Britain's opposition Labour Party to force vote in parliament on pay cap

[baboon]

7 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Of course it is still going on, otherwise there would not have been a mild ripple of reporting re: DUP / UDA links in the aftermath of the latter's recent terrorist attack.

I also deplore terrorism of all flavours, but I also deplore the sheer hypocrisy of those who have spent months and months criticising JC but are utterly mute when TM is not only climbing into bed with the DUP, but bribing them with taxpayers' money.

 

Or continue to act as if it is an outrage even as they are doing the self same thing: 'Don't look at us, look at them! At them!' It takes some chutzpah...

[baboon]

On 30/06/2017 at 10:52 AM, Retiredandhappyhere said:

According to Corbyn, May has no mandate.  Well, someone should remind him that her party still managed 56 more MPs than his motley Labour crew.  Exactly with whom would he collaborate to form a Government?

 

As always in the past, Labour just wants to spend, spend, spend......other peoples' money. 

Whose money do Tory governments spend on tax cuts, then; their own?

[Mosha]

Whose money do Tory governments spend on tax cuts, then; their own?

Whose money do Labour hard left spend on the bone idle? From memory everyone paying tax.

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[baboon]

18 minutes ago, Mosha said:

Whose money do Labour hard left spend on the bone idle? From memory everyone paying tax.

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When has the Labour hard left been in power?

[Mosha]

When has the Labour hard left been in power?

All I know as a working class person. I was always better off under the Conservatives. I hurt my back at 17, and to see neighbours swinging the lead, and voting Labour cos they were better off under Labour pissed me off. While genuinely sick struggled to claim benefits. No matter who was in power.

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[baboon]

Just now, Mosha said:

All I know as a working class person. I was always better off under the Conservatives. I hurt my back at 17, and to see neighbours swinging the lead, and voting Labour cos they were better off under Labour pissed me off. While genuinely sick struggled to claim benefits. No matter who was in power.

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When has the Labour hard left been in power?

[nontabury]

15 minutes ago, Mosha said:

All I know as a working class person. I was always better off under the Conservatives. I hurt my back at 17, and to see neighbours swinging the lead, and voting Labour cos they were better off under Labour pissed me off. While genuinely sick struggled to claim benefits. No matter who was in power.

Sent from my iris 505 using Tapatalk
 

Many ordinary workers, vote Conservative for the same reason you mentioned.

They realize that the Labour party no longer represents them. They are increasingly seen as the party of the scroungers and of the Muslim community. While the Conservatives are still looked upon as the representatives of the rich and big business. Not much of a choice is it. 

[Mosha]

When has the Labour hard left been in power?

They ran Liverpool council, remember that?

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[RuamRudy]

Whose money do Labour hard left spend on the bone idle? From memory everyone paying tax.

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You rightly object to those few working class people who exploit the system, but where is your outrage at the wholesale and blatant transfer of wealth from the many to the few, that the Tories actively facilitate?

[baboon]

1 minute ago, Mosha said:

They ran Liverpool council, remember that?

Sent from my iris 505 using Tapatalk
 

Liverpool Council formed a national government? When did that happen?

[Mosha]

You rightly object to those few working class people who exploit the system, but where is your outrage at the wholesale and blatant transfer of wealth from the many to the few, that the Tories actively facilitate?

Because where I lived most of the unemployed were the bone idle. A disgrace to the working class. The current Labour leadership AFAIK haven't had much of a struggle. I think they're taking the piss

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[RuamRudy]

Because where I lived most of the unemployed were the bone idle. A disgrace to the working class. The current Labour leadership AFAIK haven't had much of a struggle. I think they're taking the piss

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Even more disgraceful, in my opinion, is the sight of working class people cheering on a party that shows them nothing but contempt in return. The Tories don't like you - they laugh at you as they legalise the continuing exploitation of your and your descendents' labour, and the appropriation of your wealth for themselves and their paymasters. But hey, Labour bad...

[nontabury]

10 minutes ago, Mosha said:

Because where I lived most of the unemployed were the bone idle. A disgrace to the working class. The current Labour leadership AFAIK haven't had much of a struggle. I think they're taking the piss

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I think you'll find that the majority of the Labour leadership, are not from the working class, more likely from the chattering class, who aspire to be part of the elite. Check out how many send their off springs to expensive private schools, while encouraging the dumming down of state education.

[RuamRudy]

I think you'll find that the majority of the Labour leadership, are not from the working class, more likely from the chattering class, who aspire to be part of the elite. Check out how many send their off springs to expensive private schools, while encouraging the dumming down of state education.

Getting back on topic, where do you stand on the pay cap? The Tories seem to be flip flopping on this one now - putting aside your feelings about Labour, what do you think about their proposal to increase public sector workers' wages?

[nontabury]

11 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Getting back on topic, where do you stand on the pay cap? The Tories seem to be flip flopping on this one now - putting aside your feelings about Labour, what do you think about their proposal to increase public sector workers' wages?

 

Where's the money going to come from?

[baboon]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

Where's the money going to come from?

The DUP bung fund...?

[billd766]

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

Where's the money going to come from?

 

OPM

 

Other Peoples Money.

 

It is always easy to spend OPM until it runs out, then you have an election, a new party takes power, and, Bingo, it becomes their problem.

 

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. Margaret Thatcher

Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/margaretth502392.html

[baboon]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

OPM

 

Other Peoples Money.

 

It is always easy to spend OPM until it runs out, then you have an election, a new party takes power, and, Bingo, it becomes their problem.

 

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. Margaret Thatcher

Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/margaretth502392.html

Whose money did Thatcher use when she was running the country? 

[nontabury]

28 minutes ago, baboon said:

Whose money did Thatcher use when she was running the country? 

She was far more responsible with tax payers money, than what J.C is proposing.

Did she use the tax payers money wisely? Well that depends on your political stand point. 

[baboon]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

She was far more responsible with tax payers money, than what J.C is proposing.

Did she use the tax payers money wisely? Well that depends on your political stand point. 

Aye, the rights and wrongs of Thatcher is stuff for a 500+ page thread.

I was just reacting to these implications that only Labour spend taxpayer's money.

[RuamRudy]

Where's the money going to come from?

There are lots of ways a creative government might find the funds, should they choose to do so. Maybe from putting the same efforts into identifying tax avoiders as they put into identifying social security abusers? Both a problems, but I believe that losses due to the former is several times larger than the latter.
At the same time, they could clamp down on legal but unfair exploitation of non-dom rules.
And how about applying the same tax rules to the likes of Starbucks, Google and Amazon that small business have to deal with?

[ilostmypassword]

10 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

There are lots of ways a creative government might find the funds, should they choose to do so. Maybe from putting the same efforts into identifying tax avoiders as they put into identifying social security abusers? Both a problems, but I believe that losses due to the former is several times larger than the latter.
At the same time, they could clamp down on legal but unfair exploitation of non-dom rules.
And how about applying the same tax rules to the likes of Starbucks, Google and Amazon that small business have to deal with?

HOw about restoring the tax rates to what they were before the Tories took over?

[billd766]

6 hours ago, baboon said:

Whose money did Thatcher use when she was running the country? 

 

The taxpayers after inheriting, as usual, a load of debt left over from the Labour government by James Callaghan.

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

There are lots of ways a creative government might find the funds, should they choose to do so. Maybe from putting the same efforts into identifying tax avoiders as they put into identifying social security abusers? Both a problems, but I believe that losses due to the former is several times larger than the latter.
At the same time, they could clamp down on legal but unfair exploitation of non-dom rules.
And how about applying the same tax rules to the likes of Starbucks, Google and Amazon that small business have to deal with?

Much of what you write is correct. Unfortunately if you tax the rich too much, those that cannot hide it legally, can quite easily up-sticks and move themselves and their money elsewhere. This then results in even less collected in tax. Is this fair on the average tax payer, of course not. 

 

[baboon]

36 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

The taxpayers after inheriting, as usual, a load of debt left over from the Labour government by James Callaghan.

As though the Tories' austerity Britain is working...

[ilostmypassword]

27 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Much of what you write is correct. Unfortunately if you tax the rich too much, those that cannot hide it legally, can quite easily up-sticks and move themselves and their money elsewhere. This then results in even less collected in tax. Is this fair on the average tax payer, of course not. 

 

Just the rates they were paying when Blair was in office. Didn't see much evidence of the rich running away then.

[nontabury]

30 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Just the rates they were paying when Blair was in office. Didn't see much evidence of the rich running away then.

Don't be over concerned with the rate of taxation the rich are on. More important is the total amount that they pay. 

I am probably like you, I think they're getting away with far too much. But we have to be realistic, and remember that, something is better than nothing.

[Khun Han]

9 hours ago, baboon said:

Aye, the rights and wrongs of Thatcher is stuff for a 500+ page thread.

I was just reacting to these implications that only Labour spend taxpayer's money.

 

Certainly is! Thatcher was one hell of a curate's egg of a prime minister.

 

I have no problem with Labour lessening the wealth gap, if they went about it the right way. But most of their proposals always target middle-to-high earning high achievers instead of corporate greed and high-end tax avoidance. They always go after the easiest targets to fund their largesse, rather than target the much more difficult real problems.

[ilostmypassword]

9 hours ago, nontabury said:

Don't be over concerned with the rate of taxation the rich are on. More important is the total amount that they pay. 

I am probably like you, I think they're getting away with far too much. But we have to be realistic, and remember that, something is better than nothing.

Well, since the total amount they pay depends in large part on the rate of taxation, I will continue to be concerned about it. Truly bizarre in time of extremely low interest rates and economic distress to be cutting taxes on the wealthiest and reducing benefits to those in need.

[billd766]

14 hours ago, baboon said:

As though the Tories' austerity Britain is working...

 

It is working but not very well and from what I can see it is hated by a large number of people.

 

If the Tories would listen to many of the people in the UK and ease up on the pay cap they may have a chance in Brexit and the next election. If they don't they have shot themselves in the foot.

 

A new Labour government under Jeremy Corbyn does not have much appeal to me and the current lot under Theresa May is not that much better either.