Sixty high-rise buildings fail safety tests after London fire - UK government

[ddavidovsky]

Just pull the cladding off. How hard is that? The Japanese would do it in hours.

Then put the fireproof cladding on.

Then put it down to a lesson learned, compensate the victims (except any illegal immigrants who shouldn't have been there in the first place), and move on.

 

Oh, and train the fire department to know what is flammable and what isn't.

Edited June 27, 2017 by ddavidovsky

[Grubster]

6 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Just pull the cladding off. How hard is that? The Japanese would do it in hours.

Then put the fireproof cladding on.

Then put it down to a lesson learned, compensate the victims (except any illegal immigrants who shouldn't have been there in the first place), and move on.

No the Japanese couldn't do it in hours, and you do mean the same brilliant Japs. that built the back up generators for a nuke plant on the beach. They did give tsunami its name. DUH. IT takes a lot of time and equipment to strip that cladding down.

[ddavidovsky]

8 minutes ago, Grubster said:

No the Japanese couldn't do it in hours, and you do mean the same brilliant Japs. that built the back up generators for a nuke plant on the beach. They did give tsunami its name. DUH. IT takes a lot of time and equipment to strip that cladding down.

Sounds like you work for the local council.

 

It just takes the will and some organisation - money is presumably no object. It will have to be done and the quicker they do it, the cheaper it will be in the long run.

 

I certainly believe the Japanese could do it in hours. Remember how they filled that giant sink hole within a week? Same job in the UK would have taken months. Equipment needed? Power screwdriver? Crowbar? Get it. I see they've started doing it with two blokes on scaffolding. They need 20 guys abseiling from the roof.

[Grouse]

I wonder if they will use FR or A2 materials to refurb Buckingham Palace.

[Grubster]

2 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Sounds like you work for the local council.

 

It just takes the will and some organisation - money is presumably no object. It will have to be done and the quicker they do it, the cheaper it will be in the long run.

 

I certainly believe the Japanese could do it in hours. Remember how they filled that giant sink hole within a week? Same job in the UK would have taken months. Equipment needed? Power screwdriver? Crowbar? Get it. I see they've started doing it with two blokes on scaffolding. They need 20 guys abseiling from the roof.

They cleaned up that nuke plant in hours too. Or did they. about 20,000 hours so far. Sure sounds to me like you have no construction or demolition experience at all, just a big mouth. So why don't you will it done.

[ddavidovsky]

1 minute ago, Grubster said:

They cleaned up that nuke plant in hours too. Or did they. about 20,000 hours so far. Sure sounds to me like you have no construction or demolition experience at all, just a big mouth. So why don't you will it done.

My experience is of social organisation. Do you know about the British?:

 

""Right," said Fred, "Both of us together
One on each end and steady as we go."
Tried to shift it, couldn't even lift it
We was getting nowhere
And so we  'ad another cuppa tea."

[Grubster]

28 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

My experience is of social organisation. Do you know about the British?:

 

""Right," said Fred, "Both of us together
One on each end and steady as we go."
Tried to shift it, couldn't even lift it
We was getting nowhere
And so we  'ad another cuppa tea."

Seemed to do ok against hitler, while Japan was getting their ass handed to them in the east.

[Grouse]

Meanwhile, back on topic

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-tower-fire-theresa-may-investigation-cladding-95-building-fail-tests-safety-sprinkling-a7810181.html

 

The manufacture has stopped PE (polyethylene) backed panels

 

NOT all of them, quite correctly

 

People do not understand the difference between non flammable and non combustible 

 

This is going to be a white wash and millions will be made

 

Where are the engineers? You know, those with a useless university education?

 

[ilostmypassword]

May has more than 1 billion in cash for the Northern Irish but none for replacement of the cladding. She seems to have a political death wish. If only it were for herself and her party alone.

Grenfell Tower cladding scandal could cost councils millions after Government says no guarantee of extra funding

Councils face bills running to hundreds of millions of pounds to make tower blocks safe after the Government said it would not guarantee extra money to pay for vital work to prevent a repeat of the Grenfell disaster. 

But despite emergency fire safety checks being carried out nationwide under central government direction, councils will not be reimbursed for refurbishment work carried out. 

A DCLG spokesperson said there was “no guarantee” of central government funding and that it would be "up to local authorities and housing associations to pay" for the work needed to ensure residents’ safety.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-cladding-scandal-council-funding-government-no-guarantee-local-government-budgets-a7809216.html

 

[buick]

from what i've heard via news reports on television, the company that produced the cladding (arconic) knew it was not suitable for high rise buildings.  i think they said it was suitable for heights of 10M or maybe 20M.  there are internal emails where employees are wondering why the cladding was allowed to be sold when they knew the bldg was much higher than 10-20M.  could spell some trouble for arconic, sounds like they may have had a mai pen rai moment.  the number of bldgs that have problems is shocking.  some butts need to be kicked in the building inspection offices.

[Grouse]

Best solution would be replace the panels with A2 version of the existing panels at the same time the PE panels are removed. Alcoa supply replacement panels FoC, councils replace at their labour cost.

 

We still have not been told what the additional insulation layer is (if any). 

 

Are the uPVC window frames FR?

 

Can't we do anything right?

 

As usual, media dumbed down so no actual facts. Do they think the majority are stupid? Oh, hang on.....

Edited June 28, 2017 by Grouse

[i claudius]

For those that seem to think May and the Torys are to blame i see they have now found the first tower block in Germany with the same cladding. That darn Merkel

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Grouse]

On 27/06/2017 at 8:09 PM, Grouse said:

Meanwhile, back on topic

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-tower-fire-theresa-may-investigation-cladding-95-building-fail-tests-safety-sprinkling-a7810181.html

 

The manufacture has stopped PE (polyethylene) backed panels

 

NOT all of them, quite correctly

 

People do not understand the difference between non flammable and non combustible 

 

This is going to be a white wash and millions will be made

 

Where are the engineers? You know, those with a useless university education?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/26/tower-block-cladding-tests-after-grenfell-fire-lack-transparency-say-experts

 

This is what I am banging on about. You need professional engineers to specify what is and what is not suitable

 

Combustion test? What combustion test? 

[ddavidovsky]

Finally we get round to hearing from the fire risk assessors. I've been saying all along that these are the people, more than anyone, who are responsible for the fire (in a professional sense). They sent a letter to all the councils warning them of the danger, but the advice given on remedial action was vague-to-nonexistant. They would consider they'd covered their backs but the letter was quite feckless and had 'round file' written all over it. It damns the fire department more than it vindicates.

[Grouse]

The Enquiry

 

 "He (Sir Martin) had a successful practice in shipping law at the Bar and would have had to deal with many technical issues in shipping cases - for example, the causes of a ship sinking.

"This would have meant mastering complex technical evidence and dealing with a raft of expert engineers."

 

Brilliant!

[dick dasterdly]

On 6/27/2017 at 8:09 PM, Grouse said:

Meanwhile, back on topic

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-tower-fire-theresa-may-investigation-cladding-95-building-fail-tests-safety-sprinkling-a7810181.html

 

The manufacture has stopped PE (polyethylene) backed panels

 

NOT all of them, quite correctly

 

People do not understand the difference between non flammable and non combustible 

 

This is going to be a white wash and millions will be made

 

Where are the engineers? You know, those with a useless university education?

 

I agree that this disaster is quickly going to disappear, with perhaps a few minor charges against employees/companies.

 

Not sure why your post refers sarcastically to those "with a useless university education" - as I'd bet money that many involved in making the decisions resulting in this disaster had said education....  They were just more concerned about company profits.

Edited June 29, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree that this disaster is quickly going to disappear, with perhaps a few minor charges against employees/companies.

 

Not sure why your post refers sarcastically to those "with a useless university education" - as I'd bet money that many involved in making the decisions resulting in this disaster had said education....  They were just more concerned about company profits.

The point I was trying to make is that lay people bandying about terminology that they do not clearly understand opens the barn doors for a massive white wash.

 

Combustabilty tests sound great, but what does it mean? Expose a standard size sample vertically and put a gas torch 5cm away for 30 mins?

 

Great, let's ban wood!

 

We already have perfectly valid flammability ratings. They just need to be applied properly by qualified people.

 

Loose terminology just confuses and misleads people.

 

UL method

 

http://web.rtpcompany.com/info/ul/ul94v012.htm

 

 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

http://www.cefic-efra.com/index.php/en/flame-retardants-applications-en-gb

 

"The European reaction to fire classification and testing system is mandatory for all Member States. However, the fire safety regulations of the single Member States and the fire safety levels laid down therein are not part of European harmonization and remain the responsibility of the Member States."

 

Special UK loophole optouts coming for sure! 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Grouse