereby your argument was incorrect.

 

Agree with you about immigration. The vote was for a big part made about that, with totally incorrect arguments.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Show me where I said that. If you don't know my point then it doesn't matter. It is pointless!

 

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Show me where I said that. If you don't know my point then it doesn't matter. It is pointless!

Just pulling your leg!

[Prbkk]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

So German students defecate in showers? Is that your point?

...?

[evadgib]

Seen this....?

 

SINN Fein’s seven MPs will fly into London today to take up their Commons offices – sparking Tory fears they may try to wreck the Prime Minister’s wafer thin majority.

The Sun can also reveal the Irish Republican party have refused to rule out taking their seats for the first time to vote through a Labour Queen’s Speech if Jeremy Corbyn offered them a referendum on unifying Ireland.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3786046/sinn-feins-mps-fly-to-london-to-take-up-their-westminster-offices-sparking-fears-they-will-wreck-plans-for-a-tory-dup-majority/

[dunroaming]

9 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Seen this....?

 

SINN Fein’s seven MPs will fly into London today to take up their Commons offices – sparking Tory fears they may try to wreck the Prime Minister’s wafer thin majority.

The Sun can also reveal the Irish Republican party have refused to rule out taking their seats for the first time to vote through a Labour Queen’s Speech if Jeremy Corbyn offered them a referendum on unifying Ireland.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3786046/sinn-feins-mps-fly-to-london-to-take-up-their-westminster-offices-sparking-fears-they-will-wreck-plans-for-a-tory-dup-majority/

The Sun?  Wouldn't get too excited about what the tabloids have to say in the UK.

[evadgib]

48 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

The Sun?  Wouldn't get too excited about what the tabloids have to say in the UK.

I hope the Chingford Skinhead is in the house & BBC Parliament rolling if they have the gaul to turn up.

Edited June 13, 2017 by evadgib

[simon43]

Quote

 

The majority of countries in the EU do not charge their students for studying. Universities are free. Only non EU students are charged.
 

 

 

Slightly off-topic:

 

The important sentence is the last one.  For Bachelor and post-grad degrees in Scandanavian countries, EU citizens are not charged tuition fees.  Nor do you have to be living in the EU either.

 

I know from personal experience because I will start a distance learning M.Ed (2 years part-time) degree this August with a university in Sweden.  All tuition fees are waived because I'm an EU citizen (until Brexit kicks in!).  But I'm physically living in Myanmar.

 

Update:  You also don't have to be a fresh-faced youngster to be accepted on the course - I'm 58 years old :)

Edited June 13, 2017 by simon43

[baboon]

6 hours ago, dunroaming said:

 

Yesterday the NHS announced that it's recruitment from EU countries has now fallen by 95% because EU citizens are unsure if they will be able to stay in the UK after Brexit.  This is yet another hit for the NHS and will make getting proper treatment even harder.  First thing that should be guaranteed is that all EU citizens working in the UK have their residence status written in stone.  Without those skilled doctors and nurses the NHS will collapse.  Just one example of how delicate our situation is.

Well there is the residency issue, but don't forget the GBPs they are / were sending home is worth a whole lot less. Too many immigrants? Simple, just make the country such a crappy place to live that nobody will want to come anymore...

[tonbridgebrit]

10 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I didn't put a link, as I knew that it was in the 80 million pounds range. It is not foreign students owing the money but those from the EU. Chinese, USA  etc don't get loans from the UK student loan body, they are not in the EU as you know.  As the amount of money to your link owing loans, Students outside of the EU contribute a lot, if not more than the EU students. That is my point

 

I put a link to the behavior of foreign students at a university. I am sure you can work it out if your puzzled.

 

Okay, we're talking about foreign students. Some of the Brexiteers are against immigration, and they might be against the large number of foreign students in England. We've got to bear in mind that Brexiteers who are against immigration/students, are mainly against the coloured immigrants/students.  Basically, the coloured immigrants/students are from non-EU countries. The vast bulk of the EU students who are in England, are not coloured.

It's a bit silly to think that Brexit was linked massively to immigration, and that it was mainly coloured foreigners who were the main issue. And yet, Brexit will do almost nothing to reduce the number of coloured immigrants/students. Britain already has massive control over coloureds (that's non-EU people) coming into Britain. Brexit won't make Britain's control any greater. Brexit will simply reduce the number of white migrants (from the EU) coming into Britain.


Back to Boris. I reckon Boris certainly still wants to be prime minister. Remember, Theresa May knows this. Supposedly, she wanted Boris out of the cabinet. If the Conservatives had of got a landslide victory, well, I think May would have removed Boris. Right now, May is almost powerless, she needs Boris more than Boris needs her. Got to keep him in the cabinet, even though Boris is planning some type of take-over. Boris needs to see somebody remove May, and then, then Boris will take part in the leadership race.  :)
 

[dunroaming]

3 hours ago, baboon said:

Well there is the residency issue, but don't forget the GBPs they are / were sending home is worth a whole lot less. Too many immigrants? Simple, just make the country such a crappy place to live that nobody will want to come anymore...

As long as people who work in Britain pay taxes and national insurance in Britain, where they then send their money is nobody's business but theirs.  Same goes for all the Brits living abroad, where they send their money is their business.

 

As for making Britain a crappy place to live?  What would be the point of that.  To put off the doctors and nurses and other professionals that come here?

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Okay, we're talking about foreign students. Some of the Brexiteers are against immigration, and they might be against the large number of foreign students in England. We've got to bear in mind that Brexiteers who are against immigration/students, are mainly against the coloured immigrants/students.  Basically, the coloured immigrants/students are from non-EU countries. The vast bulk of the EU students who are in England, are not coloured.

It's a bit silly to think that Brexit was linked massively to immigration, and that it was mainly coloured foreigners who were the main issue. And yet, Brexit will do almost nothing to reduce the number of coloured immigrants/students. Britain already has massive control over coloureds (that's non-EU people) coming into Britain. Brexit won't make Britain's control any greater. Brexit will simply reduce the number of white migrants (from the EU) coming into Britain.


Back to Boris. I reckon Boris certainly still wants to be prime minister. Remember, Theresa May knows this. Supposedly, she wanted Boris out of the cabinet. If the Conservatives had of got a landslide victory, well, I think May would have removed Boris. Right now, May is almost powerless, she needs Boris more than Boris needs her. Got to keep him in the cabinet, even though Boris is planning some type of take-over. Boris needs to see somebody remove May, and then, then Boris will take part in the leadership race.  :)
 

 

My opinion, based on experiece of living in the UK at the mo, is that skin colour hardly comes into the equation, and that colour racism is just a fantasy excuse used by remainers. Hell, we even had one particular blowhard remainer on here telling us that us ethnic Brits have far more in common than Latvians than we do with Indians. Eh???? What do we have even remotely in common with Latvians other than a similar skin colour? Whilst our historical relationship with India has been chequered, to put it euphemistically, we have a wealth of shared culture going back a couple of hundred years. And Indians in the UK tend to integrate, work hard, achieve, and become staunchly patriotic, without forgetting their origins: just the sort of migrants we want.

 

In my opinion, if you want to understand the real issues with mass migration into the UK from Europe, read the posts of dick dasterdly. It's all about the colour of money, not skin.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

As long as people who work in Britain pay taxes and national insurance in Britain, where they then send their money is nobody's business but theirs.  Same goes for all the Brits living abroad, where they send their money is their business.

 

I agree. There are some abuses, such as claiming benefits for family members not physically in the UK, which need to be properly addressed. But otherwise it's the individual's call.

[baboon]

6 hours ago, dunroaming said:

As long as people who work in Britain pay taxes and national insurance in Britain, where they then send their money is nobody's business but theirs.  Same goes for all the Brits living abroad, where they send their money is their business.

 

As for making Britain a crappy place to live?  What would be the point of that.  To put off the doctors and nurses and other professionals that come here?

I couldn't agree more. What I meant was, why would, say a Romanian doctor go to the UK when he could go to the likes of Germany and have more money in real terms to send home?

My second 'point' was just a little gallows humour.

[pitrevie]

5 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

My opinion, based on experiece of living in the UK at the mo, is that skin colour hardly comes into the equation, and that colour racism is just a fantasy excuse used by remainers. Hell, we even had one particular blowhard remainer on here telling us that us ethnic Brits have far more in common than Latvians than we do with Indians. Eh???? What do we have even remotely in common with Latvians other than a similar skin colour? Whilst our historical relationship with India has been chequered, to put it euphemistically, we have a wealth of shared culture going back a couple of hundred years. And Indians in the UK tend to integrate, work hard, achieve, and become staunchly patriotic, without forgetting their origins: just the sort of migrants we want.

 

In my opinion, if you want to understand the real issues with mass migration into the UK from Europe, read the posts of dick dasterdly. It's all about the colour of money, not skin.

Yeah probably why Boris made such play of Turkey joining the EU and their entire population moving to the UK. Or that wonderful poster from UKIP showing an endless line of people all of whom seemed to have very deep sun tans. But nothing to do with skin colour.

[tonbridgebrit]

11 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

My opinion, based on experiece of living in the UK at the mo, is that skin colour hardly comes into the equation, and that colour racism is just a fantasy excuse used by remainers. Hell, we even had one particular blowhard remainer on here telling us that us ethnic Brits have far more in common than Latvians than we do with Indians. Eh???? What do we have even remotely in common with Latvians other than a similar skin colour? Whilst our historical relationship with India has been chequered, to put it euphemistically, we have a wealth of shared culture going back a couple of hundred years. And Indians in the UK tend to integrate, work hard, achieve, and become staunchly patriotic, without forgetting their origins: just the sort of migrants we want.

 

In my opinion, if you want to understand the real issues with mass migration into the UK from Europe, read the posts of dick dasterdly. It's all about the colour of money, not skin.

I think we should be honest here.
Immigration was one of the big issues in the Brexit vote. I reckon one-fith (or more) of all those who voted for Brexit do actually feel "look, I've only got a small problem with them Polish and other East Europeans turning up in Britain, what I don't like is more coloureds turning up in my England, being in the EU means that we've lost control of our borders, the EU is causing more and more coloureds to come into our country, so, we've got to get out of that EU".

But, Britain has already got almost total control over the non-EU migrants coming into Britain, the coloured ones are nearly all non-EU migrants. Britain pulling out of the EU does not mean that Britain will have more power to reduce coloured immigrants entering Britain. Britain already has nearly full power to do this.

I accept that lots of Brexiteers do feel "I don't care if they're from Poland or Africa, I just don't want lots more of them in Britain". But some do feel that it's the coloureds who need to be stopped. Some people noticed them coloureds in Calais, trying to get into England. And them boats carrying black people from North Africa across the Mediterranean Sea. This is what some people didn't like.


Back to Boris. I reckon Boris was never really a full supporter of Brexit. He is a highly ambitious man, wanting to be prime minister.  He reckoned that the referendum was NOT going to bring about Brexit. But he joined in with Brexit, knowing that he was the most high profile supporter of Brexit, and this would give him massive publicity and credit. He was banking on the vote being (just about, marginally) in favour for staying in. And then, Cameron would give him (Boris) a senior position in the cabinet, to silence (or placate) the Brexiteers and to unify the country (unify the Brexiteers and Remainers).

Edited June 14, 2017 by tonbridgebrit

[rockingrobin]

47 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

I think we should be honest here.
Immigration was one of the big issues in the Brexit vote. I reckon one-fith (or more) of all those who voted for Brexit do actually feel "look, I've only got a small problem with them Polish and other East Europeans turning up in Britain, what I don't like is more coloureds turning up in my England, being in the EU means that we've lost control of our borders, the EU is causing more and more coloureds to come into our country, so, we've got to get out of that EU".

But, Britain has already got almost total control over the non-EU migrants coming into Britain, the coloured ones are nearly all non-EU migrants. Britain pulling out of the EU does not mean that Britain will have more power to reduce coloured immigrants entering Britain. Britain already has nearly full power to do this.

I accept that lots of Brexiteers do feel "I don't care if they're from Poland or Africa, I just don't want lots more of them in Britain". But some do feel that it's the coloureds who need to be stopped. Some people noticed them coloureds in Calais, trying to get into England. And them boats carrying black people from North Africa across the Mediterranean Sea. This is what some people didn't like.


Back to Boris. I reckon Boris was never really a full supporter of Brexit. He is a highly ambitious man, wanting to be prime minister.  He reckoned that the referendum was NOT going to bring about Brexit. But he joined in with Brexit, knowing that he was the most high profile supporter of Brexit, and this would give him massive publicity and credit. He was banking on the vote being (just about, marginally) in favour for staying in. And then, Cameron would give him (Boris) a senior position in the cabinet, to silence (or placate) the Brexiteers and to unify the country (unify the Brexiteers and Remainers).

With regards Boris, what as to be considered is D.Cameron's announcement that he would not be standing for a third term.Which inevitably meant that a leadership contest would take place. The referndum opened an opportunity for Boris to pursue is ambitions , and if the result had gone the other way he could have declared that he was the only candidate that could unify the Conservatives factions.