Typical thai incomes

[ChidlomDweller]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

I hope you will keep posting on this forum.

Sometimes I feel lonely here....

 

I don't care either way.  He's young and thinks he's got it all figured out, so his posts don't get under my skin.  I wouldn't want to repeat everything I said when I was 25 either.  I do find his posts very ageist, judgemental and lacking in empathy though, mostly one-line putdowns calling people old losers, braggards, arrogant, deriding their imagined sexlife, and so on.  That's the difference between him and some of the other guys here like you and Craig khrub.   I actually liked Craig's long post because he had an original viewpoint and put some time in articulating it.  I don't agree entirely because I think he romanticizes the genius misfit lifestyle too much, but at least it was good food for thought.  

[CharlieH]

I posted a polite warning earlier. Persist and you will be put on a posting holiday.

 

 

[Craig krup]

14 hours ago, thehelmsman said:

Sooo, to be a legendary author you should be bat shit crazy is what I get. Or at least it seems so according to some.

Not quite. It's just that the people who talk most about how much - how very much - you need to "live" generally have the same worldview as Imelda Marcos. Where she bought shoes they buy anything which signifies their (supposed) status. 

 

Many years ago my uncle (officer in the Royal Signals) gave a presentation to a British Territorial Army unit on the (then) new army radio. The unit was the Honourable Artillery Company, one of the snootiest units anywhere in the world. Their officers are basically people with six and seven figure jobs in the city. They asked when they would receive the new radios. He told them it would be a number of years. The unit went straight to the manufacturer and bought the radios - at eye watering expense - rather than wait. 

 

A number of my pals have passed SAS selection for 21 and 23 SAS; also TA units. In Leeds (apparently) you'll get your SAS beret handed to you with some cheers and not a lot of fuss. You'll buy the drinks. 

 

What would you rather do? Jump in your Bentley and "tootle down" to the Honourable Artillery Company to take up the place you bought, or take the underground into the drill hall and put on a "pilgrim's" beret with winged Excalibur on it, which you've earned? 

 

You can't buy the things that are worth having. 

[oldhippy]

2 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

I don't care either way.  He's young and thinks he's got it all figured out, so his posts don't get under my skin.  I wouldn't want to repeat everything I said when I was 25 either.  I do find his posts very ageist, judgemental and lacking in empathy though, mostly one-line putdowns calling people old losers, braggards, arrogant, deriding their imagined sexlife, and so on.  That's the difference between him and some of the other guys here like you and Craig khrub.   I actually liked Craig's long post because he had an original viewpoint and put some time in articulating it.  I don't agree entirely because I think he romanticizes the genius misfit lifestyle too much, but at least it was good food for thought.  

At my age, 66, I regularly need a good kick in my ass, just to remind me of what I said and did when I was young.

Maybe this poster can provide it.

But of course I will kick back.

Let him / her be warned.

 

[Craig krup]

9 hours ago, kannot said:

money gives you more choice

No, it gives you more options in one "domain". I'd have loved to have won the King of the Mountain's jersey in the Tour de France, as Robert Millar (now Pippa York) did. 

 

Money allows you to buy a better bike. It allows a Spartan to buy a sword. You can buy a polka dot jersey. You can buy a holiday in Sparta. Money allows some things, but once you've got some you realize what it doesn't do. 

 

My PhD supervisor has written extensively on work, luxury and the like. In one of his articles he really makes a point of distinguishing between work and drudgery. Money removes drudgery, but work - purposive activity - is (as Marx said) "life's prime want". 

 

I paid for a guy to put three spokes in a wheel a couple of weeks ago. I could (kind of) have done it, but it's just a ballache. But even that point - relief from drudgery -  is overstated, as Robert Pirsig (Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance) will tell you, and he's right. There's a weakness and deficiency in me that explains my lack of focus and my impatience. It's something I need to work on. They fact that I can (seemingly) buy my way out of it is neither here nor there. I'm genuinely worse off if I don't cultivate the small virtues, and if you don't believe that look at the utter a***holes who can and do buy their way out of every small piece of supposed drudgery. How does it profit them? Seriously. 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Craig krup

[Craig krup]

2 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

  I actually liked Craig's long post because he had an original viewpoint and put some time in articulating it.  I don't agree entirely because I think he romanticizes the genius misfit lifestyle too much, but at least it was good food for thought.  

 

I probably do. I would not speak so boldly if it was my due to be believed!! (Socrates, IIRC)

[thehelmsman]

35 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

Not quite. It's just that the people who talk most about how much - how very much - you need to "live" generally have the same worldview as Imelda Marcos. Where she bought shoes they buy anything which signifies their (supposed) status. 

 

Many years ago my uncle (officer in the Royal Signals) gave a presentation to a British Territorial Army unit on the (then) new army radio. The unit was the Honourable Artillery Company, one of the snootiest units anywhere in the world. Their officers are basically people with six and seven figure jobs in the city. They asked when they would receive the new radios. He told them it would be a number of years. The unit went straight to the manufacturer and bought the radios - at eye watering expense - rather than wait. 

 

A number of my pals have passed SAS selection for 21 and 23 SAS; also TA units. In Leeds (apparently) you'll get your SAS beret handed to you with some cheers and not a lot of fuss. You'll buy the drinks. 

 

What would you rather do? Jump in your Bentley and "tootle down" to the Honourable Artillery Company to take up the place you bought, or take the underground into the drill hall and put on a "pilgrim's" beret with winged Excalibur on it, which you've earned? 

 

You can't buy the things that are worth having. 

Sort of apples and oranges. In your case of course the Beret has to be earned, or why wear it.

 

I just relocated with family and rented a typical 1 room apartment for 3 of us. I ended up buying an old house with good location. But, money made it all possible. The apartment was livable for existence but having a house is a better existence. I sacrifice by working all over the world to provide a better life for wife and baby.

 

If I want to stop by a market and buy a few beers and snacks, I do it. Wife goes to market and buys a full spread of food, no problem. I don't feel we are extravagant by any means but we spend so much more than any average Thai family does. Just school fees are 10K bht/mo.

 

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Sort of apples and oranges. In your case of course the Beret has to be earned, or why wear it.
 
I just relocated with family and rented a typical 1 room apartment for 3 of us. I ended up buying an old house with good location. But, money made it all possible. The apartment was livable for existence but having a house is a better existence. I sacrifice by working all over the world to provide a better life for wife and baby.
 
If I want to stop by a market and buy a few beers and snacks, I do it. Wife goes to market and buys a full spread of food, no problem. I don't feel we are extravagant by any means but we spend so much more than any average Thai family does. Just school fees are 10K bht/mo.
 
 

You are comparing apples and oranges too.

I can explain to you how I achieved the same thing you have living on 10,000 baht a month. Money doesn't give you options whatsoever...your choices in life gives you options.

[Chou Anou]

10 hours ago, daphnia88 said:

age does not matter, as long as it doesn't try to stick it in some young girl who could be it's granddaughter. And age does not magtter, as long as they mind their own business and get out of mine. If I say I'm happy with 20k baht, then leave it. Not everyone gets wiser with age, it seems.... Some of you get embittered with age. Some of you age like apples instead of fine wine... You rot with age...

Okay, okay, you have established the gloriousness of your young age and vigor, and also your arrogance and inability to see that in the blink of an eye, it will one day be gone (yeah, I know, that's part of it).  

 

Congratulations, and have fun.  Do what makes you happy.  Just please, PLEASE bathe regularly as you enjoy your frugal bohemian lifestyle, and use a deodorant or antiperspirant if you're one of those people who needs it (and most of us Westerners do)...especially when you're riding on a crowding songthaew, bus, or the Skytrain.  Because THAT part of your life affects us all, not just you.  Your carefree, no-pay lovers may love your "natural" odor, but I assure you, the rest of us do not share their enthusiasm.

 

p.s. Yes, I know, I painted a large group of people with the same broad brush...but then again, you kind of opened that can of worms yourself first, now, didn't you? 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Chou Anou

[thehelmsman]

17 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

 

You are comparing apples and oranges too.

I can explain to you how I achieved the same thing you have living on 10,000 baht a month. Money doesn't give you options whatsoever...your choices in life gives you options.

 

 

Please, 10K/mo is pocket money only. I'm talking about being the provider in a family.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

13 minutes ago, thehelmsman said:

Please, 10K/mo is pocket money only. I'm talking about being the provider in a family.

 

Being a provider is your choice and yours only. Tbh, sounds like existing to me :)

 

 

[oldhippy]

my grandfather would have loved this thread

 

[kannot]

2 hours ago, Craig krup said:

No, it gives you more options in one "domain". I'd have loved to have won the King of the Mountain's jersey in the Tour de France, as Robert Millar (now Pippa York) did. 

 

Money allows you to buy a better bike. It allows a Spartan to buy a sword. You can buy a polka dot jersey. You can buy a holiday in Sparta. Money allows some things, but once you've got some you realize what it doesn't do. 

 

My PhD supervisor has written extensively on work, luxury and the like. In one of his articles he really makes a point of distinguishing between work and drudgery. Money removes drudgery, but work - purposive activity - is (as Marx said) "life's prime want". 

 

I paid for a guy to put three spokes in a wheel a couple of weeks ago. I could (kind of) have done it, but it's just a ballache. But even that point - relief from drudgery -  is overstated, as Robert Pirsig (Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance) will tell you, and he's right. There's a weakness and deficiency in me that explains my lack of focus and my impatience. It's something I need to work on. They fact that I can (seemingly) buy my way out of it is neither here nor there. I'm genuinely worse off if I don't cultivate the small virtues, and if you don't believe that look at the utter a***holes who can and do buy their way out of every small piece of supposed drudgery. How does it profit them? Seriously. 

shouldve  bought a  better trainer and  more steroids although as of  now I dont think you could have  bought better genes or less years?

[kannot]

9 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

my grandfather would have loved this thread

 

id  have paid  him to like it

[CharlieH]

Bickering removed.

[ben2talk]

11 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

 I cant define which you are, ignorant or a ****, but I suggest you inform yourself of the international definitions of a third world country. Thailand is defined as second world.

Second world countries were defined as the USSR's and/or China's allies during the Cold War.from cold-war era, they're USSR, China, Mongolia, Vietnam, Cuba, Ethiopia, South Yemen and most of eastern Europe.

 

The United States, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and most of western Europe formed the 'First World'. This was essentially NATO and America's allies.

 

Switzerland (yes, that's right), Finland, Sweden, Ireland, Brazil and much of the Americas and Africa was referred to as the 'Third World'. They didn't align with either the USSR or the US, and had no organised alliance amongst themselves.

 

Now, as you aren't an ignorant @r5ehole it's obvious that you'll be aware the term 'Third World' is also applied (extending from Africa) to mean 'poor'.  The definition is also confused by the use of 'Third World' to refer to countries regarded as repressive countries - North Korea is a prime example with it's 28 State Approved Hairstyle list. I would extend the definition to cover any country with an undeveloped government requiring Military Intervention to preserve it's democratic foundation. 

 

The definition is blurred, some of the meaning is lost. The 'cold-war' definition is of no use whatsoever today (and neither really does 'Second World').

 

Thus you'll find that I am indeed quite well enough informed to make my previous comment. If you don't associate Thailand as a 'First World' developed country like the USA or UK or Europe, then you'll lump it in with 'Third World' undeveloped countries like Myanmar, China and Zimbabwe.

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Third world!

[oldhippy]

May I add some more confusion to the discussion?

In Belgium we use the expression 4th world for some of our citizens.

It refers to people who are socially backward, with alcohol / drug problems, violent, no education, unemployed, unwilling to grab the opportunities society offers them - and it's hereditary!

I'm not suggesting anything, but......

 

[Craig krup]

6 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

May I add some more confusion to the discussion?

In Belgium we use the expression 4th world for some of our citizens.

It refers to people who are socially backward, with alcohol / drug problems, violent, no education, unemployed, unwilling to grab the opportunities society offers them - and it's hereditary!

I'm not suggesting anything, but......

 

In the UK we've got a little creep (Owen Jones) who seems to think that criticizing scum somehow involves criticizing the working class. I'm old enough to remember when working class folk were the most passionate in their criticisms of low-life. 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chavs-Demonization-Working-Owen-Jones/dp/1844678644

 

 

[oldhippy]

4 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

In the UK we've got a little creep (Owen Jones) who seems to think that criticizing scum somehow involves criticizing the working class. I'm old enough to remember when working class folk were the most passionate in their criticisms of low-life. 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chavs-Demonization-Working-Owen-Jones/dp/1844678644

 

 

Good old Karl did not expect much of the Lumpenproletariat.... but in stead of lumpen they now wear imitation designer clothes.

[Craig krup]

58 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Good old Karl did not expect much of the Lumpenproletariat.... but in stead of lumpen they now wear imitation designer clothes.

In fact he thought (or claimed to think) that after they'd been relieved of the drudgery of the 100 hour week and bad living conditions they'd be lifted to the level of an Aristotle or a Goethe. 

 

That didn't turn out to be much of a prediction, did it?!

[oldhippy]

Not an unworthy thinker, that Karl.

I particularly liked his "religion is opium for the masses" oneliner  - but we (...guess...) added: marxism is opium for the intellectuals.

[gentlemanjackdarby]

7 hours ago, Craig krup said:

No, it gives you more options in one "domain". I'd have loved to have won the King of the Mountain's jersey in the Tour de France, as Robert Millar (now Pippa York) did. 

 

A hill climber - I like that!

 

The hills separate the men from the boys and damn sure can't be bought.

[gentlemanjackdarby]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Not an unworthy thinker, that Karl.

I particularly liked his "religion is opium for the masses" oneliner  - but we (...guess...) added: marxism is opium for the intellectuals.

Real intellectuals don't believe in Marxism

[gentlemanjackdarby]

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

May I add some more confusion to the discussion?

In Belgium we use the expression 4th world for some of our citizens.

It refers to people who are socially backward, with alcohol / drug problems, violent, no education, unemployed, unwilling to grab the opportunities society offers them - and it's hereditary!

I'm not suggesting anything, but......

 

4th worlders - great term.

 

I'm going to use it at least once a day and see if I can get it to catch on in the U.S. - we've got a lot of 'em here.

[Craig krup]

15 hours ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

A hill climber - I like that!

 

The hills separate the men from the boys and damn sure can't be bought.

I'm sitting right now where Millar grew up. When he was on TV in the polka dots he could barely speak English. He sounded like a French guy speaking bad English with a cod Scots accent. When he was an amateur cyclist they used to laugh at him because he would just try.  Suicidal attacks, and they'd all work together to beat him. But as one of them said; "One day Robert went up the road and we didn't see him again". 

[Kim1950]

On 7/27/2017 at 3:16 PM, gentlemanjackdarby said:

4th worlders - great term. 

Would your 4th worlders, "them" socially backward, with alcohol / drug problems, violent, no education include people with mental health issues. Are autistic people or people with learning disabilities  your "them". Not sure about  Belgium, but this is not an enlightened view or helpful to the human condition. I suppose in your view, we could like years ago place "them" in "Nut Houses", how about lobotomies, maybe a Nazi SS solution to the 4th worlders. More like your view is below a 3rd World Country.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Kim1950

[oldhippy]

15 minutes ago, Kim1950 said:

Would your 4th worlders, "them" socially backward, with alcohol / drug problems, violent, no education include people with mental health issues. Are autistic people or people with learning disabilities  your "them". Not sure about  Belgium, but this is not an enlightened view or helpful to the human condition. I suppose in your view, we could like years ago place "them" in "Nut Houses", how about lobotomies, maybe a Nazi SS solution to the 4th worlders. More like your view is below a 3rd World Country.

Surprise.......!

While the expression is sometimes used in a derogatory way (just like gay or liberal or farang or....), it is mostly used by social workers and psychologists!

Hereditary social problems / poverty is the main issue, and they are not going to escape from it without help.

But I do understand your reaction though - actually I agree with what you mean.

 

[gentlemanjackdarby]

4 hours ago, Kim1950 said:

Would your 4th worlders, "them" socially backward, with alcohol / drug problems, violent, no education include people with mental health issues. Are autistic people or people with learning disabilities  your "them". Not sure about  Belgium, but this is not an enlightened view or helpful to the human condition. I suppose in your view, we could like years ago place "them" in "Nut Houses", how about lobotomies, maybe a Nazi SS solution to the 4th worlders. More like your view is below a 3rd World Country.

Kim 1950,

 

One trait that sure as s**t  immediately and unfailingly identifies a 4th worlder is utter contempt for and mockery of the idea and practice of RIF - Reading Is Fundamental.

 

I don't presume to speak for "oldhippy" since he's clearly literate and can do so for himself, but I certainly appreciate and expect that if a BM is going to respond to one of my posts, he at least take the time to practice RIF and give me the courtesy of actually reading what I and, by extension, previous posters really wrote before posting a diatribe based on inferences that were never, by any stretch of the imagination, even remotely implied.

 

Neither I nor "oldhippy"  wrote anything about people with mental health issues, autistic people, "enlightened" views,  Nazis, SS or otherwise, etc. or even hinted at anything remotely resembling some dark "solution".

 

[Kim1950]

1 hour ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

Kim 1950,

 

One trait that sure as s**t  immediately and unfailingly identifies a 4th worlder is utter contempt for and mockery of the idea and practice of RIF - Reading Is Fundamental.

 

I don't presume to speak for "oldhippy" since he's clearly literate and can do so for himself, but I certainly appreciate and expect that if a BM is going to respond to one of my posts, he at least take the time to practice RIF and give me the courtesy of actually reading what I and, by extension, previous posters really wrote before posting a diatribe based on inferences that were never, by any stretch of the imagination, even remotely implied.

 

Neither I nor "oldhippy"  wrote anything about people with mental health issues, autistic people, "enlightened" views,  Nazis, SS or otherwise, etc. or even hinted at anything remotely resembling some dark "solution".

 

You wrote. "4th worlders refers to people who are socially backward, with alcohol / drug problems, violent, no education, unemployed, unwilling to grab the opportunities society offers them - and it's hereditary!". I might add history is Fundamental. Maybe your depth of history is a Facebook Timeline. Your syntax without context is right from the Heinrich Luitpold Himmler Playbook. "it's hereditary"

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=YvFDBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA37&dq=himmler+cross-eyed+quote&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiniI7QjK_VAhWDOj4KHcajBMoQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=himmler cross-eyed quote&f=false

 

So you or your culture changes the term , then it was "slave like souls". If anything you suffer from ignorance. You note symptoms to problems, not the problem, nor any solution. Humanity has not evolved without hope, redemption, and the will to help each other. Labels matter. Ask any ethnic minority. So what is your solution.

 

And while we are on the topic, if anyone in a professional capacity in US used a term like "4th worlders ", they more than likely would be out of work or terminated from employment.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Kim1950