melvinmelvin Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, nauseus said: Training? Wonder who was driving? Some careers cut short. RIP. Yes, training vessel. At the time, the driver was a very experienced US Coast Guard captain, (survived). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Some new evidence re the Fitz crash has recently popped up, a photo that was taken very shortly before the crash https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/01/16/photo-emerges-that-might-exonerate-fitz-defendant/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NT 1-16-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup Not so interesting in my view, but navy lawyers are busy with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 This one is interesting, indeed; https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/01/23/how-the-court-martial-against-the-fitzs-former-co-was-thrown-into-disarray-this-week/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NT 1-23-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup A navy judge has stopped just short of ditching all charges against Mr Benson, the master of the Fitz. Judge not happy with the process. The investigating admiral who also brought the charges has not acted in a neutral manner and has not acted in line with military process rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Another navy report states that key position on the Fitz had not been filled since two years before the crash. https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/01/24/report-lack-of-a-senior-quartermaster-contributed-to-fitz-disaster/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NT 1-24-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup Navy says that this is relevant re the situation leading to the crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) This is quite an interesting read; https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/02/28/heres-what-big-navy-says-its-doing-to-fix-the-surface-fleet/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Navy Times 2-28-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup The US Navy explains measures that have been taken and that will be taken in order to avoid similar mishaps in the future. They have experienced three crashes with Arleigh Burke destroyers so far, several years ago in the strait of Hormuz (Gulf of Persia/Arab Sea), no fatalities a couple of years ago the crashes just off the Japanese coast and off Singapore, several fatalities. Edited March 1, 2019 by melvinmelvin typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 A very long article on this incident, fascinating read...graphics are amazing. This quote from the article pretty much sums things up: "Helmsman-in-training Simona Nelson had taken the wheel of a destroyer at sea for the first time in her life 25 minutes earlier. Nelson froze, unsure of how to respond." FIGHT THE SHIP Death and valor on a warship doomed by its own Navy. https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/uss-fitzgerald-destroyer-crash-crystal/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 29 minutes ago, mtls2005 said: A very long article on this incident, fascinating read...graphics are amazing. This quote from the article pretty much sums things up: "Helmsman-in-training Simona Nelson had taken the wheel of a destroyer at sea for the first time in her life 25 minutes earlier. Nelson froze, unsure of how to respond." FIGHT THE SHIP Death and valor on a warship doomed by its own Navy. https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/uss-fitzgerald-destroyer-crash-crystal/ a good read, indeed 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55Jay Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 3 hours ago, mtls2005 said: A very long article on this incident, fascinating read...graphics are amazing. This quote from the article pretty much sums things up: "Helmsman-in-training Simona Nelson had taken the wheel of a destroyer at sea for the first time in her life 25 minutes earlier. Nelson froze, unsure of how to respond." FIGHT THE SHIP Death and valor on a warship doomed by its own Navy. https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/uss-fitzgerald-destroyer-crash-crystal/ Yes, thanks for posting this, saved it to my bookmarks library. A whole lot of things went wrong here, but the origins trace back to the Navy's push for these "Smart Ships". https://fcw.com/articles/1997/10/05/navys-smart-ship-passes-tests.aspx The Bean Counters were cheer leading from the sidelines in order to reduce active duty manpower, which also reduced downstream financial demands (retirees and their families with life-long medical and other benefits). I remember the mantra, we should strive to emulate the private/corporate sector. Leaner and more efficient. Fair enough. When it comes to routine navigation, massive civilian cargo ships traverse the world with a virtual skeleton crew and no topside watches (for routine steaming), compared to a manpower intensive Navy ship, or even its mostly civilian staffed supply ships (Military Sealift Command). So one of the easy cuts made on these new "Smart Ships" was old school topside watches. Not to say they are the end all be all. They aren't. They can and did fail, just as tech can, and does. Despite my first (old) ship having radar and other sensors and 24 hour topside watches at sea, she still got T-Boned (at night) by a Panamanian-flagged cargo ship near the Philippines in 1980. The tragic irony here is despite the tech on Smart Ship Fitzgerald, which wasn't functioning properly or consistently..... and the Skipper damn well knew and didn't compensate for....... it was the LT OOD's Mark 1 Mod 0 human eye balls that saw the Crystal approaching. You can what if this to death but seems reasonable to say had there been underway topside watches posted, and they were awake and paying attention, I have no doubt they would have made multiple reports to the bridge and CIC via sound powered phone, which would have triggered both bridge and CIC watch teams into realizing their situational awareness was hosed, and action would have been taken much earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Even with the desire to save manpower, as far as I understand it, the minimum watch is navigator + assistant navigator + helmsman + 2 lookouts should suffice for all situations as a contrast, my experience from commercial shipping is navigator alone daytime, from sunset to sunrise navigator + lookout (daytime in very heavy rain, haze or fog, navigator + lookout) (exception, coastal express in Norway, passenger ships running up and down the coast. always two navigators in the wheelhouse, shitty conditions also helmsman and lookout helmsman needed in certain passages when conditions are crappy, navigators don't take their eyes off the radar screens even for a split second, hence - can't operate the autopilot but can bark to the helmsman) The message I get from the looooong post above is, lack of focus on seamanship, lack of training in everyday navigation and ordinary ship handling, lack of understanding of the importance of thinking safety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On the plus side, at least the crew were able to communicate intra-ship via GMail. In the midst of the frenzied training and repairs, the ship’s critical email system collapsed. Neither classified nor unclassified material could be sent. Officers were forced to set up Gmail addresses to continue working. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Another interesting read. Court cases against Fitzgerald officers may go astray. Lawyers claim, again, that high level officers inappropriately interfer with the matters in such a way that a fair trial can not be offered. https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/03/01/mystery-navy-tweeter-unmasked-in-court-filings-alleging-unlawful-command-influence/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NT 3-1-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/03/05/say-it-aint-so-cno-more-unlawful-command-influence-claims-dog-fitz-cases/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NT 3-5-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup Navy lawyers (defence) complaining again. High level navy officers dish out blame for destroyer crash before court case has run to conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 A new theory has come up https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/03/11/did-loose-lockers-doom-the-fitzgerald-seven/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NT 3-11-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup Loose lookers flying around after the crash resulting in exits from compartments being blocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Will this be the end of legal proceedings in the wake of the Fitzgerald crash? an interesting read https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/04/11/in-the-aftermath-of-the-fitzgerald-collision-months-of-legal-fury-end-in-a-whimper/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NT 4-12-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup long since I have heard anything about the destroyer crash off Singapore also, as far as I have seen the Accident investigator's reports have not been published yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Some are NOT happy regarding the findings in the above post/entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Some more re the Fitzgerald cases https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/04/11/navy-expected-to-drop-criminal-charges-against-fitzgerald-skipper/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NT 4-11-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 The destroyer Fitzgerald is floating again, according to Navy Times; https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/04/17/stricken-warship-fitzgerald-returns-to-the-water/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Navy DNR 04-17-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 The Fitzgerald's commanding officer, his views on matters; https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/05/07/heres-the-fitzgerald-cos-side-of-the-story/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Navy DNR 05-07-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 In memory of the crew members that perished on the Fitzgerald; https://www.navytimes.com/news/2019/06/21/this-is-how-the-fitz-will-honor-fallen-crew-members/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NT 6-21-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Some news re the repairs of the two destroyers, the one that crashed off the coast of Japan and the one that crashed near Singapore https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2019/07/17/a-new-issue-is-delaying-the-destroyer-john-s-mccains-return-to-the-fleet/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Navy DNR 07-17-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup (about time accident investigation reports are released, me thinks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgw Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 It's rather strange to see the Navy usually destroying careers over incidents that officers had little control over, and then there is Will rogers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_C._Rogers_III Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, tgw said: It's rather strange to see the Navy usually destroying careers over incidents that officers had little control over, and then there is Will rogers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_C._Rogers_III interesting read, that shot surely made headlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post nauseus Posted August 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 25, 2019 44 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said: interesting read, that shot surely made headlines Blimey - you guys still on this one? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaffas21 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 there do seem to be a few US ships hitting things recently i first thought hacking but then they arrested that guy for incompetance. . however the captain cant be on his bridge 24x7 maybe its a training issue for navigation or bridge crew .. im bemused.. in the uk its normally just ship commanders rogering sexy women on board or using the government cars illegally .. thats the way we do it. Not hitting other ships at sea .. still i guess we invented ship travel along with those pesky spanish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We2Low Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 2 hours ago, jaffas21 said: there do seem to be a few US ships hitting things recently i first thought hacking but then they arrested that guy for incompetance. . however the captain cant be on his bridge 24x7 maybe its a training issue for navigation or bridge crew .. im bemused.. in the uk its normally just ship commanders rogering sexy women on board or using the government cars illegally .. thats the way we do it. Not hitting other ships at sea .. still i guess we invented ship travel along with those pesky spanish Does the UK even have a blue water navy? I’m sure if they had 400+ ships and a high op tempo like the US navy they’d be making headlines good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 4 hours ago, nauseus said: Blimey - you guys still on this one? still waiting for the US Navy and the Japanese board to come up with their accident reports 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVENKEEL Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 9 hours ago, We2Low said: Does the UK even have a blue water navy? I’m sure if they had 400+ ships and a high op tempo like the US navy they’d be making headlines good or bad. News says they got 3 in the Persian Gulf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 On 8/25/2019 at 12:29 PM, nauseus said: Blimey - you guys still on this one? btw, come to think of it, The Brexit Referendum was in June 2016, this crash in June 2017, so the US and Japanese authorities still have time to spend before they join imperial syrup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 The skipper on McCain seems to be getting off fairly "unharmed"; McCain was the destroyer that crashed off Singapore. https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/09/12/board-of-inquiry-recommends-no-punitive-separation-for-former-mccain-co/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Navy DNR 09-12-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVENKEEL Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said: The skipper on McCain seems to be getting off fairly "unharmed"; McCain was the destroyer that crashed off Singapore. https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/09/12/board-of-inquiry-recommends-no-punitive-separation-for-former-mccain-co/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Navy DNR 09-12-19&utm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup I thought accident happened in the Singapore Strait, east of the Malacca Strait. Unless you've had the Conn there at night with heavy rain, <deleted>ty visibility, your radar lit up like a Christmas tree with contacts that are anchored, fishing and in the middle of all that <deleted> you and your lookout misses this one guy crossing to port, you call out hard right, the Chief Mate who's supposed to be helping me missed seeing that ship as well. He was a waste of air he was. It's these near misses that makes you realize you can never get too comfortable, even with nothing on the radar you have to be vigilant Good to see they're not destroying the Captain to make themselves feel better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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