NATO allies look for reassurance from Trump in Warsaw

[webfact]

NATO allies look for reassurance from Trump in Warsaw

By Marcin Goclowski and Roberta Rampton

 

U.S. President Donald Trump and First Lady Melania Trump arrive at Warsaw military airport in Warsaw, Poland July 5, 2017. REUTERS/Laszlo Balogh

 

WARSAW (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump meets eastern NATO allies in Warsaw on Thursday amid expectations he will reaffirm Washington's commitment to counter threats from Russia after unnerving them in May by failing to endorse the principle of collective defence.

 

En route to a potentially fractious G20 summit in Germany, Trump will take part in a gathering of leaders from central Europe, Baltic states and the Balkans, an event convened by Poland and Croatia to boost regional trade and infrastructure.

 

The White House has said Trump will use the stopover in Warsaw to showcase his commitment to the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which he once called "obsolete", a likely effort to patch up relations after the tense alliance summit in May.

 

Poland's conservative and eurosceptic government, which shares views with Trump on issues such climate change, migration and coal mining, has hailed the U.S. president's visit as a recognition of its role as a leading voice in central Europe.

 

The west Europeans, critical of Poland's democratic record, will be watchful as to whether Trump, who will give a major policy speech on a Warsaw square, may encourage its government in its defiance of Brussels.

 

Some west European governments are worried over a deepening divide between east and west within the European Union and some diplomats see Thursday's regional summit as a Polish bid to carve out influence outside EU structures.

 

Poland also wants to buy liquefied natural gas from U.S. companies to counterbalance Russian gas supplies in the region.

 

"We are simply an important country in this part of the world," Polish President Andrzej Duda said in an interview with the PAP news agency.

 

"We are among the biggest countries in Europe, we are a leader of central Europe, and President Trump ... understands this."

 

Like other countries close to the NATO frontline with Russia, Poland will be eager to hear Trump embrace the alliance principle that an attack against one member represents an attack against all of them.

 

Trump, who has praised Russian President Vladimir Putin in the past, flustered allies at his first NATO summit when he dropped a mention of the mutual defence principle, known as Article 5, which is the bedrock of the trans-Atlantic partnership.

 

"The White House sees opportunities to fix the problem that they created in Brussels where it looked like there was a big trans-Atlantic divide," said Julie Smith, who was a national security adviser to former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden.

 

"If he has a very warm welcome in Poland ... that could help push back on the narrative that he's not developing strong partnerships with our closest allies," Smith, now with the Center for a New American Security in Washington, told Reuters.

(Writing by Justyna Pawlak; Editing by Richard Balmforth)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-07-06

[Baerboxer]

Poland asserting itself. 

 

Mrs. Merkel won't like that. Cue another threat from Juncker and the EU commission. And watch for Luxembourg threatening to have them expelled again,

[Andaman Al]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

NATO allies look for reassurance from Trump in Warsaw

Why? Now it is just words that can be said to appease the 'injured'. What really matters are the words that were NOT said during Trumps last European speech. Nothing Trump says now matters. It is like Trump now saying that he is 'concerned about climate change', it is all BS. His protectionist policies will be the rapid downfall of the American Empire. In fact as far as empires go, what we will witness in the US will probably be the quickest downfall of any empire in history.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

7 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

His protectionist policies will be the rapid downfall of the American Empire. In fact as far as empires go, what we will witness in the US will probably be the quickest downfall of any empire in history.

 

No it won't. Calm down. 

[Andaman Al]

2 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

No it won't. Calm down. 

I am very calm  it's not my empire.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

13 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

I am very calm  it's not my empire.

 

Just wanna watch it burn? Seems like you've got some serious feelings a brewin'

 

Sorry to disappoint, but the largest military & economy on the planet isn't going to go down because of Trump, even though you want it to. Which is quite weird. 

[Andaman Al]

7 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Just wanna watch it burn? Seems like you've got some serious feelings a brewin'

 

Sorry to disappoint, but the largest military & economy on the planet isn't going to go down because of Trump, even though you want it to. Which is quite weird. 

Wow. You guys really take 'putting words in someones mouth' to a whole new level.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

2 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Wow. You guys really take 'putting words in someones mouth' to a whole new level.

 

You literally just said it'll be the quickest downfall of any empire in history. 

 

Based on absolutely nothing other than your personal feelings = fake, very fake news. 

[Andaman Al]

1 minute ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

You literally just said it'll be the quickest downfall of any empire in history. 

 

Based on absolutely nothing other than your personal feelings = fake, very fake news. 

And what does that do with me 'wanting to watch it burn' or to see it go down? Four posts Uncletouchyfingers and all at me. Wow we have our very own forum stalker now.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

You literally just said it'll be the quickest downfall of any empire in history. 

 

Based on absolutely nothing other than your personal feelings = fake, very fake news. 

If a doctor tells you you have cancer and you don't have long to live, does that mean he's happy about it?

[Andaman Al]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

If a doctor tells you you have cancer and you don't have long to live, does that mean he's happy about it?

[ddavidovsky]

Someone please explain to me why Russia are still perceived as a threat to the west? I mean to the west (without dragging up Ukraine, which is an irredentism issue between those two states and is nobody else's business).

 

Russia is no longer communist, they're Christian, the Soviet empire is over, they have no plans or incentive to invade or attack Europe, and Russia and the US have a common interest in suppressing Chinese expansionism. The fear is out of date and counterproductive.

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Someone please explain to me why Russia are still perceived as a threat to the west? I mean to the west (without dragging up Ukraine, which is an irredentism issue between those two states and is nobody else's business).

 

Russia is no longer communist, they're Christian, the Soviet empire is over, they have no plans or incentive to invade or attack Europe, and Russia and the US have a common interest in suppressing Chinese expansionism. The fear is out of date and counterproductive.

Aren't you the guy who justified Russia's attacks on the Ukraine as being in defense of their Russian populations? I got news for you, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia all have large Russian populations. By your lights, Russia is entitled to defend them if it believes, or alleges to believe that they are being treated unfairly.

[ddavidovsky]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Aren't you the guy who justified Russia's attacks on the Ukraine as being in defense of their Russian populations? I got news for you, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia all have large Russian populations. By your lights, Russia is entitled to defend them if it believes, or alleges to believe that they are being treated unfairly.

Is that it? The Baltic states?

We've had this discussion before. I've no idea whether there are Russian majority regions in those states who prefer to align with Russia. If there are, and if they want to, then let them, and if so, Russia can be expected to provide assistance, seeing as they are all Russians. That's the point - they are all Russians - it's got nothing to do with NATO.

The same principle applies to any irredentist issue around the world, when it's usually just a case of badly-drawn borders.

 

Is that all you've got? And what has that issue got to do the west, except that they have misguidedly locked themselves into interfering by means of NATO?

[Thaidream]

At one time Crimea was a part of Russia and then taken over as part of the Ukraine. the majority of its population are Russian speakers.  the reason Putin took it back was his irritation that Ukraine was trying to become part of Nato which would put another country with Western leanings directly at Russia's door.  Putin drew a line and said no more.

Frankly, I can't blame him. At one time the US did the same thing with Cuba when Russia placed missiles there. America tried to invade Cuba and was rebuffed  IMHO Nato and Europe has over reacted to the Russian annexation.

[ilostmypassword]

33 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Is that it? The Baltic states?

We've had this discussion before. I've no idea whether there are Russian majority regions in those states who prefer to align with Russia. If there are, and if they want to, then let them, and if so, Russia can be expected to provide assistance, seeing as they are all Russians. That's the point - they are all Russians - it's got nothing to do with NATO.

The same principle applies to any irredentist issue around the world, when it's usually just a case of badly-drawn borders.

 

Is that all you've got? And what has that issue got to do the west, except that they have misguidedly locked themselves into interfering by means of NATO?

So the European states have nothing to fear except those that do.

[Morch]

53 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Someone please explain to me why Russia are still perceived as a threat to the west? I mean to the west (without dragging up Ukraine, which is an irredentism issue between those two states and is nobody else's business).

 

Russia is no longer communist, they're Christian, the Soviet empire is over, they have no plans or incentive to invade or attack Europe, and Russia and the US have a common interest in suppressing Chinese expansionism. The fear is out of date and counterproductive.

 

It's been explained. On numerous topics.

You're not interested in the answers. You're pushing an idea.

 

And as for the kumbaya and grand designs bit, sure thing:

 

Aleksandr Dugin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin

 

Foundations of Geopolitics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

 

Whatever it is you're selling, I'm not buying.

[ddavidovsky]

19 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

It's been explained. On numerous topics.

You're not interested in the answers. You're pushing an idea.

 

And as for the kumbaya and grand designs bit, sure thing:

 

Aleksandr Dugin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin

 

Foundations of Geopolitics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

 

Whatever it is you're selling, I'm not buying.

Can you just give me a clear answer?

 

If I'm pushing anything, it's world peace. What are you pushing?

 

Edited July 6, 2017 by ddavidovsky

[ddavidovsky]

20 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

So the European states have nothing to fear except those that do.

 

What they mainly should fear is the creation of an artificial enemy and the deliberate sowing of tension, which is what NATO is doing. Tension breeds tension. The west needs Russia on its side. The west shouldn't worry about Latvia any more than Russia should worry about Northern Ireland.

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Can you just give me a clear answer?

I think it's pretty clear.

 

 

[Andaman Al]

5 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

What they mainly should fear is the creation of an artificial enemy and the deliberate sowing of tension, which is what NATO is doing. Tension breeds tension. The west needs Russia on its side. The west shouldn't worry about Latvia any more than Russia should worry about Northern Ireland.

I don't think the Ukraine agrees with you. NATO is not creating any enemy. By the way for almost 50 years that 'tension' in the West created by NATO led to 50 years of peace because the Soviets knew that if they made a move they would be dust. Now there is no unified solidarity against Russia and they are playing economic and strategic war games with the West. I am simply amazed that you think a leopard will change it's spots.

[ddavidovsky]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

I think it's pretty clear.

 

 

Nope. Can you just articulate it in actual words? All I'm getting so far is a perceived threat to the the Baltic States, and some links to a nationalist lunatic no one in the west has ever heard of. You're saying the existence of NATO is justified on that account?

 

There's no more dangerous world than one led by paranoia and concocted insecurity.

 

NATO is out of date. It was created to counter the threat of communism which was at one time trying to take over the world like Dr Evil.

[Andaman Al]

1 minute ago, ddavidovsky said:

There's no more dangerous world than one led by paranoia and concocted insecurity.

Tweet that to Trump please.

[ddavidovsky]

1 minute ago, Andaman Al said:

I don't think the Ukraine agrees with you. NATO is not creating any enemy. By the way for almost 50 years that 'tension' in the West created by NATO led to 50 years of peace because the Soviets knew that if they made a move they would be dust. Now there is no unified solidarity against Russia and they are playing economic and strategic war games with the West. I am simply amazed that you think a leopard will change it's spots.

Wake up. The communism threat is dead.

[ddavidovsky]

Just now, Andaman Al said:

Tweet that to Trump please.

It was rather a good line, worthy of Churchill if I say so myself.

So now you agree with me that this whole anti-Russia thing, and the continued existence of NATO, is mere paranoia? I'm making progress then.

[boomerangutang]

2 hours ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

You literally just said it'll be the quickest downfall of any empire in history.  Based on absolutely nothing other than your personal feelings = fake, very fake news. 

He mentioned it within an informed opinion.  No one presented it as 'news.'

 

1 hour ago, ddavidovsky said:

Someone please explain to me why Russia are still perceived as a threat to the west? I mean to the west (without dragging up Ukraine, which is an irredentism issue between those two states and is nobody else's business). 

Russia is no longer communist, they're Christian, the Soviet empire is over, they have no plans or incentive to invade or attack Europe, and Russia and the US have a common interest in suppressing Chinese expansionism. The fear is out of date and counterproductive.

                       You're partly right (particularly in relation to China).  The US generally gets along rather well with Russia.   But it's a wary relationship, mostly due to the not-too-distant reverberations from the Cold War and the N Arms Race.  I can understand how younger generations wonder why there are tensions, but elder generations on both sides still remember how things were in the 2nd half of the 20th century.

 

                        It's rather like having a party and inviting 30 adept magicians to your house.  You might not want to leave valuable pocket-sized items sitting around all over.  I'm not saying the Russians steal any more than any other nationality, but instead; we know how there's been massive deception from both sides (USA and USSR) for decades, so both sides are still playing their hands warily.

 

57 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

At one time Crimea was a part of Russia and then taken over as part of the Ukraine. the majority of its population are Russian speakers.  the reason Putin took it back was his irritation that Ukraine was trying to become part of Nato which would put another country with Western leanings directly at Russia's door.  Putin drew a line and said no more.

Frankly, I can't blame him. At one time the US did the same thing with Cuba when Russia placed missiles there. America tried to invade Cuba and was rebuffed  IMHO Nato and Europe has over reacted to the Russian annexation.

                            Russia should not take military action when it wants to get its way.  Ukraine was/is a sovereign nation since the disintegration of the USSR.  Putin may have been annoyed by some things, but that's no justification/excuse to militarily take over another country.  

 

                               According to your logic, if there are more Spanish speakers in San Diego, Fresno and L.A. than English speakers, that's justification for Mexico to militarily annex southern California. While they're at it, they can take back NM, AZ and half of Texas.  Trump will be too busy playing golf or tweeting, to notice.

[boomerangutang]

4 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Wake up. The communism threat is dead.

Maybe so, but the desire by Putin and his buddies to bring back former Soviet states is not dead at all. 

 

The 3 small Baltic states are just part of the puzzle.  There's also Belarus, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Moldova, and five -Stan countries.   Putin wants those countries back as part of Mother Russia, and now that he's got his buddinsky Trump as US prez, it's looking much more plausible.   

[ddavidovsky]

3 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

                               According to your logic, if there are more Spanish speakers in San Diego, Fresno and L.A. than English speakers, that's justification for Mexico to militarily annex southern California. While they're at it, they can take back NM, AZ and half of Texas.  Trump will be too busy playing golf or tweeting, to notice.

No, you've twisted that in two ways. First, Latinos aren't the indigenous population in those areas, second, even supposing they were, you would have to suppose that the majority population themselves declared themselves aligned with Mexico. In that case, then by all means let them. It's inadmissible to oppress a majority.

[ddavidovsky]

1 minute ago, boomerangutang said:

Maybe so, but the desire by Putin and his buddies to bring back former Soviet states is not dead at all. 

 

The 3 small Baltic states are just part of the puzzle.  There's also Belarus, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Moldova, and five -Stan countries.   Putin wants those countries back as part of Mother Russia, and now that he's got his buddinsky Trump as US prez, it's looking much more plausible.   

I repeat: There's no more dangerous world than one led by paranoia and concocted insecurity.

 

Told you it was a good line.

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

I repeat: There's no more dangerous world than one led by paranoia and concocted insecurity.

 

Told you it was a good line.

Tell that to the Georgians and the Moldovans.