The poisonous Brother in Law

[Been there done that]

4 hours ago, totally thaied up said:

I thought deeply about this.

 

Before we got married, we sat down over a period of months, and we had good talks. Most say do not show all your eggs to them, but when you do not have many eggs to start with, my wife whom is an educated person saw what she was walking into with me, and it was not much better than say a  small Thai business person with average earnings.

 

She could pull no BS, and most likely, it was not in her best interests to even marry me. The only thing I did was do some work on her house and compared to what I was spending before going out all the time as a single man and playing the field; I am now saving money. The money I have spent on her house to make it farang livable was just six months of money spent me being single. I have well paid it back now in just not paying rent on a Condo!

 

Can this relationship work?

 

Lord only knows. She does know I come from a wealthy family but knows that it is so tied up in law and Trusts and the such, she can and will never have any form of say in it. Upon my families death, I will have to deal with it all but like I stated in another post a long time ago, I do not want to even think about that as money has only caused me trouble. 

 

You still can walk away. Nothing holds you. Just got to be prepared to lose. I have done it before; it hurts, but then, my life now is certainly much better. The only big stick I have in my shed is I have nothing to give or lose. I know the reason my wife stays and why she says she loves me. It is deeply personal and goes back to a motorcycle accident she had at 17.

 

I know farangs married village style, and the family still stuffs them over. I feel it is more they have us on the hook and like one poster above said, it is like a vampire knowing NOT to suck you dry. It is a perfected art form. I know one guy now whose family sent the girl (village married) back to him a few months ago from Issan (after a fight) and she hates the guy but is just following orders from the Mother. The Mother said she was no use at home to them gambling and playing cards all night with her friends, so put her on the bus and that was it.

 

So yep, can still not be married, but village married and have the above BS as well. Yes, you can just walk from it but I have seen so many not take that step, and that is what this thread is about. I could be back here in a year stating I am going back home and my wife was a leech. Who is to say anything as we cannot tell the future but I am sure a few reading this thread may see what is ahead of them and maybe able to forfeit a sad ending.

Just stay detached emotionally. 

[swissie]

Some Farangs had the privilege (the luck) to marry an "educated" Thai-Lady. Thus increasing the chance of matrimonial success somewhat.

But most Farangs marry a country girl with limited education, believing in ghosts, being chained to the family-clan for life, having realised that the fastest (the only) way out of their dismal life is to marry a Farang.

Now, what type of woman would fit this description (in the US, for example)?

= a HILLBILLY-Girl! I would think that most US males would not find a Hillbilly-Girl in the US as a "price to win".

But then, once some Farangs hit the shores of Thailand, they prefer to set their Live-Compass (called common sense) on "de-activate".
Well, if it's not that, then it must be in the water......
---------------------
On a more serious note: Farangs, having lived in the age of "Womans-Liberation" in the west, must find it refreshing to encounter a type of female that displays a mild form of "servility" (everything up to you). Those females, perfectly content of being females and not aspiring to become "men". Plus the outlook of becoming part of a "tight-knit" Thai Family can be tempting.

But there is no "free-lunch". It literally comes at a price. If the "price" remains constant (according to prior agreements): Fine! But the "price" tendentially becomes inflationary as time goes by. At this point, it dosn't take the talents of a clairvoyant to know what eventually will have to happen.
Cheers.
PS: After way over 1000 posts, the likelyhood of somebody having posted exactly the same thing before is almost inevitable. I may have violated copy-rights. Ouuuh....

[swissie]

The fact that this Thread has (so far) drawn 1079 posts and 23'000 views clearly indicates that Marriage/Thai Family matters are THE issues that eventually can easily take center-stage as far as "long-term-residency" is concerned for most Farangs.

Sad to say, that most posts do not describe a worry-free "retirement-situation" as planned and hoped for.

This Marriage/Domestic issue is likely to dwarf other major concerns like: Immigration-Matters, traffic mayhem, the Bht getting stronger and stronger, the heat and humidity during April to October getting worse every year, etc etc.

To a Farang, deeply entangled in negative "domestic-issues", above inconveniances must appear as "trivial".

There is a growing number of voices recommendig "rent, don't buy" with the purpose of avoiding "poisonous brothers in law" among other things. But usually they are talking to the wind....
Cheers.   

[oldhippy]

Swissie,

You make some very accurate observations.

But the mistakes are not made only by farangs who did not think things through.

 

Typical: Whenever my wife and I meet Thai women (friends of friends or so) they will ask my wife the inevitable question: "do you know a farang for me?".

Those who ask this are not bargirls (as there aren't any where we live), and usually they are not poverty stricken (as Chanthaburi is a rich area).

Often these women - of all ages - don't even speak English.

And any farang will do. While they surely would prefer a George Clooney, they are not choosy!

 

 

[oldhippy]

3 hours ago, Been there done that said:

Just stay detached emotionally. 

... and do not confuse sex and love. Thais don't. Older farangs do.

 

[Odysseus123]

10 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

... and do not confuse sex and love. Thais don't. Older farangs do.

 

Indeed they do..

 

Hence the element of shocked surprise-almost stunned immobility-when they discover that they are in a very dangerous situation..when the mantra "I lub you-give me money!" has lost its gloss and the truth stands revealed..

 

"Give me money -and I will lub you until a better offer comes along."

[oldhippy]

6 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Indeed they do..

 

Hence the element of shocked surprise-almost stunned immobility-when they discover that they are in a very dangerous situation..when the mantra "I lub you-give me money!" has lost its gloss and the truth stands revealed..

 

"Give me money -and I will lub you until a better offer comes along."

May I be the devil's lawyer?

 

We agree of course: I posted it, you liked it.

BUT.

There is also the madonna - whore complex that we farangs have been indoctrinated with.

Most Thais see sex as a simple part of life, just like f ex eating.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Would you continue going  to the same restaurant if you were bored with their food?

 

 

 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

23 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Swissie,

You make some very accurate observations.

But the mistakes are not made only by farangs who did not think things through.

 

Typical: Whenever my wife and I meet Thai women (friends of friends or so) they will ask my wife the inevitable question: "do you know a farang for me?".

Those who ask this are not bargirls (as there aren't any where we live), and usually they are not poverty stricken (as Chanthaburi is a rich area).

Often these women - of all ages - don't even speak English.

And any farang will do. While they surely would prefer a George Clooney, they are not choosy!

 

 

When I first went over there there were numerous women who asked me to put them in touch with Aussies..none of whom could speak English worth a damn nor did they show any interest in my country or it's culture (whatever that may be).It seemed to be yet another feature of the "cargo cultism" that permeates life in Thailand "I find a foreigner/rich Thai and tins of spam/plates of som tam will fall from the sky...."

 

Like your experience they seem to come more from an aspiring socio-economic group then the really poor girls who were pretty much unable to conceive of life beyond their local alley way or village.

 

 

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, Odysseus123 said:

When I first went over there there were numerous women who asked me to put them in touch with Aussies..none of whom could speak English worth a damn nor did they show any interest in my country or it's culture (whatever that may be).It seemed to be yet another feature of the "cargo cultism" that permeates life in Thailand "I find a foreigner/rich Thai and tins of spam/plates of som tam will fall from the sky...."

 

Like your experience they seem to come more from an aspiring socio-economic group then the really poor girls who were pretty much unable to conceive of life beyond their local alley way or village.

 

 

I very much like your "cargo cult" comparison.....

[Odysseus123]

2 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

May I be the devil's lawyer?

 

We agree of course: I posted it, you liked it.

BUT.

There is also the madonna - whore complex that we farangs have been indoctrinated with.

Most Thais see sex as a simple part of life, just like f ex eating.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Would you continue going  to the same restaurant if you were bored with their food?

 

 

 

 

 

Nope-but then I have never married a restaurant either...

 

However I do understand what you are saying-please see my post above about partners reverting to their cultural default settings.

[Rc2702]

Not heard of the dark lord in a while. I think that must mean he got the job and is knee deep in planning for Christmas I reckon. 

 

I am disappointed with OSA previous comment about the liverpool thread but I recognise jealousy when it flashes it's green. I think he's like half a Tottenham and half a man city fan so no wonder he likes to look after a bunch of pussies Lol.

 

Sorry chaps, as you were saying.

 

 

[oldhippy]

My conclusion:

Of course there are evil people, Thais and Farangs.

But most problems are the result of cultural differences.

"Cultural" in a very broad (sociological) sense, including tradition, income levels, formal education, family ties, social security system, etc.

[oldhippy]

It is 4.23 now.....

Woke up for a visit to the toilet.

Interesting conversation here though.

I have to go back to sleep, so I can wake up again in about 1 hour.

Life is hard in the tropics!

[Odysseus123]

19 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

My conclusion:

Of course there are evil people, Thais and Farangs.

But most problems are the result of cultural differences.

"Cultural" in a very broad (sociological) sense, including tradition, income levels, formal education, family ties, social security system, etc.

OldHippy,

 

My thoughts exactly.I have never tried to paint the Thai with an "evil" brush.

 

What I have tried to do is describe is my struggle to get back to my own cultural "default" settings and commence to make sane and rational decisions pertaining to my physical health.

 

They were decisions that had to be made and,ultimately,they were made.

 

I certainly do not envisage a future career as a Thai hater/baiter and feel no real need to do so.Nevertheless,an objective analysis of what went wrong will,hopefully,stand me in good stead in the future.

 

Cheers!

Edited August 31, 2017 by Odysseus123
clarity.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

2 hours ago, swissie said:

Some Farangs had the privilege (the luck) to marry an "educated" Thai-Lady. Thus increasing the chance of matrimonial success somewhat.

But most Farangs marry a country girl with limited education, believing in ghosts, being chained to the family-clan for life, having realised that the fastest (the only) way out of their dismal life is to marry a Farang.

Now, what type of woman would fit this description (in the US, for example)?

= a HILLBILLY-Girl! I would think that most US males would not find a Hillbilly-Girl in the US as a "price to win".

But then, once some Farangs hit the shores of Thailand, they prefer to set their Live-Compass (called common sense) on "de-activate".
Well, if it's not that, then it must be in the water......
---------------------
On a more serious note: Farangs, having lived in the age of "Womans-Liberation" in the west, must find it refreshing to encounter a type of female that displays a mild form of "servility" (everything up to you). Those females, perfectly content of being females and not aspiring to become "men". Plus the outlook of becoming part of a "tight-knit" Thai Family can be tempting.

But there is no "free-lunch". It literally comes at a price. If the "price" remains constant (according to prior agreements): Fine! But the "price" tendentially becomes inflationary as time goes by. At this point, it dosn't take the talents of a clairvoyant to know what eventually will have to happen.
Cheers.
PS: After way over 1000 posts, the likelyhood of somebody having posted exactly the same thing before is almost inevitable. I may have violated copy-rights. Ouuuh....

Great post, and I must have read most others.

What people keep missing is the Thai xenophobia and how difficult it is to meet or court a "decent" Thai woman here.

Those who come as tourists and fall in love with bar girls and farangs  living here in lower paid jobs have little chance to have a serious relationship with even a middle class Thai girl.

(Please don't talk about computer dating as that has more hookers than all the go go bars and coffee shops in the country.)

Tourists save for 8 months for a two week holiday and want to live like kings (gold shop etc etc), which they can, but it gives the girls the wrong impression.

The family is embedded in Thai culture as is "face" and there is no way to totally avoid it if you want a relationship.

All women come with baggage of one sort or another, that's why there are so many mother-in-law jokes...

 

 

 

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Swissie,

You make some very accurate observations.

But the mistakes are not made only by farangs who did not think things through.

 

Typical: Whenever my wife and I meet Thai women (friends of friends or so) they will ask my wife the inevitable question: "do you know a farang for me?".

Those who ask this are not bargirls (as there aren't any where we live), and usually they are not poverty stricken (as Chanthaburi is a rich area).

Often these women - of all ages - don't even speak English.

And any farang will do. While they surely would prefer a George Clooney, they are not choosy!

 

 

You tend to forget that all women have a different mind set in the DNA.

It is not about the most handsome mate, the number one requisite is about a provider and best to produce children with.

Getting a good looking guy is a bonus.

But that's just my opinion...

 

 

 

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

1 hour ago, Rc2702 said:

Not heard of the dark lord in a while. I think that must mean he got the job and is knee deep in planning for Christmas I reckon. 

 

I am disappointed with OSA previous comment about the liverpool thread but I recognise jealousy when it flashes it's green. I think he's like half a Tottenham and half a man city fan so no wonder he likes to look after a bunch of pussies Lol.

 

Sorry chaps, as you were saying.

 

 

We will hear from TDL in the near future I expect.

Back in the UK he has yet to experience a few things since he was last there. It isn't the land of milk, honey and money trees, even in the stockbroker belt. I wonder how many Polish, Romanian and other EU immigrants his sister has?

 

Yes, keep the football off this thread, but it was funny, maybe an Arsenal fan, as Liverpool have had nothing to shout about for many years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

19 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

You tend to forget that all women have a different mind set in the DNA.

It is not about the most handsome mate, the number one requisite is about a provider and best to produce children with.

Getting a good looking guy is a bonus.

But that's just my opinion...

 

 

 

 

 

I think that those women who ask about foreigners have been married before and therefore their marriageability in Thai society is quite low..or they have remained single long past their Thai marriage due date.

 

This poses a whole series of conundrums for them-problems that might be solved by stepping outside the usual cultural norms and expectations.

 

However,once having snagged their catch (if they do, which is not very likely) the tendency is then to step back into those cultural expectations so a great deal of cognitive dissonance is then created especially as I tend to agree with you that the Thai display a massive amount of cultural xenophobia in the first place.

 

So..to put it in a nutshell...

Step outside of the usual social/cultural norms to marry.

Step straight back into them when it is convenient to do so.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Odysseus123

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

11 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

I think that those women who ask about foreigners have been married before and therefore their marriageability in Thai society is quite low..or they have remained single long past their Thai marriage due date.

 

This poses a whole series of conundrums for them-problems that might be solved by stepping outside the usual cultural norms and expectations.

 

However,once having snagged their catch (if they do, which is not very likely) the tendency is then to step back into those cultural expectations so a great deal of cognitive dissonance is then created especially as I tend to agree with you that the Thai display a great deal of cultural xenophobia in the first place.

 

So..to put it in a nutshell...

Step outside of the usual social/cultural norms to marry.

Step straight back into them when it is convenient to do so.

As usual I do agree, and I am pleased you are conversant with the situations I was talking about.

In my experience the inquiries from friends and relatives of the current G/F about your farang friends is not always from divorcees. They see westerners as more faithful than Thai men, not just richer, but it doesn't stop the irrational jealousy cropping up!

Cross cultural marriage is a minefield wherever you do it.

Class (monetary or social) is still a problem. Shakespeare wrote Romeo and Juliette in the 16 Century...

 

Cheers,

G

 

[Been there done that]

3 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

I think that those women who ask about foreigners have been married before and therefore their marriageability in Thai society is quite low..or they have remained single long past their Thai marriage due date.

 

This poses a whole series of conundrums for them-problems that might be solved by stepping outside the usual cultural norms and expectations.

 

However,once having snagged their catch (if they do, which is not very likely) the tendency is then to step back into those cultural expectations so a great deal of cognitive dissonance is then created especially as I tend to agree with you that the Thai display a massive amount of cultural xenophobia in the first place.

 

So..to put it in a nutshell...

Step outside of the usual social/cultural norms to marry.

Step straight back into them when it is convenient to do so.

Your last sentence, dont live in the village thus, surrounded by family.

Dont marry too 

[transam]

3 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

I think that those women who ask about foreigners have been married before and therefore their marriageability in Thai society is quite low..or they have remained single long past their Thai marriage due date.

 

This poses a whole series of conundrums for them-problems that might be solved by stepping outside the usual cultural norms and expectations.

 

However,once having snagged their catch (if they do, which is not very likely) the tendency is then to step back into those cultural expectations so a great deal of cognitive dissonance is then created especially as I tend to agree with you that the Thai display a massive amount of cultural xenophobia in the first place.

 

So..to put it in a nutshell...

Step outside of the usual social/cultural norms to marry.

Step straight back into them when it is convenient to do so.

Most Thai couples I know have been married before and re-married Thai's..Many birds that married farangs had mega financial probs to clear up and/or lumbered with offspring..

[sandrabbit]

 

[Odysseus123]

3 hours ago, transam said:

Most Thai couples I know have been married before and re-married Thai's..Many birds that married farangs had mega financial probs to clear up and/or lumbered with offspring..

Very true,Trans,very true!

[owl sees all]

9 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

I am disappointed with OSA previous comment about the liverpool thread but I recognise jealousy when it flashes it's green. I think he's like half a Tottenham and half a man city fan so no wonder he likes to look after a bunch of pussies Lol

Sorry about that Boss. The thread was invaded by J1980 and I thought sending him where his abrasive comments and worthless content would be least appreciated might be a good idea. Spurs and City posters are to gentlemanly; they would never be able to get shot of him.

Edited September 1, 2017 by owl sees all
added more content

[totally thaied up]

16 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Class (monetary or social) is still a problem. Shakespeare wrote Romeo and Juliette in the 16 Century...

This to date has been my number one problem. Not so much monetary but social. The farangs are just as bad as the Thais and the Thais as bad as the farangs. Elevate a village girl with cash, so does the social BS level gravitate and get a farang that has only a couple of 100K in the bank and is now an instant millionaire, there is very little difference. 

 

When you have very little sense between both parties in a union, it can become a Shakespearean tragedy very quickly. One gentleman I know bought his wife a set of implants. A few years on and he is now very broke, and he laments the fact her Thai boyfriend is the current owner of them.

 

Just one of many stories here but in all honesty, the social side and the face part does my head in.  

 

12 hours ago, transam said:

Most Thai couples I know have been married before and re-married Thai's..Many birds that married farangs had mega financial probs to clear up and/or lumbered with offspring..

My number one rule was to never date a Thai with any offspring at all. I know it sounds cruel, but the very first question I would ask on any date. 

[Odysseus123]

5 hours ago, totally thaied up said:

This to date has been my number one problem. Not so much monetary but social. The farangs are just as bad as the Thais and the Thais as bad as the farangs. Elevate a village girl with cash, so does the social BS level gravitate and get a farang that has only a couple of 100K in the bank and is now an instant millionaire, there is very little difference. 

 

When you have very little sense between both parties in a union, it can become a Shakespearean tragedy very quickly. One gentleman I know bought his wife a set of implants. A few years on and he is now very broke, and he laments the fact her Thai boyfriend is the current owner of them.

 

Just one of many stories here but in all honesty, the social side and the face part does my head in.  

 

My number one rule was to never date a Thai with any offspring at all. I know it sounds cruel, but the very first question I would ask on any date. 

"My number one rule.."

 

It is a very good rule-so stick with it!

 

Altho' I have been categorically assured (on TV and other places) that parenting the wife's offspring can be a joyous experience, in practice from what I saw it tended to be an absolute disaster. The little princes and princesses of Isaan had,generally speaking,been spoilt rotten long before the foreigner turned up.

 

I noted with interest that a German doctor shipped his wife's 22 year old bludging son back to Thailand-won't study or work?Back to the Land of Drones...

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

5 hours ago, totally thaied up said:

This to date has been my number one problem. Not so much monetary but social. The farangs are just as bad as the Thais and the Thais as bad as the farangs. Elevate a village girl with cash, so does the social BS level gravitate and get a farang that has only a couple of 100K in the bank and is now an instant millionaire, there is very little difference. 

 

When you have very little sense between both parties in a union, it can become a Shakespearean tragedy very quickly. One gentleman I know bought his wife a set of implants. A few years on and he is now very broke, and he laments the fact her Thai boyfriend is the current owner of them.

 

Just one of many stories here but in all honesty, the social side and the face part does my head in.  

 

My number one rule was to never date a Thai with any offspring at all. I know it sounds cruel, but the very first question I would ask on any date. 

Famous court case about husbands paying for implants in a divorce settlement; Judge ordered the husband access one weekend a month, but not at the city zoo!

 

(sorry, just an old joke)

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

6 hours ago, totally thaied up said:

This to date has been my number one problem. Not so much monetary but social. The farangs are just as bad as the Thais and the Thais as bad as the farangs. Elevate a village girl with cash, so does the social BS level gravitate and get a farang that has only a couple of 100K in the bank and is now an instant millionaire, there is very little difference. 

 

When you have very little sense between both parties in a union, it can become a Shakespearean tragedy very quickly. One gentleman I know bought his wife a set of implants. A few years on and he is now very broke, and he laments the fact her Thai boyfriend is the current owner of them.

 

Just one of many stories here but in all honesty, the social side and the face part does my head in.  

 

My number one rule was to never date a Thai with any offspring at all. I know it sounds cruel, but the very first question I would ask on any date. 

On a more serious note.

I understand exactly what you mean.

But it is unavoidable.

All women come with baggage...

If you find an orphan with no kids she will have something to obsess about at your mental and/or financial cost.

Shoes or yappie little dogs?

 

If you want to live upcountry alone then that is fine.

If you don't want a relationship, just a shag a couple of times a week, you can do that too here. I have plenty of mates that do that.

If you do fall for a woman wherever you live, you need to do the pros (pun intended) and cons calculation, and deal with the decision you make.

Of course all relationships have ups and downs over the years, but sometimes another decision needs to be made like Ody and TDL when it becomes more than you can stand (or afford).

 

G

 

[Odysseus123]

On 8/30/2017 at 8:34 PM, owl sees all said:

Not a bad idea. A new post entitled; "True stories from the LOL."

 

Aussie Mark was a shock. A couple of months before his passing he said something like "I want you to have one of my ATM cards. It's got a few baht in it. If anything should happen I want you to see 'Jin' OK."

 

Jin was the youngest daughter from his gf (long term). He told me she was the only one in the family that really cared for him. There was two million baht in the account.

 

I went back to UK for 6 weeks and he died the week before I got back. Very suspious. He was cremated while his son was on his way over from Perth to persuade him to go back. No idea what happened to the ATM card he mentioned. I am still in touch with his son.

 

I pass his beautiful house occasionally. I have to hold back the tears when I do.

 

There is far more but,,,,,,,,, another  thread.

Wise Old Owl,

I find this story to be quite unsettling because I have seen certain elements of it in play amongst the foreigners I knew-and myself.

 

So the family knew that there was something terribly wrong and were about to launch a rescue mission?

 

What were the odds,do you think,that the mission would have succeeded?

[owl sees all]

9 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

So the family knew that there was something terribly wrong and were about to launch a rescue mission?

 

What were the odds,do you think,that the mission would have succeeded?

The quick answer to the question is I think not a lot. Funny enough myself and Ron (his only two friends here for years) were talking about this only yesterday. Mark was not good at listener. I saw his gf with this Thai guy some 2 years earlier and had words with him (Mark). That night he called me and said that "everything was sorted". About 10ish his gf was on the phone to  Mrs Owl. It really had nothing tps do with her and she gave as good as she got. Next day however my favourite cat was dead in the road to our farm. There was other stuff too; much more.

 

I took a more considered view of things after that. Mark was a wealthy guy and had been about Asia for years. I think he just couldn't believe that the lady he so obviously loved could think so little of him. The relation with Jin was also a little strange; enough said.

 

The Thai guy has virtually taken over her property. To be honest I just don't think she can get shot of him now. It's common knowledge amongst the Thais in the villages what happened. But they are not good at coming forward especially when a farang is involved.