Thai National to UK tourist visa rejected

[turnipandchips]

Hi new to the forum, So Hi.

Looking for some advise really from the visa experts following my Thai GF having a tourist visa application to the UK rejected.

A little back story, Was introduced to her in Thailand by a mutual friend last christmas, Only said hello and chatted briefly before I returned to the UK, I then started chatting to her on Facebook in August 16, before visiting her in Thailand in Sept 16...Then a second trip to see her Christmas 16.

I covered all this in the covering letter to the visa application

We applied for a tourist visa with a view to her visiting me in the UK this summer for 2 months...Did it all properly...Photos together, correspondence, proof of my sufficient funds , letter from her boss etc.

They have given two reasons for the rejection.

1. During the Mrs telephone interview, the interviewee came to the understanding that we got together in August (The Mrs is convinced this is when she told them we started talking) which obviously didn't tally with my entry stamps so they see it as strange that she cant remember the date we got together.

2. As we said she was visiting me for 2 months, they do not believe she is valuable to her boss (Works as a receptionist) to give her 2 months off, so are of the believe she has no reason to return to Thailand...She has worked for her boss for 11 years.

She has no children, no stamps in her passport, but did show proof of ownership of a small piece of land....for the record I am 42 and she is 37.

 

So a little bit of a loss what we can do next...Thinking maybe I go visit her again in August, and try again for a visa through an agency this time maybe afterwards, the mrs is scared to death that if she gets rejected twice it will never happen. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

[perthperson]

7 minutes ago, turnipandchips said:

During the Mrs

Mrs is usually a title conferred on a married lady. Is the lady you refer to your wife or G/F? 

 

Perhaps not surprising the ECO refused the application if he/she was similarly confused by what the application stated compared to what your wife/girlfriend said ...

Edited July 16, 2017 by perthperson
correction of typo

[turnipandchips]

8 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Mrs is usually a title conferred on a married lady. Is the lady you refer to your wife or G/F? 

 

Perhaps not surprising the ECO refused the application if he/she was similarly confused by what the application stated compared to what your wife/girlfriend said ...

Thai GF says that on the first sentence. thanks for your input.

[perthperson]

Just now, turnipandchips said:

Thai GF says that on the first sentence. thanks for your input.

Your words........

 

1. "During the Mrs telephone interview, ............."

2,  "The Mrs is convinced this .............. " 

3.  "the mrs is scared to death that............"

 

No further comment. 

[turnipandchips]

1 minute ago, perthperson said:

Your words........

 

1. "During the Mrs telephone interview, ............."

2,  "The Mrs is convinced this .............. " 

3.  "the mrs is scared to death that............"

 

No further comment. 

Great.

[rhodie]

25 minutes ago, turnipandchips said:

Great.

Hopefully someone will be along shortly that actually has some advice to give! Some ppl just look to wind OP's up. Has probably never heard the term "figure of speech ".

Probably have not known her long enough so they were looking for any excuse. And if they want to, they will find something.

Good luck.

[turnipandchips]

2 minutes ago, rhodie said:

Hopefully someone will be along shortly that actually has some advice to give! Some ppl just look to wind OP's up. Has probably never heard the term "figure of speech ".

Probably have not known her long enough so they were looking for any excuse. And if they want to, they will find something.

Good luck.

Thanks Rhodie, you've restored my faith in the Thaivisa community, when that reply came in first I was thinking what a pleasant bunch they are on here...and thanks for the comment on the visa you are probably correct, they had her on the phone for an hour and half.

[rhodie]

5 minutes ago, turnipandchips said:

Thanks Rhodie, you've restored my faith in the Thaivisa community, when that reply came in first I was thinking what a pleasant bunch they are on here...and thanks for the comment on the visa you are probably correct, they had her on the phone for an hour and half.

As I say, one of the BM's who know a lot more will be along shortly to help. Sunday evenings may be a bit slow. 

[Jip99]

The rejection letter will confirm the areas that need to be addressed next time.

 

on the 'face of it' you should be able to evidence that it is a genuine relationship. Presumably, the financial evidence was satisfactory.  The employers letter and land ownership should have been sufficient to meet the 'reasons to return' criteria.

 

You should be OK with your plan for another application. IF you present it properly and cover the reasons for refusal. Only you can decide whether you need professional assistance.

[stubuzz]

Spending some more time in Thailand with your GF will add more weight to your application.

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, stubuzz said:

Spending some more time in Thailand with your GF will add more weight to your application.

 

 

Unnecessry if if the genuineness of the relationship has been accepted. 

 

However, the intended visit this year will provide further evidence of the ongoing subsisting relationship.

 

[naboo]

3 hours ago, turnipandchips said:

...they had her on the phone for an hour and half.

Who is "they"? My wife has had two six month visitor visas and I helped someone else get one as well, never had a phonecall.

[perthperson]

3 hours ago, turnipandchips said:

they had her on the phone for an hour and half.

That alleged one and a half hour conversation would have been recorded.  

 

A transcript can be provided in case of dispute. 

[rasg]

5 hours ago, turnipandchips said:

Looking for some advise really from the visa experts following my Thai GF having a tourist visa application to the UK rejected.

A little back story, Was introduced to her in Thailand by a mutual friend last christmas, Only said hello and chatted briefly before I returned to the UK, I then started chatting to her on Facebook in August 16, before visiting her in Thailand in Sept 16...Then a second trip to see her Christmas 16.

I covered all this in the covering letter to the visa application

We applied for a tourist visa with a view to her visiting me in the UK this summer for 2 months...Did it all properly...Photos together, correspondence, proof of my sufficient funds , letter from her boss etc.

They have given two reasons for the rejection.

1. During the Mrs telephone interview, the interviewee came to the understanding that we got together in August (The Mrs is convinced this is when she told them we started talking) which obviously didn't tally with my entry stamps so they see it as strange that she cant remember the date we got together.

2. As we said she was visiting me for 2 months, they do not believe she is valuable to her boss (Works as a receptionist) to give her 2 months off, so are of the believe she has no reason to return to Thailand...She has worked for her boss for 11 years.

She has no children, no stamps in her passport, but did show proof of ownership of a small piece of land....for the record I am 42 and she is 37.

 

So a little bit of a loss what we can do next...Thinking maybe I go visit her again in August, and try again for a visa through an agency this time maybe afterwards, the mrs is scared to death that if she gets rejected twice it will never happen. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Reapply again requesting a month. You need to address the issues from the refusal and make sure that your GF has the same info and answers the questions correctly by confirming what you have put in your sponsor letter.

 

Two months is a bit ambitious for a first visit visa imho. If you request a month there is no reason why she can't stay for two but you will need to explain why she stayed longer in the next visa application.

 

If  you go that route it is important that your GF knows only to mention a one month stay. A 90 minute phone call is a long time to be tripped up...

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, naboo said:

Who is "they"? My wife has had two six month visitor visas and I helped someone else get one as well, never had a phonecall.

 

 

Phone calls from an ECO can happen at anytime. I am aware of 4 applicants who have had 'phone interviews'.

[turnipandchips]

Thanks for all your comments much appreciated. A friend of hers received a 1 hour phone call and was accepted for a visa.

 

[Jip99]

You mentioned that you submitted photos of the two of you together; my understanding was that VfS did not accept any photos with the application.

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/549692/Visitor_Supporting_Documents_Guide_-_English_version.pdf

 

[theoldgit]

Regarding the photos, you're right Jip99 in as far as the UKVI specifically advise not to send photographs to support an application, I suspect some people don't actually read the guidelines.

 

I suppose that if an applicant submits photos then VFS staff are obliged to forward them to the decision makers, who will then probably ignore them.

[darren1971]

My Thai gf is awaiting an answer to her visa application too, she was also quizzed over the phone about dates of our relationship and got them all wrong, I'm expecting a refusal also but will just address the reasons and apply again.... Don't give up and it appears you put together a fairly solid application anyway so don't waste money on an agent unless you really feel you want to. One thing I have learned over 4 tourist visa applications now is that is sometimes better not to include specific details on certain subjects unless you really have too...I put in my supporting letter that I have one daughter from a previous relationship and included her name, my thai gf was quizzed on this and really there was no need for me to include her name. The more opportunities they have to trip up your gf on the phone the worse in my opinion.

[turnipandchips]

4 hours ago, Jip99 said:

You mentioned that you submitted photos of the two of you together; my understanding was that VfS did not accept any photos with the application.

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/549692/Visitor_Supporting_Documents_Guide_-_English_version.pdf

 

Appreciate that, I read that the more supporting evidence of a real relationship the better. I have read of people sending copies of deeds to there house and all sorts.

 

[turnipandchips]

1 hour ago, darren1971 said:

My Thai gf is awaiting an answer to her visa application too, she was also quizzed over the phone about dates of our relationship and got them all wrong, I'm expecting a refusal also but will just address the reasons and apply again.... Don't give up and it appears you put together a fairly solid application anyway so don't waste money on an agent unless you really feel you want to. One thing I have learned over 4 tourist visa applications now is that is sometimes better not to include specific details on certain subjects unless you really have too...I put in my supporting letter that I have one daughter from a previous relationship and included her name, my thai gf was quizzed on this and really there was no need for me to include her name. The more opportunities they have to trip up your gf on the phone the worse in my opinion.

Good luck Darren.

[Jip99]

Just now, turnipandchips said:

Appreciate that, I read that the more supporting evidence of a real relationship the better. I have read of people sending copies of deeds to there house and all sorts.

 

 

 

Copies of chanotes certainly, excellent evidence of reasons to return.

 

I have seen them ask for copies of title deeds where a U.K. sponsor is providing accommodation.

[darren1971]

39 minutes ago, turnipandchips said:

Good luck Darren.

Likely to be a no for the same reasons as you, my Thai gf got the dates of our meeting mixed up during the telephone interview. We will adress the rejection and apply again

[iancnx]

In my experience it is highly unusual for any Thai employee to be granted 2 months leave, and be guaranteed to have her job back on return.... And the ECO will know this.

 

Sure in some professions a sabbatical can be negotiated, but not sure if a receptionist for the average Thai employer would be considered for such.  Here lies your problem.  Had it been for 2 weeks, her returning to Thai for work might have been more convincing.

 

if she works for an international brand then unpaid leave would perhaps be possible .......

 

also in tinglish, the locals often refer to girlfriends who are in a physical relationship as his 'wife'.  Your gf will need to be sure about the English she uses the next time.  Hope this helps.

[turnipandchips]

1 minute ago, iancnx said:

In my experience it is highly unusual for any Thai employee to be granted 2 months leave, and be guaranteed to have her job back on return.... And the ECO will know this.

 

Sure in some professions a sabbatical can be negotiated, but not sure if a receptionist for the average Thai employer would be considered for such.  Here lies your problem.  Had it been for 2 weeks, her returning to Thai for work might have been more convincing.

 

if she works for an international brand then unpaid leave would perhaps be possible .......

 

also in tinglish, the locals often refer to girlfriends who are in a physical relationship as his 'wife'.  Your gf will need to be sure about the English she uses the next time.  Hope this helps.

Her boss is english and she has worked for him for 11 years (Length of employment had to be stated in the application). hence giving her the flexibility to leave unpaid for an extended period....Thinking we maybe should have spelt out the length of employment in the letter from her boss. Hindsight says we should have made it a 1 month visit instead....Its all a learning process.

[7by7]

You and she need to look carefully at every point raised in the refusal letter and adequately deal with them before she applies again. Otherwise she will simply be refused again.

 

I know that you gave a summery of the refusal reasons in your OP, but in order to best advise you it would help to know the exact wording of the refusal letter.

 

Is it possible you can post it in full here?

 

If so, remember that this is a public forum so you should first remove any names and other identifying information.

 

1 hour ago, turnipandchips said:

Appreciate that, I read that the more supporting evidence of a real relationship the better. I have read of people sending copies of deeds to there house and all sorts.

ECOs have a very limited time in which to look at, assess and decide on each application. An ex ECO once said less than 10 minutes! Providing too much unnecessary information for the ECO to sift through can easily lead to them missing something vital!

 

[turnipandchips]

The following is a copy of the letter, I had to retype from a photo.

 

I have refused your application for a visit visa because I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of paragraphs v 4.2-4 10 of appendix V immigration rules for visitors.

I have considered:

Your application, and any additional relevant information you have provided with it.

(An interview with you.  (Highlighted text.))

 

You have sought a visa to travel to the UK for 2 months to visit your boyfriend….. I recognise that he has stated that he will pay all the costs of your proposed visit. However it is the intentions of the applicant which are paramount in deciding your application.

 

On 29/06/17 you were interviewed in connection with your application, you stated during interview that you first met your boyfriend in August 2016. You later amended that statement to say that you first met him some 2 years before that. That it was in fact 2015 that you first met him. But that you first started seeing each other (as boyfriend/girlfriend) in August 2016. The endorsements in your sponsors passport indicate that he was not in Thailand in August 2016. But that he entered on 3^rd September 2016. I find it strange that you would be so unsure about an important event in your life.

 

I note that you have submitted an employment letter which indicates that you have been granted two months leave of absence from your employment as a receptionist, It would appear to me that your employer is able to dispense with your services for a period of two months. Then your continued presence in Thailand is not essential to the running of their business.

Given the above, I am not satisfied that you are genuinely seeking entry for the purposes permitted as a visitor nor am I satisfied that you intend to leave the uk at the end of the visit as required by paragraph v4.2 (a) and (c) of appendix (a) of the immigration rules.

 

Future Applications

Any future UK visa applications you make will be considered on their individual merits. However you are likely to be refused unless the circumstances of your application change.

In relation to this decision there is no right of appeal or right to administrative review.

[observer90210]

after reading ^..... us farangs rant against Thai Immigration???!!!!

 

maybe the UK immigration lady wanted some fish-n-chips money?

Edited July 17, 2017 by observer90210

[turnipandchips]

14 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

after reading ^..... us farangs rant against Thai Immigration???!!!!

 

maybe the UK immigration lady wanted some fish-n-chips money?

Do you think she and my GF maybe had an argument during the interview and she isn't telling me. haha

[bobrussell]

I am a little confused as you stated that you were introduced 'last Christmas'. It would seem it was the Christmas before.

 

I cannot see anything that should stop a further application being successful as long as it is well presented and not at odds with what your girl friend said on the phone.

 

You met briefly at Christmas but started to converse on Facebook when she told them you did. This was followed up by a visit in September. Overall not that different to the account apparently given on the phone.

 

This must be sorted in full and your girl friend must know the actual dates. Back these up with passport entry stamps etc.

 

Being vague will get you nowhere with UKVI. They need to tick boxes and for this they need clear and accurate answers.

 

If she has land in Thailand then this should be documented but not relied upon. It shows ties with Thailand but not a reason to return as such. A house, job etc paints a better picture of a settled life that she will return to.

 

I don't see a two month break from a long held job to be impossible to get round especially if the business owner is western. The absence must be backed up by the employer. 'X is a valued and long standing member of staff (Y years) and I can spare her for this time because ....'. A bit difficult to backtrack to a month absence if he/she has already authorised a two month leave of absence. A UKVI staff member is likely to phone the employer to check!

 

These are not uncommon rejection reasons and can be worked on.

 

Nothing wrong with putting a few photos at the back of an application to be looked at or ignored. Just refer to them in the covering letter. I suspect they got so fed up with pages of photos documenting a life in full!