France's Macron says EU door remains open to UK

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

You can believe what you want to believe, At the end of the day if an agreement is not met by all parties, there is a good chance of an hard brexit, even an EU spokesperson has stated this.

Also you can believe what you want.

 

But objective statements should be true, and yours is doubtful at best. Hence the request for a link, not forthcoming, adding more doubt to your statement.

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Also you can believe what you want.

 

But objective statements should be true, and yours is doubtful at best. Hence the request for a link, not forthcoming, adding more doubt to your statement.

I have linked it three times now, sorry you were out.

Edited June 15, 2017 by vogie

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

So you're not ha[[y with that then?

In other words, you've got nothing.,

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

A more recent yougov study:

 

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/world/2017/04/27/yougov-britons-regret-brexit-decision/

This is from a Malaysian news,right,so I' m not at all surprised. Here in Thailand the Bangkok Post over the last year, has featured many articles regarding Briexit, all written by so called political correspondants. Everyone of them has had a bias against the democratic wish of the electorate.

However two days ago the Bangkok post, surpassed themselves, by printing an article by Dennis MacShane. Who the newspaper correctly pointed out was the Labour government Minister of State for Europe from 2003 until 2005. What they forgot to mention is that this ex-M.P is a convicted criminal, having served time in 2013 for fiddling his expenses. Even more damming is the fact that he was the M.P  

for Rotherham during the period when the pedeophiles from the religion of death where given a free rein to abuse young vulnerable girls. And what did this M.P. do. 

He tried, successfully, for a number of years to cover up, and surpress knowledge of what was taking place. Yet now we are supposed to take him seriously,and accept his words of wisdom, on how good the EU is for the U.K.

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, nontabury said:

This is from a Malaysian news,right,so I' m not at all surprised. Here in Thailand the Bangkok Post over the last year, has featured many articles regarding Briexit, all written by so called political correspondants. Everyone of them has had a bias against the democratic wish of the electorate.

However two days ago the Bangkok post, surpassed themselves, by printing an article by Dennis MacShane. Who the newspaper correctly pointed out was the Labour government Minister of State for Europe from 2003 until 2005. What they forgot to mention is that this ex-M.P is a convicted criminal, having served time in 2013 for fiddling his expenses. Even more damming is the fact that he was the M.P  

for Rotherham during the period when the pedeophiles from the religion of death where given a free rein to abuse young vulnerable girls. And what did this M.P. do. 

He tried, successfully, for a number of years to cover up, and surpress knowledge of what was taking place. Yet now we are supposed to take him seriously,and accept his words of wisdom, on how good the EU is for the U.K.

This is an article that the Malaysians picked up from Agence France Presse

But if you like, here is the same information from bloomberg.com

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-04-27/u-k-regrets-brexit-for-first-time-since-referendum-poll-says

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

This is from a Malaysian news,right,so I' m not at all surprised. Here in Thailand the Bangkok Post over the last year, has featured many articles regarding Briexit, all written by so called political correspondants. Everyone of them has had a bias against the democratic wish of the electorate.

However two days ago the Bangkok post, surpassed themselves, by printing an article by Dennis MacShane. Who the newspaper correctly pointed out was the Labour government Minister of State for Europe from 2003 until 2005. What they forgot to mention is that this ex-M.P is a convicted criminal, having served time in 2013 for fiddling his expenses. Even more damming is the fact that he was the M.P  

for Rotherham during the period when the pedeophiles from the religion of death where given a free rein to abuse young vulnerable girls. And what did this M.P. do. 

He tried, successfully, for a number of years to cover up, and surpress knowledge of what was taking place. Yet now we are supposed to take him seriously,and accept his words of wisdom, on how good the EU is for the U.K.

No, this is a poll from yougov in the UK, the same source that everyone is quoting to try and claim people are in favour of leaving. The fact that the link is to a Malaysian paper is irrelevant. 

 

Equally irrelevant is Denis McShane's background (though I don't disagree with your comments regarding him personally). Another major campaigner on remaining is Tony Blair who I loathe, but just happens to hold the same viewpoint on this issue. A better article which hopefully won't get your hackles rising is the opinion piece in the same paper from Wednesday 14th - Gwynne Dyer (May's mess), in which he summarises the current situation very clearly.

http://www.pressreader.com/thailand/bangkok-post/20170614/281771334174450

Edited June 15, 2017 by lamyai3

[lamyai3]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

Thanks for that, tomorrow there will be another, very hard to keep up sometimes, but having said that, there's hardly a gnats hair between them, hardly conclusive. Did it say that more people still prefer the hard brexit?

If you can find a more recent poll that backs your claim that the majority is still in favour of leaving please let us know. Otherwise it's highly disingenuous to attempt to mislead people by referencing an older survey. Public opinion is definitely changing, and not in the way you want. 

 

As to hard Brexit, this is widely considered to be off the table now after May's genius snap election. 

[Airbagwill]

On 2017-6-14 at 10:18 PM, vogie said:

So basically what you have said comes from where, nowhere? give me the credit of at least coming up with some facts, even if they are not to your liking. We are leaving the EU and it might be a good idea to listen to the majority that has chosen to leave, how ever much it must hurt your pride. 

The election gas shown that remain is now the dominant wish.

The referendum was at best an unconstitutional aberration.

In the end Brexit will not happen. In a few weeks or a few years Brexitwers will realise the UK is still part of the EU 

In the meantime it might be worth considering g the legality if trying to implement legislation that puts the nation in peril.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

This just about suns (sums) up the position of the UK thanks to Brexit.....a xenophobic comedy show......   http://m.spiegel.de/international/europe/death-of-brexit-at-the-hands-of-theresa-may-a-1152330.html

Edited June 16, 2017 by Airbagwill

[stevenl]

8 hours ago, vogie said:

I have linked it three times now, sorry you were out.

Not in this thread since you made your statement.

[vogie]

6 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

If you can find a more recent poll that backs your claim that the majority is still in favour of leaving please let us know. Otherwise it's highly disingenuous to attempt to mislead people by referencing an older survey. Public opinion is definitely changing, and not in the way you want. 

 

As to hard Brexit, this is widely considered to be off the table now after May's genius snap election. 

Public opinion probably changes more times than you change your socks, and its not in the way I want, its in the way you want. Just to reiterate, we are leaving, and we may not have a choice in the deal we secure at the end of the day, unless you are privy to information the rest of us are not?

[rixalex]

13 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Of course before negotiations start, a referendum which would give the public a far clearer picture of what they are voting for, which was completely missing in the original referendum. If a new referendum resulted in the repeating of a leave vote, not only would I accept the result, I'd eat my hat for good measure. 

There can't be a far clearer picture until the negotiations take place. Until then, it's all speculation.

 

Regarding your pledge to accept the results of another referendum, maybe you would but i'm sure a lot of people wouldn't. Especially if the vote was to remain. You'd then have all the Brexiters doing exactly what the remainers are doing now... argue that the vote was in some way not fair and that another referendum was needed to settle things once and for all. Best out of three. And when we are done with that, how about best out of five?

 

Your idea sets a precedent: one referendum is not enough. It would make every future referendum a complete waste of time, because everyone would know that the outcome of the vote might well be ignored. What's the point in voting if that's the case?

[vogie]

55 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

The election gas shown that remain is now the dominant wish.

The referendum was at best an unconstitutional aberration.

In the end Brexit will not happen. In a few weeks or a few years Brexitwers will realise the UK is still part of the EU 

In the meantime it might be worth considering g the legality if trying to implement legislation that puts the nation in peril.

There there, you keep believing that if it makes you happy, the realist among us know different. 

[lamyai3]

2 minutes ago, rixalex said:

There can't be a far clearer picture until the negotiations take place. Until then, it's all speculation.

 

Regarding your pledge to accept the results of another referendum, maybe you would but i'm sure a lot of people wouldn't. Especially if the vote was to remain. You'd then have all the Brexiters doing exactly what the remainers are doing now... argue that the vote was in some way not fair and that another referendum was needed to settle things once and for all. Best out of three. And when we are done with that, how about best out of five?

 

Your idea sets a precedent: one referendum is not enough. It would make every future referendum a complete waste of time, because everyone would know that the outcome of the vote might well be ignored. What's the point in voting if that's the case?

That's democracy. Best out of three sounds great, and I'll happily take the five. This is not like a regular election, the implications are hugely more important, and the public needs to know what they're actually signing up for. 

[lamyai3]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

Public opinion probably changes more times than you change your socks, and its not in the way I want, its in the way you want. Just to reiterate, we are leaving, and we may not have a choice in the deal we secure at the end of the day, unless you are privy to information the rest of us are not?

Fully agree about the sway of public opinion. The more recent poll negates your recent posts that people are more in favour of leaving than ever. It's absurd that a second vote is not being considered at this stage. 

[rixalex]

8 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

That's democracy. Best out of three sounds great, and I'll happily take the five. This is not like a regular election, the implications are hugely more important, and the public needs to know what they're actually signing up for. 

A perpetual cycle of referendums. Wonderful.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion though that once you have the outcome you approve of, your appetite for more referendums might suddenly curiously wane.

[lamyai3]

3 minutes ago, rixalex said:

A perpetual cycle of referendums. Wonderful.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion though that once you have the outcome you approve of, your appetite for more referendums might suddenly curiously wane.

Naturally. Just a single, honest referendum with full implications laid out would do it for me. 

[rixalex]

15 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Do you realize what it is you just said? That if it comes to a hard Brexit, the people of the UK would rather remain in the EU. Quite a concession on your part.

I don't think there are many, bar a few extremists, whose first choice is the hardest possible Brexit.

 

Just because people might not want a hard Brexit, does not mean they want to remain in the EU.

[rixalex]

11 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Naturally. Just a single, honest referendum with full implications laid out would do it for me. 

Unless you are psychic it's impossible to know the full implications. Nobody does, not even the "experts". Full speculations is all you'll ever get.

[lamyai3]

30 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Unless you are psychic it's impossible to know the full implications. Nobody does, not even the "experts". Full speculations is all you'll ever get.

The picture is a whole lot clearer now than a year ago. Remember the extra £350 million a week to the NHS promises? All we've heard since is cuts to the current funding levels. These were the campaign slogans Brexit was voted in on, and they've been exposed as bare faced lies. 

[nontabury]

9 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

The picture is a whole lot clearer now than a year ago. Remember the extra £350 million a week to the NHS promises? All we've heard since is cuts to the current funding levels. These were the campaign slogans Brexit was voted in on, and they've been exposed as bare faced lies. 

And remember all those denials by the remain side regarding the forming of a E.U military force etc.,  Very similar to 1975 when the electorate were conned into agreeing to join a Trading Union.

Fool me once shame on you,fool me twice shame on me.

Edited June 16, 2017 by nontabury

[nontabury]

8 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

No, this is a poll from yougov in the UK, the same source that everyone is quoting to try and claim people are in favour of leaving. The fact that the link is to a Malaysian paper is irrelevant. 

 

Equally irrelevant is Denis McShane's background (though I don't disagree with your comments regarding him personally). Another major campaigner on remaining is Tony Blair who I loathe, but just happens to hold the same viewpoint on this issue. A better article which hopefully won't get your hackles rising is the opinion piece in the same paper from Wednesday 14th - Gwynne Dyer (May's mess), in which he summarises the current situation very clearly.

http://www.pressreader.com/thailand/bangkok-post/20170614/281771334174450

The point I was trying to raise,was the Fact that that many of these columnist, are put forward as neutral commentators, when in the vast majority of cases they are very biased, as shown by those who have written for the B.P. This benefits the side, that is relying on people to not ask question.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by nontabury

[lamyai3]

26 minutes ago, nontabury said:

The point I was trying to raise,was the Fact that that many of these columnist, are put forward as neutral commentators, when in the vast majority of cases they are very biased, as shown by those who have written for the B.P. This benefits the side, that is relying on people to not ask question.

 

 

I don't deny that there's more of a global (pro-remain) viewpoint presented in local news articles published here in Thailand. However, in the country that the voting actually happens, this view was massively skewed in the opposite direction (studies indicated a ratio of 2-1 tabloid articles were in favour of leave in the run up to the referendum in 2016) and media sources that were in favour of remain such as the BBC also threw public opinion off course by indicating a remain vote was more or less guaranteed, causing complacency among large numbers of people. How can a referendum run under these circumstances this be considered impartial? 

Edited June 16, 2017 by lamyai3

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

There there, you keep believing that if it makes you happy, the realist among us know different. 

The election gas shown that remain is now the dominant wish.

The referendum was at best an unconstitutional aberration.

In the end Brexit will not happen. In a few weeks or a few years Brexitwers will realise the UK is still part of the EU 

In the meantime it might be worth considering g the legality if trying to implement legislation that puts the nation in peril.

 

Thanks for the re-post

2 hours ago, vogie said:

There there, you keep believing that if it makes you happy, the realist among us know different. 

 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

The election gas shown that remain is now the dominant wish.

The referendum was at best an unconstitutional aberration.

In the end Brexit will not happen. In a few weeks or a few years Brexitwers will realise the UK is still part of the EU 

In the meantime it might be worth considering g the legality if trying to implement legislation that puts the nation in peril.

 

Thanks for the re-post

 

Your opinion is that brexit will not happen, brexit is already happening and will happen. 

Explain why it is unconstitutional when the government authorised this only once in a lifetime referendum..

You are believing something that you wish to believe and it bears no resemblance to the real world.

[Stargeezr]

Hey there mr. new France leader, your country has its problems, and will continue to have them

so  maybe  you  should get your country fixed first before worrying about the UK.

Geezer

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

me once shame on you,fool me twice shame on me.

 

5 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Naturally. Just a single, honest referendum with full implications laid out would do it for me. 

How would that ever happen through all of the political propaganda and bias? People need to research the EU for themselves. I was amazed (shocked) at what I found and that's why I became a firm fan of leaving. The EU is a sinister, mismanaged ogre.  

[nauseus]

19 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

I agree. Nor did I say that he had. I was replying to Rixalex who wrote:

Having a referendum after the negotiations will completely undermine Britain's position in those negotiations, because the EU will know full well that they can afford to play hardball without any repercussions. They'll have our negotiators over a barrel essentially.

 

5 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

The picture is a whole lot clearer now than a year ago. Remember the extra £350 million a week to the NHS promises? All we've heard since is cuts to the current funding levels. These were the campaign slogans Brexit was voted in on, and they've been exposed as bare faced lies. 

The picture is not clearer in this respect, the UK is currently still in the EU and still contributing. This money is not available! No one can say what would happen to the money - that option will fall to the government of the day.

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Naturally. Just a single, honest referendum with full implications laid out would do it for me. 

Maybe there should be another referendum to decide how honest all other referendums should be? But watch out for flying carrots! 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

Are we answering posts by telepathy now? 

LMAO