Second UK Visit Visa Refusal

[rasg]

5 hours ago, theoldgit said:

 

I think it's probably because those who have had applications refused are more inclined to post the details of their refusals than those who have been successful, hopefully looking for some meaningful advice on this forum. It could indeed be that applications are now scrutinised more robustly, or it may just look that way.

I think you hit the nail on the head. It's just my thoughts for hanging around a couple of forums over the last couple of years.

[7by7]

On ‎12‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 9:19 AM, rasg said:

On ‎12‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 3:19 AM, theoldgit said:

 

I think it's probably because those who have had applications refused are more inclined to post the details of their refusals than those who have been successful, hopefully looking for some meaningful advice on this forum. It could indeed be that applications are now scrutinised more robustly, or it may just look that way.

I think you hit the nail on the head. It's just my thoughts for hanging around a couple of forums over the last couple of years.

There are 40,000 to 50,000 plus UK visit applications made in Thailand each year (see figures posted by Donutz earlier); and the vast majority of those applicants, whether sponsored by a British citizen or not, do not post on forums such as this. Those few who do fall into two groups:-

1. First time applicants/sponsors seeking advice on how best to prepare an application
2. People seeking advice on how to proceed following a refusal.

Those in the first group who are successful very rarely return to say so.

 

Therefore, anyone using posts in forums such as this to judge overall success/refusal rates will not have the full picture; if using those posts as a guide it is easy to make the mistake of believing a UK visit visa is almost impossible to get! 

 

Which is simply not the case. As said before, the figures show that the success rate for visit visa applications in Thailand is around 95%, and has been for the more than 15 years I have been taking an interest.

Edited July 15, 2017 by 7by7

[penco]

On 7/6/2017 at 0:01 PM, rasg said:

Two months is a bit of a stretch for a first visit visa imho knowing how much time Thais get for holidays.

 

My TGF came for 5 months on her first visit, would have been 6 months but I couldn't afford to get her a flight the day after she got her passport back.

 

Similar background i.e. she earns 10K THB working shifts in a factory in Ayutthaya, no land, no house etc etc.

 

So it's definitely do-able. 

[penco]

On 7/7/2017 at 0:14 PM, rasg said:

I'd be interested in seeing your sponsor letter. The ECO obviously saw holes in what you had to say about her employment or maybe it was just the two months that you requested.

 

With my wife's first visit visa we requested a month but she was laid off from work while she was away so she stayed 18 weeks. I explained it in her second visit visa application a few weeks later and also explained that I was financially supporting her and it went through without a hitch. The two visit visas actually overlapped by 12 days. With the four visas my wife has had since 2015 we have never had a call.

 

UK Visitor Visas - 3 applications, 2 failures and 1 visa

 

:-(

 

We're trying again in September. You've made me feel more hopeful but I'm still dubious. For my relationship, this is the last chance saloon. If she gets refused again then I'm giving up, I can't go to Thailand to live (I have family commitments in UK, a career here (for what it's worth)), so I guess our plans of marriage and living together will just remain plans.

[brewsterbudgen]

 
UK Visitor Visas - 3 applications, 2 failures and 1 visa
 
:-(
 
We're trying again in September. You've made me feel more hopeful but I'm still dubious. For my relationship, this is the last chance saloon. If she gets refused again then I'm giving up, I can't go to Thailand to live (I have family commitments in UK, a career here (for what it's worth)), so I guess our plans of marriage and living together will just remain plans.

Why not go for a Settlement visa instead?

[rasg]

14 minutes ago, penco said:

UK Visitor Visas - 3 applications, 2 failures and 1 visa

 

:-(

 

We're trying again in September. You've made me feel more hopeful but I'm still dubious. For my relationship, this is the last chance saloon. If she gets refused again then I'm giving up, I can't go to Thailand to live (I have family commitments in UK, a career here (for what it's worth)), so I guess our plans of marriage and living together will just remain plans.

Can you explain this a bit more please? Was it two failures and then successful on the third? How much time did you request when she was granted the visa?

 

When my, then GF, returned to Thailand in the middle of February she went back armed with a settlement visa application and her English Language test, (she took it at Trinity in Hammersmith), took her TB test the next day, submitted it the following day and stayed with her cousin and his wife until it came through. She was back in the UK just over two weeks after she left.

 

Not possible as quickly now of course, as Settlement visas are sent to Sheffield and seem to be taking two months.

Edited July 17, 2017 by rasg
Addition

[perthperson]

59 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Why not go for a Settlement visa instead?

The requirements are much more stringent ? 

[bobrussell]

The requirements are not really much more stringent, they are just significantly different and income requirements need to be met.

Level of evidence is arguably easier to achieve than a visit visa as there is no expectation for the applicant to return.

Two very different visa types!

[perthperson]

Just now, bobrussell said:

The requirements are not really much more stringent, they are just significantly different and income requirements need to be met.

Level of evidence is arguably easier to achieve than a visit visa as there is no expectation for the applicant to return.

Two very different visa types!

lol  -- Just meet the income/savings requirements first --- many seem to stumble at that point. 

[rasg]

I found the Settlement visa much easier to get as 90% of the work had already been done with the two visit visas that came first and of course no reason to return.

 

My complication was that I am self employed and needed a full st of accounts. I just paid my accountant to do it. Best £100 I ever spent.

[penco]

8 hours ago, rasg said:

Can you explain this a bit more please? Was it two failures and then successful on the third? How much time did you request when she was granted the visa?

 

When my, then GF, returned to Thailand in the middle of February she went back armed with a settlement visa application and her English Language test, (she took it at Trinity in Hammersmith), took her TB test the next day, submitted it the following day and stayed with her cousin and his wife until it came through. She was back in the UK just over two weeks after she left.

 

Not possible as quickly now of course, as Settlement visas are sent to Sheffield and seem to be taking two months.

First application failed. Lack of photographic proof.

 

Second application successful. Granted 6 months, got 5 months in UK and returned.

 

Applied again for another 6 months, refused. They didn't like my current account having less than 2K in it despite the fact that my savings account had 20K in it. She told me she had a letter from her employer saying they'd keep her job open. She'd fibbed and when they inevitably rang her employer, the employer said she'd lose her job. She also was interviewed by phone and told the visa application people she was going to UK to learn English - epic fail! They told her she can't do that on a tourist visa (not actually true unless you do more than 30 hours a month classroom time) and she needs to apply for a student visa. So basically a total mess.

 

I was annoyed about the whole thing. She had 5 months in UK and I nagged her from the start that she needed to crack on and learn English but she suffers from the Thai "loss of face" syndrome and couldn't hack trying to speak English and making inevitable mistakes. So she wasted 5 months in UK and went back without A1.

 

The employer letter thing was annoying because she'd got one previously, so she knew the score. But lied to me when I asked her before applying if she had one again. Waste of £100!

 

So we'll try again in September and fingers crossed we get it. This time I'm motivating her to make sure the application's a good one because I'm not paying for it, unlike the previous 3. This time it's her own hard earned money going down the drain if she doesn't do it right.

 

I thought that Settlement visas are for spouses? She doesn't have A1 and her English isn't good enough yet. Besides working 6 days a week on night/day shifts at a factory aren't conducive to learning English. What free time she has is spent catching up with sleep, washing clothes or on rare days off where she decides to have a public holiday instead of working overtime she'll maybe try to go to Isaan and see her family and child.

 

She herself knows that the next application is crucial so we're both motivated to make it work.

 

I find the whole situation ironic as I myself am the result of a UK man meeting a foreign woman and falling in love (I'm half Latin American). But back in the 60's immigration was far simpler.

Edited July 17, 2017 by penco
Autocorrect fail

[rasg]

2 hours ago, penco said:

First application failed. Lack of photographic proof.

 

Second application successful. Granted 6 months, got 5 months in UK and returned.

 

Applied again for another 6 months, refused. They didn't like my current account having less than 2K in it despite the fact that my savings account had 20K in it. She told me she had a letter from her employer saying they'd keep her job open. She'd fibbed and when they inevitably rang her employer, the employer said she'd lose her job. She also was interviewed by phone and told the visa application people she was going to UK to learn English - epic fail! They told her she can't do that on a tourist visa (not actually true unless you do more than 30 hours a month classroom time) and she needs to apply for a student visa. So basically a total mess.

 

I was annoyed about the whole thing. She had 5 months in UK and I nagged her from the start that she needed to crack on and learn English but she suffers from the Thai "loss of face" syndrome and couldn't hack trying to speak English and making inevitable mistakes. So she wasted 5 months in UK and went back without A1.

 

The employer letter thing was annoying because she'd got one previously, so she knew the score. But lied to me when I asked her before applying if she had one again. Waste of £100!

 

So we'll try again in September and fingers crossed we get it. This time I'm motivating her to make sure the application's a good one because I'm not paying for it, unlike the previous 3. This time it's her own hard earned money going down the drain if she doesn't do it right.

 

I thought that Settlement visas are for spouses? She doesn't have A1 and her English isn't good enough yet. Besides working 6 days a week on night/day shifts at a factory aren't conducive to learning English. What free time she has is spent catching up with sleep, washing clothes or on rare days off where she decides to have a public holiday instead of working overtime she'll maybe try to go to Isaan and see her family and child.

 

She herself knows that the next application is crucial so we're both motivated to make it work.

 

I find the whole situation ironic as I myself am the result of a UK man meeting a foreign woman and falling in love (I'm half Latin American). But back in the 60's immigration was far simpler.

So the second application was successful. How long was requested in the application? If it was less than five months, did you explain the extra time in the third application or was part of the refusal due to the longer stay?

 

If you are not both singing from the same hymn sheet a new application is doomed to failure.

 

A letter from her boss is very important.

 

How will she get up to A1 unless she is learning? It's not a hard test but she does need to have a basic understanding of English and it does take time. My wife 's English has improved dramatically since we both met but she has been forced to learn as she has been here for over two years with a couple of very short gaps. She's been immersed in it but she loves to learn. Just as well as she needs A2 before her next visa as the government changed the goalposts.

 

You have a lot of ground to makeup with UKVI with your next application, I think.

 

A settlement visa is to get married. My wife and I went the fiancée visa route. It lasts for six months and you have to get married in that time. We were married in the UK. The settlement visa lasts for 33 months if you get married in Thailand.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by rasg

[7by7]

10 hours ago, penco said:

She told me she had a letter from her employer saying they'd keep her job open. She'd fibbed and when they inevitably rang her employer, the employer said she'd lose her job.

Lying in any visa application is guaranteed to result in a refusal if the lie is discovered; which, as your girlfriend discovered, it usually is.

 

It can also have serious consequences in any future applications. She's lied to them once, why should they believe her next time?

 

10 hours ago, penco said:

She also was interviewed by phone and told the visa application people she was going to UK to learn English - epic fail! They told her she can't do that on a tourist visa (not actually true unless you do more than 30 hours a month classroom time) and she needs to apply for a student visa.

You are correct that a standard visitor can study in the UK for up to 30 days during their visit; provided this study is not one of the main reasons for their visit.

 

Obviously, telling the visa section that she was going to the UK to learn English tells them that study is the main reason for her visit!

 

See Permitted Study.

 

[7by7]

19 hours ago, penco said:

If she gets refused again then I'm giving up, I can't go to Thailand to live (I have family commitments in UK, a career here (for what it's worth)), so I guess our plans of marriage and living together will just remain plans.

I cannot understand this comment.

 

As said before

19 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Why not go for a Settlement visa instead?

 

If you really love each other, really want to live together, then this is the correct route for you. See Family visas: apply to live in the UK

 

OK, as perthperson says, you have to meet the financial requirement; but you say you have a career, one good enough not to give up; so do you?

 

The previous lie in a visit application should not effect a settlement application; see Immigration Rules part 9: grounds for refusal

Quote

A320. Paragraphs 320 (except subparagraph (3), (10) and (11)) and 322 do not apply to an application for entry clearance, leave to enter or leave to remain as a Family Member under Appendix FM,

 

[penco]

11 hours ago, rasg said:

So the second application was successful. How long was requested in the application? If it was less than five months, did you explain the extra time in the third application or was part of the refusal due to the longer stay?

 

If you are not both singing from the same hymn sheet a new application is doomed to failure.

 

A letter from her boss is very important.

 

How will she get up to A1 unless she is learning? It's not a hard test but she does need to have a basic understanding of English and it does take time. My wife 's English has improved dramatically since we both met but she has been forced to learn as she has been here for over two years with a couple of very short gaps. She's been immersed in it but she loves to learn. Just as well as she needs A2 before her next visa as the government changed the goalposts.

 

You have a lot of ground to makeup with UKVI with your next application, I think.

 

A settlement visa is to get married. My wife and I went the fiancée visa route. It lasts for six months and you have to get married in that time. We were married in the UK. The settlement visa lasts for 33 months if you get married in Thailand.

 

 

I was completely honest with all our applications (obviously she applies but I actually fill in most of the details). So we asked for 6 months and got 6 months but it's valid immediately so you always lose a few days. Getting a direct flight to UK with zero notice would have been prohibitively expensive hence 5 months.

Even so she was detained at LHR for 2 hours (in a locked room) while they allegedly rang me (my mobile didn't ring once whilst I was waiting for her in Arrivals). They took her passport away with them. Fortunately thanks to the good info I'd read her she followed my advice and had all her documentation in her hand luggage and showed it to them but they still detained her.

 

I can't understand why she said to me she had the letter when she didn't. I think it was a case of miscommunication (easily done) or basically her placating me with the intention of getting it done later "yes, yes honey, of course I've got one" [must remember to get that letter sorted].

He English isn't too bad actually and we've run through the various YouTube A1 videos and I reckon she can do with a few months of being in UK and practising here (plus some private tuition/less than 30 days course), instead of her making friends with Thai girls here and speaking Thai all the time... <sigh>

I'm obviously missing a trick here because I thought a fiancée visa was only available if you could demonstrate you'd been in a relationship for 2 years in Thailand? I sincerely apologise if I've got this wrong. It's the reason we've been going for A1 then get married in Thailand and apply for a Settlement Visa then.

[penco]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Lying in any visa application is guaranteed to result in a refusal if the lie is discovered; which, as your girlfriend discovered, it usually is.

 

It can also have serious consequences in any future applications. She's lied to them once, why should they believe her next time?

 

You are correct that a standard visitor can study in the UK for up to 30 days during their visit; provided this study is not one of the main reasons for their visit.

 

Obviously, telling the visa section that she was going to the UK to learn English tells them that study is the main reason for her visit!

 

See Permitted Study.

 

It wasn't quite like that. They asked what will she do in UK, she said stay with her boyfriend, do some sight-seeing, spend time with my BF's family, visit my own family in UK (her sister-in-law is my best friend's wife and they are very close).

Visa people then said "Yes but what else are you going to do?"

 

So she replied honestly and said that she would also learn English because we want to get married and she needs A1. They said how? She said my BF will teach me and I will have lessons at a local school.

 

When she was here last time we went to local tertiary college where they did ESOL classes and she was assessed but the tutor said it would be very expensive as we'd have to pay for a year and we'd only get 3 months as she was returning to Thailand in January. Hence she said to the Visa people "go to a local school"

So that screwed that up.

[penco]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

I cannot understand this comment.

As I understand it (my understanding maybe faulty), my only recourse to get married is for her to get sufficient English to get A1, that's not happening in Thailand, she's a factory girl earning a pittance and has no free time. So getting married in Thailand is pointless with out A1.

 

I thought getting a Fiancée Visa requires living together in Thailand for 2 years?

 

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

As said before

 

If you really love each other, really want to live together, then this is the correct route for you. See Family visas: apply to live in the UK

 

OK, as perthperson says, you have to meet the financial requirement; but you say you have a career, one good enough not to give up; so do you?

 

The previous lie in a visit application should not effect a settlement application; see Immigration Rules part 9: grounds for refusal

 

I'm no Bill Gates but the financial requirement isn't a problem. I'm in permanent employment with a good employer and I'm a homeowner (i.e. a mortgage slave).

She DID NOT lie on the application form.

 

She told them where she worked, she didn't tell them she had a letter indicating they would hold her job open, she told me that.

When they rang her employer, the person they spoke to had no idea my TGF was planning to go to UK for 6 months, so the inevitable happened.

Previously she'd got a BS letter saying they'd hold her job for her (no Thai employer is going to do this in reality, it was merely for the Visa Application people - jobs in factories in Ayutthaya or Pathum Thani aren't difficult to find) and they didn't contact her employer, though if they had, the employer would have said "yes we're aware she wants to visit her BF in UK and it's fine".

If I recall correctly rasg's Mrs unfortunately (i.e. unplanned) lost her job whilst she was in UK and the Visa people were fine with that. Apologies rasg if I'm getting this wrong.

The first application also failed because she was deemed to have insufficient reason to return which was because at the time she was helping a child minder and got free room and board as her salary, she'd walked out of a job at a high tech Japanese company's factory in Ayutthaya to be with me. The second application was made after she'd been working in a car parts factory for 6 months - to satisfy the "in gainful employment - reason to return".

Anyway I apologise if my understanding of UK immigration requirements are incorrect and I welcome any other solutions to my problem that don't involve me going to Thailand to live for a specified amount of time or giving my TGF a wage and paying for English classes in Thailand so she can get A1. I don't have the financial wherewithal for the latter or the freedom to do the former.

 

Finger crossed we can swing another 5 months in UK so she can get her English up to scratch and then it's get married at an Amphur near her family so her Dad and daughter can be there too, then Settlement Visa and so on.

[brewsterbudgen]

I'm no Bill Gates but the financial requirement isn't a problem. I'm in permanent employment with a good employer and I'm a homeowner (i.e. a mortgage slave).

She DID NOT lie on the application form.
 
She told them where she worked, she didn't tell them she had a letter indicating they would hold her job open, she told me that.

When they rang her employer, the person they spoke to had no idea my TGF was planning to go to UK for 6 months, so the inevitable happened.

Previously she'd got a BS letter saying they'd hold her job for her (no Thai employer is going to do this in reality, it was merely for the Visa Application people - jobs in factories in Ayutthaya or Pathum Thani aren't difficult to find) and they didn't contact her employer, though if they had, the employer would have said "yes we're aware she wants to visit her BF in UK and it's fine".

If I recall correctly rasg's Mrs unfortunately (i.e. unplanned) lost her job whilst she was in UK and the Visa people were fine with that. Apologies rasg if I'm getting this wrong.

The first application also failed because she was deemed to have insufficient reason to return which was because at the time she was helping a child minder and got free room and board as her salary, she'd walked out of a job at a high tech Japanese company's factory in Ayutthaya to be with me. The second application was made after she'd been working in a car parts factory for 6 months - to satisfy the "in gainful employment - reason to return".

Anyway I apologise if my understanding of UK immigration requirements are incorrect and I welcome any other solutions to my problem that don't involve me going to Thailand to live for a specified amount of time or giving my TGF a wage and paying for English classes in Thailand so she can get A1. I don't have the financial wherewithal for the latter or the freedom to do the former.
 
Finger crossed we can swing another 5 months in UK so she can get her English up to scratch and then it's get married at an Amphur near her family so her Dad and daughter can be there too, then Settlement Visa and so on.

The A1 IELTS Life Skills test (which is what she would have to take if she does the test in Thailand) is pretty easy. It only lasts about 18 minutes and consist of general questions, 3 listening questions and a short chat with the other candidate. It is more to see if she can communicate with people than a test of her English, which only needs to be at a very basic level.

[cliveshep]

I don't know how much harder it has become to get a "fiancee" visa since I and my now wife did hers in 2012 but to get her through the English test, speaking and listening I believe it was designated, I splashed out and bought her a notebook computer (she chose it) with web cam and wifi and Thai and English.

 

She lived with her sisters so otherwise no privacy and I also bought her a  mobile broadband dongle, she called it an "air card" so she could go in her room and talk privately.

 

We both signed up to Skype and to g-mail because of the instant messaging element. (Also in Skype).

 

We spent months chatting on Skype, and g-mail messages, the joy of a laptop vs a cellphone being multiple windows at once, so g-mail with the message bit "popped out" and main screen minimised, google translate - two windows so a translation could be translated back to verify it, and Skype all at once mean anything not understood could instantly be referred to google translate and put on  google messenger or Skype message facility.

 

The benefit of this was we could chat face to face, she could practice speaking and listening on a daily basis although the pair of us kept some pretty odd hours as I was "boss" at work I could chat her during the daytime - her evening.

 

I recommend this form of courtship if you have to be apart for a while because it is both audio and visual and it really does help build confidence and ability in English skills. As a result my wife (fiancee at the time) sailed through the tests. For the UK fiancee visa I got fed up with an expensive "Agent" who didn't even use the correct form, and did it myself. It is tedious, the form is like a book and the cost prohibitive as it only gives you 6 months when granted.

 

Have you considered getting married in Thailand? You get 2 years for the same amount of money, it was £800 odd either way. I mean if you are serious about each other that might well be the way to go.

[7by7]

3 hours ago, penco said:

I thought getting a Fiancée Visa requires living together in Thailand for 2 years?

No, that is for unmarried partners; i.e. a couple who have been living together and have no intention of marrying.

 

A Fiance visa is for an engaged couple who intend to marry in the UK within 6 months of the visa being issued; After the marriage the foreign spouse applies for further leave to remain.

 

See the pinned topic UK settlement visa basics for more details. It's a little out of date in some areas, but not this one.

 

3 hours ago, penco said:

She DID NOT lie on the application form.

 

She told them where she worked, she didn't tell them she had a letter indicating they would hold her job open, she told me that.

When they rang her employer, the person they spoke to had no idea my TGF was planning to go to UK for 6 months, so the inevitable happened.

OK, she lied to you but not in her application. But really silly not to have agreed the leave of absence with her employer and obtaining said letter!

 

3 hours ago, penco said:

Anyway I apologise if my understanding of UK immigration requirements are incorrect and I welcome any other solutions to my problem that don't involve me going to Thailand to live for a specified amount of time or giving my TGF a wage and paying for English classes in Thailand so she can get A1. I don't have the financial wherewithal for the latter or the freedom to do the former.

If it is your intention to live together in the UK; then settlement is the answer; unless you are prepared to live with her in Thailand for two years then either as your fiance or your spouse.

 

I'd recommend spouse, as it's the cheaper option. Although it will necessitate you travelling to Thailand to marry her first.

 

Fiance or spouse, she will need to pass A1 in English speaking and listening with a UKVI approved provider (the ones in Thailand are on page 14; unfortunately they're all in Bangkok). But, as Brewsterbudgen says, A1 is very basic; often called breakthrough or beginner. The requirements being:-

• Can understand and use familiar everyday expressions and very basic phrases aimed at the satisfaction of needs of a concrete type.
• Can introduce themselves and others and can ask and answer questions about personal details such as where he/she lives, people they know and things they have.
• Can interact in a simple way provided the other person talks slowly and clearly and is prepared to help.

If she can hold a conversation with you in English she should pass easily.

 

It's your future, it's your decision. But take my advice; don't marry her in a rush simply to get her a visa. Only marry her if you love each other and want to spend the rest of your lives together.

[rasg]

5 hours ago, penco said:

I'm obviously missing a trick here because I thought a fiancée visa was only available if you could demonstrate you'd been in a relationship for 2 years in Thailand? I sincerely apologise if I've got this wrong. It's the reason we've been going for A1 then get married in Thailand and apply for a Settlement Visa then.

You don't need to apologise. The Fiancée visa is a settlement visa and you can apply for it at any time. I explained it poorly. Lasts six months with all of the other criteria needed. TB test, language test, £18,600 financial requirement etc etc. But, no reason to return required. No job for your GF to worry about. You get married and just before it runs out you apply for FLR (Further leave to remain) from within the UK that lasts for 30 months.  Then another FLR and 30 months later, Indefinite Leave to Remain. Those three visas add up to five and a half years and you can apply for ILR after five years. A2 language test now needed for the second FLR. B1 for ILR and also the Life in the UK test.

The settlement visa lasts for 33 months if you get married in Thailand so the second FLR is not needed. Quite a big saving in the cost and much, much cheaper to get married in Thailand. Especially if you only do the legal bit at the amphur.

 

No NHS surcharge needed for the Fiancée visa. £200 per annum is the cost of the NHS surcharge. Paid in advance, of course. The FLR NHS sucharge is £500. NHS surcharge for the Settlement visa if you get married in Thailand is £600.

Edited July 18, 2017 by rasg

[rasg]

The OP didn't answer if his GF requested five months for the successful visit visa where she actually stayed for five months. If she now requests another five or six months for another visit visa when she has a job to return to I don't see any way that it will be granted.

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

The words 'massage' , 'Pattaya' , her low salary and the fact you have only known her two years will set alarm bells ringing in the ECO's mind. I once met the head of the Uk Visa section at a party and raised the situation with him. He said to be honest we save a lot of the guys from themselves but if it was up to him on a personal level he would let most though as they 'never cause any problems in the UK'.  I hate to recommend dishonesty but a less  "steroetypical application" might have had more chance of success. In their minds they have to entertain the very real possibility once over she will do a runner and enter the murky world of illegals.

[penco]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

No, that is for unmarried partners; i.e. a couple who have been living together and have no intention of marrying.

 

A Fiance visa is for an engaged couple who intend to marry in the UK within 6 months of the visa being issued; After the marriage the foreign spouse applies for further leave to remain.

 

See the pinned topic UK settlement visa basics for more details. It's a little out of date in some areas, but not this one.

 

OK, she lied to you but not in her application. But really silly not to have agreed the leave of absence with her employer and obtaining said letter!

 

If it is your intention to live together in the UK; then settlement is the answer; unless you are prepared to live with her in Thailand for two years then either as your fiance or your spouse.

 

I'd recommend spouse, as it's the cheaper option. Although it will necessitate you travelling to Thailand to marry her first.

 

Fiance or spouse, she will need to pass A1 in English speaking and listening with a UKVI approved provider (the ones in Thailand are on page 14; unfortunately they're all in Bangkok). But, as Brewsterbudgen says, A1 is very basic; often called breakthrough or beginner. The requirements being:-

• Can understand and use familiar everyday expressions and very basic phrases aimed at the satisfaction of needs of a concrete type.
• Can introduce themselves and others and can ask and answer questions about personal details such as where he/she lives, people they know and things they have.
• Can interact in a simple way provided the other person talks slowly and clearly and is prepared to help.

If she can hold a conversation with you in English she should pass easily.

 

It's your future, it's your decision. But take my advice; don't marry her in a rush simply to get her a visa. Only marry her if you love each other and want to spend the rest of your lives together.

As ever your advice is invaluable. Your advice was instrumental in our successful second application.

 

I really appreciate it.

[penco]

5 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

The A1 IELTS Life Skills test (which is what she would have to take if she does the test in Thailand) is pretty easy. It only lasts about 18 minutes and consist of general questions, 3 listening questions and a short chat with the other candidate. It is more to see if she can communicate with people than a test of her English, which only needs to be at a very basic level.

Thanks, we watched a few YouTube videos of the test so I'm fairly familiar with the test.

 

She struggled to understand. I think she'd be better now.

[penco]

1 hour ago, rasg said:

You don't need to apologise. The Fiancée visa is a settlement visa and you can apply for it at any time. I explained it poorly. Lasts six months with all of the other criteria needed. TB test, language test, £18,600 financial requirement etc etc. But, no reason to return required. No job for your GF to worry about. You get married and just before it runs out you apply for FLR (Further leave to remain) from within the UK that lasts for 30 months.  Then another FLR and 30 months later, Indefinite Leave to Remain. Those three visas add up to five and a half years and you can apply for ILR after five years. A2 language test now needed for the second FLR. B1 for ILR and also the Life in the UK test.

The settlement visa lasts for 33 months if you get married in Thailand so the second FLR is not needed. Quite a big saving in the cost and much, much cheaper to get married in Thailand. Especially if you only do the legal bit at the amphur.

 

No NHS surcharge needed for the Fiancée visa. £200 per annum is the cost of the NHS surcharge. Paid in advance, of course. The FLR NHS sucharge is £500. NHS surcharge for the Settlement visa if you get married in Thailand is £600.

Thank you very much for your extremely informative and helpful reply. I really appreciate your help. 

[rasg]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

The words 'massage' , 'Pattaya' , her low salary and the fact you have only known her two years will set alarm bells ringing in the ECO's mind. I once met the head of the Uk Visa section at a party and raised the situation with him. He said to be honest we save a lot of the guys from themselves but if it was up to him on a personal level he would let most though as they 'never cause any problems in the UK'.  I hate to recommend dishonesty but a less  "steroetypical application" might have had more chance of success. In their minds they have to entertain the very real possibility once over she will do a runner and enter the murky world of illegals.

Very sensible recommending dishonesty in a visa application. NOT! A ten year ban from applying is likely to follow.

 

I saw those words for the very first time on a visa refusal notice just a couple of hours ago on a different forum. It is not something I would want to see for anybody and the applicant admitted in a phone call to the ECO that she had created a letter from her employer herself. It is a monumentally stupid thing to do.

.

I had known my, now, wife 14 weeks when we submitted her first visit visa back in May 2015. Alarms bell are not set ringing at all with a low salary,. Many Thai women are on a low salary. Only knowing somebody for a few months, or heaven forbid, having met in Pattaya are not necessarily negative points as long as there is a strong application. (My wife was working in the hotel restaurant where I was staying on my first trip to Thailand.)

 

24 minutes ago, penco said:

Thank you very much for your extremely informative and helpful reply. I really appreciate your help. 

But you still haven't answered my question as far as I can see.

 

Here it is again.

 

The OP didn't answer if his GF requested five months for the successful visit visa where she actually stayed for five months.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by rasg
Addition

[beautifulthailand99]

18 minutes ago, rasg said:

Very sensible recommending dishonesty in a visa application. NOT! A ten year ban from applying is likely to follow.

 

I saw those words for the very first time on a visa refusal notice just a couple of hours ago on a different forum. It is not something I would want to see for anybody and the applicant admitted in a phone call to the ECO that she had created a letter from her employer herself. It is a monumentally stupid thing to do.

.

I had known my, now, wife 14 weeks when we submitted her first visit visa back in May 2015. Alarms bell are not set ringing at all with a low salary,. Many Thai women are on a low salary. Only knowing somebody for a few months, or heaven forbid, having met in Pattaya are not necessarily negative points as long as there is a strong application. (My wife was working in the hotel restaurant where I was staying on my first trip to Thailand.)

 

But you still haven't answered my question as far as I can see.

 

Here it is again.

 

The OP didn't answer if his GF requested five months for the successful visit visa where she actually stayed for five months.

 

 

You're probably right , but it is a process and they will be looking for reasons to refuse when the applicant is of limited means. I have a niece who is very rich 14 million baht in the bank , a condo in Rachada and a house in Rangsit who can travel at will. Because they are wealthy and have every reason to return.  If you are not in that category you need to make sure you have your application word perfect with exemplary supporting documents and narrative.

[rasg]

35 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

You're probably right , but it is a process and they will be looking for reasons to refuse when the applicant is of limited means. I have a niece who is very rich 14 million baht in the bank , a condo in Rachada and a house in Rangsit who can travel at will. Because they are wealthy and have every reason to return.  If you are not in that category you need to make sure you have your application word perfect with exemplary supporting documents and narrative.

The finances of an applicant don't matter that much as long as the sponsor has the cash in the place of the applicant.
Proof that a real relationship exists is the next hurdle to overcome. And finally a good reason to return to Thailand. That's it.

 

Fulfill those requirements and a visa will be issued.

 

14 million baht is nothing in the west. The price of a one bed flat anywhere near London. Your niece will probably not be using a sponsor and will be granted a visa in her own right. Having said that she will be fulfilling similar criteria to get a visa.

[7by7]

12 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

You're probably right , but it is a process and they will be looking for reasons to refuse when the applicant is of limited means. I have a niece who is very rich 14 million baht in the bank , a condo in Rachada and a house in Rangsit who can travel at will. Because they are wealthy and have every reason to return.  If you are not in that category you need to make sure you have your application word perfect with exemplary supporting documents and narrative.

 My sister in law has no fixed job; she earns pin money working on various market stalls. She cannot prove her income nor her employment.

 

She owns no property, she lives in the house we own in Bangkok, for which we pay all the expenses.

 

She has no concrete reason to return to Thailand.

 

Yet she has had two successful visit visa applications in the last three years.

 

In each, we explained her circumstances, the reason for her visit and showed that we could afford to pay for her trip.

 

Yes, we did have exemplary supporting documents and narrative, but everything was true.

 

As has been said several times already in this topic; get caught in a lie, as most are, then not only will this application be refused, but future ones could be as well.

 

Immigration Rules part 9: grounds for refusal

Quote

Grounds on which entry clearance or leave to enter the United Kingdom is to be refused

Para 320

(7A) where false representations have been made or false documents or information have been submitted (whether or not material to the application, and whether or not to the applicant’s knowledge), or material facts have not been disclosed, in relation to the application or in order to obtain documents from the Secretary of State or a third party required in support of the application.

(7B) where the applicant has previously breached the UK’s immigration laws (and was 18 or over at the time of his most recent breach)by:

( d ) using Deception in an application for entry clearance, leave to enter or remain, or in order to obtain documents from the Secretary of State or a third party required in support of the application (whether successful or not);

unless the applicant:

(ii) used Deception in an application for entry clearance more than 10 years ago;

 

Note that the above does not apply for family settlement applications.