American tourist who died at remote waterfall "insulted the spirits" say Koh Samui locals

[55Jay]

21 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

moving forward to what? a technological nightmare, a cyber-dictatorship???

 

so sorry for you, but i can most definitely assure you that there ARE spirits and ghosts;

my neigbors even saw my mom's ghost here before she announced herself;

when she actually MANIFESTED physically, i ran to tell my neighbors, who said

"we know, dok mai, we saw her already, we were waiting for YOU to say that you saw her!"

Was that the moment they accepted you as "a Thai"? 

 

The warm embrace of acceptance in the group think collective. 

 

 

[55Jay]

2 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

i am not angry, rather merely  justifiably pissed off when anybody who doesn't bother understanding the language, culture, or people

 

i won't respond to you further after your imbecilic "tin foil hat" comment

 

and YES, i HAVE "gone native" -what's wrong with that??? at least i'm not a modern-day COLONIST!!!

Oh Dear. 

 

After a life spent traveling and living/working abroad, I'm over all the cultural ambassador BS, and have discovered the secret of life.

Edited June 20, 2017 by 55Jay

[LannaGuy]

23 minutes ago, moe666 said:

Got to love you guys, no knowledge of what their belief system happens to be but ready to disrespect them and put them down. Very similar to how the American Indian is treated even today in the US. Just because you cannot see do not ever think they do not exsist. Until bacteria could be seen by microscope sickness was caused by bad humors and other things that are nonsense now.

I think I have a pretty good idea of the mix of Animism, Hinduism and a little Buddhism and have studied Shamanism and both the other two and the vast majority of Thais are clueless over the three subjects and merely bring superstition and lip-service to the table. They give Pagans a bad name haha.

[captspectre]

geoffrey? sound like a brit to me. and if the spirits keep away the falangs from the clean part of the island, that's ok with me.

[rkidlad]

9 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Do any forms of superior powers exist above ?

 

Well only a story teller would claim having the answer to that one...

 

Nevertheless, to deny any such forms of higher energy or vibrations would be like straightforwardly denying other forms of life elsewhere in space?

 

Who are we to confirm or refute such issues, considering our current levels of knowledge and science?.....only a fool would claim to know....

Because it's based on years of scientific study done by the world's greatest minds. There are scientific laws that don't cherry pick when they apply. They apply all the time.

 

Science is not arrogant. Science is what it is. It's open to debate and ridicule and it's always trying to prove itself wrong. If you can disprove a scientific theory, you'll be celebrated by scientists. Not told to shut up and stop being disrespectful. This is progression. 

 

If we reset back to year 0. Back to knowing nothing - in 2000 years time do you think our religions and superstitions would be the same? No. We'd still have them but they'd be different. Science on the other hand would be exactly the same. Things going up will still have to come down. People should always be questioning and challenging. Don't debate to be right. Debate to find out what's right. 

Edited June 20, 2017 by rkidlad

[sambum]

20 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

i'm FROM northern California, and spent 50+ years there before moving here 7 1/2 years ago;

MOST mumbo-jumbo in the west is exactly that; and acknowledging spirits and ghosts is NOT "hocus pocus"

sorry you're so tainted and jaded from having been married to a fraud-

maybe some day, buy my book (memoirs) and learn some TRUTH...

"buy my book"

 

I just KNEW there was an ulterior motive! You don't seem much different to the "God needs your money" red neck Bible thumpers that you have moved away from!

[garbolino]

what a load of cods whallop so anyone killed in road crash insulted the "road spirits" dont think so !!!

Edited June 20, 2017 by garbolino

[rkidlad]

Just now, observer90210 said:

What we know to this day, is what we learned since year 0.....but what we will know in year 3000 hopefully will be more advanced that what we know today!

 

but keep in mind my friend that Galileo was burned alive by the 16th or 17th century scientific establishment as he dared to embrase a fully correct theory claiming that our planet was round (and not flat)!!!

 

As I am not qualfied on further debate on science,  I would plainly be a bit cautious on current claims of the scientific communities regarding certain supernatural or extraterrestral issues that our current science does not give us the means to explore deeper to find out whether right or not....

No, we are now advancing very quickly. Certainly not at the same rate we were even 200 years ago. As we know more, we learn more quickly. 

[Khon Kaen Dave]

16 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

i am not angry, rather merely  justifiably pissed off when anybody who doesn't bother understanding the language, culture, or people

 

i won't respond to you further after your imbecilic "tin foil hat" comment

 

and YES, i HAVE "gone native" -what's wrong with that??? at least i'm not a modern-day COLONIST!!!

Maybe not, but you live in a country where the elite have colonised their own people

 

[observer90210]

2 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

No, we are now advancing very quickly. Certainly not at the same rate we were even 200 years ago. As we know more, we learn more quickly. 

No, we are not yet at our level of knowledge of year 3000 and we cannot thus claim to confirm or refute certain current issues that science has not yet discovered.

[jenifer d]

1 minute ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Maybe not, but you live in a country where the elite have colonised their own people

 

name me one place where the elites HAVEN'T colonized, marginalized or outright destroyed their own people???

 

thanks, i KNEW you couldn't...

[observer90210]

5 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Maybe not, but you live in a country where the elite have colonised their own people

 

yes but it's their country and their people and it does not give others from outside a colonist right to interference...

 

as for the elite's that rule, perhaps you should take a look at some suburbs in the UK, USA, Europe in general, where the elites have done similar if not worse....

Edited June 20, 2017 by observer90210

[jenifer d]

13 minutes ago, sambum said:

"buy my book"

 

I just KNEW there was an ulterior motive! You don't seem much different to the "God needs your money" red neck Bible thumpers that you have moved away from!

no ulterior motive; just tired of repeatedly defending myslef when the facts of my existence speak for themselves-

personally, i don't give a rat's patootie if one wishes to remain ignorant- my publisher and agent pay me anyways...

when i moved here 7 1/2 years ago, my longtime agent said

"jenifer, i've known you 30 years, and i don't believe your life- write your story (so far) and i'll do my best to sell it!"

 

[jenifer d]

1 minute ago, observer90210 said:

yes but it's their country and their people and it does not give others from outside a colonist right to interference...

 

as for the elite's that rule, perhaps you should take a look at some suburbs in the UK, USA, Europe in general, where the elites have done similar if not worse....

yup!!!

[jenifer d]

27 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

utter BS have you seen how they treat nature?  animals?  Jeeze

actually, most Thais have a reverence for nature that is completely unfathomable to the western mind...

and have YOU seen how the WORLD treats the animals that you EAT???

[jenifer d]

10 minutes ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

Elephants and other wild animals piss in Thai waterfalls!

ummm, i've got news for you-

MOST animals do NOT piss in water, but on LAND... 

nice try, though... 

[Khon Kaen Dave]

9 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

name me one place where the elites HAVEN'T colonized, marginalized or outright destroyed their own people???

 

thanks, i KNEW you couldn't...

You assume too much. I don't see the pensioners in my country having to live on the equivalent of 1400 baht a month

 

There is poverty and deep poverty. 

 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

9 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

It is easy to mock the local people for their beliefs, but having spent a long time in rural Asia (outside of Thailand) I have a slightly different take.

 

I always found that the local animism and the concurrent belief in 'spirits' was more a way to try and live in harmony with nature, In olden days, the easiest way to express what we now call environmentalism and common sense in dealings with nature was to ascribe what they saw to a supernatural presence, and by heeding the 'spirits', local people adapted themselves to their local conditions.

 

I think it is true that the guy slipped on a rock. That said. the local belief might actually have been saying "don't go there or you might slip on a rock". It is just expressed in a different manner.

 

Cheers

 

Wow, talk about trying to make sense out of absolute nonsense?  Still, you did try hard...................but, unfortunately you failed.

[Odysseus123]

1 hour ago, wallybee said:

Anybody who still believes in this hocus pocus, I would suggest reading "Homo Deus"

by Yuval Noah Harari, it is a kind of refresher course for fossils living in the 21st Century.

You might want to start of with his much acclaimed "Homo Sapiens"

Thank you for the references to the two books that you have listed above.

 

I have ordered both of them from Amazon.

[jenifer d]

Just now, Khon Kaen Dave said:

You assume too much. I don't see the pensioners in my country having to live on the equivalent of 1400 baht a month

 

There is poverty and deep poverty. 

 

MY country- where i LIVE- is Thailand, and although there is poverty here, it is NOT nearly what one will find

in places such as Bangladesh, Phillipines, India, or Africa, etc (all of which places people actually LIVE in/on GARBAGE dumps!!!)

 

[jenifer d]

36 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Was that the moment they accepted you as "a Thai"? 

 

The warm embrace of acceptance in the group think collective. 

 

 

actually, they gave me my Thai nickname on my 4th day visiting here, since ALL residents of  our magical island KNEW

that this was my home the moment i stepped foot here (as did i, from the boat!) later on that same day (4th NIGHT),

i was asked to play 1 song w/band (the bar owner had seen me w/guitar even though nobody had heard me)

2 1/2 hours later, they finally let me off stage, and at that point, EVERYBODY here knew me, and i was accepted...

then, when i moved here, i started to really learn the language & culture and REAL Thai life

-oh, and by the way, it has NOTHING to do with "the warm embrace of acceptance in the group think collective" 

so sorry for you and your cynicism...

 

many here on this forum hate me because i am a HARD LINER regarding NOT being a colonist;

if somebody lives here and doesn't bother to speak the language and at least respect the culture and spirituality-

they are nothing better than a modern-day colonist, and maybe they should NOT be here...

i feel this VERY strongly- wherever i live, i would and do "go native"!!!

[Essaybloke]

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

YES!!! well said!!!

finally a bit of respect and enlightened wisdom in this thread!!!

 

one dear Thai friend put it very well, at the official dediaction "party" of a mountain shrine/temple in Dan Chang (Suphan Buri):

"Pi' dok mai* *  Buddhism is a science, not a religion" i knew exactly what he meant- Buddha did it, and told others "this is what i did,

you can take what works and do what you may to get here too" 

* *(dok mai = flower, my Thai name; Pi' being term of high respect & esteem due to my being elderly)

"Buddhism is a science, not a religion..." 

 

No it is not. Religion and Science couldn't be further apart. Your friend is wrong, for many clear and apparent reasons.

[Bangkok Barry]

9 hours ago, robblok said:

How is this any different then Christians saying it was the will of god after an accident or stuff like this. 

 

All these religions are equally funny, no proof for any. He just fell that is all, now if something really strange has happened. Like he fell upwards and hung around mid air levitating (without any machines around) I would hold more credibility to religion after first looking for a good scientific explanation. 

Yep. It was the will of god for a fire to take place at a London tower block at the very time it was filled with people sleeping. That makes god a psycopath, if anyone believes that nonsense.

 

95 percent of the world believes in some religion or other, which in my book makes 95 percent of the world insane. That would explain a lot.

[jenifer d]

Just now, Essaybloke said:

"Buddhism is a science, not a religion..." 

 

No it is not. Religion and Science couldn't be further apart. Your friend is wrong, for many clear and apparent reasons.

it's obvious you have never STUDIED and APPLIED Buddhism

 

YOU are wrong, and you will NEVER even begin to know why!!!

 

PS: do NOT conflate what goes on in temples, churces, etc w/the ACTUAL truths and mystical nature of that which is, was, and will be...

[Essaybloke]

Just now, jenifer d said:

it's obvious you have never STUDIED and APPLIED Buddhism

 

YOU are wrong, and you will NEVER even begin to know why!!!

 

PS: do NOT conflate what goes on in temples, churces, etc w/the ACTUAL truths and mystical nature of that which is, was, and will be...

Thanks for the response. So I guess you will never tell me why I'm 'wrong'. OK.

Would you like to go find the definitions of 'Religion' and 'Science' and then back to me?

You'll probably find I am 'right'.

Oh, and may I suggest you use 'spell checker' before posting?

[maximillian]

9 hours ago, lemonjelly said:

superstition..... but quite harmless and one of the many things that make Thailand a special place.... may it continue and Thailand not become the sterile dull place that Western Europe has become.

Mind you, Westerners have their funny believes as well, and quite a few.

Go to rural Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, Poland and even Scandinavia, you'll find similar kind of BS.

[rkidlad]

42 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

No, we are not yet at our level of knowledge of year 3000 and we cannot thus claim to confirm or refute certain current issues that science has not yet discovered.

So by that logic, I can make up anything that I want with 0 proof and people must not be allowed to mock me? Even when it defies the laws of science?

 

If I believe in dildo unicorns. You know, unicorns with dildos instead of horns, does it mean that might be true? Wow! I sure hope people in power don't use this logic for more sinister reasons. Nah, they wouldn't do that. 

 

Do you not think it's a better use of scientists' time trying to figure out what's plausible based on facts. Where are you hoping to find these spirits and ghosts? At the earth's core maybe? 

 

There are no such things as ghosts. Get busy living and stop wasting your time dying. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2017 by rkidlad

[samuijimmy]

OK cool it guys and gals with the off topic remarks and trolling... a number of posts have been removed....

[TheLobster]

Yawn

[observer90210]

5 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

So by that logic, I can make up anything that I want with 0 proof and people must not be allowed to mock me? Even when it defies the laws of science?

 

If I believe in dildo unicorns. You know, unicorns with dildos instead of horns, does it mean that might be true? Wow! I sure hope people in power don't use this logic for more sinister reasons. Nah, they wouldn't do that. 

 

Do you not thinks it's a better use of scientists time trying to figure out what's plausible based on facts. Where are you hoping to find these spirits and ghosts? At the earth's core maybe? 

 

There are no such things as ghosts. Get busy living and stop wasting your time dying. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

who spoke of making up?....in your logic, if somebody says that we just do not know if it is true or not ,considering the current level of science, by your standards you consider  is as making it up and a false claim of truth?

 

sorry but I thought that I spoke english reasonably decently, but I cannot understand your point here?...you seem a bit confused and I kindly invite you,  should you wish to carry on,  to revise and read your initial thread to my intention and the following responses from both sides.

 

If not, have a nice day, Sir!

Edited June 20, 2017 by observer90210