Open a business just for obtaining a visa.

[blorg]

10 minutes ago, Farangland said:

Somewhere I have read on tourists/exempt visa entries you are allowed to stay no more than 180 days per year.

That's an old rule, they got rid of that years ago.

[perthperson]

Just now, Farangland said:

So why have you advised me to take care? Has happened something to you or just wondering?

 

I was being kind and helpful ............ I now wish I  had not bothered. 

 

Do as you wish.

 

Bye. 

[sanemax]

14 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Why don't you get an education visa and go study part time. 

There must be something you'd like to learn. 

Those have been clamped down on as well .

[Farangland]

7 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I ve been here for seven years on tourists visas, although with the current clampdowns, that may be coming to an end

    This will be my last tourist visa, Im off somewhere else

Not because of the visa situation though, I just need a change 

Yes man, I can understand. I'm going to go to Cambodia for visa run and checking over there too. I really like here, but not nice to feel as a fugitive. Despite the visa exempt entry "abuse", I'm 100 % legal. Don't need to work, spending money that comes from my country. Tourist in an eternal holiday.

But also I think if I might be so concerned due to two guys that were detained? Thousands of them passing every day through immigration . 

Couple of guys I know that even read this forum,  told me they haven't got any issue.

So, does the forum paranoid me a bit? :)

[Farangland]

14 minutes ago, blorg said:

That's an old rule, they got rid of that years ago.

What will this mean? How many entries per year can you make? How long would you be able to stay? 

[speedtripler]

2 hours ago, Henderson said:

No, I don't ask for ways to break any laws, I am simply asking for a way to work within the framework of these laws but as they are handled and understood in real life and not on paper.

For example, to obtain a retirement visa, on paper the applicant must show 800,000 Baht in his bank account, well, we all know that many people who don't have this amount still get the visa by choosing another path to the same goal.

All I am asking is a similar solution for people like me who are less than 50, who don't want/can't pay 1mil baht cash for the Thai Elite visa and all they want is to live and spend their money in Thailand while not taking a single Baht from any Thai person.

If you can't afford a million thb in cash  you are probably not as rich as you think you are and may want to think twice about "retirement" because things are only going to get more expensive by my estimates.... 

[blorg]

1 minute ago, Farangland said:

What will this mean? How many entries per year can you make? How long would you be able to stay? 

It's not defined. Like many things here, it's up to interpretation and varies according to the specific border, day of the week and mood of the immigration officer. I'm just telling you that the "90 in 180 days" rule, which existed briefly for visa-exempt entries only, was done away with, I think around 2008-2009, a long time ago. It's not a rule any more.

@perthperson is mostly troublemaking in the manner he uses to express it but the general point is that it is possible that at some stage immigration is going to flag you for continual visa exempt entries. When or if that happens, exactly, nobody can tell you. They had a crackdown on Koreans IIRC a few years ago who were doing that, continued 90 day visa exempts. I believe you aren't subject to the "2 per year by land" quota like most Europeans or North Americans but you still may be flagged, at some stage. When/if, who knows. If you can afford to stay out a few weeks each time, do that, and I'd just keep doing what you are doing for now... if you are denied entry from Cambodia you can just stay in Cambodia, try another border or whatever.

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, Farangland said:

Yes man, I can understand. I'm going to go to Cambodia for visa run and checking over there too. I really like here, but not nice to feel as a fugitive. Despite the visa exempt entry "abuse", I'm 100 % legal. Don't need to work, spending money that comes from my country. Tourist in an eternal holiday.

But also I think if I might be so concerned due to two guys that were detained? Thousands of them passing every day through immigration . 

Couple of guys I know that even read this forum,  told me they haven't got any issue.

So, does the forum paranoid me a bit? :)

  IMO those guys who got caught were working here or intended too .

Those seem to be one offs . I dont think that its a general thing, YET, who knows what will happen in the future though .

  Im just going to go from Country to Country, maxing my visa out and then moving on

[JackThompson]

33 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Those have been clamped down on as well .

No problem studying Thai for 18 months.  Some study many languages one after the other.  Cost including visas and travel once a year for a new one is about 50K Baht, when I last added it up - and that was with the higher hours-quota now in place.  The only catch is, you may have to pay a bit more to your school for hassle-free extensions, depending on what immigration-office serves you.

Edit: Just don't fly in, and have that 20K Baht in cash to show, just in case.

Edited July 18, 2017 by JackThompson

[blorg]

16 minutes ago, sanemax said:

IMO those guys who got caught were working here or intended too .

They were suspected of working based off their clear record of living in Thailand. Whether they were or were not I am not sure was really material to the decision made by the immigration officer, I think if you had similar history it could happen to you and it wouldn't make any difference that you were not working, how are you going to prove a negative?

[seancbk]

1 hour ago, Farangland said:

Hi guys,

I'm exactly in same position. My money comes from my country and I like living here.

Maybe in the future planning to make business ( still trying to find what to do) but meanwhile, I would like not to have issues at inmigration every time  I go for visa run. 

When I need to leave Thailand ( every 3 months, due to my nationality) I go and visit neighbouring for a couple of weeks, and then I come back and have a new visa exempt entry stamp.

Why you Sanemax are so sure to say you can stay here on tourists visas? Aren't you concerned from last detentions?

Why do you use visa exempt entries?   I would definitely recommend that you use tourist visas.  

I'm in the same situation as you, I've been living here for almost 9 years.  I stay here 9 months then I leave for between 2 - 7 days depending where I go for my next Tourist visa.  Never had any problems at all.

However, I am in the process of setting up a Thai company for the new business I'm starting, unfortunately the company may not be ready in time for my next visa, so I will probably use another tourist visa entry before finally switching to a Non B visa and then a work permit.

Really as long as you have a proper tourist visa, an outbound flight booked and you are carrying the 20,000 baht (or equivalent in another major currency such as HKD, USD, EUR) then you really should have nothing to worry about.  

I would also suggest that you dress smart.  Jeans and a plain black t-shirt is enough, and wear decent shoes.  Don't turn up wearing shorts, singlets, flip flops.

[blorg]

2 minutes ago, seancbk said:

Why do you use visa exempt entries?   I would definitely recommend that you use tourist visas.  

He gets 90 days on a visa exempt which is free and available at any border, he'd only get 60 on a tourist visa and he'd have to go to a consulate to get one.

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, blorg said:

They were suspected of working based off their clear record of living in Thailand. Whether they were or were not I am not sure was really material to the decision made by the immigration officer, I think if you had similar history it could happen to you and it wouldn't make any difference that you were not working, how are you going to prove a negative?

Their immigration record may well have seen them overstaying by a few days sometimes , understudying by a few days sometimes, always doing visa runs at week-ends, , never during weekday teaching times .

   Tell-tell signs

[seancbk]

Just now, blorg said:

He gets 90 days on a visa exempt which is free and available at any border, he'd only get 60 on a tourist visa and he'd have to go to a consulate to get one.

 

Except that for a while now Immigration have made it clear there is a limit to how many back to back visa exemptions they'll accept.   They haven't said what this limit is.

Whereas immigration law says that you can stay in Thailand as many times as you like on tourist visas so long as you do not work.
 

[speedtripler]

Just now, seancbk said:

 

Except that for a while now Immigration have made it clear there is a limit to how many back to back visa exemptions they'll accept.   They haven't said what this limit is.

Whereas immigration law says that you can stay in Thailand as many times as you like on tourist visas so long as you do not work.
 

There is a limit of maximum 3 per year since last January 1st iirc

 

[sanemax]

Just now, speedtripler said:

There is a limit of maximum 3 per year since last January 1st iirc

 

Two per year at land borders and unlimited at airports

[blorg]

1 minute ago, seancbk said:

 

Except that for a while now Immigration have made it clear there is a limit to how many back to back visa exemptions they'll accept.   They haven't said what this limit is.

Whereas immigration law says that you can stay in Thailand as many times as you like on tourist visas so long as you do not work.

But consulates have a limit on how many they will give you while it seems now that having one is no guarantee.

If he is currently getting stamped back in each time, I'd keep doing what he's doing until he has a problem. Maybe avoiding borders with a "bad reputation". I don't think it makes sense for him to start applying for tourist visas if he gets 90 days on a visa exemption, until someone in immigration tells him to.

 

The rules are not the same for this for all nationalities, there is a hard "2 visa exempts by year per land border" for most Westerners for example that simply doesn't apply to people who get their visa exempts as a result of bilateral treaties... so you can't really generalise and say that visas are better for these people, they might be for you but that doesn't mean they are for him.

[perthperson]

4 minutes ago, speedtripler said:

There is a limit of maximum 3 per year since last January 1st iirc

 

Where did you glean this piece of fake news? 

Edited July 18, 2017 by perthperson
Spelling !!

[JackThompson]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Two per year at land borders and unlimited at airports

Yes on the land-border (with exception for some countries - including those where the illegal workers actually come from in droves), and theoretically unlimited at airports - but "not really" unlimited, as some have learned the hard-way.  They don't want to have a public-rule for airports which everyone could easily understand and follow, for some unknown reason.

[sanemax]

Just now, JackThompson said:

Yes on the land-border (with exception for some countries - including those where the illegal workers actually come from in droves), and theoretically unlimited at airports - but "not really" unlimited, as some have learned the hard-way.  They don't want to have a public-rule for airports which everyone could easily understand and follow, for some unknown reason.

They were not refused entry for having too many VES's

[blorg]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

They don't want to have a public-rule for airports which everyone could easily understand and follow, for some unknown reason.

It's because it gives them greater flexibility. It's frustrating for sure but I can understand why they do it this way.

[seancbk]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

I ve been here for seven years on tourists visas, although with the current clampdowns, that may be coming to an end

    This will be my last tourist visa, Im off somewhere else

Not because of the visa situation though, I just need a change 

 

2 years ago I began researching business ideas that I could set up here and that would allow me to live here permanently.   I identified a product I can manufacture and sell here, found my first seed investor and as previously mentioned am now in the process of setting up the company.   My current tourist visa expires soon but the company setup may not be complete, so it looks like I'll either have to fly somewhere and get another tourist visa or preferably get a 90 day Non Imm B on the basis that I am coming in to conclude the business setup.   

 

[Henderson]

1 hour ago, speedtripler said:

If you can't afford a million thb in cash  you are probably not as rich as you think you are and may want to think twice about "retirement" because things are only going to get more expensive by my estimates.... 

I never said I was rich and honestly, I never tried to be a rich person, I had a clear plan to have enough money to live and not to loose my freedom, ever.

I traveled the world, lived and seen places most people will never see or experience (because they need work more so that they will become rich one day...)

I bought my condo, a car and get regular monthly dividends of 80-120,000 baht/month so that allows me to live comfortably in Thailand.

From my personal experience, trying to make more money = getting more stress, loosing your sense of freedom and replacing it with fears and anxiety.

You might be richer but at what cost? for me, it's not worth it.

Sure there are people who are lucky, super smart etc. who became rich at a very early age BUT most of the people will never have such luck and will spend most of their life chasing dreams and money while not really living when they are young...

What I have is enough for me and I prefer to enjoy my youth rather than work my ass off until I'm 67 and only then start to enjoy life.

Yes, paying 1mil Baht in cash it not an easy thing for me at this point, it is doable but it's not something I would like to do and I prefer to search for other solutions instead.

 

[blorg]

@Henderson I think your best options if you don't want to buy the Elite visa are either (1) an education visa, or (2) continue as you are with the repeated tourist visas. Bear in mind with the education visa that it restricts your travel somewhat. If you want to travel frequently continuing with the tourist visas might be the better plan.

 

If you don't HAVE to be here, I think you could probably continue on the tourist visas pretty for ever if you just spend say 4 months of the year outside the country- would that be an option? Plenty of other countries to visit, you could do 4 months in, 2 months out and repeat. If you are relaxed and chill and don't NEED to be here, that might be an option? It is one I am considering myself, just spend more time outside the country if they are going to get hardcore about it. I would be surprised if it ever gets to the point you can't spend six months of the year here at least on tourist visas indefinitely.

 

I don't think the business idea is going to work out easier or cheaper than Elite unless you have a Thai friend who could use you as an actual consultant, as was suggested.

[Henderson]

Regarding the "endless" tourist visa option:

 

These are the requirements which Thai embassies in most countries will require from the applicant:

1. To have 250,000 Baht in your bank account.

2. To submit payment slips for a specific period of time (I think it's 6 months but I might be wrong)

3. Show a letter from the employer.

4. Show at least the outbound flight + booking for the first couple of days in a hotel.

 

If you apply for a visa in a western country, come with a clean passport (that doesn't have any previous Thai tourist visas) + all the above requirements, you will most likely to get a visa without any problem because you are considered a tourist based on these requirements.

 

My question is simple, assuming that your goal is to stay as much as possible in Thailand for as many years as possible, what does the government of Thailand allows you to do and still consider you as a tourist so that you CAN and WILL always get multiple entry visas regardless of how many you have in your passport already.

For example, you must not stay in Thailand over 6/8/9 months per year, must show income from abroad for over Baht XX,000/month + all the other requirements I've listed earlier.

If this list was clear, I and many other will simply follow this list in order to make sure that we KNOW in 100% that we will get the visa without a problem as we are considered TOURISTS.

Others will decide that it's not workable for them and decide to leave/try their luck BUT at least we all know where we stand.

Any one has such a list from an official source?

[speedtripler]

49 minutes ago, Henderson said:

I never said I was rich and honestly, I never tried to be a rich person, I had a clear plan to have enough money to live and not to loose my freedom, ever.

I traveled the world, lived and seen places most people will never see or experience (because they need work more so that they will become rich one day...)

I bought my condo, a car and get regular monthly dividends of 80-120,000 baht/month so that allows me to live comfortably in Thailand.

From my personal experience, trying to make more money = getting more stress, loosing your sense of freedom and replacing it with fears and anxiety.

You might be richer but at what cost? for me, it's not worth it.

Sure there are people who are lucky, super smart etc. who became rich at a very early age BUT most of the people will never have such luck and will spend most of their life chasing dreams and money while not really living when they are young...

What I have is enough for me and I prefer to enjoy my youth rather than work my ass off until I'm 67 and only then start to enjoy life.

Yes, paying 1mil Baht in cash it not an easy thing for me at this point, it is doable but it's not something I would like to do and I prefer to search for other solutions instead.

 

If you are willing to pay for it there are lots of agencys in Pattaya that can probably help you with the visa application and cash

 

I know people who didn't have 800k for the retirement visa and they were able to get the cash and the loan but if I were you I would tighten my belt enough to pay it without borrowing from anyone (Warren Buffett advice

 

I was in the same boat as you for the last decade or so  and ended up getting a marriage visa because I was tired of visa stamps but if I didn't get that I probably would have moved  somewhere else

[seancbk]

1 hour ago, speedtripler said:

If you are willing to pay for it there are lots of agencys in Pattaya that can probably help you with the visa application and cash

 

I know people who didn't have 800k for the retirement visa and they were able to get the cash and the loan but if I were you I would tighten my belt enough to pay it without borrowing from anyone (Warren Buffett advice

 

I was in the same boat as you for the last decade or so  and ended up getting a marriage visa because I was tired of visa stamps but if I didn't get that I probably would have moved  somewhere else

 

Did you go through an agent to find someone to marry?   Just joking although getting a marriage visa does of course require one to get married and not everyone will be able to do that.

 

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

6 hours ago, cracker1 said:

In Samui there are many bars closed for many months. I am told that foreigners own a lot of these bars with Thai Company structures in place. They presumably employ (on paper) the required number of Thai people and possibly pay them a small monthly salary throughout the year.

They open the business in the High Season for 2 or 3 months and either make a profit or loss that satisfy's the Tax man and the Immigration office.

Perhaps this is how a foreign Business owner can be permitted to stay a long time in Thailand ?

everyone should forget this opening a business to get a visa unless the business is very profitable. the hassle and expense makes the 5 year elite visa far far more attractive. i have had my business for 10 years and if it was just for the visa i would have been better of getting 2 of the 5 year elite visas. opening a bar for a few months would not even cover the expenses of the bar let alone the visa and work permit and accounting and taxes and social and.................

Edited July 18, 2017 by williamgeorgeallen

[lamyai3]

3 hours ago, Henderson said:

Regarding the "endless" tourist visa option:

 

These are the requirements which Thai embassies in most countries will require from the applicant:

1. To have 250,000 Baht in your bank account.

2. To submit payment slips for a specific period of time (I think it's 6 months but I might be wrong)

3. Show a letter from the employer.

4. Show at least the outbound flight + booking for the first couple of days in a hotel.

 

If you apply for a visa in a western country, come with a clean passport (that doesn't have any previous Thai tourist visas) + all the above requirements, you will most likely to get a visa without any problem because you are considered a tourist based on these requirements.

 

My question is simple, assuming that your goal is to stay as much as possible in Thailand for as many years as possible, what does the government of Thailand allows you to do and still consider you as a tourist so that you CAN and WILL always get multiple entry visas regardless of how many you have in your passport already.

For example, you must not stay in Thailand over 6/8/9 months per year, must show income from abroad for over Baht XX,000/month + all the other requirements I've listed earlier.

If this list was clear, I and many other will simply follow this list in order to make sure that we KNOW in 100% that we will get the visa without a problem as we are considered TOURISTS.

Others will decide that it's not workable for them and decide to leave/try their luck BUT at least we all know where we stand.

Any one has such a list from an official source?

Forget the multiple entry tourist visa option, this is highly inflexible and sets the bar far too high to be practical for most people. Very poorly thought through replacement for the double and triple entry visas that existed until three or four years ago and required no proof of anything.

 

Single entry visas and extensions for the time being appear to be obtainable in the normal way as long as you have the requirements. It's especially easy to get these in your home country, but also from friendly regional countries - this forum is an excellent place to get very up to date information on which places are friendly and which aren't. Make sure when you enter the country you have the various proofs required, including the 20k in cash. There is no ruling in place about 8 or 9 months here maximum per year, and any reasonable expectation of supporting income would be way less than the amount you mentioned anyway. 

 

A 20 year Elite visa doesn't make sense, given you'd be eligible for a non O/A on the basis of retirement in ten years. Two Elite visas would get you to this point, but it's more than likely you wouldn't need them.

 

As expressed through the thread, a business visa is the worst option, and could lay you open to bribery, since there's so many technicalities you could be pulled up on.

 

What you do have in your favour is a highly up to date network of information, so any changes in tourist visa procedures in particular consulates etc are known about almost right away. This forum is an excellent, very efficient resource concerning visa matters. The other thing is your income, which is far in excess of what many retirees and expats are on here. I agree your comments about quality of life, but you've got no worries at all if you're on a six figure monthly income. And ATM receipts would make it quite clear to any immigration officer that this is overseas income. 

[Lewis711]

How  old are you now? May be you would like to consider take up language course which cover you one year visa until you turn 50, around 30k per year will do the job. Another cheaper option is self defence course, do some research.