Decree on foreign labour looks like a rush job to academic

[webfact]

Decree on foreign labour looks like a rush job to academic
By The Nation

 

 

BANGKOK: -- An academic specialising in labour issues has questioned the necessity of issuing a Royal Decree on foreigners working in Thailand, saying the use of decrees to introduce or amend laws is only appropriate in emergencies.

 

Bundit Thanachaisetthawut of the Arom Phong Pha-ngan Foundation said problems arising from foreign labour do not constitute “an emergency situation [for which a Royal Decree] is utmost necessary and unavoidable”, and thus there was no need for the Decree on the Management of Foreign Workers Act 2017 that came into effect on June 17.

 

Bundit pointed out that a formal decree allows the government to promulgate or amend a law without first seeking public comment, as is otherwise required. 

 

He also noted that entrepreneurs and employers have expressed concern the hefty fines outlined in the act could result in corruption in the form of officials seeking and accepting bribes.

 

Anyone employing an undocumented foreign worker faces a fine of Bt400,000-Bt800,000. 

 

The Cabinet approved the decree in principle in March and quickly submitted it for Council of State consideration. It essentially merges two existing laws – the Working of Aliens Act 2008 and the Royal Decree on the Placement of Aliens for Work with Employers in Thailand 2016.

 

Bundit last month participated in a seminar and public consultation on the decree organised by the Migrant Working Group and Solidary Centre, as did representatives of state and private agencies. 

 

He said it was noted that the decree’s drafting process might violate Section 77 of the Constitution requiring all proposed laws to be subject to stakeholder input. 

 

Seminar participants also criticised the proposed punitive measures and other aspects of the decree and recommended changes.

 

The decree prescribes that employers be fined Bt4,000 for every foreign employee doing a job other than what is designated in his or her work permit. A foreigner caught doing so could be fined up to Bt100,000.

 

Employers face five years in jail and/or a fine of Bt2,000-Bt10,000 if a foreign employee has no work permit or is working in one of 39 professions reserved for Thais.

 

They face a fine of up to Bt100,000 if a foreign employee’s rights are violated or essential documents are withheld, and 3-10 years in prison and/or a fine of Bt600,000-Bt1 million per worker for making false claims about finding foreigners a job in Thailand.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30319437

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-06-29

[the guest]

This xenophobic country has surely sent a very clear message, "we don't want foreigners" !

[al007]

Retirement and Marriage Extensions next on the hit list

[Cadbury]

41 minutes ago, webfact said:

".....without first seeking public comment, as is otherwise required". 

Commenting publicly is a serious health risk. I have now put my health at risk by making this comment.

[yellowboat]

42 minutes ago, webfact said:

The decree prescribes that employers be fined Bt4,000 for every foreign employee doing a job other than what is designated in his or her work permit. A foreigner caught doing so could be fined up to Bt100,000.

Thais who actually break the law pay less than some poor foreigners being duped or exploited.  Sad but not a surprise. 

[darksidedog]

I can see immigration officers rubbing their hands with glee and checking out new cars, wide screen TV's and other expensive goodies, that will soon be coming their way. Thailand is already Draconian in its labour laws, so this is totally unnecessary, as is the under the radar way it has been brought in.

[Lupatria]

50 minutes ago, the guest said:

This xenophobic country has surely sent a very clear message, "we don't want foreigners" !

...even though we can't get our sh#t together without a little help from our "farrang friends" with knowledge and expertise in education, construction, to air safety etc,etc.

[williamgeorgeallen]

thailand does everything it can to stop us getting into trouble in thailand. it makes it illegal  to own houses and very very difficult to work or start businesses.  not surprised thaland is trying to do more to help us with so many of us getting in trouble.

[webfact]

New migrant workers law useful for investors: Employment Dept

 

BANGKOK, 29 June 2017 (NNT) – A newly-enacted law governing the management of migrant workers will be useful for businesses and investors and will be on par with international labor standards, said Department of Employment Director-General Varanon Peetiwan. 

He said the law on the management of migrant workers will benefit investors, employers, employees, and the general public as it combines all related laws together and updates measures to be in line with international standards. 

He said the new law imposes stricter punishments to violations related to migrant workers employment, namely 400,000 baht fine to employers per one illegally employed worker per day, as illegal employment of migrant workers is a major issue affecting national security. 

The Employment Department chief has reaffirmed the government will not restrict the employment of migrant workers as they contributes to economic development and investments. The new law will facilitate the investment from foreign investors which will result in more migrant workers working in Thailand. 

Thailand is now home to some two million migrant workers, 1.3 million of whom have been legally employed. The Department of Employment has inspected some 400,000 workplaces in the past eight months and found three percent of inspected workplace violating the regulations. 

The department is now addressing the issue where migrant workers have changed employment without having their work permits updated, and migrant workers who might bear no proper identification documents and have entered the country illegally.

 

-- nnt 2017-06-29

[CantSpell]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Anyone employing an undocumented foreign worker faces a fine of Bt400,000-Bt800,000

Can see the hunt beginning....

 

Catch one per month over a year and most will have enough cash to retire 

[mogo51]

1 hour ago, the guest said:

This xenophobic country has surely sent a very clear message, "we don't want foreigners" !

They have been doing it for years only it is getting worse. What will the develope 3rdes do, Thais wont sign up for 200 bht day.

[Bill Miller]

Wow. Three percent.. For sure requires an "emergency decree>"

 

[AGareth2]

might be time to invest in brown envelopes

[zaphod reborn]

Quote

useful for investors

 

Nice spin.  What they did was to increase penalties for employers illegally employing foreigners.  How can that be useful for investors?  Obviously the only consequence will be to make the annual labor raid protection brown envelope larger. 

[Arkady]

It is definitely very strange. This decree is not just an amendment to existing laws.  It is a replacement.  In Section 3 it cancels the 2008 Working of Aliens Act and 22016 Decree on recruitment of foreign labour.  It was approved by the cabinet in March before the new constitution came into effect but has been passed after the constitution came into effect when new laws have to go through a public hearing process, allowing stakeholders to give their views.  Before the 2008 Working of Aliens Act was passed there were detailed public hearings.  Thai industry bodies and foreign chambers of commerce were rightly and properly invited to air their views.   There are huge implications for Thai employers and for foreign investors and in the interests of the economy and society as a whole one would have thought that they and any other stakeholders, such as Thai labour groups would have been allowed their say this time too, through a normal legislative process. 

 

Normally legislation through Royal decrees is reserved for emergency legislation, particularly relating to financial and tax issues, as well as security issues.  They seem to be representing this as a security issue.     

[navara]

I really do not understand this unfriendly behavior. It seems that we are not allowed to have a normal life, such as family and job to support your Thai wife and children. ANY Thai who come to the Western world is welcomed and given the chance to get a job and make a honest living. I used to be a carpenter, I am not allowed to work. Even it would be 6.000 baht/month.

[Lamkyong]

2 hours ago, al007 said:

Retirement and Marriage Extensions next on the hit list

and please tell how is that related to work permits ??

[ukrules]

22 minutes ago, Arkady said:

It is definitely very strange. This decree is not just an amendment to existing laws.  It is a replacement.  In Section 3 it cancels the 2008 Working of Aliens Act and 22016 Decree on recruitment of foreign labour.  It was approved by the cabinet in March before the new constitution came into effect but has been passed after the constitution came into effect when new laws have to go through a public hearing process, allowing stakeholders to give their views.  Before the 2008 Working of Aliens Act was passed there were detailed public hearings.  Thai industry bodies and foreign chambers of commerce were rightly and properly invited to air their views.   There are huge implications for Thai employers and for foreign investors and in the interests of the economy and society as a whole one would have thought that they and any other stakeholders, such as Thai labour groups would have been allowed their say this time too, through a normal legislative process. 

 

Normally legislation through Royal decrees is reserved for emergency legislation, particularly relating to financial and tax issues, as well as security issues.  They seem to be representing this as a security issue.     

 

This demonstrates that it was a very high priority for them to get this law onto the books.

 

[zzidenn]

Try to work illegally in Germany or any other European country, what's the fuss? I wonder if one gets fined 400k for employing a Burmese maid...will there be a difference if a thai employs an illegal maid, as opposed to a foreigner employing one? So many questions! 

[retarius]

I chose Thailand as a place for my retirement. I could have gone many other places. It now seems that there is no place for foreigners in Thailand. This is the thin end of the wedge, they will be coming for retirement extension holders soon, then perhaps married folk. Maybe I'll go back to the States. The outright racism and corruption here is disappointing.

[kamahele]

In the US, fines for employers of foreign workers can reach up to $11,000 per employee. The foreigner working without permit is to be deported and possibly banned. I would think other countries have similar laws to protect their own work force. 

[miamiman123]

So when did Thailand begin to seek public opinion on laws or formal decrees? Come on.

[HuaHinHim]

3 hours ago, the guest said:

This xenophobic country has surely sent a very clear message, "we don't want foreigners" !

It's an old message 

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

It is definitely very strange. This decree is not just an amendment to existing laws.  It is a replacement.  In Section 3 it cancels the 2008 Working of Aliens Act and 22016 Decree on recruitment of foreign labour.  It was approved by the cabinet in March before the new constitution came into effect but has been passed after the constitution came into effect when new laws have to go through a public hearing process, allowing stakeholders to give their views.  Before the 2008 Working of Aliens Act was passed there were detailed public hearings.  Thai industry bodies and foreign chambers of commerce were rightly and properly invited to air their views.   There are huge implications for Thai employers and for foreign investors and in the interests of the economy and society as a whole one would have thought that they and any other stakeholders, such as Thai labour groups would have been allowed their say this time too, through a normal legislative process. 

 

Normally legislation through Royal decrees is reserved for emergency legislation, particularly relating to financial and tax issues, as well as security issues.  They seem to be representing this as a security issue.     

There is no security threat by alien workers so that cant be it. I think this was done the way it was to avoid public scrutiny and to  save time. Juntas and transparency dont go well together. I think this law is to provide the PM with some defence when he sees Trump. The new law can be seen as protection against human trafficing. It may relate to TIP and has nothing to do with TV members thats working in the country. If they followed the normal route the law could not be passed before the proposed Trump meeting thus they used the steamroller.

[happysanook]

These old, otherwise useless coots got nothing better to do than try and make excuses for the existence of their positions, while feeling a bit of power. It's the same in the USA. These committees bloat up the rules and laws to make an excuse for having them around. If they don't go around making new rules and huffin n puffin, what good are they? So, huff n puff they do.

[bkkcanuck8]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

It is definitely very strange. This decree is not just an amendment to existing laws.  It is a replacement.  In Section 3 it cancels the 2008 Working of Aliens Act and 22016 Decree on recruitment of foreign labour.  It was approved by the cabinet in March before the new constitution came into effect but has been passed after the constitution came into effect when new laws have to go through a public hearing process, allowing stakeholders to give their views.  Before the 2008 Working of Aliens Act was passed there were detailed public hearings.  Thai industry bodies and foreign chambers of commerce were rightly and properly invited to air their views.   There are huge implications for Thai employers and for foreign investors and in the interests of the economy and society as a whole one would have thought that they and any other stakeholders, such as Thai labour groups would have been allowed their say this time too, through a normal legislative process. 

 

Normally legislation through Royal decrees is reserved for emergency legislation, particularly relating to financial and tax issues, as well as security issues.  They seem to be representing this as a security issue.     

The cynic in me does not think it is very strange.... 

 

The "emergency" side of coming up with "the law" was directly related to the problems with regards to international pressure with respect to human trafficking.  At a certain level being cited and cajoled over it is probably taken as a loss of face for Thailand and they want to do just enough to get themselves taken off such lists.  At a certain level the people behind the scenes view it as a problem caused primarily by foreigners.... who they don't really like and don't associate with and assume any ill effects from a chilling environment -- they are far above it to be a major impact directly to themselves.

 

Once the law change was in motion, there would be many vested interests (again more at the "hiso level") that would lobby for things that they think would help deal a blow to the problem of too many foreigners.  That pesky section 77 that keeps on cropping up.... that was put there to hamper the "wrong people" by forcing them to jump through hoops and make the government of the day think twice before moving "wrong headed" legislation through the legislature with undo speed and lack of input.   Section 77 was never suppose to be used against the right governing people from doing the right thing.... so it will be interesting to see if the courts ignore it until the "wrong people" get elected or it will be applied equally.

[Belzybob]

Every edict this regime issues appears to be nothing but a hurried hand job. I'm sure that Prayut is not destined to have a 'happy ending'.

[Yme]

Why do all the white people on here suddenly think this is about them? It's about illegal migrant labour on building sites, in factories, on boats, working in call centres, or tour guides. A number that greatly outweighs the number of "farang" working in Thailand either legally or illegally. Some of the new clauses appear directly related to several high profile court cases involving migrant and immigrant labour over the past year. The new law also formalises contract farming.  If you are illegal, then you are illegal. No different to laws in most of our own home countries. Nothing to moan about. Times are a changing. Thailand is growing up.  

Edited June 29, 2017 by Yme

[Belzybob]

3 minutes ago, Yme said:

Times are a changing. Thailand is growing up.  

That would be wonderful, fingers crossed.

[Yann55]

4 hours ago, the guest said:

This xenophobic country has surely sent a very clear message, "we don't want foreigners" !

 

Sadly, it's a very widespread message, all over the world. Everybody seems to hate everybody else these days, and 'foreigners' are the universal scapegoats, pretty much everywhere. So I guess Thailand authorities are just eager to show that they won't be outdone on that terrain ...

 

I've lived in this beautiful country for 16 years. My impression is that xenophobia became visible about 10/12 years ago and then grew exponentially in the past 4/5 years or so. Thaksin was quite vocal on the issue, and it doesn't take a Phd in psychology to point out that the name of his very first Party (Thai Rak Thai, meaning Thais love Thais) clearly implied that Thais don't like foreigners.

 

Unfortunately it's one of the few stances that his successors - all of them - took over without a second thought.

 

Wouldn't it be great if politicians from opposing camps could find other, and preferably positive opinions to agree upon ...